To presume is to deny self truths. I cannot believe how much arrogance I still see on this site at times. I say this because I love y'all enough to take the time to share a personally realized truth I live by. can't you guys see that to speculate, WHICH IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING, is to spread ignorance. If any of you KNEW GOD or his LACK OF EXISTENCE (depending on YOUR opinion) why would you feel the necessity to push your ideas onto another? You can impress advice upon another by justifying your inner lies and imaginings to yourself, or you do it in that you believe in yourself so much as to walk with faith in your idea/s, you wouldn't need me to tell you what presumption and assertion were/are. God is/isn't
real to me not out of choice pick, but a deeper spiritual awakening.
NEVER ATTACK ANOTHER'S FAITH OR FAITH SYSTEM IF THEY DON'T WANT THAT WHICH YOU WANT. To deny God is to fear your own notions of him/her/child. Make your detiny your own.

The world and will, as I have to learn to lie in the bed that THEY made not you. Persons cannot really recall events but could cut
the ascribed emotions that they wish to feel not you. You are a fellow traveller in this land. North American lifestyle is the anomoly
to the world whom actually work harder out of

I see joy as children becoming. Maybe I am my father as that is partially trusting the outcomes I know by the voices I hear. Heehe! Just kidding, Anyway, it is you RIGHT to feel any way that one wants. I am untouchable and before you attacked me either would make sure that something was solid enough to hold on. I don't like the false authorities as they compose more imagined ignorance than is fair to embarass them by.

Here's one for the atheists.
You are here trying to prove that God doesn't exist. Well, I believe with complete and utter certainty that He does exist.
Yet I believe that YOU atheists don't exist. How are you going to prove to me that you exist?

Answer: You can't. Every bit of proof that you show me could be construed as a lie.
Therefore by using your own logic, I'm afraid quite a few of you guys don't actually exist!!!

hmmm you do not understand you’re like the person who never tried something and claims he or she understands it.

The matter is not as simple as you think, too many records of history match up with respect to times in which those same cultures had no contact or very little contact.

How many cultures claim to have had a prophet come back from the dead?

When in time were these events recorded?

Getting back to the issue of mutations, which are in step with punctuated equilibrium and as a result were labeled as prophets in the past.

The capacities presented with respect to history (miracles) do represent acts resulting from a more specific orientation to the inherent interconnectedness, which exist (inherently) with respect to matter.

Essentially hmmm, the difference between you and me is that you feel history was written by fools, I disagree.

And while you suggest you happen to know that people who were incompetent to prepared the information suggested in history, what evidence exactly do you have???

My evidence is my own upbringing and how I have been able to apply those lessons to very real problems in my very real life.

I was not taught Ninjitsu in a dojo Hmmm but rather in a Lair (Japan), I was also instructed in the ways of a Nagual (Tolteca Nagual).

To be specific, I understand Chi like you understand how to drive a car.

So while you may see your atheist perspective as elitist from what I understand it’s simply a hope. One, which I do understand in respect to many of the issues presented in history, but not history specifically related to me.

Feel free to review my blog


Any thoughts?





[Edited on 23-9-2003 by Toltec]

So Niels Bohr, Werner Weisenberg, John Wheeler, Albert Einstein, David Bohm, Karl Pribram, Friedrich Nietzsche, Karl Lashley, Ronald Pearson, Charles Tart, Russel Targ, Robert Jahn are maybe pseudo scientists then???

Sounds silly huh??? And in YOUR opinion it's a fairy tale. I'm not twisting anything, on the other hand, YOU ARE!!!. I didn't accuse you anytime of thinking all believers are idiots. You're lying.

I'm just showing you what scientists are discovering these days. That on a deeper level we are all connected in some way. Einstein was bugging Bohm about this, telling him quantum physics was incomplete. So he did more research and experiments on the subject and came up with the holographic theory. At the same time, independent of him and without his knowledge, Karl Pribram came with the holographic brain theory. The two theories had so much in common that they could be fit into one, and they're backed up by different scientific research as you can see in that link.

Did you even read the links I posted??? Because those were just quotes I put. Or are you judging the scientist by some quotes??? It seems to me like you aren't even interested in reading the material, then to come up with "oh, they're maybe pseudo scientists".

And it seems to me that that circular argument thing you came up with against Toltec and me is just a line of defense, isn't it???

Am I doing the twist right now???

Originally posted by Satyr
Done here. My life has suddenly gotten a bit too busy for this circular, manipulative, antilogic. Buh bye.

What a crybaby. You can't win so you run away and leave an insult.
It's upsetting when you believe that you are totally right but you can't prove that you are isn't it?

Touche

Originally posted by AnarchistSuperstar
Gods dont exist, we know this through logic.
The fact that we do not know everything is irrelevent, since no one needs to be omniscient to know that 2+2=4. It is an illogical characteristic that nothing can possess.

Can a deity make a rock bigger than it can lift?
If so, it cannot lift it. If it cannot lift it, it is not omnipotent. If it cannot make a rock bigger than it can lift, it is not omnipotent because it cannot create a rock it can't lift.

Through this simple use of logic, we know everything is bound by the laws of logic.

Actually the human mind is bound by the laws of logic.
Not EVERYTHING.
If everything were bound by the laws of logic, than there would be no questions, there would be no mysteries.
And to be totally honest, even the human mind is only bound by logic if we force it to be.
Think outside the box.

Prove yourself son. (We all know there are no universal truths absolute) No offense but your truth, truth being self established support of opinion to close a subject in your mind, is so long, unsupported by anything other than speculation or perrsonal observations. (2=2+4? c'mon you are comparing divinity to arithmetic) Besides your statement while catching attention is very
argumentative. Faiths of different origins have segregated humans from eachother for too long, thus ignorance is multiplied.
God or no God is an unknowable variable as it comes from somewhere in the mind rife with absolutes and infinites. Why wuld a person produce a statement that everyone knows can not ever in this place as such be won in argument. You have added to ignorance-a perpetual emotion machine.

You really either want to start debate with the emotionally insecure, cause defense by those who choose belief, cleverly wasnt to screen believers from non, or had nothing better to do. I could digress but fractions are the bigger of the small. Why, I wonder, do some here on this site who choose to pursue freedom from ignorance blame everyone but themselves who choose not to learn and listen from others? Illumination is considered enemy territory by many not just here on ATS but elsewhere as well. Yet it is referring to seeing the light or enlightenment. Should a person who has a bad exerience with a science teacher decide by their truth or myght and measure of it to believe that science is bad as a topical? One must separate ego from wisdom to find their truth.

Many of you have heard the story of Grandma's Ham?

It seems that two young newlyweds were preparing to enjoy their first baked ham dinner in their new apartment. After unwrapping the meat and setting it on the cutting board, the wife chopped off both ends of the ham with a butcher knife, tossing the two small ends in the garbage can. "Wait a minute," said the mystified husband. "Why did you do that? Why did you just cut off the ends of the ham like that?"

"I don't know. My mother always did," answered the wife. "Maybe it helps bring out the flavor." Unsatisfied with this answer, the husband called his mother-in-law. "Can you tell me why you cut the two ends off a ham before you cook it?"

"Well," said the mother, "I'm not really sure why. That's just the way my mother did her ham, and it was always delicious."

As soon as he hung up he called his wife's grandmother. "Grandma, we have an important question for you. Can you tell us why you cut the ends off a ham before you cook it?"

"Oh my yes, dear," answered Grandma in her quiet, thin voice. "I cut the ends of the ham off so it would fit in my pan."

This is how tradition (religion especially) survives....mostly through ignorance and not questioning the reasons behind the philosophy.

God lives outside our space and time and your silly logic. God can do anything he so chooses. Who are we to think we know everything there is about God or His creation using logic or science? We don't even use all our brain capacity for Pete sake. You can't use logic or science to debunk someones Faith, if its strong enough, in his or her God.

Sometimes there are people you can't reason with. Mainly because they see reason (from others never themselves) as opinion which is based off of a personal cause and not fact. Therefore if it is not fact then it cannot be true and must be dismissed as a "tainted" idea. Or so their reason tells them, see the catch 22?


[Edited on 29-9-2003 by Cearbhall]

God has to be the embodiment of everything good and evil in order to be who you say he is ( my Theory )

if you read the bible or biblical stories you know what I'm talking about.

Back to the main subject.

Even science cannot prove that God doesn't exist.

=== If God cannot be proven not to exist, then he has the possiblity of existing.

If you can prove to me that god himself doesn't exist then now you have my attention.

Remember= man can make up all the theories and all the facts it wants, but only the universe can make them law.

So if you want to prove that god doesn't exist, go out throughout the universe and scan every corner of the known and unknown universe with a digital camera (don't want a picture of the all mighty looking like a smudge). If you do this and can't find him, then I will believe you.

If your not up to it, then you got nothing better to do then to bitch at ATS.

God must work within the bounds of science. If God created the earth, then he created the laws of nature. We must then assume the following:

God cannot violate his own laws, or he would cease to be God. A miracle is only that which cannot be explained according to current understanding. It does not mean that it defies understanding, or cannot be explained.

The universe is so completely intricate, how can there not be a God? Consider this:

The universe is 13.2 billion light years across.
Within this universe are clusters of galaxies.
Within one of these countless number of clusters lies the Milkyway.
Within the Milkyway, is our sun, and our solar system.
Within this solar system lies our Earth.
On this planet somewhere, you are sitting at your computer, clicking with your mouse.
The eyes you are using to read this useless post with, are made of organic, carbon-based tissue.
Within this tissue are molecules.
Within these molecules are Atoms.
Within these Atoms are protons and electrons.
Within these are the smallest known bits of matter called quarks.

Did all these puzzle pieces just randomly fall together? Did it just happen alone? If you take a 1 trillion piece jugsaw puzzle and dump it out, what are the odds that it will fall into place exactly, without having to be assembled?

The odds are quite infinitesimal, I assure you.

Excellent post, my thoughts exactly!

Originally posted by lonestar
Did all these puzzle pieces just randomly fall together? Did it just happen alone? If you take a 1 trillion piece jugsaw puzzle and dump it out, what are the odds that it will fall into place exactly, without having to be assembled?

The odds are quite infinitesimal, I assure you.

The big question you fail to ask yourself is;
Were any of these pieces ever apart in the first place? The worst logic I still see with this creator theory is that someone or something had to create everything, but no one had to create the creator! That's not logic at all. It's ignorance. If you believe in creationism, you have to go all the way with it. You can't stop at "god" and just say he's the beginning. Someone also had to create him! If he's infinite and always existed, then why can't the universe also be infinite and always have existed? No reason at all! After all, a "god" would be even more complex than the universe, would it not? How can you say something that complex would require no creator, but yet the universe does??? The contents are constantly changing, just as every atom, molecule, quark...and even smaller particles. Absolutely nothing is stationary. The entire universe (and beyond) is perpetual motion. There's no need for a creator.

God is the Universe, God is Us. (My theory)

Well i always liked this post just felt like bringing it back for ats agian