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criss angel discussion...

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posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 08:39 AM
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And your probability that he is JUST an illusionist is based upon WHAT??? All the evidence you have seen and presented? No, can't be that..let's see...aha!! I have it!! It is based upon your imagination!! Great source!!




posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 09:09 AM
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Ya it is a great source, you used it through this entire thread as the basis for your argument.

But thankfully, I rely on CA's own testimony, you remember the vid where he said he has no paranormal abilities.

Edit to add: The fact that you would question the source of such probability is actually kind of funny. Its funny because of the amount of times you said "The probability of CA using props is astronomically low" (paraphrase). And when asked for the statistical data to support your position, you just ignored the request and continued to tout it as a fact.

make you a deal: You present that statisitcal data and analysis and ill get it peer reviewed, if it holds up, ill concede this point to you. Thats right, I will openly admit it, hell Ill go a step further and suggest that if i was wrong on this point, maybe i was wrong on others!

Now surely, you cant pass up an opportunity to be vindicated as such! So please, do go ahead and share these data you have stored away.

[edit on 8-1-2008 by InSpiteOf]



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 10:02 AM
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I whipped out the episode of Criss Angel levitating across the the two buildings, good ol foxtel allows me to fast forward 2x 6x 12x etc.... I think on one scene where they show the whole feat from one camera angle, i fast forwarded it, and correct me if i am wrong, but i swear you can see Criss Swinging around in a spiral like formation as if subtly being moved by a hanging wire. If he had the power to levitate, it would be a really smooth progression, but not a pattern like spiraling going across the whole distance.

Also - he mentions the trick in Vegas on another episode of levitating a woman - i can't remember which one but i do remember what he said...

"I have to be careful how I do that one, if it wasn't controlled properly, or I make a mistake, a video could be put on to the internet for everyone to see, and then my career would be over'...something along those lines.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by Im a Marty
but i swear you can see Criss Swinging around in a spiral like formation as if subtly being moved by a hanging wire. If he had the power to levitate, it would be a really smooth progression, but not a pattern like spiraling going across the whole distance.


This issue was presented in one of the many "expose" videos we have posted.



Also - he mentions the trick in Vegas on another episode of levitating a woman - i can't remember which one but i do remember what he said...

"I have to be careful how I do that one, if it wasn't controlled properly, or I make a mistake, a video could be put on to the internet for everyone to see, and then my career would be over'...something along those lines.


I dont know about the quote (if you can find it for us, please do!) but the trick your talking about is probably the same trick in which members of this thread have identified the woman being levitated as being in another trick (a plant in other words.)

[edit on 8-1-2008 by InSpiteOf]



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 10:54 AM
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I find it an outrage that this discussion has lasted for two and a half years now, still it will not go away. I have been an insider to the magic scene for over 45 years now, performing, advising, inventing and working with and for a number of professional magicians. If Angel or any of the others could really fly, why would they still be approaching us inventors for the latest things we have available. It is a sad state of affairs in modern days when a magician can carry on a career, solely with pre-recorded T.V. specials, where the only audience members are paid extras and they get to film it on six cameras, so that they can edit the finished thing when they cock-up. Magicians " present or perform " a trick, or illusion which in most cases, was invented by someone else. In most cases they have paid for it. They are often given first refusal of an effect, if they then go on to include stooges, camera tricks, CGI, that is why you don`t see every other magician performing exactly the same thing. They have a budget which is often astronomical, so they can afford to spend tons on spicing things up. I think it is sad when you see an illusion which is not performed from beginning to end, just the middle, to avoid showing that they had to be hoisted to the top of a building and strapped on for ages to stop them from falling, then all of a sudden they can fly! Angel by name, just another magician by nature, he will make the same mistake as many before and become too cocky, then boom, no-one will want to know. He will be selling instructional DVDs on how to appear to be floating above yet another tall building
" projecting " his thoughts to the heavens.

[edit on 8-1-2008 by Qwenn]

[edit on 8-1-2008 by Qwenn]

[edit on 8-1-2008 by Qwenn]



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 05:08 PM
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There is no evidence whatsoever that Criss has ever approached a supplier of tricks of any type to outfit him for the high levitations. There is no evidence that Criss uses props in those events. LOOK at the GOILF COURSE video and stop fooling around. It is daylight. There are NO props. The witnesses are NOT paid off strangers who remain loyal forever..get a grip.

Criss levitated and all present and filing saw it. The video was not altered in any way. No proof of anything except what you see is there. There is NO evidence or witnesses that Criss uses props in the events under discussion. Only the imagination of the deniers provides them with anything that they could call' proof '. Imaginary proof is not proof. Hope this helps you get thinking right again.

No matter what you say, you never seem to grasp the fact that NOT ONE other human being can do what Criss does. If anyone else could, they WOULD!! You know that!! If he could be outdone by some up and coming performer, he WOULD be outdone. Do you really think that all other performers are content to let Criss always dominate the field? Do you?

There are dozens of ' anomalies ' that you deniers just cannot get around, so you slither away and ignore the really telling points or answer them with silly foolishness. You are so sure that there are props there, but the fact that they cannot be seen or touched or photographed or witnessed or alleged must be a real craw in your eye...that is IF you actually care about intellectual honesty at all; most deniers do NOT. They will boldly claim as real something that is only imaginary to them..so sad.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
They will boldly claim as real something that is only imaginary to them..so sad.



You do have a knack for saying things that really apply to you, I must give you credit for that. You still provide nothing other than the videos CA production team feeds you as the basis for your belief.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 02:47 AM
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Eyewitness86, You say that there is no evidence that Chris Angel has ever approached a magical supplier for any of his illusions, I beg to differ. Do you know the names of any magical inventors or advisors, have you approached them to ask if this is the case, where is YOUR proof that you want other people to believe. I doubt if you even know the names of any magic suppliers, although these people serve the amatuer market mostly. You do no just walk into a local magic shop and say, " oh and by the way I also want the trick where you levitate over the Grand Canyon. These things are often sold under license to the highest bidder, as one offs, it`s often many years before the magician involved writes up notes for submission to The Magic Castle archives, for posterity. A magical inventor will not go around telling the general public or press that they have sold this and that to such and such, that is financial suicide. The magical advisor then steps in to help test and develop the effect. Sorry to tell you this but the rigourous testing that must take place before this type of effect is sold to a magician, means that by the time Chris Angel takes to the skies, you can bet that there has been at least half a dozen people that have been there before him, health a safety, financial contracts, network commitment contracts, an inventor does not want to have his backside sued off.

I think that you perhaps need to take a step backwards on this one and take a breather, if you are intent on projecting Psychic and Paranormal abilities onto a person, with only a minimal amount of evidence, then how can any fellow members take any future views of yours seriously.

[edit on 9-1-2008 by Qwenn]



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 11:34 AM
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As usual, you are asking that a negative be proven..and that is not honest. How am I supposed to proive that Criss does NOT use props when video mproof doesn't metter to you and eyewitness testimony means nothing to you, and the absolute lack of any proofs on YOUR poart mean nothing to you? You have the deck stacked, and that is not a fair game.

If you are alleging that Criss uses props in the hiogh levitations, then by God you should be the ones tgrying to find PROOF of such, but instaed you simply throw it all off on me..how lazy and silly!! WHY can't even ONE of you find the people who will attest to the imaginings you spout? WHY can't even ONE of you show us props that can account for the Luxor or Golf Course events? Hmm? You know why. It is because there ARE NO PROPS that can account for it. There are NO invisible wires and invisible helicopters to hang them from. There are no paid witnesses and staff.

There is no film of rops, and there is no one who has seen or can attest to any props. OF COURSE you STILL refuse to discuss the ' coincidental ' total lack of anyone else on earth doing the same thing. If Criss is using props that no one can see ot attest to, then surely someone else on earth could find and use the same rig to duplicate Criss events. BUT NO!! Not one person has ever even attempted top duplicate Criss events, even though EVERY OTHER illusionist making a living at it has their stunts duplicated by others..Criss always seems to be in this one special category, doesn't he? No one ever reproduces his events..not even close.

No one has EVER produced ONE sliver of proof that Criss uses props in the high levitations..none. Yet you deniers all seem to be so SURE of your ability to discern the truth..no evidence, but you are sure..no proofs, but you are sure. WHY? I know why..do you? Here it is:

There are some people who cannot grasp the fact that not all human beings are bound by the ' laws ' of physics . That is it. They cannot grasp it, so they deny it. Imagine even a genius from the past being brought forward to today and being shown a car: He might spend days trying to comprehend the various things that make it go: He cannot comprehend refinementy of fossil fuels into gasoline, or the way spark plugs deliver intermittent sparks, or how the air conditioner works..it would be an incredible revelation to someone unfamiliar with our technology, right>

Well, there are ' technologies ' or realities, that we as mere humans at this stage cannot grasp simply due to the fact that we are UNFAMILIAR WITH THE PRECEPTS THAT CAUSE IT TO OCCUR. We would NOT be shocked by Criss levitating if we had been exposed to the concepts when we were little , now would we? If we saw someone levitating now and then , it would not be a big deal; we would accept it as part of the myriad of human experiences that we cannot explore fully while only using 10% of our brains!! If Criss is using 11%, then that would account for it, naturally. Or, it could be spiritual beings and efforts that accomplish it.

Whatever the case. what is plain and clear is this:Since not ONE other human being has ever replicated Criss events, using props or not, and since not ONE human being has everproved or displayed or shown how Criss could do the events WITH props that cannot be seen..and since not ONE human being has ever accused ( with authority ) Criss of any of the tricks you accuse him of..and since the ' props ' at the Luxor and golf course events cannot be seen in spite of the fact that Criss was bathed in the brightest light on earth for all to see and film from many angles...I will accept the fact that no props were used.

If YOU wish to believe in that which cannot be seen, touched, filmed or validated by anyone who is in a position to do so, then that says a lot about YOU, but nothing about Criss.

Just think about this:

On the golf course video: You would have top believe that : Criss used props that cannot be seen. Criss used witnesses that were paid off and who will remain silent forever. Criss fooled everyone present and all the cameras..OR he simply pays everyone off. But how does a guy who has to pay off witnesses make a living? His live stage shows are where he makes his money..and does the same things live. Does he pay off those audiences also? See how crazy it gets? you have to believe in multiple conspiracies, many so silly that they are not even funny, to believe that Criss can fake all he does and still manage to wow people all the time. It makes no sense.

But then again, what does common sense and evidence have to do with the deniers creed of : Pretend that nothing is evidence. Ignore all proof given to you. Insist that you are right no matter how little proof you have. Assume that you know ALL about the physical and spiritual realms, and how each one operates despite the fact that this cannot be true. Keep denying and denying and insisting that the ' other guy ' produce the proof that YOU need!! Unreal..one thing you guys do have is nerve..gaul..not much else but a lot of that.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 11:38 AM
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Does anyone have DVR (I think that is what it is called)? My son has it and if you watch Chris Angel and slow down his antics, you will see alot of things he cleverly does that you won't see just watching it in regular mode.

We have seen him in slow motion when watching a recorded show and you can catch him at his clever tricks.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
But how does a guy who has to pay off witnesses make a living? His live stage shows are where he makes his money..and does the same things live.Does he pay off those audiences also? See how crazy it gets? you have to believe in multiple conspiracies, many so silly that they are not even funny, to believe that Criss can fake all he does and still manage to wow people all the time. It makes no sense.


Really? He does high levitations during his stage shows? Which shows would those be? Please provide the evidence you have that attests to this, or are you just assuming he does high levitations live?



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 01:10 PM
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It all involves a little know element, called ethics. Honest magicians will refuse to turn to cgi, stooges, camera tricks, etc. The profession suffers from all of the dishonest people who have been drawn to it. I can see that even if concrete proof were shown to you, including footage of testing of effects, you would refuse to accept that they were the same thing. The TV networks are the ones paying for all of the big illusions, as for perfoming at a live theatre, you need to realise that the front three or four rows are made up of fellow magicians, family, friends etc. They have their tickets pre-booked by the local magical societies, then they are distributed by them. Sorry to burst your bubble but this magician is not the new messiah.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 01:21 PM
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I see that Eyewitness86 is still doing a very good job in this thread in offering illumination about the illusionist and telekinetic, Criss Angel.

Glad there are those that do.

Definitely a service to The Light.


Well done EW




Once more I would like to opine on this heated issue.

The argument was offered that there are magicians who use high-tech equipment to perform levitations. That's quite true. An example of that would be David Copperfield.

However, that is simply not the case with Criss Angel's high levitations.

Point 1:

David Copperfield and the other magicians who do high levitations - beyond the Balducci illusion - always perform them in a controlled stage environment, not on city sidewalks, golf courses, or in public parks like Criss Angel.

Why?

Point 2:

NO ONE ANYWHERE performs the high levitations of Criss Angel IN THE OPEN AIR.

Not any magician or mentalist, not Cyril Takayama, David Blaine, Derren Brown, John of God, Uri Geller, Ramana, Ehud Segev, any Qigong practitioner, Kung Fu practitioner, Swami, or Fakir. NOBODY. Why don't we see ANYONE ANYWHERE - other than CA - flying around golf courses and across buildings?

Point 3:

If it were all a matter of the highest bidder purchasing the latest, state-of-the-art equipment, then why haven't any veteran magicians, decades older and richer than Criss Angel, perform high levitations when Criss Angel was only Christopher Nicholas Sarantakos, before he became famous and wealthy from his unparalleled performances?

Point 4:

If everyone is paid off to lie about his illusion of high levitation, they why hasn't anyone else done the same thing? Again, why haven't veteran magicians decades older and richer than Criss Angel come out with their own manipulated street magic videos and paid off eyewitnesses?


Let me guess...

Criss Angel is actually is a high ranking officer in the US Central Intelligence Agency and/or National Security Agency and will only let his inner circle of operatives have access to his acquired alien anti-gravity pack.


That's about as good as the theories I've seen to try to dismiss Criss Angel's apparent Gift of Chi-Telekinesis.


Having a Gift of the Spirit doesn't make one a god or a messiah...just a channeler. True lesser gods would be much more powerful in and of The Light


I highly doubt that in the entire world no one is wealthier than Criss Angel and that no one else has access to the high-tech equipment that one leases or purchases for stage levitations.



[edit on 9-1-2008 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Having a Gift of the Spirit doesn't make one a god or a messiah...just a channeler. True lesser gods would be much more powerful in and of The Light


I don't understand why you are saying he's this and that, when Criss has never said it himself. It's damn well strange!


Where has he ever said he has the 'gift of the spirit'? Oh, I see...it's what you believe isn't it.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by Arawn
 

Go to my reference links page in my signature. There you will find a link to a Fox News interview of Criss Angel by John Gibson. There he says that a lot of what he does is an illusion and a lot of what he does is real, and that he leaves it to the individual to determine which is which.

If one is versed in the Gifts of the Spirit, it is obvious that Criss Angel is more than just an illusionist. If one is ignorant to the Gifts of the Spirit, then one hasn't a clue as to what is happening. If one is prejudiced against anyone having a Gift of the Spirit and mechanistic and/or materialistic in one's thinking, then one will always try to label his high levitations an illusion.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 01:52 PM
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Oh joy, Mr. Richards has come back too, I guess we only have ourselves to blame for opening this scabbed up wound again. Oh well.

To both of the CA "gift" believers, other than CA's own videos from his TV specials what other DIRECT EVIDENCE do you have that SUPPORTS your claims of his POWERS?

I want direct reference to CA, not any other "mystic", please provide your evidence that CA has the "gift" other than his videos. We have already shown you that he edits his videos and use's "stooges" in the audience, pretending not to be "in' on the illusion, so his video performances will not prove your case.

Have you spoken to anyone at any of his "high levitation's" for example? If so I am sure they would be willing to come on to this forum and relate that "experience" to all of us. Right? You claim many people in the videos have witnessed them, yet none see fit to post ever on the internet......Very odd considering what a "profound" event it must have been.

My and others I'm sure, main contention with the two of you is that you NEVER provide support for your argument that is directly related to CA, even when we ask you to respond to direct inquires about specific things. It's very frustrating when your don't give us anything to debate other than your beliefs, we provide you with our and other's analysis of CA's videos and you just brush them off, yet provide no counter argument to support your side.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by Paul_Richard
 


Thanks, I'm not close minded, quite the opposite in fact. It's just that I've never seen him say he has gift of spirit. You prove to me that he still hasn't said it.

Well done




posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by pavil
Oh joy, Mr. Richards has come back too, I guess we only have ourselves to blame for opening this scabbed up wound again. Oh well.

Thank you Mr. Pavil.

I'll keep popping back in until I see some DIRECT EVIDENCE to back up the claims of the deniers like yourself.



Originally posted by pavil
I want direct reference to CA, not any other "mystic", please provide your evidence that CA has the "gift" other than his videos.

Show me a non-mystic who is progressive enough to understand the reality of Gifts and also one who is knowledgeable about telekinesis, and you will have another good source to explain Criss Angel's high levitations


But that would the person explaining it a mystic also.

Only those who are progressive AND knowledgeable (if not also experienced) have an inkling as to what is happening with those aerial performances.


Originally posted by pavil
We have already shown you that he edits his videos and use's "stooges" in the audience, pretending not to be "in' on the illusion, so his video performances will not prove your case.

My dear Mr. Pavil, no one else, not any magician, illusionist, or mentalist IN THE ENTIRE WORLD has managed to do the same as Criss Angel in his high levitations. If they could, they would. Too much money is to be had for those that can.

And thus, your argument falls to pieces.


Originally posted by pavil
Have you spoken to anyone at any of his "high levitation's" for example?

Eyewitness86 spoke with a man who actually works at the Luxor Hotel, the site where Criss Angel did his 500 feet high levitation OUTSIDE and his levitation INSIDE the world's largest atrium. That man, if you recall, said that there was no props or special gadgetry installed in the hotel for Criss Angel.

But the deniers like yourself dismiss that testimony.

The deniers are terrible analysts and need to take a course in inductive and deductive reasoning. That would help.

No matter, there will always be people like EW86 and myself in ATS to occasionally shake and illuminate the foundation of the metaphysically biased and/or unenlightened.




posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by InSpiteOf
 



Of COURSE he cannot do high levitations is stage shows, and you know it. What he can do and does is more limited levitations and he walks the walls, as he sometimes does outside and in full view of many witnesses. He does scaled down version because of the limited space. But you knew that.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
No matter, there will always be people like EW86 and myself in ATS to occasionally shake and illuminate the foundation of the metaphysically biased and/or unenlightened.


The trouble is Paul Richard, you're not enlightening anyone here. We all think you and EW86 are completely bonkers!



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