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Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

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posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 03:20 AM
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I like this guy CasualOne, he gets my



Originally posted by CasualOne
Questions unanswered from my notes:

1. What is to be gained from SERPO and who stands to gain?
I learned early in life if you want answers you must follow the "money". If we follow the Pound, so to speak, who stands to gain: Mr. Collins and Mr. Doty from their book? I doubt it, someone would have found a link between them and SERPO by now but..............................





mod edit to remove excessive quote of a members post
please refrain from posting the one liners too.



[edit on 2-2-2006 by pantha]




posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 03:36 AM
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Disinformation Percentiles


Originally posted by Unplugged
In Ramblecast #9 (I think) at the 11:00 minute mark, you state that Bill Ryan "claims" to know that the Serpo information is "80% Fact - 20% False". You go on to say how wrong he is for "claiming" this as fact.
You must have missed Bill's post where he posted an e-mail he received from anonymous that gave the whole "80-20" info. -- So to say Bill Ryan is pulling these figures out of nowhere is wrong.

I address this point at time index 3:13 of this ramblecast. The labeling of the replies is sporked (there are two different “Reply 11's”) because of some upload issues I had.

I'm skeptical of the figure, but I don't think Bill necessarily claims it's a fact.

In his words:


Originally posted by Bill Ryan
1) There's an orchestrated attempt to provide real data mixed with fiction and confusion. This is standard disinformation. 80/20 seems to me to be about right. One-fifth of altered or injected nonsense is plenty enough to wreck an otherwise lucid, convincing and coherent account.

I don't dispute the 80/20 figure per se, because I don't know the actual percentages, but I do point out that any percentage of disinformation taints the source.

That's why I reject the use of such a figure in general, per the “pickle barrel” analogy.


Professing Beliefs


Originally posted by Unplugged
Also, at about the 14 minute mark on the same Ramblecast, you talked about a post by Bill where he states his current beliefs on the story.
You whent on to say "How does Bill KNOW this???? How does Bill down THAT??" in response to Bill's beliefs. -- Well, you must have missed the fact that Bill was stating his Beliefs on the matter, and that he wasnt claiming anything to be fact.

Granted, Bill was careful to label these as his current thoughts, and I didn't miss that.

Nonetheless, I think it's quite reasonable to question what the basis of these thoughts may be. The alternative is to assume he holds these opinions without any basis, which I doubt.

How does he know these things? Or at least, why are these his thoughts at the moment?

These are actually very important and pertinent questions – in my opinion, anyway.

And I could be wrong, of course.


What I Love To Hear


Originally posted by Unplugged
These two things stuck out of the Ramblecast most to me. Entertaining listen btw

Ooh, thanks!


Naughty Number Nine

In the clarification department, I think I didn't express myself the way I should have when I claimed that in Point #9 Bill was telling us the story is fiction.

That's my interpretation of the process he described, though the way I put it might make it sound like I'm saying Bill is literally telling us the Serpo story is fiction.

BUT, here's what he posted:


Originally posted by Bill Ryan
9) The material supplied is taken from an audio transcript of the real thing and subsequently retyped. After that, the material may be being further tweaked or doctored to meet the above ends. The result is a lot of errors, some accidental (which Anon et al are perfectly aware of, and have not corrected) and some deliberate.

Note that Bill plainly stated that the origin of the “material supplied is taken from an audio transcript of the real thing.”

So he's saying it's based on the “real thing” but “tweaked or doctored”.

My point is that the modification turns the material into a work of fiction, regardless of the original source.

I would offer a humorous example of what a mere 20% change in a true story can do to make it into fiction, but Bill himself acknowledges that this is precisely what can be done.

As always, I encourage Bill or any member to correct where I'm wrong, because I am often wrong.



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 03:37 AM
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Originally posted by shadow watcher
For those of you who have friends/influence in the ufo community, why can't we get an interview with Victor for ATS?

Done.


QUESTION: Can you tell us a little about yourself -- how long you have been interested in UFOs and actively engaged with the UFO community? What do you do when you're not running the UFO Thread List? Bill mentioned that you also run a political list? What's this?

ANSWER: I've been interested in UFOs since about age 16, or 34 years ago, when I first started seriously questioning the beliefs I had been ingrained with as a Catholic. I used whatever money I had from my paper route to purchase books on the subject of UFOs; one of my very first was John Keel's "Our Haunted Planet," of which I have the original edition. I also checked out many books from the local public library since I couldn't afford to buy all of the ones I wanted.

Now all of that was in the early '70s. I didn't become actively engaged in the UFO community until I actually got online on or about 1997 and even then, I was just Web surfing for articles on the subject. To this day, I've never been a member of any clubs, organizations, discussion forums, online discussion groups, or participated in chat rooms, etc.

Instead, I would forward copies about UFOs to a very small group of friends who would in turn refer others to me. Years later, it snowballed into what it is today: One of the most influential UFO thread lists in the country loaded with a "who's who" of Ufology and consisting of former and current USG "black world" ops.

Because not everyone is going to be interested in the subject of UFOs, the paranormal and other New Age topics, I also maintain a current affairs topics list. Actually, it would be more accurate to state that the current affairs/political stream list came FIRST and the UFO Thread List was born out of that with those people wanting ONLY that information though there are some which receive postings from BOTH lists.

I presently have approx 900 on my current affairs stream list and 220 on my UFO Thread List.

When I'm not streaming articles about either of these topics, I'm a substitute teacher for various school districts as well as being a tutor, a "reader" and an editor for various authors.

QUESTION: How long have you been running your UFO list? How did it begin?

ANSWER: I've been running my UFO Thread List since about March 2001 which was born out of my current affairs list. Many recipients didn't want the generally bad news items sent them that they could obtain from TV and newspapers; news stories about UFOs and related subjects were much more difficult to come by in the mainstream press, so many suggested that I stream articles ONLY about those topics, so that gave me the idea of starting a UFO stream list only.

QUESTION: It's membership is a veritable "Who's Who" of the UFO and parascience research scene of the past 30 years or more -- how was it that all these people came to be on board?

ANSWER: True, it is and I'm still amazed at not so much the number of people on it, but rather WHO is on it. A few prominent people in the UFO research and "black world" intell community came on board initially via referrals.

Some of them wanted their views known on some controversial issues, but did not want their names ascribed to what they had written, so they sent it to me asking me to stream it to my list in confidence and anonymously which I did without ever revealing the origin of the author. After I did that over and over, those individuals referred others of a like mindset to my list where ANYone could approach me and 100% confidentiality would be assured.

Whether one is an online, print or broadcast media journalist, CREDIBILITY is one's single most valuable currency, so that is what's led to so many joining my UFO Thread List and my receiving so many referrals over the years.

My coup de grace was when ANONYMOUS approached me for the incredible "Project SERPO" postings; he's on my stream list, but I've never revealed his ID nor any hints of WHO he really is.

QUESTION: How long had the list been running before the "Project SERPO" material first came to your attention -- what was the sequence of events leading up to and following this?

ANSWER: My UFO Thread List was running since about March 2001. Nothing out of the ordinary had occurred prior to my first being contacted by ANONYMOUS on 11-1-05 with an incredible tale to tell, though he had been monitoring my e-mail streams for about six (6) months prior to officially contacting me. Once he started posting through me, my list grew exponentially and, after every new posting, grows with many new "add me's."

QUESTION: Do you know who ANONYMOUS is? [Of course I'm not expecting you to tell me WHO it is!] I imagine that numerous educated guesses have been made.

ANSWER: Correct: Many educated guesses have been made, but I have NEVER tried personally to find out and here's why: I was always more interested in the INFORMATION he was supplying rather than who he was. Also, if word ever got back to him that I was trying to ID him, he would simply have packed up his bags and found another UFO list moderator to release his incredible story through.

QUESTION: Do you discuss UFO or "Project SERPO" material with any of your list members like with military or intelligence backgrounds? Do you get the sense that they are just as puzzled and intrigued by the subject as the rest of us? Do you think the "truth" really does lie somewhere within the labyrinthine halls of government?

ANSWER: Yes. In fact, I do discuss the "Project SERPO" material privately with many members of the intell and scientific community and while they found it hard to believe at first, they have found/located others in the "know" who have told them that, in fact, such a program really did take place. It's difficult to discuss it with the few members of the general public who are on my list since they don't have the necessary connections and prior knowledge to verify any of the material.

However, the intell ops on my list are just as baffled as to WHY this material is being released now and what exactly it is finally building up to and HOW it is finally going to be laid out in the "final curtain call."

QUESTION: Do you have a gut feeling about the "Project SERPO" material? Given the past adoption of UFOs for use by the intelligence services, it seems difficult to exclude the possibility that this is, or was, part of a disinformation project. Again, have any of your insiders shed any light on this?

ANSWER: At this point, I have so much confirmation that such a human-ET exchange program project DID take place, that I'm not now presently entertaining the possibility that it's part of a grand USG disinformation campaign.

Some of the actual details like of whether it was all men who went or 10 men and two women may be muddied, BUT the overall core story is true and correct: That there was an exchange program which took place between 1965 -1978 in which 12 U.S. military service people went to live on an alien home world for approx 13 years on a planet 38.42 light years away.

The CORE STORY is intact.

[Personally I've found the suggestion that the SERPO documents are actually real, but were generated some time in the past as dis- or misinformation, to be the most satisfactory version I've heard so far. The Alice Bradley Sheldon story is most interesting, and I've put feelers out into the serious Sci-Fi community for more biographical information about her.]

COMMENT: And if "Project SERPO" is based on Alice Sheldon's sci-fi writings, I hope someone will let me know ASAP!

QUESTION: Do you sense that there's an upsurge in interest in the UFO subject again, after a few fallow years?

ANSWER: Yes, there has been a sort of “malaise" over the UFO community for a while since the sensational revelations of Bob Lazar and then the MJ-12 documents before that, but there's a renewed interest with the "Project SERPO" disclosures and those of former Canadian Defense Prime Minister Paul Hellyer; without a doubt, these are the two (2) hottest topics in the UFO field.

Many thought that the Dan Burisch story would be huge as well, but it turned out to be nothing but a simple hoax, though it did acquire a fanatical, cult-like following which remains small, but vocal and obsessed with Dan to this day.

Victor Martinez, 1st February 2006



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 04:04 AM
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The Postman Always Rings Twice

Bill, thanks for sharing the Victor Martinez interview, which helps to clarify his role in all this.

The additional information offers some intriguing pieces of the puzzle surrounding this whole process.



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 04:19 AM
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From new post: 14 on Serpo.org

Team Commander 102 .
Assistant Team Commander 203 .
Team Pilot #1 225
Team Pilot #2 308
Linguist #1 420 .
Linguist #2 475 .
Biologist 518 .
Scientist #1 633 .
Scientist #2 661 .
Doctor #1 700 .
Doctor #2 754 .
Security 899.

Posting Eleven

DAY 1 : 102 sitting next to me and he is faint


Who is writing this entry?

Posting Thirteen (a)

I organize the teams102 will remain with 225.


Then later:

..I team up with 225. We walk to a large open door building



So team commander is not writing this either?

This means we are reading someone else’s entry
So who is in charge? I find it unlikely that TC would speak about himself in this way especially post 13(a). So who is writing and who is giving the orders?

This does not make sense to me. TC should be giving the orders and in command, but it seems that the writer/speaker of the journals is in charge.

Who is writing the journals? Most probably it would be Assistant Team Commander.

Bill

Either yourself or via Victor, can you relay a question to Anon? Which team member is writing the journals? It should give an indication of which journal Anon is relaying the info from? I mean in the report that Anon is using, he should easily be able to tell us which member journal he is reading and give us this snippet of info in his next post.

maybe just confirm that ATC is writing the journals?





[edit on 2-2-2006 by celticniall]



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 04:57 AM
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On Core


Originally posted by Bill Ryan
The CORE STORY is intact.

This is something both yourself and Mr. Martinez are claiming, which goes beyond the realm of passing along information into endorsement.

Can you or Victor offer any specific information that would help corroborate or explain why you both consider the core story to be factual?





Edit: Braille alternative: A 205-second-long audio version of this question (and why I'm asking it) in podcast form for those two or three people following my interminable podcast commentary on the Project Serpo story.


'Nother edit: Shortened the question to make it less involved.

[edit on 2/2/2006 by Majic]



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 05:48 AM
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Hello


Wow ! The correlation of the Lonni Zamora and the Serpo craft landing is absolutely awesome. Same day, same place. Congrats makaveli27 for finding this
(one vote for you
).

Bill, what do you think about that ? To me it looks like a very BIG consistency. It should definitively be added to the Serpo site.



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 06:16 AM
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Please correct me if I'm wrong but a few years ago I believe the a group of scientist suggested that the whole world to change the way that we keep time and change the standard hour from 60 minutes to 100 minutes and the 24 hour day to some like 60 or was it 100 hour day, Not by saying the day would be longer but that the day could be divided more easily for space travel? (I have made a quick search on google but can’t find it.) then would also mean that aliens would use something that would suit then
by their standards of understanding physics which would be like "alien" to us

[edit on 2-2-2006 by dragoonrider1999]

[edit on 2-2-2006 by dragoonrider1999]



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 08:03 AM
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yawwwwwwwwwwn


so, let's see, roughly 5 new pages. not even bothering to read them. lemme guess. one or two new members have joined to say this is all really incredible etc. we're still rehashing the same garbage, the number of crew members is still unresolved, no pictures, no nada.

and Bill, I think an interview with Victor might be better handled by members submitting questions to a moderator who asks bill via either instant messenger or telephone.

I say this because, given enough time, anyone can answer the more difficult questions that might pop up and, to be totally honest, nobody really knows anyone's level of involvement.

I'll read along at this point but for days now nothing has happened and while it has been fun seeing the new members come stroke the thread, I'm getting busy with more important things, like watching the hairs on my toes grow.



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by Musclor
Wow ! The correlation of the Lonni Zamora and the Serpo craft landing is absolutely awesome. Same day, same place. Congrats makaveli27 for finding this


Valhall first mentioned this on the 2nd December last year, and was followed up by Boogie the next day. There have been some other posts also referring to it.

With a thread this long it's hardly surprising things get missed and brought up again.



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by Crakeur
yawwwwwwwwwwn



Crakeur you got me doing it now!

But you are right. Nothing new, exciting, earth moving, or in the least eye opening (yawwwwwwwwwwwwn again) has happened.

I agree the interview with Victor was nice yada yada yada.......
Add nothing though.

I'm for closing shop at 200 pages. I'll sweep the floors if SO gets a go. Everywhere I looked last night the story was being written off.

In his UFO blog Paul Kimball (redstarfilms.blogspot.com...) put it right up there with Prophet Yahweh at #5. He says:

"Now, there are those who might think that, sure, this is fake, but it's disinformation, designed to distract ufologists, and throw them off the scent.

Nope. In my opinion, it's just a scam. There is real disinformation out there, about all sorts of things, but none of it is this clumsy and obvious."

Admin at the below site says the post here was closed on 20 January. (I didn't know that)

lucianarchy.proboards21.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">here

(I already U2U'ed our member lucianarchy asking if he was the admin there.)

So, with no concrete prove and self-inflating tires (80/20) there is no end in sight. We need a set page, day, time so everyone here can take their best shot, or produce their best evidence.

I thinks that fair.

(my bad)

[edit on 2-2-2006 by garyo1954]



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 08:56 AM
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Quote from Bill Ryan:
4) At some point we'll get photos, but they too will be subject to as much dispute as the text (for exactly the same reasons).

I agree 100%......Many of us have been saying this for some time.

It's just like NextLevel said in his great post:
Pictures, even supposed authentic ones, would serve to do no more than allow belief for a short period of time until the disbelief campaign and mis/dis/anti-information machine had a chance to warm up.



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 08:59 AM
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ok, for those who are interested, here's some data calculated from the findings from the zamora sighting.=:

www.temporaldoorway.com...

does this correlate to anything we aleady know about the 'eben' craft?



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by celticniall
Who is writing the journals? Most probably it would be Assistant Team Commander.

Either yourself or via Victor, can you relay a question to Anon? Which team member is writing the journals?

Hi, Niall –

I agree that if the ATC were writing at least parts of the journals (not at all unlikely, especially if "102 was feeling faint", which is a good clue), this would explain all. It's the only reason why Anon would have clarified the team member list as he did – unless it was more deliberate confusion. At first I was alarmed at the obvious discrepancy (more cognitive dissonance!), but can see how it could still all fit.

Anon's style is to make statements as he chooses... or not. He clarified some of Victor's questions, but completely ignored others. I have no easy way to get questions answered. If I ever sat down with him and bought him a beer (unless I found I was buying a round for a dozen people!
) I'd have about fifty questions to ask him... at least.

Best, Bill



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 09:27 AM
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Please allow me to introduce myself
I’m a man of wealth and taste
I’ve been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man’s soul and faith

Hope you guess my name
But what’s puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

I rode a tank
Held a general’s rank

Hope you guess my name
But what’s puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made
I shouted out,
Who killed the kennedys?
When after all
It was you and me
Let me please introduce myself
I’m a man of wealth and taste

Hope you guess my name
But what’s puzzling you
Is the nature of my game


;0 ;0 ;0



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by ScaRZ
Pictures, even supposed authentic ones, would serve to do no more than allow belief for a short period of time until the disbelief campaign and mis/dis/anti-information machine had a chance to warm up.


As far as I, myself, am concerned, not at all. It's not about the pics themselves, it's about the gesture. They're asking me to believe without proof, proof that they promised us a while back. This threads going on 196 pages now. They've had plenty of time and plenty of support from ATS members. It's time to step up to the plate and mash one.

Besides, if the pictures are genuine there should be nothing to worry about.

Peace



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 09:51 AM
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On Earth we have two basic types of calendars. A Solar calendar, and a Lunar calendar.

Both calendars were invented thousands of years ago. Both are still in use today by various cultures. For example, the Jewish culture combines Solar and Lunar events in order to tell time:

www.jewfaq.org...

The Islamic calendar is purely Lunar:

webexhibits.org...

Most of us here use the Gregorian calendar, which is purely Solar:

en.wikipedia.org...

An in depth description of these (and others, such as the Chinese and Indian calendars) can be found here:

charon.nmsu.edu...

ALL of these calendars function on the exact same principal: The movement of one body around another.

This is THE fundamental baseline of our understanding of Time: The movement of a body through space.

The three basic units of motion that we use to measure time are:

1) The rotation of the Earth around its axis.
2) The orbit of the Moon around the Earth.
3) The orbit of the Earth/Moon system around our Sun.

The three basic units of motion generate the three basic units of Time. (Day, Month, Year)

That’s all fine and dandy, but what do we do if we need to talk about or measure things that take less than a day?? The “day” needs to be divided into smaller units.

Since all the basic units of motion are circular, THOUSANDS of years ago people divided the circle into smaller parts in order to have smaller units of time to use during the day.

A circle has 360 degrees of arc.

60, 24 and 12 are all fractions of 360.

(For those of you who didn’t catch the significance of the above sentence, 60, 24 and 12 are pretty basic time units)


We call it an “hour” but what we are really saying is that the surface of our planet has moved through 15 degrees of arc around it’s axis. (360 / 24 = 15)

We call it a “month” but what we are really saying is that our Moon has moved through 360 degrees of arc around our planet (Lunar calendar) OR that our planet has moved through 30 degrees of arc around our Sun (Solar calendar)

We call it a “year” but what we are really saying is that our planet has moved through 360 degrees of arc around our Sun.

Very “primitive” people developed this system for measuring Time thousands of years ago.

It is both incredibly magical and fascinating, but at the same time an incredibly simple concept.

So, I’m reading the log entries on the serpo site, I get to the part where they describe a tall tower with a reflector on top of it. On the ground surrounding the tower is circle with symbols on it. The reflector on top of the tower sends a beam of light down to ground with the circle and symbols…

I roll my eyes.

I mumble “are you Kidding me??” a few times.

I refill my coffee cup.

I roll my eyes again.

They have a Solar calendar with 360 degree arc of Time.

They measure Time EXACTLY like we do.

At Zero Degrees of arc they end their rest period.

By 15 Degrees of arc Mom has the kids off to school and Dad is on his way to work at the green house.

At 60 Degrees of arc Dad comes home for a quickie while the kids have lunch at school.

At 105 Degrees of arc the kids come home from school.

At 135 Degrees of arc Dad comes home from a hard day at the green house (something about some pesky aliens not wearing their hair nets)

At 150 Degrees of arc Mom, Dad, and the kids have dinner.

At 180 Degrees of arc the whole family heads out to watch the soccer match.

By 210 Degrees of arc the kids are in their meditation chambers.

At 225 Degrees of arc Mom and Dad decided to go for a romantic stroll beneath the one sun…

At 240 Degrees of arc Mom and Dad decide to have another quickie in that “special spot” behind the sand dunes.

By 255 Degrees of arc Mom and Dad are back in their meditation chambers…



But the ebens don’t understand “our” Time. *rolls eyes*

The ebens don’t manufacture a simple wind up device that simulates the motion of their path through space so that they can tell the time Inside a building or in a deep dark hole or on a cloudy day, or for scientific purposes, or, Most Importantly, (and THE sole reason accurate clocks were developed here on Earth) for Navigation.

Yes, 15 degrees of arc on Serpo will not be of the same duration as 15 degrees of arc here on Earth…


But it’s the same concept, and is the concept really That Hard to grasp???

duty calls
twj


[edit on 2-2-2006 by torbjon]



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 09:55 AM
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The second is the duration of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium-133 atom.
Second


A nice definition if I say so. It also allows us a universal and galatic reference that all creatures, races and dimensions could conceivably reference if they have the element known as Cesium. Think of it perhaps as the Ultimate "On my mark sync your watches" approach.

Anyhow, that's my .02 on the time subject. What baffles me is that I cannot be expected to be smarter than the collective group of scientists that launched the so-called Serpo-nauts to their home away from home, can I? Certainly they could have identified the concepts herein?

Lastly, the issue regarding the entire 10 or 13 year thing. Well, time reference again is key here in that so many seconds passed on each planet (Earth/Serpo) during the 'mission length'. However, traveling at or near or in excess of the speed of light does wonderful things for time dialation. I just wonder who can fit these pieces together, if they do fit?

[edit on 2-2-2006 by NextLevel]



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 09:59 AM
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So far, I've been the good guy, the bad guy, the accused, the accuser, and everything in between.

This board has put a lot of time, energy, intellectual property (and some emotional involvement) into this project. No doubt, some of what we have said is being discussed behind the scenes.

But 80/20 true eliminates any possible conclusion.

The logs are attachments.
The crew determination is up for grabs.
The physics don't work.

This is critical to continueing

Bill,

Didn't you e-mail Jack Sarfatti after you had breakfast with him telling him that SERPO was 38.43 light years away?

And wasn't Jack's reply:

OK that means for a 9-month trip (ship time) Gamma = 1/(1 - (v/c)^2)^1/2 ~ (38.43)/(3/4) ~ 51 time dilation factor. Basically they are going very close to speed of light relative to Earth and from their POV ~ 40 light years Lorentz contracts by a factor ~ 50 so their actual distance in their proper frame is only ~ 9 light months going and what they said 13 months back (I will not adjust the numbers - exact figures don't matter - only qualitative idea of a BIG TIME DILATION FACTOR.

For round trip, if they did not use geodesic warp drive without any time dilation as in Alcubierre's toy model, if they used conventional non-geodesic propulsion - with enormous energy needed, then if say they took say about 2 years of their time to make the trip backwards and forwards Earth to Serpo, then ~ 100 years of Earth time would pass before they got back. If they left in 1965 they could not get back here until ~ 2065! (actually later than that but exact numbers don't matter). No cheap way out of this like Richard Hoagland suggested. No physicist will buy that one.
Therefore, the SERPO disinformation is inconsistent with GLOBAL SPECIAL RELATIVITY though not with General Relativity necessarily - though they do not give enough information.

"A nice dilemma we have here.
That calls for all our wit" Trial by Jury ?
"Quiet calm deliberation disentangles every knot" Gondoliers
"A paradox, a paradox, a most unusual paradox" Pirates of Penzance
What is happening is not only weirder than we imagine, it is weirder than most humans CAN imagine."

About 100 years would pass on Earth?
No physicist would buy that one?
To disentagle a knot is to create a new knot, right?
So how about some straight answers Bill?

Why would you NOT share this from a physicist you respect?
Yes, it was relevant. You thought it was relevant enough to ask Jack.
But it appears when his answers didn't support the possibility it wasn't relevant enough be told.

Show both hands Bill.



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by garyo1954
Bill,

Didn't you e-mail Jack Sarfatti after you had breakfast with him telling him that SERPO was 38.43 light years away?

Hi, Gary –

Yes, I did. His view is that a journey like that shouldn't take nine months (or seven) – it should actually take no time at all.

There are relativistic questions whether time dilation would be a factor in superluminary (faster than light) travel. Einstein only described effects when approaching the speed of light. He had nothing to say about faster than light motion. But those are questions for better mathematical physicists than you and me to wrestle with.

Sarfatti is a bright guy, but if you've been reading his e-mails you'll also know that many people (including authorities such as Hal Puthoff, who is widely respected and also immensely bright) disagree with his premises on many issues. The truth is that these areas are so cutting-edge that no-one really knows right now.

Puthoff sees no theoretical problem with travel to Serpo, btw, and neither do many other physicists. One such is Burkhard Heim, who recently published a paper in which the calculated time taken to travel 40 light years almost exactly coincides with Anon's statement.

www.newscientistspace.com...

This was discussed on the forum earlier, but you may have missed that.

Regarding my correspondence with others, since November I've sent and received some four thousand (4,000) e-mails, and if I were to publish them all – even assuming the correspondents would give their consent, which is rather unlikely – this thread would swell to over 1,000 pages.

By the way, I didn't "ask Sarfatti" – he initiated the exchange by asking me how far Serpo was away from Earth. So I told him. Then he responded.

Gary, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Do be sure of your grounds, and do full research rather than partial research, before you end up looking foolish. I give this to you as genuinely friendly advice. One or two others here have fallen into that trap – although it's understandable, because there's a lot of research to be done – and usually end up looking a little silly. The moral of the story is: do ask me or check with me for context before taking up half an issue and jumping to conclusions. You will always find me forthcoming.

But I do need to ask: did you obtain Sarfatti's permission to post his private correspondence? I'm sure he wouldn't mind in this instance, and neither do I, but you should be aware that violating others' privacy without consent has got others summarily banned from ATS – a decision of the moderators, not of anyone else.

Best, Bill

[edit on 2-2-2006 by Bill Ryan]

[edit on 2-2-2006 by Bill Ryan]



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