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21 year old GI killed in Masonic mystery

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posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

Originally posted by BassClef
The history of the last 6,000 years of civilization has born this out. Democracy was supposed to have been about putting power into the hands of the people but the opposite is happening with the consolidation of power into fewer and few hands.


Do you have any system in mind that would work better?

In order to create a better system, we have to investigate more deeply why previous civilisations all failed and why ours is so corrupt. Only then can we ever hope to establish something that can be built on better foundations. This is a reason why God gave us the Bible and why Jesus gave something better for us to look forward too!




posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
And Masonic Light, I love the Pascal quote. I don't get bassclef's denunciation of Washington either. If no one were to accept the mantle of responsibility of leader, we'd have anarchy. And also, correct me if I am wrong, but I am quite sure Washington was a Christian man.

Whether Washington was a "Christian" or not is for God to decide because only he can look into the hearts of men but Washington followed the light of the world and not the light of Christ because Christ rejected the offer to rule in a corrupt world system.


Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I can say, though, I have known some very good Masons, and have read of some not so good ones, big surprise, they are just like everyone else.
Generally, I view them quite favourably, and that is not due to any lack of reading conspiracy books. I have a good 25 years of that behind me, and even went to see Icke speak....

There are good people in all walks of life, including Freemasonry but the issue is not individual Freemasons so much as the institution, a distinction that I'm not the only one to have highlighted in this thread.


Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I still don't buy the Illuminati tales though, after decades of giving the subject the third degree, I've found exactly zero proof that this chimerical band of global puppet masters even exist, I have become exceedingly skeptical.

Just ask yourself who's pulling the strings of puppet Bush and what the globalisation agenda is all about.

[edit on 15-3-2006 by BassClef]

[edit on 15-3-2006 by BassClef]

[edit on 15-3-2006 by BassClef]



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23


Now about that 21 year old man, are there any news now? A statement must have been released by now.


I think it's still under investigation, but responses to the original articles can be read here.



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by BassClef
In order to create a better system, we have to investigate more deeply why previous civilisations all failed and why ours is so corrupt.


Has this never been attempted? What are historians, anthropologists, and other scholars doing?

ML, One of the posters (I’ve noticed all from Masons, non from the freemasonrywatch.com community.
said:



Since the member in question was Caucasian, and the article was sure to point out that Prince Hall Masons are mostly comprised of black men, this gave the article a racial overtone.

source


Now I don’t know if its just because I watched “Crash” last night, but this is bringing a whole new dimension to everything for me. And I tend to think that would be an issue.



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 12:55 PM
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So.... no one in this thread about a 21 year old GI dying in association with the Prince Hall Masons is actually intersted in the Prince Hall Masons, the death, the allegation of beatings, contacting the PH organization, etc, right?



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23


ML, One of the posters (I’ve noticed all from Masons, non from the freemasonrywatch.com community.
said:



Since the member in question was Caucasian, and the article was sure to point out that Prince Hall Masons are mostly comprised of black men, this gave the article a racial overtone.

source


Now I don’t know if its just because I watched “Crash” last night, but this is bringing a whole new dimension to everything for me. And I tend to think that would be an issue.


I'm not sure. Earlier in this thread, I asked if any Prince Hall Masons were around that could verify the statements of an alleged Prince Hall Mason on another forum, who posted about this same topic.

According to that gentleman, hazing is rampant within the Prince Hall Lodges. Another Prince Hall Mason said something to the effect that while hazing was not practiced in his lodge, he had visited another PH Lodge recently, and described in detail a few pretty horrible things that the candidate was subjected to.

If this is in fact the case, it would seem that hazing is a pretty standard thing with the Prince Hallers, and race may not have played a factor. This may even be common knowledge to some, and may explain why Private Wilder's parents offered to pay his initiation fees and dues for him at a mainstream Lodge in Texas, rather than him being initiated in Prince Hall.

Currently, my Grand Lodge does not recognize any Prince Hall organizations to be legitimate Masonic institutions, and I will certainly demand a full investigation into the practice of hazing if the subject of possible recognition ever comes up.

[edit on 15-3-2006 by Masonic Light]



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
Currently, my Grand Lodge does not recognize any Prince Hall organizations to be legitimate Masonic institutions, and I will certainly demand a full investigation into the practice of hazing if the subject of possible recognition ever comes up.

It's very re-assuring and good to hear someone who's alert to the problem and interested in doing something about this hazing practice, if only to send out the message that this isn't acceptable.



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 01:54 PM
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Nygdan, I’d be very interested to get an official statement too. I would think they are swamp with the likes of Alex Jones and co. trying to get dirt on this. I’m sure something else will come out soon. However the damage as already been done. (as far as lives lost and reputation tarnished) Five years from now will be answering posts from newly appointed anti-masons saying “The Satanists killed a GI during an initiation.”



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by BassClef
It's very re-assuring and good to hear someone who's alert to the problem and interested in doing something about this hazing practice, if only to send out the message that this isn't acceptable.


In my Grand Lodge, the exact opposite of hazing occurs... Degree Candidates are first in line for dinner, and it is the senior members who cook and clean up. After the Degree, if we choose to reconvene at a local tavern, the new guys aren't buying.


The conduct of that Lodge, and it's members was reprehensible, criminal, and un-Masonic. I would be quite surprised to find any Freemason who would condone such antics, regardless of whether it is a Regular Grand Lodge, Prince Hall, York or Scottish Rite Temple.

It's just not acceptable.



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by Mirthful Me
In my Grand Lodge, the exact opposite of hazing occurs... Degree Candidates are first in line for dinner, and it is the senior members who cook and clean up. After the Degree, if we choose to reconvene at a local tavern, the new guys aren't buying.

That's good to hear also!

[edit on 15-3-2006 by BassClef]



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 02:03 AM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

Originally posted by BassClef
The history of the last 6,000 years of civilization has born this out. Democracy was supposed to have been about putting power into the hands of the people but the opposite is happening with the consolidation of power into fewer and few hands.


Do you have any system in mind that would work better? Such systems are easier to criticize than to create. For those same 6000 years, many great minds have sought to develop a system where people could live at an optimal level.



I have one. Well, not really a NEW system, as much as it is a slightly altered version of our current one.

A system designed with the very core intent on getting the power to the people. The Legislative body would have to be broadened quite a bit, since in my system, every US Citizen could vote on every pertinent issue going before Congress. The Electoral College would have to be annulled in my system, because the people would decide who becomes president, based on pure numbers of votes, not on what districts the candidates visit. In this age of instant communication, there is no reason why this should be impossible.

Congress, therefore, would be you and me and every other US citizen. Non-citizens can't vote because they don't yet have a SSN. This would bring things back to the core beliefs of our founding fathers, and would put ALL of the burden on each and every one of us; it would be OUR jobs to make sure that we vote on the big issues.

The current politicians could stay up there to debate these issues for us, and pass their own votes, but their votes wouldn't be anymore important than your's or mine. The voting would have to be concluded by day's end though, so if you don't get to vote 24 hours after the vote started, you're just out of luck. You could access each bill, and probably even read a brief synopsis of it before passing a vote on it. I'm sure that it could be set up so that anyone could vote anywhere, even on your cellphone, provided you have access to the web on your phones.

The only question left is what to do about people tampering with the votes. To answer this question, we post live voting on the SS's main website, so all can see how many votes are made for or against a particular bill, and provide a voting history for each member. This way, they'll know that they got counted the way they wanted to be. This, I think, in and of itself is the most efficient means to get the power back to the people.



So, whatcha think? Ya like it? I don't think it's too far-fetched really. It's quite easy, and the infrastructure is already in place to do it. So I say, why not??? Let's give her a go. If she fails, how much worse off could we be than we are now, right?

Let the flames begin. >:-)

[edit on 16-3-2006 by TheBorg]



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 02:13 AM
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Bassclef:

I have one question for you. In this evil world, where are the people fighting for God at, if all of the Satanists are ruling the world? How can any good come out of this measly existence if we're left to Satan's devices, with no way to combat him other than spiritual denial?

The way you make it sound, it's like we live in a world where we have to take whatever Satan dishes out until Jesus Christ comes back. That bothers me, because what good does being "good" do me if I'm not willing to stand up for what I believe to be right?

What does it make me if I cower at the whims of Satan? It makes me subservient, which is something that Jesus himself said not to be. Don't give Satan an upper hand in anything. We at least should try to stop him, if for no other reason than to prove that God still doesn't like him, right?

I also disagree with you on your main point that Jesus didn't take a political office because he believed that those positions were only occupied by Satanic people. By Jesus dying in the manner he did, he made a very political statement. So to say that he wasn't a political activist would be a misnomer. I don't think that's the case, and the way you're making it out to sound, this world is already forsaken, with no real hope, save for Christ's return. I totally and categorically disagree with that line of thinking. We're a society that believes in morals and truth, or we claim to be anyway. It's time we start acting like it.

I await your reply.

Respectfully,

TheBorg

[edit on 16-3-2006 by TheBorg]



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 02:55 AM
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If Satan is a real entity, I salute him with both middle fingers and snarl, go back where you came from you thumb sucking chickenpoop pantwetting scaredycat.
I despise hazing in any form, and was totally not surprised to hear the replies to the effect that newbies are more likely to be fed and watered by their new mates. Good stuff. I do agree with JFK that secrecy is not a good thing, but imo, life is full of necessary evils.
And if Satan is reading this, the rest of my message to you can found in the movie 'Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail', spoken by the Cleese character, the French castle guard....

On a more serious note, my condolences and sympathies go to the family of the GI, and for that matter to all the families of soldiers who have died.
Peace.



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 04:33 AM
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Originally posted by TheBorg

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

Originally posted by BassClef
The history of the last 6,000 years of civilization has born this out. Democracy was supposed to have been about putting power into the hands of the people but the opposite is happening with the consolidation of power into fewer and few hands.


Do you have any system in mind that would work better? Such systems are easier to criticize than to create. For those same 6000 years, many great minds have sought to develop a system where people could live at an optimal level.



I have one. Well, not really a NEW system, as much as it is a slightly altered version of our current one.

A system designed with the very core intent on getting the power to the people. The Legislative body would have to be broadened quite a bit, since in my system, every US Citizen could vote on every pertinent issue going before Congress. The Electoral College would have to be annulled in my system, because the people would decide who becomes president, based on pure numbers of votes, not on what districts the candidates visit. In this age of instant communication, there is no reason why this should be impossible.

Congress, therefore, would be you and me and every other US citizen. Non-citizens can't vote because they don't yet have a SSN. This would bring things back to the core beliefs of our founding fathers, and would put ALL of the burden on each and every one of us; it would be OUR jobs to make sure that we vote on the big issues.

The current politicians could stay up there to debate these issues for us, and pass their own votes, but their votes wouldn't be anymore important than your's or mine. The voting would have to be concluded by day's end though, so if you don't get to vote 24 hours after the vote started, you're just out of luck. You could access each bill, and probably even read a brief synopsis of it before passing a vote on it. I'm sure that it could be set up so that anyone could vote anywhere, even on your cellphone, provided you have access to the web on your phones.

The only question left is what to do about people tampering with the votes. To answer this question, we post live voting on the SS's main website, so all can see how many votes are made for or against a particular bill, and provide a voting history for each member. This way, they'll know that they got counted the way they wanted to be. This, I think, in and of itself is the most efficient means to get the power back to the people.

So, whatcha think? Ya like it? I don't think it's too far-fetched really. It's quite easy, and the infrastructure is already in place to do it. So I say, why not??? Let's give her a go. If she fails, how much worse off could we be than we are now, right?

Let the flames begin. >:-)

The system you're proposing sounds better than the one we have at present. What's your next step in implementing this new system?



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 05:02 AM
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Originally posted by TheBorg
Bassclef:

I have one question for you. In this evil world, where are the people fighting for God at, if all of the Satanists are ruling the world? How can any good come out of this measly existence if we're left to Satan's devices, with no way to combat him other than spiritual denial?

There are many people campaigning for a better world, or at least better aspects to our world. You are helping too, by trying to think of alternative better ways in which we can be governed. We're not totally left to Satan's devices but we are in the midst of a battle and I agree with you that it's not the answer to sit back and do nothing. Evil flourishes a lot of the time because good people don't speak out to expose corruption.


Originally posted by TheBorg
The way you make it sound, it's like we live in a world where we have to take whatever Satan dishes out until Jesus Christ comes back. That bothers me, because what good does being "good" do me if I'm not willing to stand up for what I believe to be right?

I spend many hours a week trying to persuade people not to take whatever this corrupt system throws at us, so I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I'm trying to make it sound like we have to accept corruption. If that were the case, I wouldn't have approved of this thread about a 21 year old being beaten up by some of his fellow Masons, for example.

I've always seen myself as trying to champion what you're championing but just look at how this is going - we're arguing while the real criminals in the world are getting away with, for instance, starting wars based on lies and self-interests. What chance does humanity have if even ordinary good people can't understand each other? In other words, what I'm calling for is for us all to make an effort at understanding each other better.


Originally posted by TheBorg
What does it make me if I cower at the whims of Satan? It makes me subservient, which is something that Jesus himself said not to be. Don't give Satan an upper hand in anything. We at least should try to stop him, if for no other reason than to prove that God still doesn't like him, right?

I 100% agree with you, which is why I am here with you vigilantly exposing and fighting evil.

I sometimes wonder if some people are so self-absorbed in their own crusade against evil that they have difficulty recognising when some others are undertaking the same effort because it takes away some of the attention from their own effort.


Originally posted by TheBorg
I also disagree with you on your main point that Jesus didn't take a political office because he believed that those positions were only occupied by Satanic people. By Jesus dying in the manner he did, he made a very political statement. So to say that he wasn't a political activist would be a misnomer. I don't think that's the case, and the way you're making it out to sound, this world is already forsaken, with no real hope, save for Christ's return. I totally and categorically disagree with that line of thinking. We're a society that believes in morals and truth, or we claim to be anyway. It's time we start acting like it.

I don't think we're disagreeing by as much as you like to make out. You seem to be more anxious to find fault in me rather than look for positive aspects. I didn't say Jesus turned down political office because he believed every person in public life were Satanists. I do not believe all people in public life are Satanists and I've already stated that several times in this thread and yet you still attribute things to me that I don't believe. You see how difficult it is for man to get along with man, let alone rule man via government?

Jesus turned down political office for the reason he stated himself. He said, "My Kingdom is no part of this world."

I can understand why you see Jesus as a political activist and to some extent I agree with you but he was much more. He was a spiritual teacher with a message that angers anyone whose motives are selfishly orientated and herein lies the root of many of the world's problems.

There's a great deal that can be achieved to make the world better before Jesus' return. I'm trying to do my bit and I acknowledge you are trying to do yours. I hope you can at least give me some credit, as I have given you some. Only then can we work towards a better aim.

Yours sincerely,
BassClef



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 05:41 AM
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BassClef:

I guess in many ways, we do see eye to eye. There are a few things that I just seem to have a difference of opinion on, which I suppose everyone has the right to have. For example, I'm not sure that the finger is being pointed in the right direction. To be more specific, I don't know for sure who's at fault for the way things are now, aside from Satan himself. At the same time, I'm not going to sit here and point fingers at groups of people and categorically deny them any clemency simply because a small contingent of them did something wrong, as in the case of this young man's death.

Just because one supposed Masonic Lodge did something heinous doesn't mean that all of Masonry is evil. I don't really know anymore about Masons than the average joe, but I can attest to a few things from my own experiences with them. One of those things is that they sincerely try to make a bad situation better by rallying support to get change.

I just don't like generalizations about groups of people because of what someone did. That narrow-mindedness is what got us into the position in the first place. What I mean by that is that if we the people had've been paying attention, when the country started to go downhill, we could have changed it. The country's condition is no one particular group's fault, it's everyone's and no one's at the same time, if that makes any sense. It's really sad that people don't see the errant folley in the way the nation has gone downhill morally as well as politically. Oh well, I guess it'll take people like us screaming till we can't scream anymore to finally get change. I just await that day when true freedom will be experienced again.

If I came across as abrasive in my previous post, I apologize. I never meant to make you feel offended. I just thought you were saying that God wouldn't allow Jesus to take political office because he reserved that for Satan. To me, that's just not true. Plenty of "good" people are in political positions, and they DO make a difference. We just need more of them is all.




In reference to my "system", I have no idea as to how to make the changes yet. I'm in the process of looking for avenues to pursue, as it WOULD make things a lot better than they are now. Here's to hoping something good happens soon. *crosses fingers*



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 05:45 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23


Now about that 21 year old man, are there any news now? A statement must have been released by now.


I think it's still under investigation, but responses to the original articles can be read here.


Sorry for coming back so late but I will stand on this..

A) I am a Prince Hall Mason of about 15 years now.

B) Also as Prince Hall I am viewed Lawful by UGLE and have seen many ritualistics workings of both Mainstream and Prince Hall and find it hard to fully under some of the inaccuracies of all of this? But because I am a Mason I will not go into alot of detals on how iffy this sounds. Sorry.

@ Masonic Light

You are a PM? From Where?



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 08:12 AM
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Ha! I knew ATS would come through with this. African459 thanks for coming on and sharing, feel free to explain it as you see it. If you don’t like the reply you get, you’ll notice that there’s an “ignore” button under each poster’s avatar, feel free to use that. (Although, I personally advise against that.)

Since you must be smack in the middle of this unpleasant situation, I’d like to ask you if you believe that the racial implication has anything to do with the media jumping all over this?

Was there hazing involved when you were initiated?

About PM, this might refer to U2U, normally if you claim to be a mason, a mason will u2u you and confirm that you actually are. Being a conspiracy board, there are a lot of “cowans” trying to pass themselves off as official masons. – or maybe it’s Prime Minister, these acronyms are gooh. (Getting Out Of Hand)

Again thanks for coming on African459. Hopefuly you can make sense of all this.



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Good stuff. I do agree with JFK that secrecy is not a good thing, but imo, life is full of necessary evils.


So do I. But Kennedy was talking about the openness of governmental proceedings, not fraternal organizations. He himself was a Knight of Columbus, a fraternity similar in many aspects to Masonry.



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by African459


@ Masonic Light

You are a PM? From Where?


I'm in South Carolina, USA.

Is it your experience that hazing is generally practiced within the PHA, or is this a misrepresentation? I'd never really heard of it happening until this came up, and started researching online.



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