Do you think Babylon in Revelations might be the U.S. or New York City?, page 2

posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 06:12 PM

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Lighten up Bob,

My post was just speculation too.
IMO the Bible is just an interpretation of stories that were handed down before. I'm not even sure about the divine inspiration part.

msnevil

posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 06:52 PM

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I always thought the "Whore of Babylon" to Be (All) the "Human made" Worldly Church.

MrMicrophone

posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 11:15 AM

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This is cool: Do a search of Babylon, NY on google and see where it's located.
FYI: Babylon has several different faces not just one: Economic, social, political, geographical and religious; a location but also a system.

pdo3

posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 12:51 PM

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Jerusalem will become Mystery Babylon, Spiritual Egypt, and Sodom, when one claiming Davidic lineage sits in the Third Temple and proclaims his own godhood. This is the ultimate purpose of political Zionism.

Nygdan

posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:10 AM

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Originally posted by Bobular
"What city could compare with the great city?"
Again, either the USA or New York City.

Or Rome. Or Constantinople. Or London. Or Delhi. Or Baghdad. It depends on when you are talking about it. At the time of St. John, I think everyone would recognize this as being Rome.

"With such force will Babylon the great city be thrown down, and will never be found again."
Nuclear attack.

Or a sacking by the northern barbarian hordes. Or a final war with the parthians, again in the time that this document was written.

Read this and see if you can't see America being Babylon:

Please explain why its not also Rome. Or the old Persian Empire. Or the kingdom of Judea in the 1st Century. Or the British Empire. Or the Holy Roman Empire. I see nothing, not a single thing, in there that says "america and new york" in particular.

no more markets for their cargo: their cargo of gold, silver, precious stones, and pearls; fine linen, purple silk, and scarlet cloth; fragrant wood of every kind, all articles of ivory and all articles of the most expensive wood, bronze, iron, and marble; cinnamon, spice, incense, myrrh

This list of goods seems, if anything, to exclude NYC and America, since bronze, scarlet cloth, myrrh, and cinnamon aren't the quintessential goods traded there.

we see the eagle's wings coming out of the lion. Here we have a clear depiction of the United States growing out of her mother country, Great Britain

Thats not clear. It has nothign to do with growth and lots of countries are represented by eagles and lions. Likesay, Judah, represented by the lion. That makes more sense in the context than the british empire.

bobular
In the way that Babylon is referred to in Revelation it alludes to the end of man's reign on earth, as in "the end" as we know it to be

It think that its also important to keep in mind that Babylon is where the jews, in the very old days, were taken as slaves after the assyrian conquest and destruction of israel. An enourmous portion of their population was forcibly moved from israel to babylon and the surrounding region. This is the "babylonian captivity". So John was keeping with tradition in calling the big old enemy babylon. But the city of babylon at the time of john wasn't particularly important, and the region was run by the parthians. While the parthians were powerful, they weren't running the jewish world and they weren't in communication with any worldly kings that the jews would know much about, nor would the jews/christians really care all that much if some far away though powerful state fell apart. But Rome, on the other hand, fits the description nicely.

Consider reggae music too. The analogies and metaphors used almost all the time are similar. "Babylon" makes "our people suffer". "Babylon" makes the rules, we're going to be like iron lions in "Zion", we sit in captivity at the rivers of "Babylon". Its all in code too.

Do a search of Babylon, NY on google and see where it's located

Yes. And?

managerie

posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:30 AM

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Hi,

You are correct. The US is the head of the empire that is called Mystery Babylon that devours the whole world. That empire and the machinations of control are bring built right now.

Also, the king Babylon is conquering the nations round about Iraq to relive Jeremiah 25.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 talks about how God causes history to repeat and uses the previous events, nations, people as types and shadows for our reference (1 Cor 10:11).

At the end of the tribulation (fast approaching), the US will be destroyed by Nuclear weapons, pestilence, wrath of God. This is described in Jeremiah 50 & 51 and Revelation 17 & 18.

The national ID card coming is much like the census registration of Jesus times in Luke 2. This helps the governments collect information for the coming mark on the skin.

This is all going to repeat, only the cast is a much larger group. Tthe White Horse Rider (Revelation 6) and the man-child (Jesus was type of this) are the same ministry in a group of people which are part of the Body of Christ today. They will walk as Jesus walked, teaching and doing miracles as He did. Many will eventually be killed when God calls them him home when their ministry is through, but these people are totally God's and will not care much about being killed.

I know that many here who do not have th Holy Spirit to guide them will mock what I have said. They have maybe four more years maximum to laugh, maybe five, but no more than that. So laugh it up while you can, but remember what I said.

Sun Matrix

posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 08:39 PM

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Babylon is Babylon(Iraq)

Mystery Babylon is ?????? sitting on 7 hills.

Sun Matrix

posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 08:48 PM

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At the end of the tribulation (fast approaching), the US will be destroyed by Nuclear weapons, pestilence, wrath of God. This is described in Jeremiah 50 & 51 and Revelation 17 & 18.

Hi,

Try reading Jeremiah 50 and 51 and consider Babylon Iraq, just like it says.
See what that does for you.

managerie

posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Babylon is Babylon(Iraq)

Mystery Babylon is ?????? sitting on 7 hills.

Sorry, but did you really think that God would make it this obvious?
I know that author Mark Hitchcock has drawn similar, undiscerning
opinions from the letter of the scriptures. The Bible itself talks about how the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. I am recently led to believe that this is not just talking about the Mosaic law, but the entire letter of the Bible requiring the Spirit to bring the Word to life in you.

God is very clear that He has hidden meaning in the scriptures. He uses
the law of first naming, symbolism, parable to hide the deeper meanings
from those who consider themselves wise.

I know because I didn't get it either until the Holy Spirit opened the scriptures to me. I sure did not get it on my own.

Babylon sitting on seven hills is not a topography or geography lesson.
It is a symbolic statement that says that the demonic powers behind the beast kingdom of Mystery Babylon comes directly from the spirits of the previous 7 beast kingdoms (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome, etc)., The Mystery Babylon is sitting on the shoulders of those previous 7 kingdoms. It is a different parable but the same point as the dragon with 7 heads in Revelation.

Babylon is described as being seated astride the seas. Does that sound like a small barely inhabited city by one river in the desert? Hardly.

I don't mean to be rude and I'll be happy to answer any questions you earnestly pose. I am all about trying to remove confusion, here.

My answers come from hard-won searching of the Bible with God's help in answering the tough questions for the last two years. The

Sun Matrix

posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 10:15 PM
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Babylon is described as being seated astride the seas. Does that sound like a small barely inhabited city by one river in the desert? Hardly.

I don't mean to be rude and I'll be happy to answer any questions you earnestly pose. I am all about trying to remove confusion, here.

My answers come from hard-won searching of the Bible with God's help in answering the tough questions for the last two years.

I don't think that you are being rude at all, I do think you are confused however.

There is a difference between Babylon and Mystery Babylon.

Babylon is Iraq. You are very likely witnessing the fulfillment of Jeremiah 50 and 51 right now.

Please feel free to explain why this is not so.

Sun Matrix

posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 10:45 PM
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Babylon is described as being seated astride the seas. Does that sound like a small barely inhabited city by one river in the desert? Hardly.

You seem to be in quite a bit of confusion. Quit making things so hard. The Bible explains the Bible. Here is what the Bible says about the seas where Mystery Babylon sits.

Revelation 17:15 He also said to me, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute was seated, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and languages.

Again, Babylon is Iraq. Mystery Babylon ????????? sits on 7 hills.

managerie

posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Babylon is described as being seated astride the seas. Does that sound like a small barely inhabited city by one river in the desert? Hardly.

You seem to be in quite a bit of confusion. Quit making things so hard. The Bible explains the Bible. Here is what the Bible says about the seas where Mystery Babylon sits.

Revelation 17:15 He also said to me, \"The waters you saw, where the prostitute was seated, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and languages.

Again, Babylon is Iraq. Mystery Babylon ????????? sits on 7 hills.

Perhaps I am mistaken in one thing. I presumed that since the original poster was talking about Babylon in Revelation - presumed that they meant that entity in the future after 96AD (Rev 4:1) which, whether the verse refers to Babylon or Mystery Babylon, is the same entity, and that has the US at the head of it. I am correct in that - just you wait and see.
Of this, there is little doubt left.

I am not referring to Rev 17:15 as it is described as seated among the seas. I think the verse I am referring to is in Jeremiah. I have to find it again.

spamandham

posted on Feb, 18 2006 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by Bobular
Not everything is literal in the Bible, sometimes it's metaphoric, sometimes it's cryptic, and yes, sometimes it's literal. In the way that Babylon is referred to in Revelation it alludes to the end of man's reign on earth, as in "the end" as we know it to be. Since there is no current city on our globe called Babylon, I hypothesize that Babylon in Revelations is a metaphor

You are willing to accept that Babylon is a metaphor, but you assume it is a metaphor for ...another earthly city? What would be the purpose of calling some other not yet existent city Babylon? If god means "new york", why not just come out and say "new york". It's a book of prophecy right?

Babylon is a metaphor, because the entire book is symbolic. But it isn't a metaphor for a city. It's astrotheological symbolism.

I'll quote myself from a similar thread in the past:

You'll never understand Revelation if you view it as a literal prophecy of things past or future, nor if you try to literally tie it in with other books of the Bible. Revelation is a mystical writing that attempted to assign astrological significance to the events of the day.

24 represents a complete precession of the equinox. Even in ancient times, it was known that an astrological age was 2000 years (this is an approximation, but hey it's pretty close!). The 24 elders represent the 24000 years of a complete cycle (we now know it's a bit longer than that), with 1000 years being related to a "day".

The throne is heaven. But not the metaphysical heaven you may be thinking, rather, the literal heaven - the sky.

The sea of glass is the space between earth and heaven. It's translucent, yet heaven doesn't fall.

The four living creatures are the four seasons represented by;
lion = leo (summer solstice 2000 years ago)
calf = taurus (spring equinox 2000 yeras ago)
man = aquarius (winter solstice 2000 years ago)
eagle = scorpio (now known as the scorpion, but was commonly known as the eagle 2000 yeras ago) (fall equinox).
(note that the order is backwards!)

The 6 wings of each creature represent 6000 year quarters of the complete cycle.
The eyes of the 4 creatures represent all the stars in each quadrant of the zodiac.
The seven lamps are the seven nonfixed celestial objects the ancients knew of; sun, moon, mercury, venus, mars, saturn, jupiter.

So the question is, why are the 4 creatures listed in the wrong order (summer-spring-winter-fall rather than summer-fall-winter-spring)? They aren't! 2000 years ago, the winter solstice was in Aries and transitioning to Pisces (the lamb was being sacrificed and reborn as the fish). We are now entering Aquarius. The winter solstice preceeds backwards through the zodiac.

Of course, so does the summer solstice, which is why the listing starts in leo (during the passing age of Aries 2000 years ago) and goes backwards as it maps out the 24000 year cycle to follow.

Revelation plays out a battle in the heavens from a Jewish perspective, tied into the current events of the day. From this perspective, Revelation is strong evidence that the Jesus of the NT is pure myth, as it reveals his role in solar mythology in early Christianity.

Sun Matrix

posted on Feb, 18 2006 @ 12:46 AM
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The four living creatures are the four seasons represented by;

lion = leo (summer solstice 2000 years ago)
calf = taurus (spring equinox 2000 yeras ago)
man = aquarius (winter solstice 2000 years ago)
eagle = scorpio (now known as the scorpion, but was commonly known as the eagle 2000 yeras ago) (fall equinox).
(note that the order is backwards!)

So the question is, why are the 4 creatures listed in the wrong order (summer-spring-winter-fall rather than summer-fall-winter-spring)?

No, the question is, why are you making this so hard. Again, the Bible explains the Bible.
Daniel 7:16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. 17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

The beast are kings, just like the Bible says. Why make things so hard, and so wrong?

spamandham

posted on Feb, 18 2006 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix
No, the question is, why are you making this so hard. Again, the Bible explains the Bible.

The Bible is a collection of works by different authors spanning nearly 1000 years. It's up to you to prove that it is a single cohesive collection in light of that well known fact.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Daniel 7:16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. 17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

The beast are kings, just like the Bible says. Why make things so hard, and so wrong?

We were discussing Revelation, not Daniel. While I agree that Revelation builds on Daniel, it is a mystical reinterpretation of it, rather than volume II.

Sun Matrix

posted on Feb, 18 2006 @ 11:47 PM
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We were discussing Revelation, not Daniel. While I agree that Revelation builds on Daniel, it is a mystical reinterpretation of it, rather than volume II.

On page 1, Daniel 7 was being discussed.

spamandham

posted on Feb, 19 2006 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix
On page 1, Daniel 7 was being discussed.

That's fine and all, but that isn't where the thread currently is. I would think that should be obvious since the posts are explicitly referring to Revelation and not Daniel.

pdo3

posted on Feb, 19 2006 @ 02:35 PM
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The US is the head of the empire that is called Mystery Babylon that devours the whole world. That empire and the machinations of control are bring built right now.

The US is the head of the Beast, an imperialist military force which will devour the whole world.
Mystery Babylon (the Whore riding the Beast) refers to the religious system.
The religious system will be militarily enforced and based in Jerusalem.

spamandham

posted on Feb, 19 2006 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by pdo3

The US is the head of the empire that is called Mystery Babylon that devours the whole world. That empire and the machinations of control are bring built right now.

The US is the head of the Beast, an imperialist military force which will devour the whole world.
Mystery Babylon (the Whore riding the Beast) refers to the religious system.
The religious system will be militarily enforced and based in Jerusalem.

The US is the head of the beast, the US is a horn on the beast, the US is mystery Babylon, the US is the great city, the US is the false prophet, the US is the merchants of Tarshish, the US is deep fried eyeballs floating in a pool of blood.

Has it ever ocurred to the wild-eyed speculators that Revelation does not involve the US, and that's why the US is not mentioned in the book?

Nygdan

posted on Feb, 20 2006 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by pdo3
Mystery Babylon (the Whore riding the Beast) refers to the religious system.

Ishtar and the various goddess mystery cults often represented the goddess as riding on an animal. Also, ritualized temple-prostitution was an element of, if not the mystery religions of the early christian era themselves, then of the antecedent pagan religions from which they are derived.

The religious system will be militarily enforced and based in Jerusalem.

Then the Mystery Babylon religion is modern protestant-ish christainity, as that is the only religion that is even remotely capable of enforcing their religion over the globe via a miliatary and having jerusalem as its capital.
I rather doubt that that's the case, but it makes more "sense", in this context, than anything else.