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Originally posted by loam
Originally posted by Nygdan
Please concentrate on the issues, not the perceived personalities of other posters.
jsobecky's faulty "logic" is the issue I addressed... I otherwise have made no express comment about personality.
Nonetheless, (and because it's nice to see the word please on occasion ), I will apply extra scrutiny to my declarations.
I suggest jsobecky do the same... or I may have to avail myself of our brand new law signed by the "truth" seekers in our government. See here.
from Benevolent Heretic
quote: Originally posted by jsobecky
Once again, it was not what the USA government was planning!
...
This has been stated and proven by several members posting in this thread; how many times must it be repeated?
I'm sorry, you're right, it was the Joint Cheifs of Staff, the heads of all branches of the US military. Is that correct? Perhaps a link or a quote might be more helpful than a frustrated denial with no additional information. Just a thought.
Who the hell is in charge of all this?????? This is criminal in its insanity.
I think i'm going to have to stop reading and researching this or I might just become ...
Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
In my opinion, this is the point that soooo many are evading/missing.
Yes, it was just a proposal, BUT it was THE proposal put forth to the Commander-In-Chief, for final approval.
The Northwoods Document/Proposal was NOT simply a proposition by a few crackpot military planners. It was THE plan put forth, signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, for Presidential Approval!
At the time it was their, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, best recommendation as to a possible course of action.
Originally posted by Gools
Hey Wupy!... welcome to ATS!
Do you know who the top people where at the CIA around that time?
On Springer's point about motivation in his 911 parallel: Petrodollar Warfare. That and a little forum we call Peak Oil.
And don't forget about PNAC.
.
Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
In my opinion, this is the point that soooo many are evading/missing.
Yes, it was just a proposal, BUT it was THE proposal put forth to the Commander-In-Chief, for final approval.
The Northwoods Document/Proposal was NOT simply a proposition by a few crackpot military planners. It was THE plan put forth, signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, for Presidential Approval!
Originally posted by bsbray11
only one such proposal - made to only one president.
Originally posted by mrwupy
That is a good question about the CIA. I believe Dulles was in charge at the time and Kennedy replaced him not long after this proposal.
Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
Would you please show me the other proposal(s) put forth for Presidential approval?
Thanks in advance ...
Originally posted by bsbray11
Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
Would you please show me the other proposal(s) put forth for Presidential approval?
Thanks in advance ...
I think you missed my entire point there. That point was that it's fortunate that we look back on this at all, with the view of 'this could have happened.'
Had it been signed, I'm 99% certain that we would still be arguing over whether or not the government was complicit, to this day.
Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
My point here being, giving consideration to the proposal(s) of the past, which have been proven to be only a signature away from "history", what is and has transpired since.?! ... with or without public approval/acceptance.
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Yes, he did. The History Place is a good site to read for a brief overview of what happened during that time.
That site has a lot of information.
Originally posted by Gools
Secret and oppressive governments don't lead to good things.
Originally posted by Gools
The failure of "the press"
Originally posted by Gools
and the Justice branch of Government
Originally posted by Nygdan
No. It was not. It was a plan submitted to the president and rejected by him, it wasn't just 'here's some whacked out stuff that is being floated'. It was 'here's what we need to do'.
[edit on 9-1-2006 by Nygdan]
The proposal was presented in a document entitled "Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba," a draft memorandum pdf) written by the Department of Defense (DoD) and Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) representative to the Caribbean Survey Group. The draft memo was presented by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13 with one paragraph approved, as a preliminary submission for planning purposes. However, McNamara rejected the proposal.
Originally posted by Muaddib
The proposal was presented in a document entitled "Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba," a draft memorandum pdf) written by the Department of Defense (DoD) and Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) representative to the Caribbean Survey Group. The draft memo was presented by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13 with one paragraph approved, as a preliminary submission for planning purposes. However, McNamara rejected the proposal.
Excerpted from.
www.nationmaster.com...
Note the parts in bold "draft memo which had one paragraph approved and was presented as a preliminary submission for planning purposes which was rejected by McNamara." It didn't even reach president Kennedy.
Originally posted by loam
I'm still not comforted by that. Are you?
Originally posted by jsobecky
I was fully aware of McNamara's role in reigning Lemnitzer in. I thought JFK knew about it also, but that's neither here nor there because he would have squashed it also.
In the final sentence of his letter to Secretary McNamara recommending the operations, Lemnitzer made a grab for even more power asking that the Joint Chiefs be placed in charge of carrying out Operation Northwoods and the invasion. "It is recommended," he wrote, "that this responsibility for both oven and covert military operations be assigned to the Joint Chiefs of Staff."
At 2:30 on the afternoon of Tuesday, March 13, 1962, Lemnitzer went over last-minute details of Operation Northwoods with his covert action chief, Brigadier General William H. Craig, and signed the document. He then went to a "special meeting" in McNamara's office. An hour later he met with Kennedy's military representative, General Maxwell Taylor. What happened during those meetings is unknown. But three days later, President Kennedy told Lemnitzer that there was virtually no possibility that the U.S. would ever use overt military force in Cuba.
Undeterred, Lemnitzer and the Chiefs persisted, virtually to the point of demanding that they be given authority to invade and take over Cuba. About a month after submitting Operation Northwoods, they met the "tank," as the JCS conference room was called, and agreed on the wording of a tough memorandum to McNamara. "The Joint Chiefs of Staff believe that the Cuban problem must be solved in the near future," they wrote. "Further, they see no prospect of early success in overthrowing the present communist regime either as a result of internal uprising or external political, economic or psychological pressures. Accordingly they believe that military intervention by the United States will be required to overthrow the present communist regime."
If you're right, and I have no reason to doubt you, it is further proof that it only takes one person to change the course of history.
I still have a problem with the 9/11 link, though.
Originally posted by esdad71
Please take some time and read some history books and realize that this has occured at all levels of government since the beginning of time. I am not blind to the fact that my government is corrupt on certain levels, I challenge you to show me one that is not.
Folks, if you think we needed 9/11 to invade Iraq, you are wrong. That plan was in the ready I am sure before bush came into office.
Until the men in black body armor knock on my door and ask me to leave, I'll support my country.
Originally posted by jsobecky
loam, your actions border on stalking and trolling. Mods, please take notice.
astronomer68
they were patriotic americans doing their jobs
and that prospect frightened the crap out of a lot of people
mrwupy
just signed and hurried off to other things.
muaddib
presented as a preliminary submission for planning purposes which was rejected by McNamara