Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

That's just some guy who's assuming that Rick Doty is behind this - no facts included. Serpo revealed? Hardly.

Originally posted by promomag
I think I might have found a very significant CLUE to everything SERPO:

rickdotyismygod.blogspot.com...

Taken out of context that sounds much worse than it is. For one thing he's talking about Bill Hamilton and secondly, you left out the most important part:

Then along comes Serpo or whatever nonsense it is called. I reckon Doty looked at that List and took Martinez for the patsy that he is and thought, "I can use this guy" so he did. The distressing point about it all is that it received notice and attention and even discussion. Gee, we must really be bored.

He knows no more about it than the rest of us. Or...most of us, I should say...

-rdube02



[edit on 2-2-2006 by rdube02]

Originally posted by promomag

I would suggesting reading the whole entry as it mentions Serpo and other People that are more than likely invovled in all of this.

The link once again:
rickdotyismygod.blogspot.com...

Hi promo,

this is a naughty piece of cherry picking, this is the blog of some unknown bloke who may be a fan of Rick Doty (title may be sarcasm?) and adds no insight as to whether SERPO is a hoax or not. And yes, as has been noted, the Bill that's mentioned is quite obviously Bill Hamilton; nice edit promo.

Appears to me that your username is a bit of a misnomer?

Regards

Jim


EDIT; lazy proof reader, now redundant!

[edit on 2/2/06 by gingerlad]

At the risk of wasting anyone's time with pointless speculation and to avoid yet another diatribe of my personal opinion regarding Serpo...I'd like to liven up the discussion with a quick hypothesis...

Imagine you are part of a group, who believes that the social consciousness is actually what creates our reality. That the human mind holds certain paranormal powers that even we, ourselves, don't realize. Yet, you are part of a group who does realize it, and you want to harness the collective universal mind-power of a large number of people in order to create a reality which you believe should be our future.

First you need to convince a large number of people of this "reality". Imagine that "reality" is the existance of alien beings. Which group do you try to convince first - and how do you go about bringing all of those minds together to believe in your reality?

Let's secondly pretend that you are part of a cult or group that truly believes in this collective mind-power ability to create a new reality for the world. Just make that assumption. The question is - how would you go about convincing a large portion of the population to believe in a reality (the true existance of alien beings) that you would like them to believe in? With the thinking that if we ALL "believe" aliens are real...then it makes them actually real.

Is this related to Serpo? Absolutely. This is someone's view of reality - and they want us to make it ours as well - they are trying to drive our collective consciousness. But is this how you would take the drivers seat of the collective consciousness...?

-rdube02


[edit on 2-2-2006 by rdube02]

Here's an issue that hasn't been raised yet...

Frankly, I'm surprised.

Originally posted at Serpo.org; "Anonymous" #13a
We then see a different looking Eben. Very strange looking creature, large, long arms, almost floats along with long legs. Can't be an Eben. We all stare. This creature just floats by us and didn't even look at us. I find Ebe2... I ask her abet the creature we saw, I ask if that was some other type of Eben. Ebe2 seems confused. She asked me what creature. I used the word creature. Maybe that was an insult or maybe she didn't know the word. I pointed to the thing at the other end of the building. She then saw what I meant. Ebe2 said, no Eben, just visitor. Like you, pointing to me.

[Emphasis added]


As I'm sure many will recall, this "creature" also appears in the finale of Close Encounters...

In fact, following the debarkation of the Human abductees, this is the very first off-world Visitor we meet.

Remember??

As the Earthling scientists stare agape, a "Being" with extremely long (even spider-like) limbs crouches down to emerge from the "chandelier's" hatchway. He/she then rises to a full height and stretches arms wide open in a gesture of greeting, I had always assumed.

This is then followed by the introduction of the little "Greys" ("Archuloids"??), and finally by the appearance of the "Eben" MVC, who tries out that little bit of sign language with "Jaques Vallee".

Remember??


If this is a coincidence, then it is certainly an interesting one, is it not?

You may draw your own conclusions.


As for those "creature" comments, even I blanched when I first read them. And I'm not even an EBE... (I don't think.)

[Open mouth, insert foot...]


Might it really be any wonder at all, that an advanced, "civilized", race would regard such remarks (and the "creature" who uttered them) as primitive?


Since when has "racism" been civilized?


EBE-2 was awfully compassionate about her "correction", I thought.

The physical appearance (or "Container") of any living thing is purely immaterial.

No matter our God-given "looks", inside we all share a common soul.


"Alien", or not...


My thoughts,

Serpentime

[edit on 2-2-2006 by Serpentime]

Taken from the Comments section of Serpo.org

9 November

Nothing really new here except added information on the make up of the planet. As for the laws of physics, your Anonymous is twisting the facts. The orbits of those two stars Zeta1 & 2 is an observational fact, not some law of physics although all galaxies, stars & planets operate under those laws from what's been observed. The two stars are spread wide apart by 350 billion miles called a wide binary. And Kepler's law was applied to the planets of Zeta 2 and it works pretty good even for elliptical orbits. Puts EBE-1's home planet #4 right where it should be, see table below. The game I think is to convince everyone that yes Anonymous does have some good information. But beware, good information from what I see is being sprinkled with bad information or disinfo. For Zeta 1 & 2 see link. For Zeta 2 Planets see table.
www.solstation.com/stars2/zeta-ret.htm
EBE-1 came from the 4th planet around Zeta 2. See the AU place planet 4 is sitting around Zeta 2 or 1.12 AU. Very nice place to live.... Notice that Zeta-4 orbital period is 432 days but yet it's further out than SERPO was in that Anonymous report which gave a ridiculous 865....

Planets of the Zeta 2 Reticulum System
===============================================================
Planet Semi-Major axis Period(days) Period(years)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Reticulum 1 0.14 (AU) 18.9 (days) 0.052 (years)
Reticulum 2 0.28 54.0 0.1481
Reticulum 3 0.56 152.9 0.4196
Reticulum 4 1.12 432.6 1.12
---------------------------------------------------------------
So one Reticulum 4 year is equal to roughly 1.12 earth years or 432 days. And it is in roughly the same position in Zeta 2 Ret's "life-zone" as the Earth is in the Sun's. Zeta 2 Ret is a G1V spectral class star, the sun is a G2V.

I have absolutely no problem with the first part of this comment.

" Nothing really new here except added information on the make up of the planet. As for the laws of physics, your Anonymous is twisting the facts. The orbits of those two stars Zeta1 & 2 is an observational fact, not some law of physics although all galaxies, stars & planets operate under those laws from what's been observed. The two stars are spread wide apart by 350 billion miles called a wide binary."

However, I would like to point out that the rest of this comment is erroneous. Beginning with this statement.

" And Kepler's law was applied to the planets of Zeta 2 and it works pretty good even for elliptical orbits."

There are no known " planets of Zeta 2" !

That information can be found here. www.mufor.org...

It is based on extrapolations made from erroneous data. It had been thought that an Exoplanet was detected , then only considered to have been protuberances due to Zeta 2 's solar activity. In other words there is no known planet orbiting Zeta 2 that we could use to compare against the orbital data given for Serpo.

To make this short... Saying Serpo data is ridiculous , compared to ridiculous erroneous data , is ridiculous!



[edit on 2-2-2006 by lost_shaman]

Originally posted by rdube02
At the risk of wasting anyone's time with pointless speculation and to avoid yet another diatribe of my personal opinion regarding Serpo...I'd like to liven up the discussion with a quick hypothesis...

Imagine you are part of a group, who believes that the social consciousness is actually what creates our reality. That the human mind holds certain paranormal powers that even we, ourselves, don't realize. Yet, you are part of a group who does realize it, and you want to harness the collective universal mind-power of a large number of people in order to create a reality which you believe should be our future.

First you need to convince a large number of people of this "reality". Imagine that "reality" is the existance of alien beings. Which group do you try to convince first - and how do you go about bringing all of those minds together to believe in your reality?

Let's secondly pretend that you are part of a cult or group that truly believes in this collective mind-power ability to create a new reality for the world. Just make that assumption. The question is - how would you go about convincing a large portion of the population to believe in a reality (the true existance of alien beings) that you would like them to believe in? With the thinking that if we ALL "believe" aliens are real...then it makes them actually real.

Is this related to Serpo? Absolutely. This is someone's view of reality - and they want us to make it ours as well - they are trying to drive our collective consciousness. But is this how you would take the drivers seat of the collective consciousness...?

-rdube02


[edit on 2-2-2006 by rdube02]

Well stated, rdube02! Excellent way to get some folks around here to think about all of this a little differently. Of course, will they?

We shall see. May be helpful if you posted a link to some of the research that you're doing around this aspect of it.

Originally posted by WHOFLUNGGUM
I have one question regarding something that was touched upon earlier but brushed aside. Philip Corso wrote in his book that one of the objects recovered from the Roswell crash was a type of headband. This was identified as a device the Ebe wore on it's head for navigating the ship. It seem to make the Ebe a part of the ships circuitry. It was earlier mentioned that the Eben would have communicated through Telepathy.

You even posted about just such from an email that you recieved. Now I recall in an earlier log entry that it said the pilots learned fairly quickly to fly the Eban craft. Now this doesn't coincide with Phillips Corso's account of the engineers not being able to figure out the navigation system much less fly it. Have you or anyone that you are in contact with discussed this as a possible red flag?

Hi, WHOFLUNGUM –

Yes, there are consistent reports that the disks require a conscious input to (my words here) "complete the circuit", as I understand it. I remember reading somewhere recently that it was feared (by J-Rod? can't remember) that we might never be able to master piloting the disks as we just weren't sufficiently advanced mentally.

But the reference to easily learning to fly the Eben craft, I think – someone please double-check – was only to their local flying devices, which in post #13b were described in the log as "helitransport". In post #2, Anon/Victor writes:

The ground transportation used by our team was similar to a helicopter. The power system was a sealed energy device that provided electrical power and lift for the craft. It was very easy to fly and our pilots learned the system within days.

These may have operated on a different principle to the interstellar craft or even the intra-atmospheric craft. Do other members agree that this is what is implied?

Best, Bill

Originally posted by garyo1954
One last item. This from Michael Salla regarding communications, he says:

[ Michael Salla's comments ]

You knew this as well.
Given a forum for an unbiased and open discussion, How could you find these learned individuals opinions irrelelvant, when you trusted them implicitly?

But Gary......

I posted Michael Salla's comments myself!!!

Best, Bill

I still don't understand how it's been implied that Bill Ryan held back the team member info. It was speculated for a while about who was who, but not confirmed until (Dec 29?).

Anyway, regarding this:

It is based on extrapolations made from erroneous data. It had been thought that an Exoplanet was detected , then only considered to have been protuberances due to Zeta 2 's solar activity. In other words there is no known planet orbiting Zeta 2 that we could use to compare against the orbital data given for Serpo.

You've got to remember though, "Planet X" was detected back in 1984 or so, then forgotten about... then only recently has it been confirmed that there IS in fact another planet beyond Pluto. This is in our own solar system, so I wouldn't put too much faith in our current technology to say for sure whether or not there's a planet around Zeta 2.

Originally posted by Shawnna

Well stated, rdube02! Excellent way to get some folks around here to think about all of this a little differently. Of course, will they?

We shall see. May be helpful if you posted a link to some of the research that you're doing around this aspect of it.

Hi Shawnna,

I cannot see how you can support Rdube02's hypothesis yet vehemently attack and throw mud on the unblemished name of Bill Ryan (thus far, fingers crossed for you Bill), both as yet are works of fiction until proven.

Supposing, supposing three men were frozen; how many died? Answer = none, we're only supposing!

Seriously Shawnna, i admire your determination to get to the bottom of whether SERPO is a hoax or not, but can I suggest that you do yourself an injustice by going full flow into a diatribe about a hypothetical post.

It is quite evident that you possess great investigative skills, I just wish that you would think more on jumping at everything anti-SERPO and anti-CoS (Bill Ryan) thread you find and then having to pubicly apologise to Bill; you can only be seen to be mistaken so often before it's noted that you may be pushing a rather obvious agenda. (GLP)

Best Wishes

J

her the serpo site has been updated with a new article...i have noticed that the articles have been coming up fast on the serpo site.

Originally posted by SKMDC1
That was my thought as well. I did a little Googling to find out when the Electon Microscop was invented...

So, that puts them at their infancy right at the time of Serpo. It's easy to imagine a military commander saying "scientific" instead of "electron". .. and indeed that may have been an alternate term for them at the time. And considering their size and power needs it's no wonder they wouldn't take one 38 light years.

Why take a relativity new electronic "Scientific Caculator" when the sliderule does the same even more?

As to the power needs, didn't they say that the ED's supplied all the power they needed?

you know, today. I realized! I'm tired of this! no substantiary evidence to prove its real! when were clearly ready! man, this is terrible! I'm so done with serpo for awhile...

anon, if you read this...give us something frickin more! because the info now..is meandering to the truth...and if you want people believe then this sure isn't how.

Victor's Interview

I found Victor's answer concerning the "confidentiality" of his list to be strange, considering the email addresses (and some names) of said list have been released. Why would he make such a claim (100% confidentiality) when it simply isn't true, and especially since he's apparently a self-confessed "PC n00b" (WebTV? lol) and likely wouldn't even know where to begin to learn about such issues as file encryption, data integrity and file security, let alone how to implement them??

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
QUESTION: It's membership is a veritable "Who's Who" of the UFO and parascience research scene of the past 30 years or more -- how was it that all these people came to be on board?

ANSWER: True, it is and I'm still amazed at not so much the number of people on it, but rather WHO is on it. A few prominent people in the UFO research and "black world" intell community came on board initially via referrals.

Some of them wanted their views known on some controversial issues, but did not want their names ascribed to what they had written, so they sent it to me asking me to stream it to my list in confidence and anonymously which I did without ever revealing the origin of the author. After I did that over and over, those individuals referred others of a like mindset to my list where ANYone could approach me and 100% confidentiality would be assured.

Given the release of the confidential information, does Victor still make the claim of "ANYone could approach me and 100% confidentiality would be assured." to new "Who's Who" folks that may be interested in joining his list?

Bill, your thoughts?

Better yet, Victor?

IMPORTANT INFORMATION REGARDING THIS THREAD


ATS Big Threads
New ATS Policy regarding very large threads.

I don’t get it…

People are blowing off this Time thing like it’s a non-issue…

A couple of months ago when it was first brought up there was some talk, some speculations, a lot of people had a lot of doubts about it…

I had a Lot of problems with it. But I decided to wait. Perhaps the ebens had some special magical biological spiritual super scientific totally unheard of or unimagined method for measuring Time.

Finally some new posts come out from anon.

I read them.

I flip out.

Are You Kidding Me?

They have a solar calendar. They measure Time with a sundial. Their concept of Time is based upon the velocity of their planet through space.

Their Concept of time is exactly the same as ours:

Velocity through Space = Time.

But whatever. Fine. The ebens are just so cool they don’t need a wrist watch in order to build an interstellar space craft, they do it by magic. (Which is a completely, totally, viable option, I have No Problems with magic)

Now comes our 12(13) member HUMAN crew from Gilligans Island.

After a while they decide to shave off all their hair and go native. They throw away any working timepieces they have left and start singing China Cat Sunflower in the town square.

Great.

Cool.

Far Out.

Only now 420 ain’t feelin’ so good…. he Thought the local herb would burn well, but something is wrong… he’s having a bad trip.

So the Human Doctor comes over, grabs 420s wrist, feels for a pulse, and then starts to whistle Dixie because the Doctor has no watch in order to take his patients pulse rate. (that’s the First thing they teach you in medical school, you know: If you are ever stranded in the middle of nowhere, throw away your wrist watch because you will Never need it to do your job)

They talk 420 down… some unknown time later the Geologist stumbles across a nifty mineral sample. He takes it and throws it into a bucket of water and observes the results. It just sits there for a while, then it starts to bubble, then it starts to twitch and shake, then it starts to radiate light, then it starts to sizzle, then *poof* it’s gone. But he has absolutely no idea whatsoever how long it took for the various reactions… His scientific report on the mineral reads: “Found nifty rock, throw it in water, makes groovy light show.”

Some unknown amount of time later, things are kinda spooky and the Team Leader decides to set up a security watch… “okay Rambo, just go out there and stand guard until somebody comes to relieve you… we’ll have a military style rotation of the guard so you don’t have to stand in the sweltering heat for too long. Good thing we threw our watches away, ey?”

Some unknown amount of time later, the situation is now Really Spooky, Rambo turns to the Cute Chick and says “If I’m not back in five minutes then send in the cavalry… um… wait a minute,,, er, hey! You! 420! Take a deep breath and hold it. Okay. If I’m not back before he passes out, send in the cavalry.”

*rolls eyes*

Am I the only one that sees the insanity in this??

I lived on a rock in Alaska for ten years where Time was every bit as messed up as it is claimed to be on serpo. A 365 day period for the lower 48 was only a 24 hour period for me (one long day that was summer, one long night that was winter) Summer salmon season lasted anywhere from 70 to 110 days (normal time, depending upon how the fish were spawning, it was just one long afternoon for us) Since salmon do not function on a 24 hour clock WE didn’t function on a 24 hour clock.

Nobody every said “Where Am I?” (we all knew we were in hell)

Everybody did say (constantly) “When Am I?” "What day is it?" "What Time Is It?"

We never knew. The sun was up. The clock said 10:30... um, is that A.M or P.M.? Didn’t matter. There was a job to do and we did it. We were every bit as disoriented as the Team.

We did Not throw our clocks away though. Not because we cared about what time it was in the lower 48, not because we needed to know when quitting time was (you’ll leave when I tell you you can leave) or when lunch time was (you’ll eat when we feed you) or any other mundane bullstuff. We needed clocks to Do Our Jobs. We needed clocks to calculate things like fish flow and freezer turn over and maintenance schedules.

So the ebens don’t need no stinkin’ watches to synthesize a polymer, glaze a ceramic, bake a loaf of bread, take a pulse rate. Good for them.

How did the human scientists, geologist, doctors, and security personnel do their jobs without one?

I keep reading “oh, serpo time not same as earth time” *rolls eyes*

Who cares what the Duration of the units are as long as the units are consistent? So what if the clocks were not in synch with serpo time? They were still pieces of scientific apparatus that ticked at a consistent rate and were capable of taking accurate measurements of observable phenomena.

It’s a Tool.

It works.

So I’m going to throw it away.

duyt calls
twj

Originally posted by rdube02
Imagine you are part of a group, who believes that the social consciousness is actually what creates our reality... Imagine that "reality" is the existance of alien beings.

A wonderful, creative (i.e., out of the box), and plausible theory.


So here's my question (and I guess my only real issue): Why not make the story as believable as possible? After all, the objective would be to convince as many people as possible.

Why insert information and data that contradicts existing data as well as itself?

Why present such fallible data for scrutiny?

Considering the numerous (verifiable) inconcistencies and contradictions, and after nearly 200 pages of disucssion, IMHO the most likely probable explanation is that the release of the Serpo story represents an act of coordinated disinformation, or as Michael Salla stated, "...a fictionized version of events."

Furthermore, IMHO, the "80/20" ration of truth/fiction is aboslutely meaningless. 80% of what? The words? The data? The gist of the story?

BTW, therein lies the value in the (some might say, "over") analysis of the data. We can speculate on intent and tonality all day, but empiracal data allows us to determine a) if certain elemets of the story are theoretically possible (e.g., an extraplanar N-body orbit in a binary system), and more importantly, b) which elements of the story are falsified, fabricated, or in the very least, incorrect.

Why is this valuable? For two reasons:

First, because once you have demonstrated multiple instances of the data's fallibility, you can safely determine that none of the data can be accepted at face value.

If none of the data can be accepted at face value, what are we left with? A story. A story, BTW (the existence of an alien exchange program), that I happen to accept as not only possible but very plausible.

Please, I ask others to pause, if just for a moment, to consider this.

If left with only a story, the details of the story are largely inconsequential. But to get there from here, we must first be able to demonstrate, beyond a reasonable doubt, that such consistencies and contradictions exist. Given the dynamic nature of this discussion, I personally happen to think we are in the process of transitioning between the two states.

However, as many of us have been working diligently on testing such data(myself included), and given that the continued identification of such inconsistencies serve to further validate the act of disregarding all the data, I ask for the extended courtesy of letting us complete the vetting process. Thank you.

Now, as to the second reason such analysis is valuable: By deteming that some of the data is erroneous, we may begin to see some solutions to Serpo (Serpolutions? Serlutions?) as more or less likely than others. For aforementioned reasons, it is my perosnal opinion this release (inclusive of all past and future posts by the Anon Tribe) most likely represents an act of disinformation.

The question, then, is to serve what purpose? There are, of course, several possible answers to this question, which I will leave to the reader to ponder. But remember this: There are many well-known indidivuals in the UFO community who have extensive backgrounds in science. IMHO, they are not he intended target of this effort.

Whoever is behind this effort has targeted an audience who deoesn't care so much about the details as they do the idea.

IMO, this is rather significant.

And for this very reason, while I do have the aforementioned issues with regards to rdube's theory, I think it is nonetheless plausible.

I also believe there may be other explanations which would serve a less dramatic prupose. There are organizations and individuals who would like nothing more than to push the pro-Disclosure agenda (I happen to be pro-Disclosure, BTW).

Bill, if I may, I have a question for you:

Are you aware of or in any way connected to or affiliated with the Project Starlight Coalition?


Thank you, as always, for taking the time to answer our questions.


Anyway, back to the chalkboard, so to speak, as I want to address the gravity issue in another post... (Yes, more research! Why? Because I like it. )




Edit: To fix out-of-control bold text

[edit on 2-2-2006 by sdrumrunner]

Originally posted by YYZZYY

Victor's Interview

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
Some of them wanted their views known on some controversial issues, but did not want their names ascribed to what they had written, so they sent it to me asking me to stream it to my list in confidence and anonymously which I did without ever revealing the origin of the author. After I did that over and over, those individuals referred others of a like mindset to my list where ANYone could approach me and 100% confidentiality would be assured.

Given the release of the confidential information, does Victor still make the claim of "ANYone could approach me and 100% confidentiality would be assured." to new "Who's Who" folks that may be interested in joining his list?

Hi, YYZZYY –

If you read what Victor wrote carefully, I think he was saying that if anyone wanted to post confidential information anonymously through him (Victor), 100% confidentiality would be assured.

Best, Bill

Thanks for the reply Bill.

Just so I'm clear, you're saying when Victor said "approach him", he meant someone could contact him outside of email (or other PC-related means), such as in-person, phone, etc, and then Victor would type the message(s) himself to the list?

If that's the case then it doesn't make much sense... those that contacted Victor with their message would have no way of reading their message (and others) unless they were a member of the list (and added their "confidential" name and email address)!

[edit on 2-2-2006 by YYZZYY]