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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
What is your definition of independent?
The skyline is clearly visible in the video of CA levitating above a golf course. So visible in fact, that one can see a UFO in the distance. However, there is no wires or crane in sight.
(Anyone can go to my reference page link in my signature to view that and other related videos.)
Care to produce some images for us?
[edit on 10-1-2008 by Paul_Richard]
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
To the believers (all 2 of them) You guys tout CA's ability as if its fact, while relying completely on MindFreak production video's. So please, do some of your own research and find us OTHER sources of CA's abilities.
Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Now go find us a site which explains in detail how he does his high aerial acts of 500 feet off the ground and flying around a golf course.
Yeah...good luck with that.
Originally posted by SleightlyDicey
and i suppose that, because David Copperfield can make the statue of liberty disappear, he as well is one of these gifted beings. Hell, i bet i could convince you I was someone with gifts from some "fourth plane" beings if i tried.
Originally posted by Paul_Richard
This question saved you from being added to my ignore list.
Originally posted by SleightlyDicey
Your arrogance makes you the first on mine.
*eyewitness is soon to follow*
Originally posted by Paul_Richard
The "mastery" of his Chi is really indicative of a sociological achievement - being elected to a position - not one of spiritual attainment.
Originally posted by SleightlyDicey
So, i suppose this occurred with all the traditional Shaolin Warrior Monks that had developed and trained their chi. You have taken that word and totally twisted it's origins. You are not granted chi. You strengthen and cultivate it. Do some research that doesn't involve members.aol.com. ahaha.
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
This is the age of technology. Everyone has a cell phone with a camrea, where is the footage from those camereas?
Many people taking vacations (say in Vegas) take camera's wherever they go, where is that footage?
Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Actually, many still photographs of Criss Angel hovering over the Luxor Hotel were taken independently, and then added to the MindFreak episode.
If they were all paid-off and the pics were faked, then how come no other illusionist is doing it and making the money CA is?
Originally posted by Paul_Richard
If they were all paid-off and the pics were faked, then how come no other illusionist is doing it and making the money CA is?
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
You guys constantly use this line as if it instantly refutes the anomolies we have posted.
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Edit to add: I know why you hold on to this belief in CA, because you state you can see the yellow aura around him and therefore he must have help from some disincarnate community. Its fine that you believe in such things, but you continued flat-out refusal to look at what is in front of you objectively just makes you look like a fool.
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Just admit you made a mistake and move on.
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Actually, many still photographs of Criss Angel hovering over the Luxor Hotel were taken independently, and then added to the MindFreak episode.
Then they went through post production editing and are no longer independant footage.
The minute the shots change hands, they are tainted and must be viewed with skeptisim.
(From EW86): If any of the people who had sent pictures and video in to Criss had seen them misrepresented, they would have howled to the moon until someone noticed. ANY of Criss competitors ( I know you do not believe there are any, and that no one desires to be rich and successful as long as Criss is around ) would be advertising the complaints so that Criss would be outed and vilified, thus opening up a slot for some new turk to step into. NO complaints at all, ever, about Criss changing the pictures to fool people. Since there is ZERO evidence of Criss misusing any evidence sent to him, then it would be ILLOGICAL to do what you say: Viewing it with skepticism....why discount evidence when there is ZERO evidence that it is not accurate? Again, you are IMAGINING and SUPPOSING as opposed to providing some proof grounded in substance and reality. Nothing new there, sad to say.(end EW86)
If they were all paid-off and the pics were faked, then how come no other illusionist is doing it and making the money CA is?
You guys constantly use this line as if it instantly refutes the anomolies we have posted.
(From EW86): And STILL you refuse to address it!! Please just once for God's sake, give us a LIKELY and PLAUSABLE and INTELLIGENT reason that no one, not one other human being on the face of this earth, has either done what Criss has done or better, thus making THEM the top dog in the ' illusion/magic ' industry.Why hasn't some debunker simply duplicated the events USING props, and showing us all on video just how Criss manages to make the props UNSEEN? THAT would prove your case and shut us up forever. But when all your proof is imaginary and relies on others to accept things not seen or attested to in ANY way, you cannot expect people to believe your side at all.
Please tell us WHY no one in Las Vegas, or anywhere, has the ambition needed to top Cris? Are ALL other ' illusionists ' too lazy, stupid or complacent to want to advance their careers? Is that logical? Most people in show business are rather sharky about getting ahead, and will normally use anything they can to get ahead and top the other guy.
But you seem to think that all Vegas ' illusionsts/'magicians " are somehow like a big club that elects a leader and he makes the most money and gets all the glory and the others just leave him alone and never try to outdo him. WHY do you believe that? Is that logical? See why your theory falls apart so easily? it is comprised of broken parts to begin with!! ( End EW86)
CA does his high levitations for TV only, if you have evidence that states otherwise, please present it.
The fact that he only does it for TV should be a big, huge, red flag.
( From EW86): What? Criss should perform events and NOT record them for later use, possible on TV shows? And pray tell us WHY he would omit filming his events? It makes no sense, what you say. The fact that a levitation is captured on film is in NO WAY an indicator of any intent whatsoever; if you can tell us where the intent lies in that please do so. If Criss did the event for a paid audience and did not film it, then would that lower your red flag? If so, WHY? How can you correlate them? Unreal. Have you not seen the high levitation in the atrium of the Luxor? Tell us please where the crane is there!! Or the wires..or anything..
Let me guess, the Atrium levitation was done by paying off all ther guests in the hotel and all others there, right? So sad..it really makes me pity people who will reach this far to deny reality. (end EW86)
Edit to add:" ..., but you continued flat-out refusal to look at what is in front of you objectively just makes you look like a fool."
Just admit you made a mistake and move on.
[edit on 11-1-2008 by InSpiteOf]
Originally posted by Paul_Richard
An argument that neither you or any other denier/Zero Person has been able to counter effectively.
Coming from a guy who THINKS he had an out of body experience.
For example, in addition to them successfully predicting the last two US presidential winners (among other things), they have also freaked people out on a number of occasions from providing past-life awareness that was then verified on a personal level. They know what they are talking about and they are the highest spiritual source available at the present time - bar none.
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
...everyone of us on the deniers side have given an answer to this line of questioning, some of the answers mirror other posts, other answers add new possibilities to the mix.
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Coming from a guy who THINKS he had an out of body experience.
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
You of all people know my story, I dont for a second believe it was anything but an OOBE. That doesnt mean my interpretation of what I saw and experianced couldnt be wrong, and its the same situation with you.
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
I think your beliefs are pretty out there for most people (some of it i follow, other parts I dont have a clue). But just because you believe them doesnt necessary make it so.
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
To me it seems, you have more vested in your belief in CA than EW86, mainly because of the claims you have made as to the source of his abilities, and frankly, i think its clouded your judgement.
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
I think its fine that you believe in something, hell i wish i had a concrete belief, but i think there comes a time when you have to take a step back, and look at your belief from a critical standpoint.
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
It is more likely that CA is just another illusionist, rather than someone who holds the attention of a disincarnate group entity.
Originally posted by Paul_Richard
For example, in addition to them successfully predicting the last two US presidential winners (among other things), they have also freaked people out on a number of occasions from providing past-life awareness that was then verified on a personal level. They know what they are talking about and they are the highest spiritual source available at the present time - bar none.
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Really? got a prediction as to who wins this time and by what margins?
Originally posted by eyewitness86
(From EW86): If any of the people who had sent pictures and video in to Criss had seen them misrepresented, they would have howled to the moon until someone noticed.
ANY of Criss competitors ( I know you do not believe there are any, and that no one desires to be rich and successful as long as Criss is around )
would be advertising the complaints so that Criss would be outed and vilified, thus opening up a slot for some new turk to step into.
NO complaints at all, ever, about Criss changing the pictures to fool people. Since there is ZERO evidence of Criss misusing any evidence sent to him, then it would be ILLOGICAL to do what you say: Viewing it with skepticism....
If they were all paid-off and the pics were faked, then how come no other illusionist is doing it and making the money CA is?
(From EW86): And STILL you refuse to address it!! Please just once for God's sake, give us a LIKELY and PLAUSABLE and INTELLIGENT reason that no one, not one other human being on the face of this earth, has either done what Criss has done or better, thus making THEM the top dog in the ' illusion/magic ' industry.
Why hasn't some debunker simply duplicated the events USING props, and showing us all on video just how Criss manages to make the props UNSEEN?
Please tell us WHY no one in Las Vegas, or anywhere, has the ambition needed to top Cris? Are ALL other ' illusionists ' too lazy, stupid or complacent to want to advance their careers? Is that logical? Most people in show business are rather sharky about getting ahead, and will normally use anything they can to get ahead and top the other guy.
But you seem to think that all Vegas ' illusionsts/'magicians " are somehow like a big club that elects a leader and he makes the most money and gets all the glory and the others just leave him alone and never try to outdo him. WHY do you believe that? Is that logical? See why your theory falls apart so easily? it is comprised of broken parts to begin with!! ( End EW86)
( From EW86): What? Criss should perform events and NOT record them for later use, possible on TV shows? And pray tell us WHY he would omit filming his events? It makes no sense, what you say.
The fact that a levitation is captured on film is in NO WAY an indicator of any intent whatsoever; if you can tell us where the intent lies in that please do so. If Criss did the event for a paid audience and did not film it, then would that lower your red flag?
Let me guess, the Atrium levitation was done by paying off all ther guests in the hotel and all others there, right? So sad..it really makes me pity people who will reach this far to deny reality. (end EW86)
From EW86: And WHAT exactly did PR refuse to look at that is right in front of us? What convincing evidence, what concrete proofs, what witness testimony, is it that we are not seeing?
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Why didnt they release such footage independant of CA? Put it up on Youtube, google video, Soulseek, Limewire, bit torrent, or whatever other medium.
Originally posted by Paul_Richard
You all fail to name anyone. Which is why that old key question keeps popping up again and again
If what all Criss Angel does is paying off witnesses and editing his videos, then how come no one else is doing it?
BECAUSE THEY CAN'T.
(Something all you Zero People fail to accept.)
Thank you, thank you...
You don't believe it was anything BUT an OOBE.
Do you realize what you are stating?
How do we know that your judgment wasn't impaired back then or now?
If we are to accept you as an unbiased witness then YOU have to accept others as unbiased witnesses.
So for you, better to dismiss everyone's testimony...including your own.
You don't even trust YOUR OWN perceptions and judgment...why should we?
Originally posted by Paul_Richard
They avoid releasing such pictures and footage independently of Criss Angel's MindFreak show because they wish to avoid the same hostility, the same prejudice, the same ignorance, that is found in this thread from the Zero People
Some people in here could really use a course in applied critical thinking.
[edit on 11-1-2008 by Paul_Richard]
Originally posted by Paul_Richard
You all fail to name anyone. Which is why that old key question keeps popping up again and again
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
There could be any number of factors we (thats both sides of this argument) are not aware of. Assuming you or I to be correct without having direct contact with those in the magicians guild and CA's production team is pointless.
If what all Criss Angel does is paying off witnesses and editing his videos, then how come no one else is doing it?
BECAUSE THEY CAN'T.
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Or, other magicians prefer using slieght of hand and other standard magical practises that dont include tv tricks.
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Im sure you realize this already, but calling us "Zero People" is very degrading and insulting.
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Well, Im not offering my experiance for interpretation. The issue here is Criss Angel, not whether I had an OOBE or not. Misdirection much?
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
This entire thread boils down to belief. I believe CA doesnt fly or levitate, I belive I had an OOBE. You believe CA does levitate or fly, you believe you are in contact with disincarnate entities. neither of the personal points i mentioned here really make an impact on the thread.
You don't even trust YOUR OWN perceptions and judgment...why should we?
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
How do you figure? I might be confused as to the interpretation of what I saw, but im not confused as to whether it happened or not.
Originally posted by Paul_Richard
They avoid releasing such pictures and footage independently of Criss Angel's MindFreak show because they wish to avoid the same hostility, the same prejudice, the same ignorance, that is found in this thread from the Zero People
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Nice try, but i dont buy it. That footage would go far as to proving one way or another, if CA had abilities.
Originally posted by InSpiteOf
They dont release any footage because the audiences are carefully picked to include people who wont take pictures and post them elsewhere. Any footage provided by those in the audience are from camera's CA's production team has given them.
Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Some people in here could really use a course in applied critical thinking.
en.wikipedia.org...
Critical thinkers gather information from all senses, verbal and/or written expressions, reflection, observation, experience and reasoning. Critical thinking has its basis in intellectual criteria that go beyond subject-matter divisions and which include: clarity, credibility, accuracy, precision, relevance, depth, breadth, logic, significance and fairness.