21 year old GI killed in Masonic mystery

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
About PM, this might refer to U2U, normally if you claim to be a mason, a mason will u2u you and confirm that you actually are. Being a conspiracy board, there are a lot of “cowans” trying to pass themselves off as official masons. – or maybe it’s Prime Minister, these acronyms are gooh. (Getting Out Of Hand)

LOL

PM means all of these things, but in this context it means Past Master - referring to someone who has been through the Chair of his lodge.

STYHI.

Originally posted by Trinityman
has been through the Chair of his lodge.

Does that mean that ML was the Worshipful Master of a Lodge once? Or does he have the power to pass through solid objects?

and WTFDSTYHIM?

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

Does that mean that ML was the Worshipful Master of a Lodge once? Or does he have the power to pass through solid objects?

Hehehe. I served as WM in 2002, and have served as Lodge Secretary from 2003 till the present

and WTFDSTYHIM?

Alas, I was unable to interpret this cryptic message.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
and WTFDSTYHIM?

I'll have to think about STYHI because I've already forgotten what I meant LOL. However, ironically, it's completely clear what you mean by the other letters

Ohhh. This is really bugging me now. I knew I should have written it down. It's something like So That You Have Info except that's not it.

That's what comes of making up acronyms for a joke AND having a bad short term memory.

Must be getting old

So There You Have It.

(phew)

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by African459


@ Masonic Light

You are a PM? From Where?

I'm in South Carolina, USA.

Is it your experience that hazing is generally practiced within the PHA, or is this a misrepresentation? I'd never really heard of it happening until this came up, and started researching online.

Okay I stand with a doric column this year. Now on the subject of what happen I will not go into "what really happens" behind the tyled door because, well this is the net and I am a Mason second Man first. But I do see as I put before some oddities in what is in print thus far and will be interested to learn what really took place in this matter I don't want to ass-ume one way or another right now. Same as I did not go with reporters stating that the shooting/killing of a Man happen during a "Masonic Ritual" from a Mainstream Lodge in NY and for it never had to take back my words when I found it wasn't done during our offical ritualistic work though still saddend at the lost of a fellow human. Something about vendicate his character....


Any member or brother please feel free to contact me and I will give you my number for possible contact. Be for warned with me. Just as many Prince Hall Masons I do not take the word you are a brother or fellow I will charge you prior to further communication.

SMTB

[edit on 16-3-2006 by African459]

Originally posted by African459
Okay I stand with a doric column this year.

If you don’t mind can you speak like regular people! What does this mean, you’re a Master Mason?

Now on the subject of what happen I will not go into "what really happens" behind the tyled door because, well this is the net and I am a Mason second Man first.

Nobody is asking you to reveal any secrets that you're not suppose to. As far as I can see nobody has asked you to reveal any recognition method.

I found it wasn't done during our offical ritualistic work

So what exactly is this non-official ritual and who practices this? Is it a large portion of your logde?

Just as many Prince Hall Masons I do not take the word you are a brother or fellow I will charge you prior to further communication.

Well in case you haven’t notice this is a conspiracy forum not a Masonic forum. I would really appreciate if your shared your information with the whole forum. Do PH Masons take oaths saying they will not talk to anyone?

Originally posted by African459
Now on the subject of what happen I will not go into "what really happens" behind the tyled door because, well this is the net and I am a Mason second Man first.

I agree, but I'm not talking about the time honored ritual of Masonry here, nor the secrets. I'm talking about hazing which has NO part in Masonry. In fact, hazing would make a mockery out of Masonry.

But I do see as I put before some oddities in what is in print thus far and will be interested to learn what really took place in this matter I don't want to ass-ume one way or another right now.

I agree, and stated something similar earlier.

Same as I did not go with reporters stating that the shooting/killing of a Man happen during a "Masonic Ritual" from a Mainstream Lodge in NY and for it never had to take back my words when I found it wasn't done during our offical ritualistic work though still saddend at the lost of a fellow human.

You're absolutely correct that it did not happen in Masonic ceremony. But my problem with it is that it was done by Masons, nevertheless. Simply put, and I think you'll probably agree, a real Mason should be beyond reproach. I realize that the shooting was an accident, but none of those guys should have ever placed themselves in that scenario. They acted in a chidish, juvenile, irresponsible manner, and a man and brother is dead now because of it, leaving his wife and children alone.

Any member or brother please feel free to contact me and I will give you my number for possible contact. Be for warned with me. Just as many Prince Hall Masons I do not take the word you are a brother or fellow I will charge you prior to further communication.

In this context, it doesn't really matter whether you and I are Masons or not. ATS is a public forum, and all sorts of people post here, and each has their opinion. As for PHA, don't get the wrong idea: I'm not ready to condemn the entire organization, especially before we have the facts. But I did visit several Masonic discussion forums, and read the words of quite a few who claim to be Prince Hall Masons, and quite a few of this did indeed stand up and say that hazing is a routine practice within PHA.

Now, it could be that all those guys were fakes. On the other hand, they could have been telling the truth. If the latter is true, it is the duty of the PHA Grand Lodges to step in and put a complete stop to it, and enforce the orthodox ritual. I say the same thing about any non-PHA Lodge.

African459, why can't you tell us if there physical beatings are or are not part of Prince Hall masonry? It wouldnt' be part of the "modes of recognition".

Originally posted by Masonic Light
I agree, but I'm not talking about the time honored ritual of Masonry here, nor the secrets.

I’m curious, I was under the impression that only recognition methods were not to be discussed with non-masons. Anything from the rituals not dealing directly with these recognition methods is fair game right? What exactly is off-limit?

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

I’m curious, I was under the impression that only recognition methods were not to be discussed with non-masons. Anything from the rituals not dealing directly with these recognition methods is fair game right? What exactly is off-limit?

You're right, the traditional modes of recognition are the secrets of Masonry. When I mentioned the "time honored ritual of Masonry", I didn't mean that we couldn't discuss it, only that there is no hazing in it.

I'll give you an example: in the orthodox ritual, the Candidate is required to kiss the Holy Bible after taking his obligation. This symbolizes both his sincerity and his awesome respect for the Divine Will.

On another Masonic forum, a gentleman claiming to be a Prince Hall Mason said that, although hazing is not practiced in his own Lodge, he recently visited another that did. During this part of the ritual, the candidate's face was slammed into the Bible, while those on the sideline heckled "Kiss it, boy, kiss it like you're on a date!". This is only one of several examples he gave that prompted him to leave the "lodge" before the ceremony was even over.

Now, quite obviously, if this story is true, something is very wrong somewhere.

Originally posted by Nygdan
African459, why can't you tell us if there physical beatings are or are not part of Prince Hall masonry? It wouldnt' be part of the "modes of recognition".

I won't discuss what goes on behind the doors because its just that behind the doors. Now what I will say again on this subject that I do not feel everything has been brought forth as of yet and that some of the points brought up in the article seem very iffy in detail. But as I was not there I cannot vouch one way or the other.

I'm sorry but unlike some I do not go into my ritual openly. For the purpose of understandment of the beauty of Freemasonry I will correct the errors of wivestails and try to give correct information on general topics, Pike, mislead ideals about Freemasonry and religion but never my rit. Sorry folx.



[edit on 17-3-2006 by African459]

For those who don’t speak Mason and are interested looks like African459 is a Senior Warden of his lodge.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

Originally posted by African459
Okay I stand with a doric column this year.

If you don’t mind can you speak like regular people! What does this mean, you’re a Master Mason?

Now on the subject of what happen I will not go into "what really happens" behind the tyled door because, well this is the net and I am a Mason second Man first.

Nobody is asking you to reveal any secrets that you're not suppose to. As far as I can see nobody has asked you to reveal any recognition method.

I found it wasn't done during our offical ritualistic work

So what exactly is this non-official ritual and who practices this? Is it a large portion of your logde?

Just as many Prince Hall Masons I do not take the word you are a brother or fellow I will charge you prior to further communication.

Well in case you haven’t notice this is a conspiracy forum not a Masonic forum. I would really appreciate if your shared your information with the whole forum. Do PH Masons take oaths saying they will not talk to anyone?

I hear you, just like I'd appreciate the winning numbers to this Saturdays Power Ball.. LOL

I guess we can't always get what we want huh.. smile*

well dismiss the others, I don't care, but can you answer this one?

So what exactly is this non-official ritual and who practices this? Is it a large portion of your logde?



[edit on 17/3/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

Originally posted by Damocles357
Reading the original article critically, something occurs to me: I thought that all PH lodges were in the US?

I wonder, then, why the poor soul was raised in Germany? He was in the military, as the story goes...so maybe he was initiated and passed in the States prior to deployment. But this isn't the way the news article will lead one to believe. It's interesting to notice that not only does the article vilify Masons, but also tries to imply a racial angle.

Uh no, there are Prince Hall GL's around the world just as Mainstream.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
well dismiss the others, I don't care, but can you answer this one?

So what exactly is this non-official ritual and who practices this? Is it a large portion of your logde?

Non-official ritualistic work would be having a door of the lodge open for all to see what goes on... Thats illegal...

Originally posted by African459

Non-official ritualistic work would be having a door of the lodge open for all to see what goes on... Thats illegal...

Actually, my Grand Lodge has authorized quite a few public rituals. Annual officer installation, Masonic funeral rites, Lodge of Sorrow, Cornerstone Laying, Dedication of Buildings, etc., are all rituals where the public is invited to attend. The only ceremonies we have that are members-only is the actual degree work.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
I’m curious, I was under the impression that only recognition methods were not to be discussed with non-masons. Anything from the rituals not dealing directly with these recognition methods is fair game right? What exactly is off-limit?

Your impression is correct, but I guess elaboration is in order.

The only things a freemason has promised not to reveal are the modes of recognition. No freemason will do so.

Everything else that takes place inside a tyled lodge is private. And like any private matter it is an individual decision how much one wishes to talk about it. By way of an analogy, you may find people who are quite willing to talk openly about their sex lives, yet you will find other people who will be quite offended if you suggest they 'spill the beans'. That, like many other activities that take place behind closed doors, are private and are nobodys business but the participants (assuming no laws are being broken etc).

You may find that different GLs give different levels of guidance as to what may or may not be discussed, but what I have outlined above is the essence of it.

Those freemasons on this board and elsewhere who have made a personal decision to discuss these private matters do so almost exclusively in a spirit of openness, as there is much misinformation about freemasonry in the public domain. I'm quite sure there are other freemasons who would regard this behavior as vulgar, and unmasonic, but there is a wide spread of opinion within masonry on such matters.

As to whether one choses to believe what is shared or not, that is entirely a matter for the individual, but I assure you one will get no closer to the Truth without actually joining. Despite what some people will tell you.