The Conspiracy of the 'other' Gospel

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
--Revelation 20:13-14 KJV
The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and all were judged according to their works. Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. (This is the second death-the lake of fire.)
--Revelation 20:13-14 ISV







Oh My,,, You did all that work and the last 2 verse Tells what I had said to you in my thread,,,

Hades is were Jesus went when he Died on the cross and wile he was there he Preach his truth to the souls that was there waiting foe the last Judgment...


And the last two Verses You put down is what happens after the 1000 year reign of Jesus on earth and after he let Satan lose for a short time ( For a season ) and for this will be the last battle against Good and Evil and the judgement is for ever and there is no more Evil or hate left nowhere for ever....

Originally posted by jfdarby
Oh My,,, You did all that work and the last 2 verse Tells what I had said to you in my thread,,,

No, dear jfdarby--that's not what you said.
You said:

No, Hell's doors are not open Yet (So No Hell)

Remember The great white throne judgement ???????

Remember that Hell was first made for 1 person (Right/ Wrong)

The Doors of Hell will not be Open till God Judges Everyone at the Great white throne get together OK...
Everyone that died in Sin will be Judge after Satan is judge and there body's and soul's will be put back together and they will get on their last one way flight to Hell. (With doors wide open)

My points of contention is specifically these:

1. The sea will give up the dead therein
   
2. Death and Hades will give up the dead that are in them,
   
3. then all will be judged according to their works
   
4. Death and Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire (*remember* these are still empty--no one has been put back in them)
   
5. Anyone whose name was not found written in the Book of Life will be thrown into the lake of fire.
   
6. The last enemy to be done away with is death,
   
7. When Death is done away with, so is the grave (hades)
   
8. No one can suffer for eternity in hell (hades) because it will be destroyed
   
9. The lake of Fire is not Hell--because the lake of fire is an eternal fire--and hell is not, it will be destroyed. (Matthew 18:8) Only God is Eternal
   
10. Jesus came to baptize with fire--the place for water baptism (in days gone by) is a lake.
    
11. A lake of Fire is an apt place to be baptized with Fire.
    
12. For everyone will be salted with fire, and every sacrifice will be salted with salt. (Mark 9:49)
    
13. Jesus said "I have come to bring fire on earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! ' (Luke 12:49)
    
14. The judgment will take place by fire:
    'for the day will show what it is, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work. ' (1 Col 3:13)
    
15. If his work is burned up, he will suffer loss. However, he himself will be saved, but it will be like going through fire. (1 Col 3:15)
    
16. udgment and a raging fire that will consume the enemies of God (Hebrews 10:27)
    
17. The fire, once again, is God: 'For our God is an all-consuming fire. ' (Hebrews 12:29)
    
18. Fire is a purifier, refiner, and test: so that the genuineness of your faith, which is more valuable than gold that perishes when it is tested by fire (1 Peter 1:7)
    
19. The fire will destroy our flesh, but not our souls--which is a good thing, because 'flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven.'
    

the judgement is for ever

Judgment is not something that goes on and on. It is just like a court trial--both sides are heard, a decision made, and the situation is rectified. Then it is over--judgment is for a purpose, and it is not capital punishment, it is rehabiliation, restoration, healing...

and there is no more Evil or hate left nowhere for ever....

If there will be no more evil or hate left anywhere--then obviously a place of eternal torment cannot exist--eternal torment naturally fosters evil and hate--anyone receiving such will soon begin to hate someone..anyone --torture has a way of doing evil and hateful things to a person's mind--eroding their peace and producing negative energy.

Negative energy is 'evil.' If evil will no longer exist then neither will torture and pain.

God is not inhumane, man is inhumane--to man-- in God's name.

God can fix every evil--He doesn't have to resort to killing it like cowboys kill rattlesnakes.

Originally posted by queenannie38

the judgement is for ever

Judgment is not something that goes on and on. It is just like a court trial--both sides are heard, a decision made, and the situation is rectified. Then it is over--judgment is for a purpose, and it is not capital punishment, it is rehabiliation, restoration, healing...

I was wondering, out of curiosity, how you know. The bible, after all, says different, so your claim is not based on this. Do you claim that God told you personally otherwise? Or are you saying that we can make up facts about the universe?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Originally posted by roger_pearse
I was wondering, out of curiosity, how you know. The bible, after all, says different, so your claim is not based on this. Do you claim that God told you personally otherwise? Or are you saying that we can make up facts about the universe?

I'm not suggesting anyone make anything up.

The English translations of the bible may say differently, but the NT was notwritten in English--since no one spoke it--as it did not yet exist. The words 'eternal' and 'everlasting' are not precise interpretations of the Greek words 'aion' and 'aionios'.

Originally posted by roger_pearse
Or are you saying that we can make up facts about the universe?

We are not free to make up facts about the universe, but we are free to make up facts about imaginary places. That's how myths evolve.

I thought myths happened when you make up things about facts (turning them into nonsense).



who knows...

Originally posted by queenannie38
I thought myths happened when you make up things about facts (turning them into nonsense).

That's pretty much how it works. Sometimes though, a work of fiction comes to be accepted as real (such as The Divine Comedy), and myths grow that way as well. At other times, someone may speak in symbolism (common in 1st century Roman empire), but someone uninitiated hears it and takes it literally and a myth grows out of that. The New Testament is the latter.

Revelation is a classic example of symbolism being taken literally and a whole new end-times myth being born.

Queenannie38

I see where your opinion is coming and I new another person that was into the Greek translation and I'm just not that good enough to go into Greek because as you and every one that's into Greek for some reason thinks that we have been into the 1000year reign of Jesus is now. But I still am waiting for Jesus and His second coming..

I will not bother you again OK........

I am gobsmacked! Why are folk so determined to fight against the TRULY GOOD NEWS that Queenieann is posting.

She is answering the too many lies and misinterpretations that make folk resistant to believing that GOD IS JUST and as such, WILL END ALL SUFFERING.

Argue about the fairytales told us as gosple, that have made so many fearfull or hatefull of the false God's taught to people throughout the ages, that's fine, but fighting to keep the impression of THE ONE TRUE CREATOR GOD as cruel and unforgiving, by those who claim not to believe that the Bible is the word of God, at best is unfruitfull and at worst, maybe even deliberately evil.

Why do so many people WANT TO BELIEVE IN THE CRUEL CONCEPT OF ETERNAL SUFFERING IN HELL? Are they really that hate filled for mankind that they like to imagine others suffering that way or do they HATE GOD SO MUCH THAT THEY WANT TO TURN AS MANY AWAY FROM HIM AS POSSIBLE? I suspect the latter.

Thanks for your posts Queenie, I'm sure you are reaching those genuinely seeking the truth. You make too much loving sence not to.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Why do so many people WANT TO BELIEVE IN THE CRUEL CONCEPT OF ETERNAL SUFFERING IN HELL?

It makes them feel good about themselves. You need that after you've bought the concept of sin and tend to think of yourself as an unworthy sinner who deserves to be destroyed.

Authoritarian types take particular delight in it.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Why do so many people WANT TO BELIEVE IN THE CRUEL CONCEPT OF ETERNAL SUFFERING IN HELL? Are they really that hate filled for mankind that they like to imagine others suffering that way or do they HATE GOD SO MUCH THAT THEY WANT TO TURN AS MANY AWAY FROM HIM AS POSSIBLE? I suspect the latter.

Thanks for your posts Queenie, I'm sure you are reaching those genuinely seeking the truth. You make too much loving sence not to.

It is less about what people think of others and more what people want to believe for themselves. Let us make no balls, people want those who have hurt them to suffer. Murderers, rapists, child molesters, and anyone else who has sinned against a person... people as a whole do not wish to believe that their punishment ends at the end of their life. Hell is an idea of comfort to many people.

It is comforting to think that those who have done horrible things suffer eternally for them, because in a way it vindicates the hatred and anger the sufferERS feel considering the persons actions.

It has less to do with God and more to do with personal comfort.

I would say that you do hit the nail on the head, but I would also say that God has been perverted by his followers for a long time. The Creator, which I believe in, is all Loving with endless Compassion. However, the God which others believe in seems to mete out their own personal anger on those that have offended them or are somehow abominations of humanity.

I love my Creator, for I feel I was put here on earth for a very specific purpose and while that purpose may not be kind to me, it is a blessed and wonderous thing for others.

I am also grateful for quennieanne's posts, it is refreshing and invigorating to see scripture quoted so expertly and with such veracity towards a truly divine meaning of it, transcendental of mankinds base wants of God (or fears, as it were).

If you are curious of my views, I've made many voluminous postings in this particular topic... and it has been a very good conversation.

As for the initial topic, I think the conspiracy is not of religion, I think there is a Christian Conspiracy to pervert the true will of the Creator by people claiming to be its followers.

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me. (John 14:6, New American Standard)

If there is no hell, then what happens to those that don't go through Jesus to get to God?

Why does Jesus continuely speak against sin if you can sin all you want and not have to go to him or the father for forgiveness?
(Matt 18:8)

Like I said earlier, what happens to those that blaspheme the Holy Spirit?
(Mark 3:29)

It is quite clear that there will be a hell, a place of eternal torment.
(Matt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30, Luke 16:28)

How can one forfeit his soul if there is no hell?
(Mark 8:36)

How does free will exist if all are to be saved? If someone denies God, denies his Son and denies the Holy Spirit, how does he/she go to Heaven? It is quite clear that there will be gnashing of the teeth, why will people be mad if they are going to heaven?

I just don't get how a hell does not exist, it would leave the puzzle unfinished.

Your good news is fake and plays into the hands of Satan and the flesh.

The real good news exists and although twisted by some, true. It's simple, come to Jesus and you shall be saved.

And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:12-15)

The scriptures just do not support you assurtions. I know plenty of greek scholars that would agree.

[edit on 9/25/2005 by Forgiven]

Originally posted by Forgiven
How can one forfeit his soul if there is no hell?
(Mark 8:36)

If you're in hell, then you have not forfeited your soul. You are asking the question backward. How is it possible to forfeit your soul if you still have it forever?

You cannot forfeit your soul unless there you actively offer it as payment for something. A person can give their soul away, but it isn't "By acting" it is...

For lack of a better explanation, it isn't "ACCIDENTAL" that a person loses their soul. They purposefully seek out to SELL it or to GET RID of it. It cannot be lost through action alone, as the soul is the essence of the divine and thus immortal.

As for SIN... I find that if most people ask the question "If there is no right or wrong, and no sin, then why should you do good?", they are likely not good people at heart if they cannot answer their own question.

Goodness has nothing to do with god, nor sin, nor anything. To do well for others and yourself relies not upon God or Religion, it relies upon (In void of any such system) self appointed choice.

To hurt another is to hurt another, regardless if sin exists. Should you care if you won't be punished for it in the afterlife? I would say you should, because that is to be human. To be "godly" one must act in accordance with your own choices towards spiritual behavior, otherwise you are only seeking a REWARD, which is disingenuous of the soul.

I do not seek Heaven, I do not believe in Hell. I try and help others and care for others because, to me, I feel it is what should happen.

People who only behave because of "HELL" should go to "HELL".

Originally posted by Forgiven
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me. (John 14:6, New American Standard)

If there is no hell, then what happens to those that don't go through Jesus to get to God?

They don't get there. But God isn't going to shut that door until all get through it. The gates out of this world are open, and none can shut them to anyone--but yet there is just one gate.

Why does Jesus continuely speak against sin if you can sin all you want and not have to go to him or the father for forgiveness?
(Matt 18:8)

What do you understand sin to be? If your answer has to do with certain specified transgressions, then that's a hindrance to your comprehending what I'm saying. You're defining 'sin' by means of an evaluation which only perceives the fleshly side of things.

Like I said earlier, what happens to those that blaspheme the Holy Spirit?
(Mark 3:29)

I answered you earlier, too--didn't I?
It points back to the concept of there being only one gate. If you don't see that gate as what it is, calling it, say, the gate to hell, then you're going to miss it. When your eyes open, and you see, then you know.

It is quite clear that there will be a hell, a place of eternal torment.
(Matt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30, Luke 16:28)

Random verses taken on their own would seem to say anything we choose to understand in them.

How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
--Matthew 18:12 KJV



Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
--Matthew 22:13 KJV



And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
--Matthew 25:30 KJV



For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
--Luke 16:28 KJV



Not one of those verses says anything either correctly or incorrectly translatable as 'eternal.'

How can one forfeit his soul if there is no hell?
(Mark 8:36)

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
--Mark 8:36 KJV

The word 'lose' is 'zemioo' which doesn't mean 'forfeit', it means:
to injure, that is, (reflexively or passively) to experience detriment: - be cast away, receive damage, lose, suffer loss.


It is the very same word used in this verse from a Pauline Epistle:

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
--1 Corinthians 3:13-15 KJV

How does free will exist if all are to be saved?

'Free will' is a human concept--if we had free will why would be told that 'The truth shall make ye free'?
Don't get 'the opportunity to choose' confused with 'free will.' God has Free Will, Christ has Free Will. They have the power to instill the breath of life and create living souls and the environment in which they live.

If someone denies God, denies his Son and denies the Holy Spirit, how does he/she go to Heaven? It is quite clear that there will be gnashing of the teeth, why will people be mad if they are going to heaven?

Gnashing the teeth can denote both anger or disappointment, as well as some other intense emotional reactions. But the addition of 'wailing' signifies that this is a situation of lamentations rather than anger. It is that feeling of 'if only I would have..'

I just don't get how a hell does not exist, it would leave the puzzle unfinished.

I understand where you're coming from, in saying that. I can only tell you one thing--the 'missing' piece of the puzzle is not hell, but rather God's true perfection and absolute sovreignity over all He created. A king is not just the advocate of only those citizens who like him--he has a responsibility to each and every one of his subjects--equally. God is even a better king than the most noble and righteous earthly king who might have ever lived. Therefore we know that He is not leaving anything up to chance--His interest lies solely in the welfare of His subjects. And since He sent His Son because 'He so loved the world' (not a portion, but all) then we know that every soul ever born was both made in His image and is part of His kingdom.
The prodigal son never ceased being the son of his father--but for quite some time he lived beyond the gates of his father's estate--not because his father didn't want him there, but because his own youthful impetuousness kept him from seeing just how much his father truly loved him--and at the very least the manner in which his father regarded his paternal responsibility to his sons.

And when he came to himself, he said,
How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him,
Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son:
make me as one of thy hired servants.
--Luke 15:17-19 KJV

The father treated his servants righteously--so much more his sons?

Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
--Matthew 7:9-11 KJV

Your good news is fake and plays into the hands of Satan and the flesh.

No, it is your insistence upon believing something not supported , instead of seeking to prove it to yourself--that plays right into the hands of Satan.

Same thing as always--started that day in the garden:
The adversary does his best to make you believe less of God than is true. He makes God seem like a bad guy--and regardless if one rejects this or embraces it--it is still not God's nature--it is man's!

As long as you view God no differently than you would a mortal man, the God you extol is not the living God but one made to reflect the nature of man, which is the only one man truly understands--simply due to the experience thereof.

God's ways are not our ways!

The real good news exists and although twisted by some, true. It's simple, come to Jesus and you shall be saved.

That's right. That's pretty simple and pure. The rest added on is not--hell is not simple or pure--it is not what we perceive it to be while we view with only our two fleshly eyes.

The scriptures just do not support you assurtions. I know plenty of greek scholars that would agree.

Do you have names and contact info? Or do you know any personally? If you do, then have them call me. PM me and I'll give you my cell phone #--seriously. I'm no scholar--but it really doesn't take anything more than allowing one's self to be led toward truth rather than in a wild goose chase away from deep fears.

I stand upon what I say--because I'm not just on a for s@#ts and giggles!


[edit on 9/25/2005 by queenannie38]

[edit on 9/25/2005 by queenannie38]

Originally posted by Forgiven
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me. (John 14:6, New American Standard)

If there is no hell, then what happens to those that don't go through Jesus to get to God?

Perhaps they live again. Perhaps their soul dissipates. Perhaps they go to heaven.

Why does Jesus continuely speak against sin if you can sin all you want and not have to go to him or the father for forgiveness?
(Matt 18:8)

Because sin is not the point, personal actions and responsibility is. Jesus wants you to live well and to help and love others.

Like I said earlier, what happens to those that blaspheme the Holy Spirit?
(Mark 3:29)

Contradiction with the concept of an All-Loving, Compassionate God.

It is quite clear that there will be a hell, a place of eternal torment.
(Matt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30, Luke 16:28)

I do believe there is a "VOID", or an oblivion for certain people who Sell their soul. I don't mean that figuratively, I mean selling their soul literally. Those that ally themselves with the Unmaker. Again, this is an active personal choice that people undertake, it can't happen to people who just don't live proper lives.

How can one forfeit his soul if there is no hell?
(Mark 8:36)

See my above post.

How does free will exist if all are to be saved? If someone denies God, denies his Son and denies the Holy Spirit, how does he/she go to Heaven? It is quite clear that there will be gnashing of the teeth, why will people be mad if they are going to heaven?

I think perhaps they would be mad to find Hitler there, or to realize the concept of an indiscriminating Creator Being.

I just don't get how a hell does not exist, it would leave the puzzle unfinished.

Consider first that it doesn't, then try and understand the universe. Actually, this is a good method to put into practice with all religion. Remove an element that a religion "NEEDS" and try to re-parse the universe without that element into an understandable one. It's what I do. Some, I feel, are essential elements to the way the universe functions.

Your good news is fake and plays into the hands of Satan and the flesh.

The real good news exists and although twisted by some, true. It's simple, come to Jesus and you shall be saved.

I believe that forgiveness is required, but not from Jesus or God, from your own spiritual self that witnesses all your choices. You shall be your judge in the afterlife, and all the weight you carry but ignore will be your hell until you come to terms with your decisions.

The scriptures just do not support you assurtions. I know plenty of greek scholars that would agree.

Just because everyone jumps off the bridge doesn't mean you should... and just because a lot of people agree doesn't mean you should believe them.

And, like it or not--the idea that 'some will be saved but most will go to hell' is by no means Good News! -queenannie38




That's not the good news that we are told about in the Bible. The Good News is that Jesus died for sins, and anyone who places their faith in Him, and what He has done to remove sins, is forgiven.

[edit on 25-9-2005 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by queenannie38
What is currently proclaimed as 'gospel' is, at best, closer to 'I've got some good news and some bad news. Good for me but bad for you!' (or 'You're going to hell and I'm not!')

Is that in line with 'loving your neighbor as yourself?' If we desire good news for ourselves, then doesn't it follow that we must desire the same for our neighbor, if we love him as we love ourselves? This is the same way Christ loves us!

If someone has truly been born again by God, then the line, "You're going to hell and I'm not isn't a part of us." Why would that make us happy. Others are told about Christ so they may come to the saving knowledge of Christ also. I've escaped the eternity of hell because of what Jesus Christ has done to remove my sins.

My attitude can't be, all is well now, because it's not. People are headed to hell for rejecting Christ as Savior, to deny this is not loving your neighbor as yourself. If you don't spread the Gospel then it shows that you DON"T care about others, by saying I DON"T care if they go to hell. Everyone God has placed within the circle of your influence, He wants you to tell about Jesus, through word and actions.

Originally posted by dbrandt
If someone has truly been born again by God,

then they have the mind of Christ--right? That's what Paul says:

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God;that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth;
comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him:
neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
--1 Corinthians 2:10-16 KJV


For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
For who hath known the mind of the Lord?
or who hath been his counsellor?
Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
--Romans 11:32-36 KJV

Someone truly 'born again' has presented themselves as a living sacrifice as Paul exhorts the Romans to do:

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
--Romans 12:1-3 KJV

then the line, "You're going to hell and I'm not isn't a part of us." Why would that make us happy. Others are told about Christ so they may come to the saving knowledge of Christ also. I've escaped the eternity of hell because of what Jesus Christ has done to remove my sins.

And yet you fail to see that your complacency with that is not compatible with the mind of Christ--nor is just 'feeling bad about it' sufficient for righteousness. Because in the long run, ultimately it is only your own soul's endurance that you truly care about.

My attitude can't be, all is well now, because it's not. People are headed to hell for rejecting Christ as Savior, to deny this is not loving your neighbor as yourself.

Neither is my attitude 'all is well now.' It is far from well--and I'm greatly concerned. Just not in the same way you are--I did the Berean thing and searched the scriptures and this is what is there.

To deny that God is all-loving, merciful, and righteous, --and truly not a respecter of persons is to blaspheme His Holy Name. To present one's self as a holy and pious person, and then convince others that you know what you're saying because you go to church or are 'saved'--proceeding then to make Him sound no better that a 5th grader as far as petty emotions and immature injustice is spreading a lie in the name of Truth.

If you don't spread the Gospel then it shows that you DON"T care about others, by saying I DON"T care if they go to hell. Everyone God has placed within the circle of your influence, He wants you to tell about Jesus, through word and actions.

No doubt--and I've had many opportunities--not going to door to door but by just answering my own door. But He didn't bring anyone to my house with questions until He knew I had been prepared sufficiently to answer them.

The #1 priority for anyone undertaking to spread the gospel is to first determine what exactly the 'gospel' is. That's the whole idea behind 'study to show thyself approved.' But most skip that part for lack of submitting one's mind to God.

If it ain't good news for all, then it's not the gospel. Does that mean we must fit our ideas into some pre-formed idea of 'good news?' No way! We are to search and study until the truth becomes evident. Being drawn into religious indoctrination is not searching and studying--it's forsaking the law of God in favor of the preferred traditions of man.

Originally posted by dbrandt

That's not the good news that we are told about in the Bible. The Good News is that Jesus died for sins, and anyone who places their faith in Him, and what He has done to remove sins, is forgiven.

[edit on 25-9-2005 by dbrandt]

No, that is not the good news that you've been told, and obviously believe to be trustworthy information, about the bible--or perhaps it is not what you think you have read. All you are demonstrating is that you don't understand what it is you think you are to believe in, in order to get something you already have, but don't recognize.

Believing in something is no different than not believing--especially if God wasn't good for His word.