Hmmm... I have know idea what that diagram is/means. At first It looked like a diagram of the Roswell craft, similar to others I've seen in books

By the way, the artwork on the Coast to coast site came into my head too.



Anyway, I haven't spent hours looking through all these threads or the serpo site itself, but what I want to know is:

What are the supposed photos of?





I found this interesting:

“We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity….. anything you can imagine we already know how to do.”

Ben Rich, former Head of the Lockheed Skunk Works, in a lecture shortly before he died





[edit on 5-2-2006 by Spreadthetruth]

By "initiated" I mean those who haven't read all there is to read on the subject at hand.

The following are NOTHING MORE or LESS than my personal observations and opinions:

The "IP" Issue:
while we seem to have a member who adamantly and vehemently seems to think this a worthless bit of confirmation, I would suggest you keep digging until you find where Mr. Ryan indicated the validity of "his" Anonymous was satisfactorily confirmed to be the same Anonymous as Mr Martinez' "Anonymous" by virtue of the IP. It's there and it does matter in spite of the ease of spoofing, there has been no evidence of spoofing up to that point and the IPs have been the same right up to the point of contention that a "new" anon emerged on the scene. If you don't the see value in that bit of clarification then so be it, but please stop harping about it, it adds nothing to the conversation.

The major point being, Mr. Ryan indicated he had indeed confirmed the IP and thus validity of "his" anon with Mr. Martinez' "original" anon when the evidence shows he has not. This is a HUGE point. That severely DEVALUES Mr. Ryan's credibility in my eyes at least. WHY lie?

That causes the wise, IMHO, to start reviewing motives. What motive does the "SERPO TEAM" have to fire Mr. Martinez and install Mr. Ryan? According to the latter, the "TEAM" was dissatisfied with Mr. Martinez' "editing" or changing of the posts/emails. All the evidence Mr. Martinez has indicates the opposite.

No motive at all IMHO. The new "anon" may have several motivations to take over, install a new mouthpiece etc... The first of which is the age old build up the attention and make money via speeches, appearances, books, DVDs, Cd's, etc... This avenue could indicate the new "anon" is one of the people who stand gain.

The second possible motive is to take all eyes off the original material, its messenger and make it the whole bloody thing look ridiculous and thereby destroy any credibility in disclosing anything.

Whichever, if any of the above are even close to the truth I, as one of the owners of this site would like to offer "anon #1" and Mr. Martinez a venue from which they can tell the story that "anon #1" was trying to tell. A venue controlled by three people who will not allow any strange twists or changes to occur without VETTING the players making the changes. A venue from which they can tell what they want with zero fear of being "fired" or discarded in any way.

I really don't care one way or the other beyond the fact I found the first 10 anon posts darn enjoyable reading. The "anon's" seemingly changed between serpo.org posting 10A and 11. Coincidentally enough (yuk yuk yuk) the discrepancies started on post eleven.



Worse yet, the new "anon" who is STILL un-vetted based on the evidence, has done little else than contradict, and make a mockery of the original "anon" by way of several bits of information that don't jive with what was coming from "anon #1".

Springer...



[edit on 2-5-2006 by Springer]

Originally posted by SpringerI really don't care one way or the other beyond the fact I found the first 10 anon posts darn enjoyable reading.

could be the pain meds, no? ok, obvious joke made, now to the important stuff.

Springer, it was suggested somewhere that the tres amigos try to set up a Q&A with Victor and/or Anon in a manner that protects anon's identity and protects both of them from the obvious maelstrom that would occur if they posted in the thread. Perhaps a series of questions reviewed and selected by a group handpicked by the mods or amigos and then sent to victor and anon (he can communicate both ways with anon).

Since there are clearly issues with Bill Ryan and his anon (one and the same or otherwise), why not go back to the original source and restart this without all the additional people? The lastest drawing is a joke and, to be honest, I feel bad for Bill. He says he's dealing with really slow dial-up and the downloading of that image and subsequent upload must have taken hours. Not to mention all the inbetween time posting responses.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
Is there any electricians on this thread, and can they find anything remotely close to electrical symbols in the scan?

I'm an electrical engineer by study and by trade and deal with electrical schematics daily. To answer your question - as others have stated, without labels it is close to meaningless.

As far as electrical symbols - some look vaguely similar to old transistor-style symbols, but not really that close - the symbols are missing a LOT of important detail if these are earth-based electrical schematics. It would be a stretch of the imagination to draw any kind of conclusions. I think HAL9000's take on the symbols (toilet and bath) is much more accurate and headed in the correct direction.

However overall the image looks a lot like some of the diagrams in publications I've seen in the world of quantum physics (in a VERY general and horribly simple form) - related to the zero-point energy discussion we had a few hundred pages ago. My take is probably that this drawing had over-the-phone or email input from pseudo-scientists/physicists, and then was put together buy an amateur using basic drawing tools. Just my first impression.

S.O. is absolutely right, the focus right now should be on vetting our source and/or sources. If Bill won't do that for us (and maybe he can't - I still like to give him the benefit of the doubt) - we need to do it for ourselves.

I'm not sure what the big deal is about the IP discussion. There are many other ways to track people down other than using IP's... Anyway - that will be a discussion for another time I'm sure. Keep playing cloak & dagger Anon - this is just getting interesting.

-rdube02

Originally posted by kinglizard
Thank goodness everything in the Serpo Image could be perfectly drawn using a drawing template...including the toilet and bathtub shapes, I mean what are the chances.

Thanks to Hal9000 for discovering this.

As a mechanical designer, in my earlier days (25+ years ago) I did some archetectual design before changing over to mechanical/structural design, I used a borrowed drafting template and had to sketch the sanitary facilities of a building, I immediately recognized the symbol of the WC, but the posting of HAL9000's drafting template confirmed the remaining symbols.

I believe as someone previously mention, this story is going down the toilet.

~

What bothers me is not what this image is or how it has been made. The question is WHY.
Frankly, what is anon's goal to publish an image that nobody here can understand.
So, I see only two possibilies:

a) it is pure BS, and the guy is having good time

b) it is not meant to us, it is possibely a threat to.. lets say the gov.
Could it be like this, I have much more info and pics, I can post them, but I would prefer the gov to take over this disclosure. If nothing happens, then ok I am going to post all the 3000 pages.
This could also explain the inconsistencies of the data we got, there is some truth and much BS, like this picture.

assuming that it is not a hoax, I believe that the three 'toilet template' shaped figures could be weel wells. The tripod shaped is what is conventially used in many aircraft. Also, the the three large circular outlines could be of thrust channels. These would allow for vertical lift, however I cannot spot how horizontal thrust would be produced.

Originally posted by MaxMarv


As a mechanical designer, in my earlier days (25+ years ago) I did some archetectual design before changing over to mechanical/structural design, I used a borrowed drafting template and had to sketch the sanitary facilities of a building, I immediately recognized the symbol of the WC, but the posting of HAL9000's drafting template confirmed the remaining symbols.

I believe as someone previously mention, this story is going down the toilet.

~

So what year - do ya think this template was produced... A wild guess?
the r22


oh - never mind - Good job NextLevel


jesus - im so behind.. 1932



[edit on 07/29/73 by Ram]

Originally posted by looofo
What bothers me is not what this image is or how it has been made. The question is WHY.

I watched a good movie a couple of days ago called "The Raid" - about the saving of hundreds of WWII POW's in one of the Japanese POW camps. Our platoon - going behind enemy lines toward the POW camp, needed a diversion. They called in for a flyover. As the U.S. rangers crawled toward the camp - getting in place for the attack, at just the right time, the huge plane flew in low over the camp - all Japanese guards and prisoners just stood there staring up at the sky, watching with wonder what on earth this was all about. No shooting or bombing, just a flyover.

Someone stated recently, very aptly - something along the lines of - while the entire world of ufology is looking on one direction, what is going on behind our backs?

Now is the time to keep guard more closely than before. Dive into your normal research harder than you ever have before. Don't let this Serpo nonsense distract you.

Thanks for listening, and have a great day.

-rdube02

Great stuff King Lizard.

I got really excited, then found out this templates were around since 1932, curses! Foiled again!

I think this "discovery" of the templates used to draw the image brings up a few possible "facts":

1. We know the templates used to draw the picture.

2. We know the picture was drawn using a template, and not created in a computer program.

3. The person who drew the picture didn't realize what some of the "shapes" they were using stood for.

4. This is not a scale picture. Meaning, the image used for the WC is not in scale with the rest of the object.

5. This may, or may not, clip onto a belt.

6. The image used by King Lizard was the one I made, and not the original.

Okay, "fact" 5 and 6 aren't very good.

Anyway, I'm still interested in following up on the idea about the diary entries and the tense used in them. Does anyone else want to try and piece together a profile of the type of person who would typically write this way? No one seems to be following up on this other than me.

-O

Excellent observations by Val, SO, and Springer!

That IPS is important. Say what you will, but we have to try to resolve the issue whether Victor's Anon and Bill's Anon are the same. As another poster put forth, the probability is the sources can't leave the base, probably not even the building with these documents which is in our favor.

Springer, I enjoyed and agree with everything you said. I know there are people here trying to bring Victor into this conversation, and well he should be included. I have verified that he indeed feels he was "fired" and doesn't understand the reason behind it.

The picture, diagram, whatever, should not surprise anyone who has read the last 15 pages. As I recall there was some information put on the table the the cameras might be affected by the radiation, and I posted, that would not stop the team from making sketches.........well, duh?

I wonder if anyone took Bob Ross Oils and Canvas, or an Etch-a-Sketch?

Slight observation here: human schematics would help since this is a report to be read by humans, so the idea it is of EBEN design?

But no date, initials, no reference number?

Hmmmmm....




[edit on 5-2-2006 by garyo1954]

[edit on 5-2-2006 by garyo1954]

Originally posted by NextLevel
In fact, let's be honest here, shall we? Having the diagram match up perfectly with a drawing template PROVES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

It proves everything to me and it should to you too.

What is more likely:

1) Every shape in the object being represented by the schematic just happens to be perfectly represented in the architectural template.

or...

2) The architectural template was used to create a fake image.


Certainly circles and squares aren't the best proof because you don't get a more common shape but the bathtub, toilet and moon shapes are a smoking gun. Not to mention that the size of every shape exactly matches the size of the shapes on the template. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that the image is a bad hoax attempt.

Don't get me wrong, believe what you like but I'm not interested in fantasies.

These types of hoaxes destroy the reputation of the UFO community. Maybe that is the point behind this Serpo BS.

I'm done....be well....

[edit on 5-2-2006 by kinglizard]

This just in from the gang that just keeps on giving us hours of entertainment!

SERPO spelled backwards = OPRES: "Office-Of-Primary Responsibility
for Extraterrestrial Security" = Defense Intelligence Agency

isn't that cute? **

Originally posted by kinglizard
are a smoking gun.

A few days ago we were all asked for our opinions as to keeping
this thread open or if we should have it closed. At that time
I gave my opinion - leave it open with a 'drop dead'
time for producing pictures.

I gave an additional thought which I'd like to once again put
forward. I'd like to see ATS have a 'smoking gun' award.
Like a badge to put next to the poster's avatar with a hyperlink to
where that person found and posted a 'smoking gun' to
either debunk or bring to light a trans-internetsite conspiracy.

There have been more than a few debunking smoking gun posts
on this thread alone. SERIOUSLY ... would those in charge
PLEASE consider this award? I think it would be great and it
would be inspiration for more ATSers toward serious investigation.

I'm not trying to attack, rather point out that I think there are several assumptions here.

Originally posted by The Big O
3. The person who drew the picture didn't realize what some of the "shapes" they were using stood for.

That's a huge assumption. If a 13 year old kid drew this with his dad's archetectural template, he's probably laughing about using it or wondering what 'water closet' means. That's written on the template.

4. This is not a scale picture. Meaning, the image used for the WC is not in scale with the rest of the object.

Another assumption. If this drawing was of a large, luxurious bathroom with 3 toilets, several sinks and a bath in the center, it could be to scale.

5. This may, or may not, clip onto a belt.

It also may or may not be a facial mask or a wind mill or a dog collar. Or a space ship.

We know nothing of this drawing except that the template was probably used to make it. That's why I think it's a piece of bait to keep people involved and trying to figure out what it is. If it was something real, something meaningful, I ASSUME there would be something written on it.

Consider the different discussion we'd be having if there was just one word or number written on it. Sure, the wild goose chase would be going in a different direction, but as it is, there are so many speculations, that we can't focus on anything because we have nothing to go on... Nothing.

While I like the idea, unfortunately ATS already has a reputation for being too quick/determined to call everything a hoax. This "award" would feed that misconception. That's unfortunate because I happen to know the owners and KNOW that we really don't encourage this.

What we do HOPE FOR from our membership is a rational, OPEN MINDED examination of items presented combined with a COURTEOUS, civil exchange of thoughts/ideas on the items and the opinions that go with them.

Does this cause some quick knock downs? Sure it does. Do we sometimes get it wrong? Sure we do, we're human. Does this mean it's our intent to disprove everything that comes along?

HELLL NO we wouldn't have the site up and running, allow things like THIS THREAD to go this long, in so many directions if we weren't HOPING for the kernels of truth in just about EVERY story to come to light.


That's what we really hope for, the kernels of truth, that's what we keep this place running for. One of the best ways to get those precious kernels is the denial of ignorance.

Springer...