CONS: Project Northwoods. America's plan to attack America., page 6


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reply posted on 10-1-2006 @ 09:37 AM by Benevolent Heretic
Originally posted by Nygdan
Thanks for the correction. The orignal newspaper report I read on it noted that the 'civilian government' rejected it, which I took to mean the presidency, apparenlty its the Defense Secretary.
Bullets should still've been doled out.


I'm not sure McNamara rejected it. Depending on what source you believe, McNamara actually took it to the President.

Operation Northwoods


- presented Northwoods to Secretary of Defense McNamara, 3/13/1962

- Commander of U.S. Forces in Europe, 1962 (demotion after McNamara and Kennedy refused his Northwoods plan)

- retires from the military, 1969


And from my previous post:

Just in case there are still questions about this:


He then went to a "special meeting" in McNamara's office. An hour later he met with Kennedy's military representative, General Maxwell Taylor. What happened during those meetings is unknown. But three days later, President Kennedy told Lemnitzer that there was virtually no possibility that the U.S. would ever use overt military force in Cuba.

Emphasis added.


reply posted on 10-1-2006 @ 07:38 PM by jsobecky
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I'm not sure McNamara rejected it. Depending on what source you believe, McNamara actually took it to the President.

Operation Northwoods


- presented Northwoods to Secretary of Defense McNamara, 3/13/1962

- Commander of U.S. Forces in Europe, 1962 (demotion after McNamara and Kennedy refused his Northwoods plan)

- retires from the military, 1969


And from my previous post:

Just in case there are still questions about this:


He then went to a "special meeting" in McNamara's office. An hour later he met with Kennedy's military representative, General Maxwell Taylor. What happened during those meetings is unknown. But three days later, President Kennedy told Lemnitzer that there was virtually no possibility that the U.S. would ever use overt military force in Cuba.

Emphasis added.

Had you continued with the quote, it would have revealed that
Concluding, Lemnitzer did not mince words: "[T]he Joint Chiefs of Staff recommend that a national policy of early military intervention in Cuba be adopted by the United States. They also recommend that such intervention be undertaken as soon as possible and preferably before the release of National Guard and Reserve forces presently on active duty."

By then McNamara had virtually no confidence in his military chief and was rejecting nearly every proposal the general sent to him. The rejections became so routine, said one of Lemnitzer's former staff officers, that the staffer told the general that the situation was putting the military in an "embarrassing rut." But Lemnitzer replied, "I am the senior military office--it's my job to state what I believe and it's his [McNamara's] job to approve or disapprove." "McNamara's arrogance was astonishing," said Lemnitzer's aide, who knew nothing of Operation Northwoods. "He gave General Lemnitzer very short shrift and treated him like a schoolboy. The general almost stood at attention when he came into the room. Everything was 'Yes, sir' and 'No, sir.'
Emphasis mine


and, another source holds that
It has been reported that John F. Kennedy personally rejected the proposal, but no official record of this exists. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara examined and rejected the proposal, and the President removed General Lyman Lemnitzer as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff shortly afterward, although he became Supreme Allied Commander of NATO in January 1963.
en.wikipedia.org...

Emphasis added



reply posted on 11-1-2006 @ 12:06 AM by Intelearthling
While Operation Northwoods was never implemented,Operation Mongoose had full presidential endorsements.

For those of you who are interested, Cuba, 1961-62 cantains 443 documents and memoranda from the State Dept. of Foriegn Relations.

It's not a quick read. It contains about 2.65 MB of information.

Now back to the topic. I'm quite humored at the false visions conjured up by some as being real. To be quite frank, that's OK. There is no need for some to know the truth about things they can't fathom. The less they know, the better off our national security will be.

As for the underlying reasons for ever thinking of Operation Northwoods, it had to be done. Just brainstorming ideas to head off the threat of the day. If we didn't have the leadership in Washington DC at the time of these plans (among many), we'd be speaking a language that's written in Cyrillic today.


[edit on 11/1/06 by Intelearthling]


reply posted on 11-1-2006 @ 11:48 AM by esdad71
This is not a current administration issue, take a look at anything from 1992-2000 if you want a laugh about national security, defense cuts and failures. Do you fail to remember how often we bombed the hell out of iraq during that time period?

downingstreetmemo.com...
yeah, I know about the downing street memo, and this is a pretty good site with information. However, this alone did not put this war in motion. It was an outline becasue at the time there were concerns over WMD, tht I still fell made their way to Syria.

thanks for the compliment, but I am not niave, I am informed and have an opinion, just like you. As far as leading to a war in Iran, do a little research into the history of this country and see why they should not allow them to posses nuclear weapons, and we are not hte only country. Even Russia who provides them with alot of resources and technology is against it. I am not for a war with Iran, I think alot of lives would be lost. However, I am not going to bad mouth my country.


reply posted on 11-1-2006 @ 11:50 AM by Benevolent Heretic
Thank you for your response.

I just want to make a few points about it as regards me and my beliefs, if you'll allow the slightly off-topic post.

Originally posted by esdad71
The truth is i have to have faith in my country...


I also have to have faith in my country. And I do. I have great faith in this country and the standards and morals upon which it was built. I have unending faith in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. I am a patriot and I would die for my country.

Declaration of Independence


That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.


The people and our rights are the heart of this country. The government is only there by our request and at our service to secure our rights. That's their job. And the founding fathers made sure that if they weren't doing their job, we had an obligation to get someone else in there who would.


When one of the leaders of a religion fails to provide for what you believe is right, do you turn my back on them?


Yes! If I were a member of a religion and my pastor was corrupt, I would find another pastor. You bet! I don't understand why you wouldn't. Don't confuse loyalty to 'the country' with loyalty to 'the president'. Don't confuse faith in the pastor with faith in God.

I suspect you (and many like you who seem to have blind loyalty to a man who is ruining this country) are unwilling or unable to separate the foundation of this country, its morals, values and standards from the mortal, fallible, corruptible human being sitting in the Oval Office.

I consider it my duty to speak out against the corruption I see fouling what this country stands for. We must see the separation between patriotism to the country and blind loyalty to its 'leader'.


People who attmept to defile or portray the country I live in upsets me.


I have not said one bad word about this country. I LOVE the USA. I am a loyal and patriotic citizen of this country. That's why I take it so seriously when I see corruption at the helm steering it towards destruction.

Edit for spelling and clarity.

[edit on 11-1-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]


reply posted on 11-1-2006 @ 02:09 PM by Muaddib
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
........
My question is, if you are not shocked by corruption in the government, what piece of information do you have that tells you that 9/11 is NOT a cover-up?


I know these questions were not directed at me, but if i may.

Reasons why I don't believe 9/11 is a coverup.

1.) Because Islamic radicals have tried to blow up the wtc before.

2.) Because Islamic radicals have professed their hatred towards the west in general but more so towards the U.S. because we choose to defend Israel and because our way of life is a threat to the radical islam way of life.

3.) Because Islamic radicals have been doing the same thing in other countries, killing as many innocent civilians as possible.

4.) Because they have blown themselves up in places like Madrid while yelling in arabic allah is great when the police found evidence of some of the people who were involved in the bombings of 3/11 in Madrid. What "cover up agent" is going to do that?.... That is only done by men/women who have been blinded to hate a society that is different from theirs by radical Islam.

BTW, many times have I presented evidence that the government of Spain has found evidence that Islamic radicals planned for 9/11 in Spain alongside other evidence which I have posted from Spain, the Czech Republic and other countries which pointed to a link between Iraq, Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups.

But nomatter what evidence is shown, even from other countries, there are people that are blinded by their hatred towards the present administration, and these people just want to believe "that the government must have been behind 9/11," when the evidence shows the contrary.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
After hearing about and being aware of covert plans such as Operation Mongoose, what line is drawn in the sand that prevents you from considering that 9/11 was such a plan?


Operation Mongoose, or Operation Cuba, was an operation to overthrow the communist regime in Cuba...what does that have to do with 9/11? What link are you talking about exists between "Operation Mongoose" and 9/11?


Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
In the above quote from you, you say that you believe that the government would cover something up, but then you just know that 9/11 was not a cover-up. My question is how do you know?

And that's a real question. I'm not trying to be a smarty. I just wonder what makes you sure?

[edit on 11-1-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]


Of course governments cover up information. All of them do and that will never change. Governments cover up information so their enemies do not find that information and use it against governments.

How do i know that 9/11 was not a government conspiracy? I already stated why above.

My question is, what link is there between Operation Mongoose and 9/11?

Why are people claiming "the U.S. government did all this" yet other countries have shown evidence which points to the fact that these attacks, "including the one in 9/11" were done by Islamic radicals?

In fact there are people that would never think otherwise nomatter what evidence is presented, which even comes from other countries, and which shows the contrary to what some keep trying to claim.

[edit on 11-1-2006 by Muaddib]


reply posted on 11-1-2006 @ 02:49 PM by Benevolent Heretic
Originally posted by Muaddib
Islamic radicals planned for 9/11


Thanks for your answer, too. I happen to agree with you on this point. I think that Islamic radicals hijacked those airplanes on 9/11 and crashed them into the WTC.

I also think this administration knew about it ahead of time and allowed it to happen, had explosives pre-planted in WTC1, 2, and 7 to bring them down and used the whole catastrophic event as a justification for the war on terror and ultimately the war in Iraq.

If the buildings had just burned and fizzled out on top, it wouldn't have been enough to create such a frenzy in the US citizenry to support a war against the Islamic Radicals. Those buildings had to come down and thousands had to die.

So, your evidence that Islamic radicals planned and executed the 9/11 disaster is wasted on me.


What link are you talking about exists between "Operation Mongoose" and 9/11?


I'm so sorry! I meant Operation Northwoods. (I have edited that statement) It makes no difference, though.

I'm not talking about a link per se. I'm simply pointing out that if our top military can sit around a table and devise such a plan and present it to the president as a viable and necessary action, without some (most) of them standing up and saying, "WTF are you suggesting?!?! Killing our own people to get a war started"? -- it's not a big stretch (in my mind) that perhaps Cheney and Rummy maybe along with the Joint Chiefs would come up with a way to use a genuine terrorist attack to further their agenda and facilitate what they think is a beneficial war.

I believe that answers all the questions in your post. If not, let me know.


reply posted on 11-1-2006 @ 03:30 PM by esdad71
Ahh...the bravado of a keyboard...

PNAC is a think tank, I am aware of who they are. and if you are referring to the nurse who supposedly 'started' GW 1. then yes i know who she is.

en.wikipedia.org...:Cyan/kidnapped/Nurse_Nayirah

So, are you stating that you believe the testimony of the 2 nurses who were there, who could have been firghtened or coerced in thier statements, were bieng truthful? what is never stated is whether or not she was a nurse or not, jsut becasue she is the daughter of a prominent person she is a liar?

So now we are associating the PNAC with 'Operation Northwoods'?

stay on target and try not to attack my knowledge
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