It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

criss angel discussion...

page: 45
13
<< 42  43  44    46  47  48 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 09:19 AM
link   
NONSENSE!! Stage Magicians are like anyone else, they want fame and fortune and like most competitive professions, the cream rises to the top.

To assume that all illusionists and magicians will support each other is just hogwash; no doubt they would give their leaft arms to be able to replicate Criss. WHO are the BIGGEST illusionists and magicians? CRISS ANGEL and David Blaine in this nation, thats who!! Most people have heard of Copperfield but look at the YouTube hits for Criss and Blaine and Cyril ; compare that with ANY other performers..Criss and David and Cyril win hands down, every time.

If Randi or Copperfield or anyone else COULD perform the high levitations and such, they WOULD. Why not? Then they TOO would get big hotel contracts and world wide fame, like Criss. the FACT is that every stage performer or illusionist or adept wants to be at the top of the heap, of course. It is beyond silly to believe that the guys that do magic and other feats are all somehow like a big BoyScout troop sharing the limelight and singing Kumbaya together after their competitors finish for the night.

No, there is GREAT pressure on EVERY performer to upstage the other guy with ever more spectacular events. What you are suggecting is a conspiracy amonst all performers to limit the events by common agreement so that no one can get too far ahead; that is ludicrous, silly, totally unsupported by even guesswork.

Sure, it is easy to say that you really COULD have beat up that big kid from down the block; you just did'nt feel like fighting that day, right? Sad how silly it gets. To believe that Randi and Copperfield and the rest can duplicate Criss feats but JUST DO NOT WANT TO RUIN THE EVENTS FOR THE FUTURE is laughable , just incredible.

THAT shows what I have been saying all along: the denier's will stop at NOTHING in their efforts to prop up their disbelief; no theory is too insane, no probability too remote..they will insist until they drop that there MUST be some props because their minds simply CANNOT comprehend the reality they face, thus the automatic rejection of the possibilities that are MOST likely in favor of the LEAST likely scenarios.

It takes a leap of faith to believe the naysayers, and only an open mind and critical thinking and observing abilities to see the truth. I feel for the deniers, I really do; imagine how panicked and frozen with fear and shock they wioll be when such events are commonplace and undeniable any longer. THAT is when the paradgim shift will take place in their lives and enlighten their limited views of reality.

For now, we have the ONLY proof, the ONLY evidence, and it ALL points to one conclusion: Criss Angel and others are able to use abilities beyond the mundane to perform some of their events, and NO likley or rational explanations have been forthcoming so far that would refute that belief.

The deniers present NOTHING but guesses, and silly ones at that; ALL of the empitical evidence says that we are seeing what is there, and that is enough for now. They will come around after they have exhausted all of the silly excuses and have nothing left but the facts; sadly some will still deny, but many will take the blinders off and learn the new ways. It could not be soon enough.




posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 09:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by Arawn
THEY NEED THE WOW FACTOR! And quite frankly another magician copying another's trick would not get praise from the public. People would think "WTF he's just doing something Blaine did a few months ago! Do something new!"
......
Why would a magician copy another's trick when he can thing up a new one of his own, that no body has seen before, and WOW the general public?!



So Criss Angel "owns" levitation now? No other magician can ever levitate now because they'd be "copying" CA?

You are again dismissing the competitive nature of people. Other magicians would not want to be seen as second-rate to CA (which they are). They would want to do something at LEAST as spectacular, if not even more so. "Criss Angel levitated right over a tree on a golf course and floated down from the top of the Luxor hotel atrium? Fine, then I'll just have to levitate up to the top of the CN tower and float down from the top of Mount Everest!"

Also, don't you think people will start Daring other magicians? "Hey, levitate for us like Criss Angel does!!! You're a good illusionist, you can do it too, can't you......?"

If it's all just props and film editing and paid off witnesses as the Illusion camp suggests, then other magicians should be able to do it...............



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 10:35 AM
link   
Lets look at the facts shall we.

1) Criss Angel is a Preformer
2) Criss Angel Preforms many impressive, original feats
3) Criss Angel has stated that some of the things he does are illusions, some are not. He leaves it up to the audience to decide.
4) Criss Angel has admitted he uses creative editing, computer graphics, paid audiences and TV tricks.*
5) Criss Angel has never once stated that he has a Gift, is in contact with a group entity, or has power from one-ness with god.
6) Some of his illusions can be explained by practical means.
7) There is no solid proof to suggest that Criss Angel is using a Gift. The only evidence available is empiricle.
8) There is no solid proof to suggest that Criss Angel is using props. The is only evidence available is empiricle.**
9) Both sides of the argument are not willing to admitt neither of them have anything more than beliefs.
10) This line of conversation is going no where.

IMO, numbers 4 and 9 are the most important facts there are.
Anyone else like to add something?

[edit on 2-8-2007 by InSpiteOf]
Edited to add pints from MrdDstrbr and kinglizard.
* Awaiting confirmation
** Dependant on point 4


[edit on 2-8-2007 by InSpiteOf]



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 10:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
4) Criss Angel has never once stated that he has a Gift or is in contact with a group entity.
.....
Anyone else like to add something?
[edit on 2-8-2007 by InSpiteOf]


I just wanted to mention that I don't agree with Paul Richard on this aspect. I don't know about Discarnate Group Entities with Yellow Auras from the Fourth Astral Plane and all that....

My belief is that the ability to do these things stems from our One-ness with God and the Universe around us. We don't need discarnate spirits to give us these abilities; we all have a direct line to God and we can all learn to develop these abilities through prayer/meditation etc. All of us get to be "Neo" if we so desire.....



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 10:50 AM
link   
There is far more evidence that should lead one to believe he's just an illusionist preforming illusions. We have solid evidence that he uses creative editing, computer graphics, paid audiences and TV tricks, this evidence comes directly from his own video.

The cases that show this evidence brings doubt to ALL of his illusions. Though there are many cop out excuses by those with great faith in Chris Angel.

I'm sure there are some illusions that he preforms that look unexplainable but that is the goal of an illusionist. Knowing that he is a paid performer that has used TV/editing tricks in the past brings SERIOUS doubt to his entire body of work.



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 10:58 AM
link   

Originally posted by kinglizard
There is far more evidence that should lead one to believe he's just an illusionist preforming illusions. We have solid evidence that he uses creative editing, computer graphics, paid audiences and TV tricks, this evidence comes directly from his own video.


Where is the evidence that audiences/witnesses are paid off?



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 10:59 AM
link   
His first championed video by those that want to believe...the building to building levitation.



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 11:13 AM
link   

Originally posted by kinglizard
His first championed video by those that want to believe...the building to building levitation.


Right, so............... where's the evidence that the eyewitnesses were paid off?


Also - where's the evidence that people like "1 True Criss Angel Fan" are paid to claim that CA levitated them?

[edit on 2-8-2007 by MrdDstrbr]



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 11:15 AM
link   
No evidence that money changed hands....just evidence that audiences were "in on" the illusion.



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 11:17 AM
link   

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Also - where's the evidence that people like "1 True Criss Angel Fan" are paid to claim that CA levitated them?

[edit on 2-8-2007 by MrdDstrbr]


Frankly, someone chimming in on these forums to tell us he was levitated by CA, with nothing to back up his/her claim, isnt really a case breaker. This place is filled with hoaxers, s/he could easily have been one.



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 11:25 AM
link   

Originally posted by kinglizard
No evidence that money changed hands....just evidence that audiences were "in on" the illusion.


Was it covered in the thread before I joined in? You intend for me to dig back through 40+ pages to find it?



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 11:40 AM
link   

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Was it covered in the thread before I joined in? You intend for me to dig back through 40+ pages to find it?



Ok, I'll go through the 40+ pages for you...

original video of the building to building levitation: (below)




Now here is a critical analysis of that video performance that proves Chris Angel uses creative editing, computer touch ups and other tricks. (below)





In the first video you see audience members actually filming the event....but the critical analysis of the performance proves that the performance was the result of video editing, computer touch ups...etc. There is only one reasonable conclusion...the audience members were "in on" the illusion.



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 11:45 AM
link   
Wow king, i acutally missed this. Must have been asleep. I cant view it right now because im at work, but the minute i see this at home ill ammend the "fact list"

And here i was thinking this was going no where.



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 11:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
4) Criss Angel has never once stated that he has a Gift or is in contact with a group entity.

He will never do so because it does not behoove him financially and because he wishes to avoid the scrutiny of having a Gift and making money off of it - instead of doing something noble with his power as many would say that he should.

Furthermore, Criss Angel has said that a lot of what he does is REAL, that he doesn't use camera or editing tricks, and that he leaves it up to the viewing audience to decide for themselves.


Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
I just wanted to mention that I don't agree with Paul Richard on this aspect. I don't know about Discarnate Group Entities with Yellow Auras from the Fourth Astral Plane and all that....

My belief is that the ability to do these things stems from our One-ness with God and the Universe around us. We don't need discarnate spirits to give us these abilities; we all have a direct line to God and we can all learn to develop these abilities through prayer/meditation etc. All of us get to be "Neo" if we so desire.....

The well-known term Gifts of the Spirit was coined centuries ago precisely because psychic, healing, and telekinetic gifts stem from the Other Side


Is there a way to self-generate one's own telekinetic ability?

Sure.

But not through traditional means.

One cannot get there through channeling or through advanced meditative practice. There are many advanced meditators around the world. If telekinesis was accomplished in that way, then many would levitate about just as Criss Angel does.


John Chang was chided by his former master who was in the Spirit, for showing off his powers and for accidentally drawing blood from someone in the process. If John Chang's abilities truly stemmed from his meditative practice, then why was he chided? This is in indication that his Gift of Healing and Telekinesis comes from a discarnate community or Group Entity.

As far as obtaining confirmation as to the Group Entity-yellow Dominant Aura Color connection, that can be achieved simply from spiritual correspondence with discarnate Saints and also by exploring the discarnate energies around people like Criss Angel and David Blaine. A good place to start is in churches and synagogues. Look at the discarnate energies around the ministers, priests, rabbis and nuns as they talk, teach, preach, sing, etc. You will find that the predominant discarnate energies are yellow.

But don't take my word for it.

Find out for yourselves.





posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 11:57 AM
link   

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
He will never do so because it does not behoove him financially and because he wishes to avoid the scrutiny of having a Gift and making money off of it - instead of doing something noble with his power as many would say that he should.

Thats pure speculation. What I posted still stands as a fact, regardless of the reasons you postulate.


Furthermore, Criss Angel has said that a lot of what he does is REAL, that he doesn't use camera or editing tricks, and that he leaves it up to the viewing audience to decide for themselves.


Think I addressed this



[edit on 2-8-2007 by InSpiteOf]



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 12:09 PM
link   
sort of off topic...

I was reading the latest posts on this subject and something came to mind.

We've done a really good job debating this. Both sides have presented thier beliefs and arguements in a civil manner and tried to answer the other side respectfully.


This is very cool. Far too many times here on ATS, it resorts to name calling and bickering etc.

What a nice debate on a cool subject.

Goof Form guys.. good form.


Now on subject...

it's a trick and illusion...



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 12:12 PM
link   
Agreed, I called for Cheers from both sides earlier.

I may not have been a long standing participant, but from what I've read each side has pretty much stuck to their guns, and overall, kept it civil and enjoyable.



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 12:20 PM
link   
There is NO evidence that any of Criss fans and witnesses are ' in on it ' to the extent that ANY of the high levitations and other seemingly impossible feats are affected. That is the trrick of the deniers, they talk about certain events that have NOTHING to do with the type of events that we are discussing.

If Criss performs some events with audience participation or whatever, that is one thing. The high levitations and such are NOT the subject of ANY controversy at all; NO evidence has been shown that would lead an intelligent person to assume that Criss uses ANY props in those PARTICULAR events.

The silly ' any event that uses some aspects disqualifies Criss from ALL apsects ' is just nonsensical. The Luxor event and the golf course event, among MANY others , do not have any element of witness involveement, other than the many independent video's taken and voluntarily sent in to Criss to share.

The naysayers are also forgetting that Criss does virtually inexplicable events all the time, as proven by the many video's of teleportation, material decomposition / recomposition , etc. Did anyone see the video taken in the cigar shop at the Luxor with the Wonder Years star, Jason Hervey? Hervey is a cigar lover and with a crowd watching, and Criss touching nothing but a deck of cards as he asks another guy to pick a card.

The guy selects the 7 of clubs and it stays in the deck. Criss had the manager of the cigar store get a random box of cigars from a locked display case and has Jason select a random cigar of his choice. He unwraps it and the cigar guy cuts the tip off, and Jason lights it. Criss NEVER touches the cigar. Criss has the other guy look thru the deck at each card one by one and the 7 of clubs is gone!

Naturally, Criss takes the cigar from Jason in full view of the crowd and cuts it open to reveal the folded up 7 of clubs inside the lit cigar that Jason was smoking!! He was of course flabbergasted as it would have been IMPOSSIBLE for the event to have been staged without massive participation and life long silence from the actors. Nonsense!!

Criss was able to MAKE that cigar get into that handrolled cigar and it had to become folded in a certian way in order to do so. No human hand folded that card, a fact that some deniers will howl over; their laughs will sound hollow in the nesr future when such realities are better comprehended by the common man.

Also, in single shots with the tape rolling and no breaks, Criss, with open and bare hands, obvioulsy nothing in them, places his hands in front of a mirror, and has strangers standing well away from the mirror simply take an object, like a cigar or money, and pass the items down into Criss' hands which are almost flat on the mirror. the objects that are passed down into the image on the mirror are duplicated into Criss hands, including a LIT cigar exactly like the one used, and the EXACT amount of money that a young woman used.

Each of these events qualifies in and of themselves as genuine examples, just like the Luxor and golf course events do, but attract less notice due to the fact that most common observers will go on auto-think as soon as they see it and say " Hey, realluy neat..wonder how he does that". The trouble is that most people will never stop and really wonder how it could be done and explore ALL possibilities and not exclude those that seem ' far out ', which is the habit of most people; it keeps them comfy and on an even keel as far as their understanding of reality goes.

Think about it : It is no small matter that events that challenge the very foundation on which many people comprehend their existence and realities are so shocking to them; it is a major thing for many people to admit, even to themselves , that other human beings have powers or abilities that they themselves could hardly grasp as being possible for them to do. If they accept that Criss can levitate with such ease and for such distances, then it makes some personalities feel threatened and an auto atic defense mechanism steps in to prop and fluff the ego:

" Hrrmmph.If anyone could do such stuff, why I could !! Criss is no better than me, and if he can levitate , I can by golly!! Since I cannot, that means that HE cannot either!! Simple Logic!! "

See why it is so hard to break that barrier? It threatens so many aspects of the psyche of the observers that for some it means an instant and stubborn denial; the MEANING of acceptance would be too deep and personal and challenging for most. Most people are able to stay sane and on an even keel in a very crazed and strange world by assuming certain parameters in life.

these parameters act to stabilize the mind and emotions and allow humans to go about their lives without shock and revelation distracting them from the ri assigned and desired duties in life. When you see the looks on the faces of the bystanders in Criss and David's events, with shock and awe and incredulity and even horror..you are seeing the result of the brain receiving input that collides with the parameters and thus sets off reactions that are apparent and measurable.

Some people run away, actually in physical fear, adrenalin racing..others clasp their hands over their mouths to hide their jaws dropping..some others just express profound amazment and wonder. But all of the witnesses to these events are a representative sample of the effects of diclosure, or enlightenment on a mind bound by the common and mundane.

When Criss has a coin travel down his arm, under the skin, clearly visible, and cuts it out of his flesh to reveal it, the witnesses are revolted in some cases, shocked for sure, but they still look and they still see: there is NO WAY that these events are staged and there is NO way that what we are seeing is a result of video trickery and editing, no way. those people are real, and with effort and money could be tracked down, all of them, and verified.

I have NO doubt that the ONLY explanation for SOME of CRiss events, and you know which ones I mean, is the esoteric one and not the mundane one. There can be NO logical explanation other than the apparent one due to the total lack of substantive evidence to the contrary!!

No one has presented a theory that has merit or any evidence whatsoever that would lend credence to the belief that Criss Angel uses props in some of his events, the more spectacular ones.

Onward!!



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 12:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by eyewitness86
The Luxor event and the golf course event, among MANY others , do not have any element of witness involveement, other than the many independent video's taken and voluntarily sent in to Criss to share.


right, the Luxor illusion could not have any witness involvement because the closest ANY witness could be was at least 1/2 mile away. Here is the view of EVERY possible witness.



It could be anything way up there...it's just a tiny white dot. No "witness" could see anything more. Chris Angel's official video shows the same because all independent videos were taken from at least 1/2 mile away, that's as close as anyone can get to the top of the pyramid. Even people in other casinos high in the air are all 1/2 mile away. They all look exactly like the image above....heck I took that screen shot from Chris Angels official video.



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 12:41 PM
link   
What I'd like to know is why, in every post you make (practically), you have the need to say us naysayers need a paradigm shift, or realizing the truth will shock our psyche or the foundation on which we view reality, etc. It serves no purpose accept to elevate yourself and denegrate us.

Considering currently, there are on average, 4 of us naysayers, and I have told you more than 2 times that I believe that people out there have such abilities and stronger ones. I know kinglizard has a deep spiritual side, one that may counter your own of that, I am not sure. But i doubt he completely dismisses the idea (speculation.) Thats already half of us, butI cant speak for ignorant_ape or elevatedone.

Edit to add: Who are you to say what level of spiritual awareness any of us are at? Who are you to say that your belief is the correct one?

Please, I am asking you from one ATSer to another. Cut it out. Considering you mention it in almost every post, it doesnt serve any purpose but to piss us off.

[edit on 2-8-2007 by InSpiteOf]



new topics

top topics



 
13
<< 42  43  44    46  47  48 >>

log in

join