Do you think Babylon in Revelations might be the U.S. or New York City?

Originally posted by Nakash
So that's the deal. Why would protestants "hate" Catholics?

Are you denying that there is a history of sectarian hatred and violence between catholics and protestants?

We live with them since the beginning of Christianity,

Er, no. Protestantism doesn't even exist until Martin Luther.

we claim to follow the same God, we just have different views of that God.

Catholics, Protestants, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Orthodox, Eastern Rite, Coptic, Gnostics, all of them beleive in Jesus Christ as saviour. They're all the same religion, just different sects of it. To say that the RCC is the 'beast' of revelation is nonsense, the RCC is a major part of christianity. John wasn't talking about the vatican, he was talking about Rome, the country, and the Roman Mysterty Cults. Its plainly obvious. The only reason anyone even suggests that its anything other than that is because the prophecy in revelation never came through. Perhaps it would make more sense to consider it a poor prophecy. Its also rather humorous to say that revelation is a sacred book, and that it clearly points out the RCC as the culprit, when the RCC and Orthodox church are the only reasons any christians today even know about or venerate the book.

, I interpret purple and scarlet as being "beautiful, rich, intoxicating". Maybe the colors are just metaphor for "very beautiful, desirable".....

or perhaps they refere to the purple and scarlet robes that are symbolic and explicitly associated with the Roman Emperor. That seems to make a heck of a lot more sense.

Everybody dreams they lived in Babylon......it is "the land of pleasure".
Hmmmmmm.......wonder who that can be?

Iraq, hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Anywhere in the Mid-East, hahahahahahahahahhahahaha
Rome, what's there? Great food, cool museums...I'm bored, let's go home.

Except that at the time that this apocalypse was written, Rome was the place to be, and Babylon was the terminology for people in a jewish context to talk about a great worldly power that was arrayed against them.

This does not mean she kills Christians at all. Read it again. She's drunk and high enjoying life.

Anyone at the time of the writting of this thing woudl recognize 'drunk with the blood of saints' to be a reference to roman persecution and execution of christians, who then become 'saints'. Roman was bathed in the blood of martyrs and saints.

[edit on 23-2-2006 by Nakash]

[edit on 24-2-2006 by Nygdan]

I haven't read evry post to this thread, but I was watching "Science of the Bible", possibly on National Geographic, but they posted a theory on the whole subject of Revelations. They hyphothesized that Revelations was not a 'prophecy', but might have just been referring to Nero's reign. To everyone of that time, Rome was considered to be the 7 mountains. The Christians of that time used the book of Revelations to warn others of the Roman Empire.

After a short introduction, the Book of Revelations contains an account of the author, who identifies himself as John, of two visions that he received on the isle of Patmos. The first vision (chs. 1:11–3:22), related by "one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle", speaking with "a great voice, as of a trumpet", are statements addressed to the seven churches of Asia. The second vision comprising the rest of the book (chs. 4–22) begins with "a door … opened in heaven" and describes the end of the world—involving the final rebellion by Satan at Armageddon, God's final defeat of Satan, and the restoration of peace to the world.

Let me ask you all a question.

Why would the last book in the Bible (the "sign-off" if you will) be about a small history lesson on the end of the Roman Empire?

That's retarded, people!!!!!

The last chapter is meant as a final warning.
• It talks about Satan (the Antichrist) and Christ second coming to earth (I don't remember Satan showing up when the Roman Empire went under).
• I sure don't remember Christ coming back at all.
• I don't remember peace being established throughout the whole world
• I don't recall the heavens opening up and raining fire down onto the earth
• I don't recall large giant fiery mountains falling from the sky and destroying a 1/3 of all mankind and life - 3 of these giants are supposed to hit us - READ THE BOOK!!!!!!!!!
• I don't recall the battle of Armegeddon
• I don't recall Christ firmly establishing his kingdom of heaven here on earth
• I haven't seen the new Jewish Temple built on the Temple Mount yet

HELLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Has anybody in this thread read the Book of Revelation from beginning to end? Word for word?
Didn't think so.

I had originally started a thread some time ago titled "America's date with destiny. Is America Babylon??"

www.abovetopsecret.com...


On the topic though, I do have strong reason to believe that America is indeed the end times Babylon spoken of in the Bible.


One great read..:


www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...



Was catching up on some Bible reading last night and I stumbled across this:

(This is prophecy concerning Israel being brought back into her own land)


Jer 30:10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.


Jer 30:11 For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.


Pay particular attention to verse 11:

"though I make a FULL END of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I NOT make a FULL END of thee"


God is basically saying that he is going to make a full END of all the nations that the Jews were 'scattered'!!..
(Before she was brought 'out of the wilderness' back to her own land)




Any thoughts on this?




[edit on 24-2-2006 by TxSecret]

Originally posted by mooonhoxe
I haven't read evry post to this thread, but I was watching "Science of the Bible", possibly on National Geographic, but they posted a theory on the whole subject of Revelations. They hyphothesized that Revelations was not a 'prophecy', but might have just been referring to Nero's reign. To everyone of that time, Rome was considered to be the 7 mountains. The Christians of that time used the book of Revelations to warn others of the Roman Empire.

Just so you know, most of the stuff on shows like "Science of the Bible" is trash. They might have one person that has a clue and 3 that just make up stuff.

Originally posted by zerotolerance
Why would the last book in the Bible (the "sign-off" if you will) be about a small history lesson on the end of the Roman Empire?

Because the Roman empire was the entire world, at the time and for the people of that time. The end of the roman world was, for them, the end of the world. The entire book is writtenin that context. At the same time that the christians were building up their religion, it was in strict competition with other religions, ie, false prophets. And that book contains dire threats against anyone that goes over to that other religion, iow, it keeps the flock in line. Don't go to that mithraeum, the bull is the beast, you will die when jesus returns if you go along with the abominations of isis, the whore of babylon, all of babylon will be destroyed, so forget about worshiping the cult of the roman emporor.

It talks about Satan (the Antichrist) and Christ second coming to earth (I don't remember Satan showing up when the Roman Empire went under).

So? I don't recall christ returning within one generation of his death like he promised either. What of it? Also, and I am not 100% familiar with the book, but where does it say 'the anti-christ is satan'? And when is Satan refered to as the anti-christ anywhere else in the gospels? Satan temps jesus in the desert, not the anti-christ. The whore of babylon, the beast rising from the abyss, the false prophet, the mysteries, the 'anti-christ' (ie "that which is placed ante to, or in place of, christ), all of it makes more sense individually and as a whole system if its interpreted as talking about the world of its composition, that of early imperial rome, when christianity was competeing against the mystery religions with their idols, abomindations, and the worldly concerns of the empire. Not to mention the dreadful persectuctions and executions that christians suffered in the roman world, even christ was killed by the romans, under roman law, by roman hands, and in that most peculiarly roman method of 'fixation to a cross'. So of course Rome and its mystery cults get talked about.

TxSecret
God is basically saying that he is going to make a full END of all the nations that the Jews were 'scattered'!!

When was this book written? Certainly not after the romans dispersed the jews, ie the Diaspora, the scattering. Jerimiah is there for the destruction of solomon's temple, the conquest of judah, and the Babylonian Captivity. Scattering in his book is most likely the Babylonian Captivity, the countries they are spread to would be places like iraq, iran, afghanistan, pakistan, india, armenia, maybe even parts of arabia. Not america.

Do you think Babylon in Revelations might be the U.S. or New York City?

No...I think it was actually Babylon.

Originally posted by Bobular
"You are willing to accept that Babylon is a metaphor, but you assume it is a metaphor for ...another earthly city? What would be the purpose of calling some other not yet existent city Babylon? If god means "new york", why not just come out and say "new york". It's a book of prophecy right?"

You gave me this idea:

ok say

New York = Babylon
"New" "York" = "Baby" Lion"
And Britain is said to be represented by a lion. New York is the baby lion or the new lion.

I can't help but think Babylon is the Net and Babylon-a-comin'. Oops sorry, Babylon is here and now. After a war? Who knows? Babylon.

Originally posted by Bobular

For all the nations have drunk the wine of her licentious passion. The kings of the earth had intercourse with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her drive for luxury."

Sounds like "the center of world trade" (WTC) to me. Always ruminated on this subject- great thread- thanks Bobular

Don't forget about how they're implying that we'll have a woman president in '08:





[edit on 17-4-2006 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Babylon=Modern Civilization=United Nations=Destruction

I will send on you the Medes(Russia) and the Persians(China).

[edit on 18-4-2006 by NeoQuest]

Babylon is surpose to be Babylon, why do americans think that thousand of year old douments would relate to their country and citites? The new testament was written in the middle east around 100-400AD. So since they had no idea that another continent acturly existed, how could the writers link Babylon with something they dint even know?!
You can assume all you like to make yourself more important linking what ever you want in the bible to your life.
Hey jesus really was born in Jersey, and was crucified at Rockerfellar Plaza!

Originally posted by wang
Babylon is surpose to be Babylon, why do americans think that thousand of year old douments would relate to their country and citites? The new testament was written in the middle east around 100-400AD. So since they had no idea that another continent acturly existed, how could the writers link Babylon with something they dint even know?!
You can assume all you like to make yourself more important linking what ever you want in the bible to your life.
Hey jesus really was born in Jersey, and was crucified at Rockerfellar Plaza!

A major argument is that it's based on the empire. Supporting arguments about that empire expanding into modern day is because of the Catholic churches Roman Empire and relations to ancient paganism, amongst other things, and further into the American Empire thanks to Freemasons and their worship of the Ancient Mysteries schools.

Originally posted by wang
Babylon is surpose to be Babylon, why do americans think that thousand of year old douments would relate to their country and citites? The new testament was written in the middle east around 100-400AD. So since they had no idea that another continent acturly existed, how could the writers link Babylon with something they dint even know?!
You can assume all you like to make yourself more important linking what ever you want in the bible to your life.
Hey jesus really was born in Jersey, and was crucified at Rockerfellar Plaza!

There are two Babylons. Babylon and Mystery Babylon.

Yeah , from what I've been told, Babylon is Iraq,
It's oil is the wealth it speaks of.

Originally posted by NeoQuest
Babylon=Modern Civilization=United Nations=Destruction

I will send on you the Medes(Russia) and the Persians(China).

The Medes were a tribe in what is now iran. The persians are also a people in what is now iran, neither have anything to do with russia and china. The jews at the time had no conception of china and practically none of russia, other than that part of land being some wild far far far away place. The medes, persians, babylon, all of those things were part of 'their world'.