criss angel discussion...

All his tricks are optical illusions. Simple trickery! Its entertaining.

Originally posted by pavil
You can't concede that he just "might" have something to hide under it?

Please elaborate on what he might be attached to and what would be holding him up in his high levitations.

Originally posted by pavil
Sigh, I have reviewed all the links. Please just once show me a video that clearly shows the 200-300 feet above CA as he Levitates.

He still would need some kind of wires or harness, neither of which are shown in any of the videos.

Originally posted by pavil
When you edit your own show, you get to dictate the reality you portray.

I have no show at the present time.

However, if or when that happens, I will publicly announce - just as has Criss Angel has - that I use no camera or editing tricks and that what the spectators see is exactly what is captured on film. And that will be the absolute truth, just as it is with Criss Angel.

You offer us no plausible explanation of how he is doing it. You have no pictures of the aerial vehicle, wires, or harness. You offer us only the speculation that Criss Angel likes to wear a jacket when he levitates.

That is very poor evidence.

Originally posted by pavil
You provide a shot of CA doing the levitation without the jacket and with a clear shot of the air above him in an uninterrupted shot and then I will concede to you the TK.

E-mail him that request via his website.

Originally posted by pavil
Until both of those are done, the most logical conclusion is a Stunt/Illusion done with a harness and wires with clever camera editing. If he could TK then he should be able to do it in mid air going through a large clear Plexiglas tunnel correct?

He has gone through a glass window before, as well as a fan on a rooftop. Both videos are online. Do a search.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Please elaborate on what he might be attached to and what would be holding him up in his high levitation's.

Stop sounding so coy, he would have a harness on under his jacket attached by wires to some sort of thing (platform, Helicopter, atrium roof).

He still would need some kind of wires or harness, neither of which are shown in any of the videos.

Of course not silly, It would ruin the ILLUSION if CA showed you the harness or the wires. High Tensions wires used for "wire work" can be very small and hard to see. How do you think they do the effects in the movies?

I have no show at the present time.

I'll type slowly and clearly then so there can be no misunderstanding.... I was talking about CA being in full editorial control of his show.

You offer us no plausible explanation of how he is doing it. You have no pictures of the aerial vehicle, wires, or harness. You offer us only the speculation that Criss Angel likes to wear a jacket when he levitates.

Huh? I have offered a very plausible explanation and you still have not presented me a video of CA doing a "high Levitation" without a long sleeve jacket on nor have you shown me a video showing a non stop cut of CA levitating then panning out to to show the 200-300 feet above him. BTW it is not speculation that CA likes to wear a jacket for this Illusion, it is a documented video fact till you present him doing one without a long sleeve jacket.

E-mail him that request via his website.

Ha that one made me laugh. So by that I assume you could not find such evidence.

He has gone through a glass window before, as well as a fan on a rooftop. Both videos are online. Do a search.

And other Magicians/Illusionists have done the same....Do a search. Has CA done a levitation through a clear plexiglass tunnel in Mid Air? He must be able to do that if he can TK right?


www.metacafe.com...

Also check out the CA video, the store with a window with the OPEN sign has no other signage on it. Pretty weird for a business to not have any store sign isn't it? Look in the Room at the end of the video, it's pretty empy cept for a couple of chairs and a TV. It's pretty obvious that this is staged completely. Why don't they show the camera angle from inside the room? Just because you are not observant of details doesn't mean he can phase through glass.

pavil,

Same old rehash.

You offer us only speculation, and no evidence whatsoever that he has wires, harnesses, aerial vehicles, etc., that enable him to do his high levitations.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
pavil,

Same old rehash.

You offer us only speculation, and no evidence whatsoever that he has wires, harnesses, aerial vehicles, etc., that enable him to do his high levitations.

Whatever, you refuse to even attempt to answer my questions and then go to the tired "no proof" when you yourself have no proof of the TK that you claim. Notice CA does not claim that, only others like you do. I know I will not convince, your mind is made up. This is mainly for others who wonder "how does he do that?".

I still stand by my offer, show me a high levitation by CA that is done with out the need of a long sleeve shirt or jacket and show me at the same time an uninterrupted clear shot of CA levitating, then panning up 200-300 feet directly above him, showing no helicopter or other means above him and I will say he must be be using TK ok?

Look...we don't believe that all of Criss Angel's feats are from a Gift of Telekinesis, only that some of them are

Specifically, his high levitations.

That is what we are interested in the most, and that is what you need to provide evidence - outside of the mere speculation of him wearing a jacket - that he does those high levitations without wires, harnesses, aerial vehicles, etc. Especially since many in his videos - with other testimonial evidence, like that of 1 True Criss Angel Fan - attest that he does indeed float in the air and has done so on many occasions.

We also have no reason to believe that Criss Angel is lying when he says that he does not use camera or editing tricks of any kind.

Ok one final try with you. So out of the 6 Billion people currently in the world the only one who's TK powers are strong enough is a life long magician/Illusionist who just happens to have a very vested interest in doing successful "mindfreak" demonstrations and has a team of people around him to help him. You have already admitted basically that many of his things are illusions.

I don't disparage CA's abilities, he is quite fantastic at what he does, however he hasn't to the best of my knowledge, claimed the ability of TK and in fact has gone out of his way to show some common psychic cons.

You find it totally out of the realm of possiblity that a lifelong, extremely skilled Stage/Street Magician/Illusionist could pull of a high levitation without the need of any psychic abilities. Is that a fair statement? Give me a percentage of your belief that it is TK vs. Illusion.

Originally posted by pavil
Ok one final try with you. So out of the 6 Billion people currently in the world the only one who's TK powers are strong enough is a life long magician/Illusionist who just happens to have a very vested interest in doing successful "mindfreak" demonstrations and has a team of people around him to help him. You have already admitted basically that many of his things are illusions.

I assume you mean "strong enough to do high levitations."

That is a good question.

There are other telekinetics to be sure.

Like Uri Geller, Matthew Manning, The Amazing Kreskin (who I have seen personally when he performed), David Blaine, John Chang, etc.

But I have not seen any evidence that any of them have a Gift of Telekinesis that is strong enough for them to perform high levitations.

So yes, I surmise that at the present time, Criss Angel is PROBABLY the only person on the ENTIRE PLANET that has a Gift that is powerful enough to do high levitations.

Will he be the only one?

Of course not.

Originally posted by pavil
I don't disparage CA's abilities, he is quite fantastic at what he does, however he hasn't to the best of my knowledge, claimed the ability of TK and in fact has gone out of his way to show some common psychic cons.

As I have stated repeatedly, Criss Angel says that a lot of what he does is REAL and that he leaves it up to the audience to decide for themselves. He will not say directly that he has a Gift of TK because it is not worth it for him to do so. Better to laugh all the way to the bank with his unequaled levitations - which he does.

Originally posted by pavil
You find it totally out of the realm of possiblity that a lifelong, extremely skilled Stage/Street Magician/Illusionist could pull of a high levitation without the need of any psychic abilities. Is that a fair statement? Give me a percentage of your belief that it is TK vs. Illusion.

His high levitations are a result of his Gift of Telekinesis.

Many but not all of his minor feats are illusions. An example of this, as stated before, is his pulling apart a woman on a park bench.

There are various examples of his Gift of TK but the most impressive of these is his high levitations.

Thank you for your input.

He's very entertaining! He is amazing and sure there are things he is doing for real.

The Steamroller stunt was an Illusion, he said so himself on Larry King. He didn't reveal how it was done, just that he was really under it and it was a real roller.




[edit on 7-8-2007 by violet]

Criss tests his endurance as he attempts to escape mental institution restraints while wrapped tight in sheets, strapped on a gurney, in front of a live audience. Criss also levitates a manhole cover weighing over 100 pounds. For the first time ever, Criss runs into some serious trouble attempting one of Houdini's famous water escapes.

Criss Angel, tonight on A&E

I think this interview explains alot of what is being discusssed here.
"i don't have powers" quoted by Criss. Says he does not believe in the supernatural.

He's laughing at all the people who believe he has powers.

I think his message is trying to teach people that we can be fooled into believing anything.

I don't know how to embed the video
Video link interview

[edit on 7-8-2007 by violet]

Originally posted by violet
I think this interview explains alot of what is being discusssed here.
"i don't have powers" quoted by Criss. Says he does not believe in the supernatural.

He's laughing at all the people who believe he has powers.

I think his message is trying to teach people that we can be fooled into believing anything.

I don't know how to embed the video
Video link interview

[edit on 7-8-2007 by violet]

If this is the video Im thinking it is, it will be brushed off by PR. He will make it seem as if CA is using a play of words to cleaverly hide is ability.

Ignorant_ape pointed out an interesting double standard going on. PR says we have no reason to disbelieve CA when he says some of what he does is real, yet here apparently, we have to disbelieve what he says because is a clever ploy.

As pavil said, his mind is made up, so is eyewitness'.

Originally posted by violet
I think this interview explains alot of what is being discusssed here.
"i don't have powers" quoted by Criss. Says he does not believe in the supernatural.

I don't know how to embed the video
Video link interview

Wow, nice find....so there we have it directly from Chris Angel himself, he does not have any real powers.

I hope those that believed he really had super powers don't feel foolish...he is a very convincing magician.

I felt kinda bad posting it.
There must be a part 2 to it, maybe it will get posted too.

I'm curious what PR thinks. Will this change his views? Or will he still believe, and pass it off as CA having to maintain his secret indentity?

If I was a betting man I would say there are 2 people posting to this thread that will ignore or twist what he says in the video interview. Their belief as I have said many times in this thread is based more on Faith than anything else.

Hopefully they will be able to see and recognize the truth and understand that all their beliefs in the supernatural don't crumble just because CA is just an illusionist.

Case closed, NO ?

I think so, but I can't wait to see what else comes up in this thread.
It has been very entertaining.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
If this is the video Im thinking it is, it will be brushed off by PR. He will make it seem as if CA is using a play of words to cleaverly hide is ability.

You are correct in your assumption.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Ignorant_ape pointed out an interesting double standard going on. PR says we have no reason to disbelieve CA when he says some of what he does is real, yet here apparently, we have to disbelieve what he says because is a clever ploy.

That "clever ploy" enables him to laugh all the way to the bank and have more airtime on television than any magician or illusionist in history

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
As pavil said, his mind is made up, so is eyewitness'.

Shouldn't you guys be over at the new Qigong thread trying to disprove the impact and validity of Chi/Ki just as you attempted to disprove Criss Angel's levitation ability?

Over there one finds some support - from mystics and martial artists alike - for the power of Chi and Qigong in general.

When a person "has a lot of Chi" it indicates a powerful Gift of the Spirit. That Gift can translate into a number of telekinetic abilities, e.g., igniting paper, raising the temperature of a substance, indirectly and temporarily lessening one's body weight (an ability that the Qigong practitioner and Criss Angel share - how about that?), the ability to heal, and yes...the power of levitation.

Here's a tip that some mystics, Qigong and martial arts practitioners already know:

The ability to temporarily lessen one's body weight with Chi is actually an indirect and subtle form of levitation. Crank up the Chi and the body will float in the air.



[edit on 7-8-2007 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by violet
I felt kinda bad posting it.
There must be a part 2 to it, maybe it will get posted too.

I'm curious what PR thinks. Will this change his views? Or will he still believe, and pass it off as CA having to maintain his secret indentity?

I've heard the interview before as that was already covered in this thread.

See and hear...

Criss Angel Interview On Fox News With John Gibson

Regarding the radio interview, Criss Angel is playing his interviewer for the fool that he is, nothing more.



[edit on 7-8-2007 by Paul_Richard]

" He must have wires attached to some sort of thing..". See, P.R., how it comes and goes? We get a few Denier's and after a sound intellectual and logical thrashing they go away, at least temporarily, and are replaced by a few new Denier's who hang in there with the same old nonsense.

They simply cannot grasp that they are unable to demonstrate or indicate ANY of the invisible helicopters or platforms that they claim must be there. The LACK of evidence to them is just a non-issue!! Amazing. They cannot grasp what they are seeing and refuse to believe anything that challenges their belief systems, and so deny without shame.

It is so plain and clear to us, and so difficult for them to even begin to get a handle on;they just cannot believe that anyone can levitate without props, and so even though they cannot see any props, or any way that props could have been used without being visible, they insist that there really MUST be props!! Convoluted logic if there ever was any. I tell you, it really discourages me to see people writing such drivel and expect it to be regarded as some grand truth delivered from on high.

Where could the helicopter possibly be located that could hold Criss up and yet not be seen? The video clearly shows Criss suspended in the air, lit by the most powerful private light on earth, 42.3 BILLION candlepower, and yet even that much light cannot illuminate the minds of the denier's; they cannot see any effects or props, they cannot imagine how a man can do such things without props, and all this means to them is that there MUST be props!! It staggers the sound mind to see twisted logic like that applied to such issues, it is really sad.

And, to top it off, they are CONTENT to wallow in their lack of explanations, happy to be denying the evidence and stubbornly clinging to a failed and long ago exposed belief that props and supports and wires can be made to be invisible. Oh, yeah, I forgot, also they can fall back on the ' film editing ' straw man argument when their fallacious assumptions are shown to be totally bereft of any substance whatsoever.

Personally, I would be ASHAMED to admit that I believed that some Las Vegas performer could stump my imagination; the Denier's REVEL in it!! They accept that their imaginations are so limited that all they can do is presuppose invisible wires and helicopters and props that cannot be seen and for which NO evidence exists whatsoever!! How banal, how limited, how droll.

It is like trying to explain to someone from the 17th Century who popped into our era how a bicycle works: No matter how simple and logical one made their explanation, the visitor would probably just run in fear when they saw a man speeding along on some contraption with spokes and wheels..they would cliam it as some devilish monstrosity that had a demon riding atop it; their minds simply could not grasp a reality that they are totally unprepared for, and THAT is the key to all of the Denier's foolishness: they are simply unprepared to critique events such as the high levitations. They lack the open mindedness that is required for new insights and acceptance of paradigm shattering new realities.

It is pitiful really, when you think about it; it is the reason that we do not get ahead in this world, the 20-30 % of the people that are deadened to the possibilities that the human being possesses hold back the rest by their stubborn denial of the possibilities. Fox News watchers are perfect examples: They are the people who want to be assured and rocked to sleep with assurance despite the facts!! Some people will believe anything, even that a man can perform events that lack proof of props and still be fooling them while they accept the false assumption. How can a person be fooled so easily?
It is understandable; how many forward thinking people are really out there? Not enough as evidenced by the Denier's claims that props can be invisible and Criss is so smart that he can for many years keep every single person who has worked for him and that has seen his events up close and personal from talking. Loyalty is something that is hard won and does not rely on money; it is personal loyalty that keeps people silent, and to believe that Criss is so special that ALL of the employees and such are in on it and simply loyal to the death for Criss is more of a stretch than to believe that Criss can do the events without props!!

The odds alone dictate the truth: It is mathematically more likley that Criss can perform his high events without props than it is to believe that he can do them WITH props that cannot be seen or photographed and that all of the witnesses and employees are silent and loyal forever. That is just silly and an indication of the depth to which the Denier's will sink in their desperate attempt to assuage their minds that they are still in that comfy and well understood state of reality that they insist on defining for themselves and US as well!! The word' incongruous ' means NOTHING to them. Denial is a hard nut to crack and ONLY with an OPEN mind can the true realities even begin to be understood.

The quality of the Denier's posts has really dropped off lately, has'nt it? It seems that defying logic and common sense can get tiring to them and so, unwilling to be honest enough to say " Hey, I do not know how he does it, but he might just have the abilities to perform these events without help". That at least would be HONEST; as it is the continued insistence that the prop's MUST be there despite the massive evidence to the contrary and the lack of any definable indications of any such prop's resounds a clarion call to those with open minds to ignore and disdain the howlings of the Denier's as they insist on maintaining their limited views of reality.

The Denier's logic is so unreal: " Criss must be using a harness because he is not naked; the fact that there are NO supports, platforms, wires or helicopters evident or possible means NOTHING. They must be there because I refuse to believe that a man can levitate without them. And my refusal to believe settles the argument". THAT is as twisted as logic can get and as blind to the truth as possible. They have NO shame about throwing out illogical and spurious nonsense; it is all they have left!! they HAVE to hold on to that denial or face a new reality, with possibilities that frighten and challengte them in ways that they cannot handle.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
" He must have wires attached to some sort of thing..". See, P.R., how it comes and goes? We get a few Denier's and after a sound intellectual and logical thrashing they go away, at least temporarily, and are replaced by a few new Denier's who hang in there with the same old nonsense.

They simply cannot grasp that they are unable to demonstrate or indicate ANY of the invisible helicopters or platforms that they claim must be there. The LACK of evidence to them is just a non-issue!! Amazing. They cannot grasp what they are seeing and refuse to believe anything that challenges their belief systems, and so deny without shame.

True.

They also use the argument that since some of his feats are illusions then that must mean that all of them are, while ignoring all the testimony and video evidence that points to Criss Angel being able to float or levitate high in the air.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
The odds alone dictate the truth: It is mathematically more likely that Criss can perform his high events without props than it is to believe that he can do them WITH props that cannot be seen or photographed and that all of the witnesses and employees are silent and loyal forever.

Good point.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
The Denier's logic is so unreal: " Criss must be using a harness because he is not naked...

One of the more recent arguments.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
...the fact that there are NO supports, platforms, wires or helicopters evident or possible means NOTHING. They must be there because I refuse to believe that a man can levitate without them. And my refusal to believe settles the argument". THAT is as twisted as logic can get and as blind to the truth as possible. They have NO shame about throwing out illogical and spurious nonsense; it is all they have left!! they HAVE to hold on to that denial or face a new reality, with possibilities that frighten and challenge them in ways that they cannot handle.

Good post

Hey EW86...maybe we need to chime in the Qigong thread I mentioned earlier today.