The Conspiracy of the 'other' Gospel

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by dbrandt
Dead people returning to earth is not Biblical. Do not build a life based on that or you will be deceived.

mmkay...

Isn't that like the whole premise of the main event in the bible? Jesus died, rose again in the ultimate triumph of spirit over flesh, and then ascended to the Father, after which He then returned for a short period before departing to take His place at the right hand of the Throne?

I'm not talking about Jesus here. I'm talking about the idea that when someone dies there "spirit" can roam the earth. I think you probably already knew that. Jesus is God and His resurrection has already happened and is different from that of people.

satan is the only documented individual that whos spirit roams the earth. other than that its unclean spirits. People raise up when they die.

Originally posted by NuTroll
satan is the only documented individual that whos spirit roams the earth. other than that its unclean spirits. People raise up when they die.

The Jinn are also documented to roam the earth.

Spirits / Demons:

Oh Yea, Remember the Demos that Jesus ran out of Matthew 28: 28-34 ? and Mark talks about it in Mark: 5: 1- 13. And another good one is in Acts,16: 16-19 (Driving a Demon From the Slave Girl)..

There are many places were they talk about Demon leading people to do Wrong and Kill and Steals that stay with that person till death and Then I guess they jump into someone else.

One good thing is if you decide that you don't the Demon in You, all you have to do is get right with Jesus...

Originally posted by jfdarby
One good thing is if you decide that you don't the Demon in You, all you have to do is get right with Jesus...

The easiest way to avoid demon posession is not to believe in demons, just as the easiest way to avoid alien abduction is not to believe in aliens. These are psychological disorders, not actual manifestations.

satan is the only documented individual that whos spirit roams the earth. other than that its unclean spirits. People raise up when they die.

Documented?

One does not give much credit to one's spirit. One's spirit can be anywhere and everywhere. That is the uniqueness of our spirit leaving the body upon the end of our physical existence.

Raise up? Surely you are not of the belief that heaven is "up there"? Heaven is here, there, everywhere. The power of GOD is great. The power of GOD is unique. Think about the power of light.

Dead people returning to earth is not Biblical. Do not build a life based on that or you will be deceived


Demons/Spirits,,,,,, They Are Out There Folks,

Matthew 8: 28-34

When he had arrived at the other side in the region of the Gardeners, Two demos-Possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 Whatdoyouwant with us, Son of God, They Shouted. Have you come here to torture us before the appointed Time?

3o Some distance from them a large herd of Pigs was feeding.31 The demons begged Jesus, If you drive out, send us into the herd of pigs.

32 He said to them, Go! So they came out and went into the herd of pigs and the whole herd rushing down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water.

33 Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all of this, Including what had happen to the demon-possessed men. 34Then the whole town went out to meet h Jesus And when they saw him, they pleaded with him to leave there Region...

Originally posted by jfdarby

Dead people returning to earth is not Biblical.

What about Lazarus? What about Jesus? What about the body that touched the staff of Elijah? What about those who were raised from the dead when Jesus died and wandered about the holy city seen by many?

Other than Jesus, the Biblical resurrections were back to "mortal" life not the resurrection to a new, spirtually perfect, eternal body. You can't 'kill' energy but move, change, store it and that 'life energy' that leaves the dead, is stored in "sleep" untill the resurrection when ALL will have a chance to choose to repent, be whelmed (baptised) with God's truth and join His eternal Family.

Demons are the 1/3 of the angels that followed Lucifar and help him rule the world in this current system, that saddly, many will choose to support even at and, for a 1000 years after, Christs return to rule God's Kingdom. After that 1000 years, no more chances for those who refuse to accept just, giving, love as better than the opposers rule. They will simply die. No eternal torture in burning hell for mere imperfect humans.The opposing angels however, who are immortal but KNOW the Truth yet choose against it, get a different deal.

It's all in The Good Book. Seek and find it yourselves.

All in the good book... hmm... and if I might note, the good book actually doesn't include all Christian Texts. Only those sanctioned by the Catholic Church during the writing.

It ignores the Gospel of Mary, the Gospel of Thomas, and many other Gospels which were considered to be less important to the spiritual message of the bible (Read; some of it contradicted the Catholic take on controlling the masses).

As it stands... the innaccuracy I mentioned in other threads is summed up by this particular flaw; the Bible isn't the entire works of the Apostles and followers of Christ, nor is it the entire works of the Hebrew texts either.

In response to the problematic idea of an all loving god that would still punish his followers... perfect love should be more perfect than a human patriarchs love... perfect love should have no condition, no decree, and no requirement in order to benefit from it. Perfect love is thankless, guiltless, and accepting of the most vile sinners and monsters of the world, for they are all part of God's great creation, and anything less wouldn't be "PERFECT" love....

And I for one prefer to think of my Creator as a "PERFECT" being. If not, then I see absolutely no reason to ascribe to any belief conjoining itself with such an Imperfect Entity. You can have your Demiurgos, I will have my Sophia and spiritual wisdom.

and may the Creator, in ITS infinite Compassion, bestow love and guidance upon you that you may come to understand the horrors of the Material world are but fleeting in the face of the true promise; eternal life in a spiritual sense...

If you have the cojones to actually persue enlightenment rather than bang a book on a table.

If you CHOOSE to be and remain a 'vile monster', who is NEVER satisfide GETTING and DOING your OWN will, it would be a mercy to let you cease to exist rather than go on in an eternal search for SELF fullfillment. It seems, in your 'judgement', God is 'evil' for giving us the "FREE will" to "choose" justice, giving and creating instead of "getting" things by the injustice of distruction in order to "make" them.

It is you that is ascribing a mortal, patriarchal imperfect charactor to The God of The Christian Bible not I or that Good Book, which regardless of what it doesn't include and WHY, still explains the purpose, history and future of mans creation in a manner countless people have no problem understanding.

Show me one surgeon who has read every book on medicine ever written before he can practice well and your arguement may have some merit but while only the best and proven is used to teach anything, the value and integrity of The Bible stands.

As to getting my "nose out of The Bible" if I didn't study the world as a whole from many, varied sources, as it advises to do, it wouldn't be as clear as it is. I came to Bible study late in life and am not one of those "fundimentalist" that seem to so be drowning out the Christian Message in America with their worldly politics. Please remove the bias you have against such people, that you display in the tone of your posts, when you read mine.

I have to wonder as to the purpose of "preaching" YOUR understanding of "perfect love" yet keenly trying to undermine trust in the book that explains it.

Very Good, Queenannie Very Good...


I think I hear some minds starting to open.

Enlightenment is like opening a closet door and seeing how much rubbish is really there, from there you can decide what is still of some importance and which is to be throwen out.

Some Concepts and ideals can take someone a while to adjust to, whether they accept it or not, truth is truth will prevail eventually.

Originally posted by queenannie38And, like it or not--the idea that 'some will be saved but most will go to hell' is by no means Good News!

there is a hell:
journals.aol.com...

the good news is this: that all men stand condemned on their way to hell, BUT...
whoever believes, repents, forsaking sin and putting their faith in YAHSHUA (aka Jesus) will have eternal life, which is to KNOW God. They have passed over from death into LIFE. Eternal life starts now (not at death) and continues eternally.

The Lake of Fire is eternal and MOST will go there, because they are not lovers of the Truth. Click the 2nd link in my sig.

Go read John chapter 3. How much clearer can it get?

[edit on 4-12-2005 by seawater999]

Originally posted by spamandham
Interestingly, not all who call themselves Christian believe the Bible is inerrant, or even approximately inerrant. Some see it as -- gasp -- a collection of ancient books for spiritual guidance, but not for legalism.

Interestingly, not all those who call themselves 'Accountants' can be trusted... Their accounts reflect their own wishes rather than the rules of the accounting profession.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Originally posted by jfdarby

Dead people returning to earth is not Biblical. Do not build a life based on that or you will be deceived


Demons/Spirits,,,,,, They Are Out There Folks,

People who have died go to be with the Lord if they are saved and if unsaved they go to hades until judgement. These instances about the spirits are not the spirits of people.

Fallen angels are the cause of this and not people. There is also an argument that evil spirits are from the giants who were destroyed in the flood. They once had a body to inhabit and when the flood destroyed that body they were left without one and that is why they seek a body to inhabit, even the body of a pig.

But I'll repeat they are not the souls/spirits of people who have died.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by spamandham


Huh? What about the dead who were raised and walked around Jarusalem when Jesus was raised? What about Lazarus? What about the dead guy who came back to life after his body touched the bones of Elisha?

Good question. I need to research the answer.

Iasked my Pastor and he gave a the short version answer. This was a one time specific event to add proof and validity to the resurrection of Christ and it's power.

[edit on 5-12-2005 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by suzy ryan
If you CHOOSE to be and remain a 'vile monster', who is NEVER satisfide GETTING and DOING your OWN will, it would be a mercy to let you cease to exist rather than go on in an eternal search for SELF fullfillment.

Okay, explain why you feel it is a mercy without appealing to my sense of humanity that suffering shouldn't happen. Do that and I might believe you.

It seems, in your 'judgement', God is 'evil' for giving us the "FREE will" to "choose" justice, giving and creating instead of "getting" things by the injustice of distruction in order to "make" them.

The Creator is Divine Love. I would no more ascribe goodness to IT than I would ascribe evil. I would, dare I say it? Ascribe creation to IT.

As for free will... that is why no man that sins shall die, for eternal love is the Creator's blessing, a love which cannot be washed away with a thousand sins. Perfect love, even of the most flawed and broken of creations creatures.

It is HUMANS that desire punishment for the sinners, not our beloved Creator. It is HUMANS that cannot reconcile sin in the material existence as being entirely meaningless.... but then, humans also think that the material is some kind of test for their God's Love. How quaint.

Why should you do good? Not because doing sin is bad, but because doing good should be what you WANT to do. Whether you do or not holds no bearing on your soul, save for what you yourself will hold against yourself in the post-material judgment of yourself. No better judge than yourself, I might add, for you know all the personal lies and deceits you told yourself along the way to help you feel better about your mistakes.

It is you that is ascribing a mortal, patriarchal imperfect charactor to The God of The Christian Bible not I or that Good Book, which regardless of what it doesn't include and WHY, still explains the purpose, history and future of mans creation in a manner countless people have no problem understanding.

The Bible as commonly represented holds fearmongering and sin over mortal beings heads without providing any true spiritual path, as fearmongering is useful to the church. There is value in the bible, particularly amongst Christ's Parables, that present the inkling of some spiritual path one should take to garner enlightenment, but much of it was excised from the texts during the Cannonization as superfluous, unneccessary, or altogether conflicting with other parts of the bible. The Gospel of Mary is a rather important one, as without it the bible has very few strong women portrayed in a good light.... which colors history and likely would have changed the outcome of how women were treated for ages after the Cannonization.

Do not pretend that the repurcussions of the Churches choice in what literature to contain within the Holy Scriptures do not exist. Greater the sin that is the churches who speak in the name of our Creator with only blasphemous words.

Show me one surgeon who has read every book on medicine ever written before he can practice well and your arguement may have some merit but while only the best and proven is used to teach anything, the value and integrity of The Bible stands.

I agree that the bible in and of itself holds intrinsic value, but the lack of important texts perverts the message that was meant to be conveyed just to benefit the Mother Church. What is so tragic is that so many of you people don't even know the truth of your own faith, and lack the understanding of texts verbotten and apokryphal and how they would have changed the world for the better if they had been included in Cannon. But I can rail up and down about what i'f's, they don't stand as proof, merely my own beliefs.

Tragedies exist where documents and knowledge are burned. Alexandrea, the Druidic Libraries, and countless libraries across the centuries that were purged of heretical knowledge in the name of God.

Do not lecture me of what I do not know, for I mourn that I am ignorant and can never be otherwise... worse yet, I mourn for you who know not your ignorance.

As to getting my "nose out of The Bible" if I didn't study the world as a whole from many, varied sources, as it advises to do, it wouldn't be as clear as it is.

And incomplete, horrendously incomplete. As for your worldly view, how about you cite some of this "Knowledge" you have.

I came to Bible study late in life and am not one of those "fundimentalist" that seem to so be drowning out the Christian Message in America with their worldly politics.

Okay, so here's a good question, what *IS* the Christian Message?

Please remove the bias you have against such people, that you display in the tone of your posts, when you read mine.

I hold no bias, everyone is equal in my ardor and passion. I have waged against religion while I myself hold beliefs, I have waged against science while I myself hold beliefs on that side as well.

I have to wonder as to the purpose of "preaching" YOUR understanding of "perfect love" yet keenly trying to undermine trust in the book that explains it.

Trust in Christ, Trust in your Creator, Trust in your faith and your spirituality. Do not trust in written pages the truth of their content, trust instead on your soul and what it renders unto you in your belief. Be you pagan, luciferian, atheist, christian, buddhist, muslim, hindu, or other... all are on the path to spiritual enlightenment, and no man is given sanction to judge his fellow man.

That is for the CREATOR/GOD'S to decide.

Originally posted by NuTroll
satan is the only documented individual that whos spirit roams the earth. other than that its unclean spirits. People raise up when they die.

Satan is a bastardization of a Persian God named "Shai'Tan" during the era whence the Catholic Church was clearing the Druidic "Pagan" Faith from the British Isles and burning their libraries.

Satan, much like Lucifer, were late inventions to the bible. The BEAST, however, I do believe is originally in the texts.

Queen Annie, I was wondering just a moment ago...

What is your particular take on other faiths and other religions? Can they attain spiritual enlightenment the same as the Christians, or are they biblically odd-men-out?

Your personal feelings as well as any supportive or refutive arguments would greatly help me in understanding a bit more about the Christian view, I am certain.

O.K. the Christian message ultimately is that God created man to be a part of His Holy Family. Despite the countless times throughout history that we've chosen or been deceived into rejecting Him as our loving Father, He still wants ALL to have the fair chance to FREELY CHOOSE to rejoin His Family for ETERNITY.

There are two resurrections, the first at Christs return and the second after a millenium of His rule when those of the second resurrection will see how things should be run for perfect, just, loving peace. No one misses out because they didn't know any better. Those of the first resurrection will help, "teach the way of The Lord" for a 1000 years, when many others will come to learn.

This Biblical detail, so often overlooked, explains the justice behind, "the first will last and the last will be first" and a number of other often confusing and seemingly contradictory statements. Those of the first resurrection still have a duty to make it easier for the second to experience, know and choose to receive eternal life.

We all still have a great deal to learn, myself most definitely included but The Bible is the only source I've found that reasonably explains why so many "good people" (who arn't currently, or at the first death, of the 'One True Faith') won't 'miss out' and why ALL people should be treated with selfless love.

Religions in this world are like education centres, though all can teach valuable things some teach more to a higher standard yet God will give all a chance to enrole in the greatest university ever, which isn't yet on this earth.

Choise isn't free or just if it isn't FULLY informed. This first round of learning under satan's rule is just setting us up for the next under Christ's rule. The fat lady hasn't even reached the dressing room let alone started singing.

As to suffering, like life saving, major surgery (which we proudly boast MAN does out of love for MORTAL life) the damage and pain done is, mostly, forgotten when we wake, and what isn't is seen as worth the price of being ALIVE. We are currently going under SPIRITUAL surgery to save us from eternal death into ETERNAL LIFE and unlike our mortal surgeons there will be NO memoury or scar of pain, suffering or damage.

I hope you can except that I know I'm just a mere mortal trying to explain my understanding of spirtual things with worldly words and have no desire to 'convert' anyone but simply appreciate the oppotunity to discuss a subject dear to me with others shareing their related thoughts on this board.