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criss angel discussion...

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posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by InSpiteOf
You werent there and therefor are GUESSING[/B] based on what you see in CA's video.


Hey InSpiteOf, the error happened here mate. You used a capital B instead of lower case, therefore making the bold run through till the end of your post.

Hope you can make the necessary changes now


Edit - like what has happened with my post trying to show you!


[edit on 10-1-2008 by Arawn]




posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by Arawn
You believe Criss can ACTUALLY FLY!

Fly...no.

Levitate high in the air via a Gift of Chi-Telekinesis...absolutely.

That is, when he isn't doing his minor illusion of low levitation.


Originally posted by Arawn
Therefore we are clueless people and less educated for believing otherwise!!?

Ignorance is a problem that some here in ATS strive to alleviate.


However, being prejudiced in one's thinking is not something that we can help you with.



Originally posted by Arawn
I lost respect for you and EW86 for spouting this nonsense way back and you still continue to post it.

Oh, I am sure that EW86 and myself feel maligned for life from you losing respect for us.



Originally posted by Arawn
You seem to ignore our opinions, thinking we are inadequate. So how about I ignore your opinions with a simple click of the ignore button.

I highly doubt you would do so.

You come across as someone who hasn't the self-control to "empty one's cup" and learn.

Besides, you can't insult us further if you don't read our posts.



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 02:42 PM
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Although this one wasn't directly addressed to me, since it pertains to what I stated earlier, I will chime in.


Originally posted by InSpiteOf
So you dont find it odd that his spiritual gift (whether from the 4th plane or not) makes him wobble on takeoff?

Not at all.

Do you have a copy of "The Correct Way To Perform Telekinetic Levitations Without Wobbling" in your metaphysical library?




Originally posted by InSpiteOf
You dont find it even stranger that the angle of his wobble can actually be used to calculate the position of a crane above him?

I haven't noticed him wobbling on takeoff but if he does or not is largely irrelevant. Just because someone is levitating does not automatically mean that they have built-in gyros or something of that nature.

You speculate that a crane is being used. Okay then, show us the wires, show us the crane.

For that matter: show us ANYONE ANYWHERE - wobbles or no wobbles - who is doing the same IN THE OPEN AIR.


Certainly there must be other other magicians who can afford to rent a crane and do some video editing for their illusion of levitation.

So where are they?


BINGO



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by Paul_Richard
 


You show me the independant footage of Criss Angel (from the hundreds of unbiased witness you guys claim are at his stunts) and Ill show you the crane in that footage.

You show me footage with the skyline above CA during his levitations and ill show you the crane

As for the wires, they are as thin as fishing line and tough as thick guage cable.



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by InSpiteOf
You show me the independant footage of Criss Angel (from the hundreds of unbiased witness you guys claim are at his stunts) and Ill show you the crane in that footage.

What is your definition of independent?

Surely, anyone who has seen Criss Angel and who has filmed him would be suspect to be a paid employee. Like all the photographs that eyewitnesses took and which are featured in his MindFreak show of him levitating above the Luxor Hotel. Surely, they were all paid off and all those photos were faked.

If that be the case, then why hasn't anyone else done it?

Why haven't other magicians paid-off many people to lie about seeing them levitate high in the air in their own street magic-type videos?

Or EVEN ONE doing that?



Originally posted by InSpiteOf
You show me footage with the skyline above CA during his levitations and ill show you the crane.

The skyline is clearly visible in the video of CA levitating above a golf course. So visible in fact, that one can see a UFO in the distance. However, there is no wires or crane in sight.

(Anyone can go to my reference page link in my signature to view that and other related videos.)

Care to produce some images for us?



[edit on 10-1-2008 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Ignorance is a problem that some here in ATS strive to alleviate.



So you think it is ignorant to base our "beliefs" on logic and facts?

In that case, how would you define someone, who believes something so hard, he is unwilling to even consider a different explanation?

Of course if you're all knowing and enlightened, why should you...

But what is your definition of enlightenment? Is it believing what feels good?

Would you, as an enlightened individual, be so kind as to answer these few "philosophical" questions? Share some of that light with us mortals please.

Another question would be, why the "skeptics" always ask believers to please provide some evidence other than wishfull thinking, so they themselves could start believing it as well, while the believers always have to resort to calling them ignorant, when these questions are asked?


I would also like to ask you how long you have spent studying spirituality so far and what you have learned, other than beliefs?



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 03:42 PM
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You will be ignored now yes. I imagine this being like a mental institute - you and EW86 being the patients. We are trying to feed you your medicine but you're having none of it. Absolute ignorance. Ignorance to the blatant obvious truth that your claims hold no truth whatsoever. It's so frustrating speaking to you and EW86 who resemble a brick wall in mentality and rational thinking. None.

Let's break it down as it might sink into the fairytale head you call home. Imagine if you will, (for somebody thinking a person can fly when his footage is edited, so you should be fine) I was in court. I was found guilty of something and so presented my case using video footage that my team had edited down for television purposes. IT'S BEEN EDITED DOWN. MY TEAM HAS PICKED MY BEST PARTS THAT MAKE ME LOOK GOOD - TO GET OFF THE CASE FREE.

Then let's switch it to this case, regarding Mr Angel - Jesus reborn. How on Gods precious Earth, do you actually think that footage from his company is concrete proof? The courts wouldn't accept it and neither will I quite frankly. It's absolutely laughable. It's beyond all rational thinking and flows swiftly into the new age thinkers - YOU! When has he done it in a controlled environment? When as there been independent people there present? It's all for television and you think the footage hasn't been touched and that the cameras are just randomly positioned? Then Mr Cliff Richard, you're more deluded that I first thought, and trust me I thought you were lost in the first place! Now, you're beyond saving!



You see, I'm not for or against Criss Angel. What I am against is absolute twits like yourself, spouting nonsense without cold hard facts. I really can't understand why page, after page, after page you say the same things. I really don't bother to read your posts anymore, because you say the same thing over and over and over. NONSENSE! For example...mmm "he doesn't fly, he levitates high above the ground" - that's bloody flying! It's all fairytale nonsense. Get your head out of the spiritual books for a bit Paul and stay with us. Try thinking for yourself. (Now comes the reply that he indeed does think for himself and is highly enlightened.) Pull the other one!
Your mind is so open Paul, that idea's simply pass through it!

I've yet to see, after this entire thread a piece of concrete evidence. Not one. Please, for the love of god, supply me a piece! I'd love to see without any question that he is indeed a man of miracles. A man who can swoop across buildings with the grace that only a bird graced with feathers would have (except for the wobbles when the strings sway.) I ask for pure evidence Paul! CAN YOU SUPPLY ME IT? SPEAK WITH THE SPIRIT PAUL, GO! - THEY WILL KNOW THE TRUTH AND FOR WHERE IT HIDES ITS FACE!

You constantly undermine us, and no I know you won't lose sleep over me losing respect for you. If a man thought about me much, quite frankly I'd be scared, so thank you Paul! Brains aren't everything. In fact in your case they're nothing. So I'd rather be 'less enlightened,' if it means I respect other peoples opinions! I'm not sure...is it the books, the life you lead, or the your past. I don't know what makes you so dumb but it really works!


YOU JUST CAN'T SEE THAT YOU'VE SUPPLIED NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER, YET STILL YAP ON LIKE AN ANNOYING LITTLE DOG THAT YOU JUST WANT TO KICK INTO TOUCH!

I don't think you are a fool, but what's my opinion compared to that of thousands of others.

[edit on 10-1-2008 by Arawn]



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by deezee
I would also like to ask you how long you have spent studying spirituality so far and what you have learned, other than beliefs?

In this body...since the 1970s.

In the Spirit prior to this life...for centuries.

I was one of a number of people in the Sixth or Seventh Planes who were a major pain in the arse to many large discarnate communities on the Fourth. We would descend into their city of light and teach those who were willing to listen. The ruling committees would hate us for disrupting their agendas and weakening the unity of their collective.

But that is all in the past.

You don't need to just take my word for any of this.

If you are up to the task of becoming a spiritual medium, you can learn to communicate with the discarnates that comprise the Group Entities that grant people like Criss Angel a Gift of Chi-Telekinesis.

Start out by visiting those with a Gift of Healing. Learn to see and/or perceive the Dominant Aura Color of the healing energies being channeled. Usually they are yellow in color. When you can see and/or perceive those energy colors, you are well on your way toward personal verification.


With time and experience, you will come to know who has a genuine Gift of the Spirit and who does not, simply from the energies around the person, both felt and by the energy colors. Spiritual Correspondence with discarnate Saints is also very important to cultivate, as they provide invaluable insight.

Then you will be able to see people like Criss Angel clearly as channelers of the energy of discarnate communities - angel prophets at best - and not masters, gurus, messiahs, etc.


EDIT: Yep, I was right. Arawn can't put us on his ignore list.


[edit on 10-1-2008 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
EDIT: Yep, I was right. Arawn can't put us on his ignore list.



I was hoping you'd give me something to laugh about before bedtime. If you're not going to oblige, then I'll pop you on it now mate if you'd like?




posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by deezee
I would also like to ask you how long you have spent studying spirituality so far and what you have learned, other than beliefs?

In this body...since the 1970s.


Ok, can you please list some of the verifyable abilities you've mastered in all this time? Something that can't be attributed to coincidence or placebo effect.

I'm asking you seriously.

I've been actively involved with this stuff for many years and spent a lot of time training some of these abilities.

I've witnessed and achieved many things that seemed incredible and impossible at that time. I could make a list of them if you like.

But still, i'm a skeptic, especially when i hear ridiculous explanations of stuff like this, based on imagination and wishfull thinking.

If any of this is true, it can not be explained by "mystic vibrations", "higher dimensions" and other examples of scientific term abuse.

I prefer logical explanations and believe simple is always better.

You know.. The Occams razor and the KISS principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid!)



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
You show me footage with the skyline above CA during his levitations and ill show you the crane.

The skyline is clearly visible in the video of CA levitating above a golf course. So visible in fact, that one can see a UFO in the distance. However, there is no wires or crane in sight.

(Anyone can go to my reference page link in my signature to view that and other related videos.)

Care to produce some images for us?


[edit on 10-1-2008 by Paul_Richard]


Well there is a split second in that video where you can blatantly see the shadow of the crane. Notice how he never mentions the word "crane" when he' talking about people saying he uses "helecopters, planes". They are clever at hiding the shadow, by not showing the particular side the shadow lands on for the most part, but obviously didn't edit it that well. You can even see the operators compartment. It's not the best cap and my use of paint to point out the obvious leaves alot to be desired, but watch the video and at 2:30 you can see the shadow.






You can also see where his coat is distorted and 'pointy like' (?)
at the shoulders, before he is lifted up. My guess is that this is where the wires for the harness are coming out, but that's another matter.

[edit on 10-1-2008 by Xeros]



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 04:22 PM
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Here's another example of "minor, inconsequential editing" on yet another illusion. Criss never edits his videos though, it's his production team.

I notice you never see fit to answer any real questions still. Still believe CA's never edits his illusions?



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by Paul_Richard
 


BTW: I would still like to hear your answers on my other questions.

I hope you're not avoiding them.


EDIT: I will repeat my questions, so you know what i meant:

So you think it is ignorant to base our "beliefs" on logic and facts?

1. In that case, how would you define someone, who believes something so hard, he is unwilling to even consider a different explanation?

Of course if you're all knowing and enlightened, why should you...

2. But what is your definition of enlightenment? Is it believing what feels good?

Would you, as an enlightened individual, be so kind as to answer these few "philosophical" questions? Share some of that light with us mortals please.

3. Another question would be, why the "skeptics" always ask believers to please provide some evidence other than wishfull thinking, (so they themselves could start believing it as well), while the believers always have to resort to calling them ignorant, when these questions are asked?

And i'll add a fourth question here...

4. How is it not ignorant to believe you have ALL the answers? A famous philosopher once said "The only thing i know for sure is that i know nothing."


I would really like your oppinion on these subjects.


Thanks!

[edit on 10-1-2008 by deezee]



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by deezee
Ok, can you please list some of the verifyable abilities you've mastered in all this time? Something that can't be attributed to coincidence or placebo effect.

I could.

However, it would be like trying to describe the color green to a blind person.


Which is why I went the route of guidance in suggesting that you develop into a spiritual medium and achieve personal verification.

In which case, you would not just have to take my word for it anymore.


Now, isn't that better?

I think so.


EDIT: I think that I will take the advice that you offer in your signature.



[edit on 10-1-2008 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 07:48 PM
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reply to post by Xeros
 

I'm sorry.

What you furthered is hardly convincing.

Even for someone like me who likes to seek the limitations of logical extrapolation.


EDIT: Question to Pavil and Xeros...

If it is all video tricks and paid-off witnesses, then why has no other magician in the entire world done high levitations in the open air and made a video of it? If it is all that easy to do, that is.


Hmmm?



[edit on 10-1-2008 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Now go find us a site which explains in detail how he does his high aerial acts of 500 feet off the ground and flying around a golf course.

Yeah...good luck with that.


and i suppose that, because David Copperfield can make the statue of liberty disappear, he as well is one of these gifted beings. Hell, i bet i could convince you I was someone with gifts from some "fourth plane" beings if i tried.


Originally posted by Paul_Richard
This question saved you from being added to my ignore list.


Your arrogance makes you the first on mine.


*eyewitness is soon to follow*



Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by SleightlyDicey
I'm just an educated sixteen year old.

Well, that explains it.


Come off your pedestal bud. Everything you state is a logical fallacy.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard.
The "mastery" of his Chi is really indicative of a sociological achievement - being elected to a position - not one of spiritual attainment.


So, i suppose this occurred with all the traditional Shaolin Warrior Monks that had developed and trained their chi. You have taken that word and totally twisted it's origins. You are not granted chi. You strengthen and cultivate it. Do some research that doesn't involve members.aol.com. ahaha.


Originally posted by Paul_Richard
...Adolph Hitler. He had a Gift of Prophecy...


Oh yeah, forgot about that. I suppose that's why he thought attacking Russia was a good idea, thus bringing the war on two fronts (must not have learned from WW1). Actually, it was the Soviets that ended up taking Berlin, and effectively ended the war.
Great prophet.


And the whole "gift of charm" thing... Take some basic courses in sociology and psychology. Along with a grade 10 history course. That will explain his whole "gift." I'm sure Jimmy Jones was celestially gifte as well right? =P


Originally posted by Paul_Richard.
...who understands how discarnate sociology and human nature operates.


Really? I suppose you went to school for psychology and sociology? Certified in NLP? I highly doubt it, or you would have a better grasp on your ignorance. You have proven you know nothing about human nature. New Age BS Carolyne Myss books aren't research. And i have read enough of them to know.


Originally posted by Paul Richard
Are you going to swallow your adolescent ego and learn from all this?


Get over yourself.

for further research:

www.tenthdimension.com
www.skeptic.com
www.ellusionist.com...

Deny Ignorance alright


[edit on 10/1/08 by SleightlyDicey]



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Question to Pavil and Xeros...

If it is all video tricks and paid-off witnesses, then why has no other magician in the entire world done high levitations in the open air and made a video of it? If it is all that easy to do, that is.


Hmmm?



[edit on 10-1-2008 by Paul_Richard]


The way I see it is that it's not at all easy to do and only works when decieving the televisual audience, it's alot of hassle.
He needs a space clear of public who can suss him out and then fill that space with payed actors (bad ones imo
). He then needs a crane, carefully choreographed camera angles and reactions. They probably need everyone to sign a confidentiality agreement. After they need to digitally edit the wires out add sound effects (huge cheering crowd).
I think Chris Angel is different (to put it niceley) in alot of respects to other magicians and most don't employ these TV (only) friendly deceptions. Chris Angel has been proven to fake other tricks using actors and/or digital editing techniques. Once you know how a trick is done it's plain to see that actors must be there eg:-

**Spoiler Ahead!!**




Not trying to rain anyones parade or anything (I'm sure I'm not though
) I still find it entertaining. I just don't think he can genuinely levitate.



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

If it is all video tricks and paid-off witnesses, then why has no other magician in the entire world done high levitations in the open air and made a video of it? If it is all that easy to do, that is.


Hmmm?



Well probably because No other magician has Solely made their name for themselves by just staging made for TV events.. I mean, even David Copperfield went on the road doing performances.

Most magicians seem to like performing in front of an audience more than CA does. Sure he does some physical demonstrations in front of large audiences but he does not regularly put on performances until his Cirque Show starts. He has built his whole following almost solely on his TV show. There is a progression you can see in his illusions as he made more money, they got fancier and more elaborate but at the same time if you really look at the amount of people he "performs" the high levitations, they are actually very small in comparison to the amount of people who would go see it, considering his popularity at the time. CA has yet to perform that "high Levitation" to a paying viewing public in a show. They have intentionally done them in out of the way places to avoid such a crowd.

I get the distinct feeling that magicians don't like to repeat others signature tricks and would rather do their own special one. It sort of like being the Second and Third persons to walk on the Moon.... Quick quiz who were they? Nobody remembers someone doing a thing a second time. Even if they do it's the "oh...that's nice" reaction.

Add on top of that the the illusion itself is not the cheapest thing to do and that eliminates all but the very top Magicians ie the Copperfields, Burtons, S and R, Blaine, ect.... They all have their own niche and don't want to be seen as imitators. The reason CA shows how to do the Balducci is probably a side wise slam at David Blaine, his main competition in the TV magician/physical stunt field and his main competition for TV contracts.

BTW the answers are Buzz Aldrin and Pete Conrad.
As, I've said before CA is very good at what he does but always remember this: When A magician says something in the middle of his performance, it's probably to misdirect you for seeing something.

We have conclusively proved that CA does in fact edit some of his video performances, even though he says he doesn't. You have even admitted as such. We have conclusively prooved that he has as times used the same assistants multiple times, posing as members of the "crowd", claiming to have never met CA before. You have even admitted as such. We have conclusively prooved that some of those same audiences amazinginly seem to have the same people in them at numereous demonsrtations.

When it really comes down to it, quite honestly, you both look rather foolish defending your belief, even in the face of the ever mounting evidence we have provided and especially considering CA's own multiple statements on these type of matters, he definetly is a skeptic when it comes to supernatural things.

You keep believing though.



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
I could.
However, it would be like trying to describe the color green to a blind person.


My specific question was "verifiable abilities". The verifiable ones can not be compared to describing a colour to a blind person. Why? Because they can be verified.

Could you really?


Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Which is why I went the route of guidance in suggesting that you develop into a spiritual medium and achieve personal verification.
In which case, you would not just have to take my word for it anymore.


Obviously you've missed the part, where i mentioned that i also spent many years studying this field and training these abilities.
But i still prefer choosing logic over wishfull thinking for explanation.


Originally posted by Paul_Richard
EDIT: I think that I will take the advice that you offer in your signature.


Again someone, who thinks being spiritual means being condescending...
I wonder which school of thought teaches bloating your ego as path to enlightenment...


For an enlightened person you really do avoid a lot of questions.
You haven't even answered one. Do you not even see the ones, that can not be answered in a way to further show how high above us mere mortals you really are?

It is my honour to be basking in the shadow of your bloatedness!

[edit on 11-1-2008 by deezee]



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 01:45 AM
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Originally posted by SleightlyDicey

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
This question saved you from being added to my ignore list.


Your arrogance makes you the first on mine.


Oh, come on... You were SAVED from being added to an enlightened person's Ignore list.. Show some respect. Maybe he will continue to shine his enlightenment on you.


Originally posted by SleightlyDicey
Really? I suppose you went to school for psychology and sociology? Certified in NLP? I highly doubt it, or you would have a better grasp on your ignorance. You have proven you know nothing about human nature. New Age BS Carolyne Myss books aren't research. And i have read enough of them to know.

Give the new agers a break..
Sooner or later they are faced with a choice, either to accept there are no verifyable paranormal abilities, or to believe Criss Angel can fly. Why else would they cling so hard to this particular illusionist?

I mean, i would understand if they said "Levitation IS possible.", but clinging to an illusionist for support of their beliefs just shows how desperate they really are to believe.

How bout we leave them their unicorns any mystic vibrations?
Especially since they're obviously unable to even discuss things that don't bloat their egos or directly support their wishfull thinking.



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