Originally posted by YYZZYY
Originally posted by Bill Ryan
I restated this in quite a long interview I myself gave for an article in a magazine (the same one Victor's interview was for), and I'd be happy to
post this if anyone would find it helpful as an up-to-the-minute statement of what I think about all this, and why it all may be happening the way it
LOL Bill, I believe I can safely speak for EVERYONE here when I say you don't need to ask if "anyone would find it helpful" before you post
something. I, for one, am immensely interested in EVERYTHING you type.
Hi, YYZZYY –
Well, thank you!
Here's the interview... it was written, not spoken, and was for the Fortean Times
. The questions were put to me by the
person writing the article. This is my counterpart to Victor's interview which I posted a few pages back.
What were your first thoughts on encountering the Serpo information?
I was astonished and intrigued. I think my thoughts were the same as those of many others: “Could this be true?”
How familiar with the UFO phenomenon were you before you got involved with Serpo? You seem to have have at least an acquaintance with the
alternative energy and healing world - did this precede your involvement with Serpo?
I’ve never been a ufologist as such – i.e. I’ve never been a researcher, corresponded with other researchers, attended any conferences, or in
any way been part of the “black ops” world. But I’ve had an intelligent lay interest in UFOs since I was a teenager, and have read many books.
I’d say I’m fairly well-informed at an amateur level, so to speak.
How did you come to run the Serpo site?
I was on Victor Martinez’s UFO list, having been introduced to it by him at almost exactly the same time as “Anonymous” started posting. In
fact, that was two days after Anonymous first released his information, and Victor included my name because he thought I might be interested. I’d
been on his current affairs list before that, and he and I had corresponded privately about some things. So he had a bit of a shrewd idea about what I
might be interested in, and was quite correct.
The idea of the website was first suggested by Bill Hamilton, I believe, and Anonymous himself mentioned it in an early posting. I saw that, and I
thought “I could do that”. I checked with Victor, he was appreciative and enthusiastic, and so by mid-November I’d created the site. The object
at that time was merely to archive all the information, which I knew by then Victor was unable to do – and, importantly, to bring the information to
a wider public audience. I felt this was potentially too important to be considered only by a closed circle of what was then only about 120 people.
Now that you are an "insider", what are your general impressions of the UFO community?
This is absolutely not personal against anybody, because I’ve built good relationships with everyone with whom I’ve been in contact. But I was
immediately struck by several things:
1) Comparatively few researchers were openly co-operating with one another. I was expecting a team approach to many issues – after all, everyone has
so much in common, viz. a fierce desire for the truth and for disclosure, and compared with those major uniting factors the personal differences are
2) But instead, I could see that there was a certain territoriality, combined with old wounds and accumulated distrust. I could also start to
understand why. It’s a tough world, and no-one’s getting rich. It takes a huge amount of time and energy and often leads nowhere special, and
sometimes only to disappointment or even feelings of betrayal.
3) My over-riding impression was that I was amazed that anyone had hung in there for twenty-odd years, through thick and then, false hopes, false
dawns, hoaxes, disinformation, misinformation, accusations, disputes, and so on. I think they’re all heroes – true soldiers, every one. It’s a
real calling, and many of them get little thanks or appreciation for their huge commitment on behalf of the wider public out there, most of whom
neither know or care. The existence of contact with extraterrestrial races is of massively profound importance for humanity, and these people are the
crusaders for that truth.
How are you finding that people respond to the possibility that the Serpo story might be true? Do you think for most people it confirms
pre-existing suspicions, or is it a shock to the system?
Among the wider public, I’ve had hundreds of messages from the website contact form conveying enthusiasm, appreciation and hope. Some of the
messages are even quite moving, some from elderly people and some from kids, all of whom want this to be true. God bless you, some of them say. It was
a real eye-opener.
The UFO community is far more skeptical, which was fascinating. At first there was strong interest, but when the anomalies – of which there are many
– began to show up, a number began to cry foul. I was astonished. I would have thought they would have been at once more open-minded, and also
experienced enough to realise what kinds of things might be happening to explain the contradictions and peculiarities. But I can see that there have
been so many hoaxes and false dawns, that many had become kind of thick-skinned and began to flinch quite quickly at the prospect of another hope
Many researchers remained totally silent, as if they were concerned about being drawn into the fray and risking their reputations, and others were
quick to point out the discrepancies, while – in my mind – overlooking al the corroborating factors. Another surprise was that that very
experience that had led many to dismiss the story should have led many to consider carefully the tricks that the Intel community can play when
releasing information. It was as if researchers were saying “Oh, no... not more disinformation. I can’t stand this any more and I’m not getting
involved this time.” But actually, there’s a lot of research to be done, and there were many plausible explanations for the way the story was
unfolding, both in terms of the apparent release strategy and the content.
From what you know, and if, of course, it actually happened, what benefits do you think the US govt, or the secret govt, gained from the SERPO
exchange? Anything we can see around us now?
I have no idea. One can only imagine. One wouldn’t have to visit another planet in order to benefit from back-engineering advanced technology. That
can be done from crashed disks right here, or from gifts of technology from the alien visitors. I’d guess that the greatest benefit might be in
terms of friendship and political alliance, rather than just technology.
Several people involved in the US UFO scene claim to have heard similar material before, from official sources - what does this suggest to
It suggests to me, strongly, that there’s no smoke without fire. Those earlier reports and sources are all independent. It’s all consistent with a
highly classified program that suffered the occasional very minor leak as the years went by.
Is there any active research being done to try to dig out previous references to the Serpo documents or material? There are a number of military
and intelligence insiders on the Martinez list - do you know if any of them are making enquiries?
I believe many are. Those who have the best chance of unearthing anything significant are the insiders themselves, of which there are quite a few. If
I had the contacts or resources, and I was one of them, I’d be working away very hard and very quietly to get to the truth of it. And if I found it,
I might not be saying, either.
There are complexities and subtleties here, which I was surprised few people seemed to consider. One is that if this is part of a release program, and
maybe just the first step in this, complete with injected elements of fiction and built-in plausible deniability, this may all be very carefully and
intelligently choreographed. The Powers that Be would not be likely to approach a critically important project like this without a great deal of
thought, deliberation, planning, consultation with sociologists and psychologists, and drawing on their own decades of experience in interfacing with
the public. It wouldn’t be done piecemeal or impulsively. That suggests to me that the sources releasing the information are well aware that there
are errors and oddities – even to the elements of the spelling mistakes and the grammar, which many have criticised. I think the DIA have the
capacity to spellcheck a document. That leads me to conclude that it’s all deliberate; what’s being published is exactly the way they want it to
So even if I was one of those insiders and I found out what was happening, I might not spill the beans if it was going to end up in real disclosure.
That’s the Holy Grail in the UFO community. If what it takes to lay low and keep the secret – of who Anonymous is (or are; it’s likely to be
more than one person) – is not to get upset about the anomalies, understanding that that’s just how they happen to be doing it, and not
identifying Anonymous, even if I knew – that’s what I’d do. That’s my current position on all this. I don’t actually have any inside
information beyond my own conjectures and what people have shared with me about their own ideas, but even if I did know exactly what was going on I
might think twice about revealing it all if that might wreck the disclosure program.
At this stage, without any further evidence, it's impossible to rule out that the SERPO documents are either a prank/hoax, or part of a deliberate
dis- or misinformation campaign. Perhaps one that originated in the 1960s, the documents only being rediscovered now. Perhaps, as you have suggested
before, the material contains nuggets of truth wrapped in fictions. Will you keep the material online even if this proves to be the case?
I think a simple hoax or a prank can absolutely be ruled out. It’s too complex for that, and there’s too much circumstantial corroboration.
Misinformation falls into the same category – that would mean it’s all false. But it could be disinformation. That means part truth, part fiction.
And the fiction part could be as little as 5% for the entire story to be thrown off-kilter. Many people don’t seem to have thought about that. If
you change, add or delete 5 words in every 100 in the story, it soon starts to sound like nonsense – if those 5 words (or numbers) are very
carefully chosen. And if you mess with 20 words in every 100, you can really go to town and make it sound ridiculous. Yet that still contains 80%
truth, as it were.
It’s like the engine in your car. You don’t have to change too many small settings or remove too many components for it to stop running well, or
stop running at all. Try adding 5% water to your fuel and see what happens then. The Serpo account may be like that: one could take the entire “real
story”, and half a dozen people could run through it it a couple of hours and completely wreck it with a comparatively few strokes of the pen or the
keyboard. Something like that may well have happened. And that’s on top of the accidental errors, which may well have crept in if some of the
released material, for instance the logs, were transcribed audiotapes which were subsequently retyped. Those natural errors seem to have been
deliberately retained, rather than corrected before release.
And even if that’s true, it seems to me to be of staggering importance that 80%, or 50%, or even 10% of this might be true. Yet many people are
getting upset or even angry about the false bits. What about the true bits? These are extraordinarily significant. After all, we’re talking about
extraterrestrial contact here. But many people are throwing this baby out with the bathwater – as if they can’t bear the idea of being messed with
yet again. It may be that it’s simply because I’ve not suffered through so much past confusion and false dawns that I’m still naively
enthusiastic. I think this is all of immense importance and yet I see many people around me who can’t seem to bear to think about seriously. But
meanwhile, as I mentioned before, in the broader public, the interest and sheer hope are both totally refreshing.
To conclude, I can see no motive for misinformation. I can see plenty of motive for disinformation. My best current guess is that we’re all being
“softened up” for the real thing, which is yet to come in terms of the undiluted truth. A colleague of mine the other day pointed out that the
Powers that Be would be concerned about causing great personal problems to anyone whose world might fall apart if they were presented with undeniable
proof of alien contact. So therefore a way has to be created for them to be able to deny the story until they’re ready to accept it, in their own
terms and in their own time. That alone could explain the anomalies and the consequent deniability; for the sake of the rigid disbelievers, the story
has to remain supportively ambiguous.
Interestingly, this hypothesis predicts that the promised photos will indeed appear – but that they’ll be subject to the same kind of controversy
as the text. The deniability will also be present in the images, and all of it will be carefully planned. So there’s a testable hypothesis, right
It seems that the Serpo story has injected new life into a scene that was fairly quiet until recently. Do you think we could be looking at the
beginnings of a revival of interest in the subject?
Yes, it could well be. In particular, the interest in the wider population has been extraordinary – and that’s really what it’s all about.