criss angel discussion...

Ok...I guess it is time to jump in the discussion...again.

Originally posted by pavil
Did CA learn his TK just by himself? Did he have a mentor? Who? Had CA shown evidence of TK throughout his life?

"No" to the first question. Gifts of Telekinesis are not learned, they are given.
Most likely "no" to the second question, at least in the physical sense.
"Yes" to the last question. When just a boy, he levitated his mother with a broomstick. There is a picture of him doing that which may be available online somewhere.

Most who have a Gift of TK show signs of it early in life, i.e., during childhood or when a teenager. An example of this is Sai Baba. In elementary school he was known to manifest candy for his classmates. At that time and well into his adult years, his Gift of TK was actually more powerful than that of Criss Angel. But Sai Baba and the discarnate community who provided his Gift of TK, misused that energy. Consequently, his Gifts have lessened over the years and he is no longer as powerful as he once was.

What goes around comes around.

Originally posted by pavil
Why didn't he do this major levitation in Season One? I assume the levitations were done in Season two from my recollection. Wouldn't you do your best effort that first season to cement your series and future $$$$?

Perhaps he had other feats in mind at that time, if he waited as you suggested.

I think he tested audiences to see what they liked the most and so he tried many different feats, e.g., walking on water, changing water to beer, teleporting away on a motorcycle, in a car, etc.

One notices that on a recent episode he asked the audience outside a hotel what they wanted and levitation was the feat of choice with the crowd. So he did that with a female spectator over a fountain.



[edit on 9-8-2007 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by kinglizard
Had I known that the two supporters of Chris Angel in this thread wouldn't even listen to Chris Angel himself telling the world in an interview (Below) that he has NO "superpowers" (and at one point starts laughing at those that believe)....I would Never have posted to this thread.

I mean if they won't even listen to Chris, there is no way they will listen to me or anyone else for that matter.

Are you also taking into consideration what he said in his interview on Fox News with John Gibson? He said that a lot of what he does is REAL and a lot of what he does is illusion.

Criss Angel says a lot of things.

One of which is that he leaves it up to the audience to decide for themselves.

Which is exactly what this discussion is all about.

BTW...there are more than two supporters of Criss Angel in this thread.

That is, if you define "supporters" as those who believe that he is an illusionist who also has a Gift of Telekinesis which he occasionally uses in his more impressive feats, e.g., his high levitations.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

"No" to the first question. Gifts of Telekinesis are not learned, their given.

Still they must be practiced just like any other skill or muscle no? How does your power get stronger without constant use?

"Yes" to the last question. When just a boy, he levitated his mother with a broomstick. There is a picture of him doing that which may be available online somewhere.

You do realize that that is a fairly common magican trick. Hey, this guy must have the "gift" too. I do like Criss's music better though:

Baba and the discarnate community who provided his Gift of TK, misused that energy.

And please tell me how CA is properly using his "gift"? Making Millions in Sin City? Cmon, now.



[edit on 9-8-2007 by pavil]

[edit on 9-8-2007 by pavil]

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
"No" to the first question. Gifts of Telekinesis are not learned, they are given.

Originally posted by pavil
Still they must be practiced just like any other skill or muscle no? How does your power get stronger without constant use?

Very good question

But I don't think you will like the answer.

Practicing doesn't make it stronger because the ability does not stem from the body or mind of those who have it.

Which means that Criss Angel's levitation ability will not improve with age.

Bet you didn't expect me to come out with that particular point

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
"Yes" to the last question. When just a boy, he levitated his mother with a broomstick. There is a picture of him doing that which may be available online somewhere.

Originally posted by pavil
You do realize that that is a fairly common magican trick.

Sure, when it is done through illusion, like on a magician's stage.

Now try it as a boy with only a broom, mom, and a sibling to take the picture.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Baba and the discarnate community who provided his Gift of TK, misused that energy.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
And please tell me how CA is properly using his "gift"? Making Millions in Sin City? Cmon, now.

Where did I state anywhere in this entire thread that I thought Criss Angel was using his Gift of Telekinesis for noble reasons?

You are right in your conclusion that he is not.

OMG...we agree on something.

Let's not make this a trend.

It wouldn't go well if people in both camps actually started agreeing with one another.

Quick...attack me on some related issue

Maybe most will not notice what just transpired.



[edit on 9-8-2007 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Which means that Criss Angel's levitation ability will not improve with age.

I don't quite follow, how did Criss' power of TK build up to the level where he could do his high levitations? Please elaborate. Has it always been the same? If not, how did it get stronger? Pleae make sure I do not claim he has the Power of TK, I am curious how you know so much of it.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Which means that Criss Angel's levitation ability will not improve with age.

Originally posted by pavil
I don't quite follow, how did Criss' power of TK build up to the level where he could do his high levitations? Please elaborate. Has it always been the same? If not, how did it get stronger? Pleae make sure I do not claim he has the Power of TK, I am curious how you know so much of it.

The energy behind any Gift of Telekinesis and/or Manifestation stems from thousands, rarely millions of people on the Other Side. In referring to the traditional seven astral plane paradigm, they typically reside on the fourth plane; where souls have a Dominant Aura Color of yellow and which represent BASIC, not advanced spirituality. Discarnate Saints in the sixth and seven planes espouse that when The Original Creator completely and irreversibly divided the Godhead up after orchestrating The Big Bang with The Light ("The Great Fall"), that all souls started out as "angels" with a DAC of yellow.

I remember viewing a documentary that showed an inspired Taoist painting about the beginning of creation and the yellow energies depicted in the illustration. There are many indications of this.

In having studied and dealt with communities in the Spirit for decades (centuries actually), I am well versed in the up-and-coming discipline and understanding (down here) surrounding discarnate sociology. I know how they operate. Most of them have a short term of glory. From unethical applications of their energy, they then weaken away from The Light - into the Lower Realms - and can no longer combine into a Group Entity. This happens every single day.

What replenishes the power of the false god icons and Gifts of the Spirit for some, is the daily influx of recently transitioned souls who join discarnate communities, many of which are in a constant state of instability and internal strife.

Criss Angel's ability to levitate and teleport has nothing to do with his meditations, radiance, and visualizations. He says that he has no powers and in this pronouncement he is absolutely right - if one understands the nature behind Gifts of the Spirit.

Discarnate communities or Group Entities fluctuate in membership. There are many factors which impact this. One could be power struggles within the community. Another could be the result of retrogression from some of them having abused one or more innocents and then consequently lessening in energy to having a DAC of orange or red - the third and second planes in The Light respectively. Those with a DAC of red in the Lower Realms can only combine energies with others on that plane for minutes at a time. Those on the lowest discarnate dimensions, i.e., those with a DAC of brown, cannot combine into a Group Entity at all

There are also limitations on the degree of energy that any Group Entity can generate in The Light. You will never see a GE that has billions of members. They tried. It cannot be done because they are not spiritually advanced enough to be able to handle that much energy. The group becomes unstable and their unity in The Light falls apart.

But on rare occasions you will find a Group Entity that has millions of members, as was the discarnate community that powered and empowered the prophet Issa aka Jesus of Nazareth.

Power. It is all about power.

Most people want power for its own sake and most want it the easy way.

The easy way to get it when on the Other Side, is to be basically spiritual - with a DAC of yellow - and combine your energy with many others on the same level.

Criss Angel's ability to levitate is not something that he can improve upon. It really has nothing to do with his own abilities and everything to do with the level of energy given to him by the discarnate community he came from in the Mid Realms of Spirit.

Many people who are in bodies knew about all this before birth - when they were in the discarnate dimensions - but don't remember it fully now. Which is why it is so important and a service to The Light to rekindle that progressive spiritual education from the Higher Realms.

Paul_Richards, how do you explain the analysis of the building to building levitation that pavil posted? That video was certainly convincing of the fact that video editing has been used to splice multipul takes into one scene.

If in fact, Criss Angel is getting his abilities from a GE, then why does he need to use editing to produce his effect?

Edit to add: What your typed above is interesting, do you have any written material that goes further into such things?

[edit on 10-8-2007 by InSpiteOf]

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Paul_Richards, how do you explain the analysis of the building to building levitation that pavil posted? That video was certainly convincing of the fact that video editing has been used to splice multipul takes into one scene.

The video of the video looks to be in itself a product of careful editing, when compared to the first video when viewed independently of the version that is offered.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
If in fact, Criss Angel is getting his abilities from a GE, then why does he need to use editing to produce his effect?

He doesn't use any editing or camera tricks, which he says, along with many eyewitnesses like 1 Tru Criss Angel Fan in here.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Edit to add: What your typed above is interesting, do you have any written material that goes further into such things?

Start with the Heart Chakra Radiance link in my signature. Then go to the home page linked at the bottom. HCR is the most important thing we teach.

Now I have to bee-bop over to the thread on Qigong to expose another trickster who claims to only be a mentalist with no Gifts or psychic ability. However, like Criss Angel, he actually does have a Gift of Telekinesis.

These guys make me sick.

Well, actually, their GE's have done exactly that to me

Among other things.



[edit on 10-8-2007 by Paul_Richard]

I can certainly understand (and expected) such an answer. The clonning tool remark needs further investigation. But parts of the video such as, the position of his knee's and feet at the landing; the guy who, from one angle is walking thru the scene, and in another angle is not scene at all; and the various abnormal shadow positions; certainly do (IMO) make a credible case for video splicing and editing.

I unfortunately lack the video knowhow to go about this, but if one of us were to look at the video of the building to building levitation and were to highlight the points (with captures) listed in the video, would that provide sufficient evidence to video trickery for you?

Edit to fix the times, imbedded video counted down rather than up. but now lost my Size increase.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
The video of the video looks to be in itself a product of careful editing, when compared to the first video when viewed independently of the version that is offered.

.

Ok lets break it down further. So we can eliminate the "careful editing " from outside sources your claim we will use CA's video of the event:



Pay careful attention to the part from 2:29 to 2:23. You will see a man walking backwards below CA on the ground, looking up while CA levitates. Please look now and pause video after that.

Ok now watch the video till about 0:34 to 0:30, you will see a slightly different angle of that previous shot, pay attention to the ground below CA, you will not see that same man walking backwards.

Simple question again, Explain why the man is there in the one shot yet not the second shot if this is video of a single "levitation" as is claimed?



[edit on 10-8-2007 by pavil]

Question pavil...

Is the video you post the one that claims the levitation is edited or is it the independent version found elsewhere?

I have noticed that when you view the independent or original version, it is different.

But hey...that is only my opinion.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Question pavil...

Is the video you post the one that claims the levitation is edited or is it the independent version found elsewhere?

I have noticed that when you view the independent or original version, it is different.

But hey...that is only my opinion.

I'm not following you. I am confident that the above video and this one show exactly what was shown on A&E. They both show the man in one video shot and not in the second.
I have not found any that dispute that. You are welcome to look and post your findings to the contrary.

The one you claim with all the edits was posted on March 24, 2007. The other last two videos I have posted are from May and October of 2006. They can not be using the March 2007 video as source.

Google Video Link

I am pretty sure that you can't explain it in a way that supports your version of the event as being of one "levitation".

[edit on 10-8-2007 by pavil]

The film of the last sequence was SPED UP dramatically for times sake, that is obvious. The angle was diferent also, much closer than the previous shot. It was meant to show the overall progress of the event and was an appendage film to the others.

If in shortening the film for times sake they eliminated the distracting guy walking backwards, that would be common sense and good editing as distractions from the main object of the film is what editors try and get rid of so the eye is on the performer. Since the guy walking backwards filming was probably an staff member anyway, there was no need to keep him in the final shortened version we see. They probably eliminated the frames he was in as part of the shortening process and for good reasons, as staed above. Perfectly normal; they could not anticipate that some Denier's on ATS would try and use the missing guy as an excuse for denying all of the plainly telling and relevant proofs shown!!

Let me ask this: you see an open sky with NOTHING above them, no cranes, helicopters , supports, props, wires, etc. Right? you see eyewitnesses at arms leength to Criss, right? You see Criss take off and levitate from multiple cameras, some held by the bystanders , and you haer the excliams of amazement and suprise as the crowd of witnesses sees Criss defy gravity right in front of them, right?

Multiple eyewitnesses, various cameras from several angles, a declaration from Criss that ' what you see is what you get ', meaning that if you do not see some proof or even some hint of evidence that there could be a mundane explanation for the event, then what you are seeing is REAL.

And guess what? Even if the guy walking backwards, who looked to be shooting with a video camera from below, WAS edited out of that clip, it means NOTHING!! Why? Here is why: The clip you refer to that does NOT show the guy walking backwards, the clip that is ' sped up ' or has been shortened in whatever way to get it down in seconds to include in the video, is totally normal..is NOT indicative of the event itslef in any way whatsoever!! It has NOTHING to do with the rest of the videos, which ALL show Criss levitating with NO props at all!!

To take an insignificant clip that has been speeded up either by removing frames or whatever and try to infer that this is sonehow telling evidence that trickery was used is absolutely illogical in the extreme. You cannot extrapolate such assumptions from that one clip, no way. AS long as the event was recorded as it happened and accurately reflected the scene as witnessed by the bystanders it is a valid video.

Are you claiming that because the sped up clip was used to show the overall flight rapidly rather than slowly that this somehow means that all the video was altered to reflect somehting that was not there, or to hide something that was? And if so WHY have you made that deduction? Why would that follow logically? Are you caliming that ALL of the stunned and amazed witnesses were paid off? If not then they would have seen and commented on any obvious props that could support Criss during the event, like a crane or wires or anything erlse that could possibly have affected the outcome.

No, with the witnesses, the video's, the statements.all of the combined evidence and the TOTAL LACK of any evidence of props, fakery, etc. the only logical assumption is that Criss performed the levitation as we see it, witnesses universally overwhelmed, NOTHING in the clear sky above him, no supports or such..Plainly open sky and close up witnesses make the case.

The supposition that because a minor clip that was speeded up to show the event from another angle but to save time was edited to make it faster; in the editing to make that one clip faster, the man was taken out due to the removal of frames to aid in the speeding up process or to keep the attention from being distracted by the event by some guy walking backwards. That would pull the eye away from Criss above and was not a necessary part of the mission for that particular clip, thats all. to read some devious motive into it is not logical when one sees editing as a means to an end: The clock!! Editing is basically trying to make every second count in a smooth and logical manner.

No matter WHY the man is not seen walking backward in the speeded up clip, it does NOT imply anything of value to the question of authenticity either of the other videos or the witnesses reactions. It is a non issue but a good catch as far as details go. If only it merant something more than a normal means of making as much film fir into a time frame as possible. That is what editing is; it is far and away totally different than using deceptive alterations to reflect a different scene than what actually occurred; to date not ONE iota of proof for that has ever been shown or alluded to.

So why not look at the video of Criss swallwoing the coin and having it travel under his skin and get cut out? Hmm? Too hard to refute by claiming trickery? Lets get the really "impossible to refute without looking like a total moron " video's up on here and see if they can come up with some rational excuse for those. So far we have used events that leave just enough wiggle room for their irrational denials, but with a few events there is NO WAY to escape the truth, unless they resort to the sad old 'optical illusions ' or ' film tricks ' excuses. It is time to nail it down and force Denial to show it cards; the bluff is being called.

I am going to review some video's and select a few that cannot be intelligently denied. I welcome others to do so also; but for now please just the ones that the Deniers have to sound foolish making outrageous cliams to try and debunk.

Criss can and does levitate without the aid of props of any type and so far NO evidence or even decent alternative to what we see has been proposed that convinces. Next step: The Undeniables!!

I agree with eyewitness86's appraisal.

The film was not manipulated to trick the audience, it was simply edited in order to focus on the main subject, Criss Angel.

The walking man was walking underneath Criss as he levitated (as you said, maybe filming him from below) How exactly would they edit out frames with him in them, and not edit out Criss' actualy levitation?

If subject A (Criss) and subject B (walking man) are in the same frames together (A is above and B is below) how can you remove B without removing A? There are two easy answers to that, digitally remove him. If he was digitally removed, that would be called "evidence of video trickery." The second answer: The frames with subject A and B together, were shot at one time, and the frames with subject A but not B, were shot at another time. The two scences were then spliced together.

The walking man was only one of a few examples of abnormailties in that levitation. It was also the only one you seem willing to address. How about you address his leg positions as he lands? Or the odd cloud rotations?

It seems to me, everytime one of us deniers comes up with a plausible answer to a levitation, eyewitness changes the illusion we should be analyzing. He acuses us of wiggling, while quickly moving away from something we have explained.

Sorry, he was NOT underneath Criss..I have looked at it thoroughly and the man is NOT really under him; he is well away from Criss, by as much as several feet or more, Criss is moving from left to right and the man moves from the buildings edge to into the shadows as you see with close observation. Although the man is pointing his camera up, notice he has it at an angle also, because Criss was NOT directly over his head. Regardless, it means nothing. The frames of the man were removed for good reason.

So your premise is mistaken, and your assumption thatit matters is wrong, plainly. I will answer your question tho: It is SUPER easy for a film editor to simply remove frames, one at a time if need be, and to eliminate the few frames that contain the ' walking man ' would in no way render the view of Criss less visible. Look closely at the video: Criss moves not in a smooth fashion at all, there are tiny jerks and stalls as he moves because the clip has been shortened for time!! Obviously.

When you speed up film you minimize the shorter episodes while maximizing the loger ones; also by taking frames out to shorten the film to a desired length, it would ONLY MAKE SENSE to take out for sure those that also represent a distraction,ie: the ' walking man '. WHY NOT take out those frames? It makes sense totally. He is not relevant to the main shots of the event, and distracts the eye from Criss in the speeded up version if not removed. That is a totally logical and likley reason for the ' walking man ' being gone in that clip.

So your question has been answered fully and with the most likley and logical possibility : Simple professional film editing to enhance the quality of the shot and eliminate distractions that do not affect the reality of the event at all. Let me ask you this just for fun:

If the ' walking man ' WAS shown in both examples, shortened as well as ful length, WHAT would be your OTHER reason for denying the event was as seen and alleged? Was that the only critique or do you have something in your bag of possibilities that actually gives us pause about our belief in a non prosaic answer to the issue? I really do not want to be fooled by anybody and if Criss Angel is so much smarter than me and can perform events that can render me unable to come up with a rational and likley way it could have been done, I want to know how so I can eliminate any chance of assuming wrongly about him.

So far I have seen no substantial evidence and have heard no convincing alternatives that fit anywhere near the evidence we have available, and so I will continue to insist that the Denier's have the burden of proof here. One cannot take miniscule side issues and lack of evidence and weave that into an affirmative case for making a claim suspect; it is not logical to do so. Blue sky above, no props, excited and sincere witnesses, NO evidence of anything except what we see. that is far more telling than random and astronomically unlikley conspiracies among witnesses and employees, hidden or unobservable props, pointing to normal editing techniques as somehow suspect..distractions one and all.

So please tell me what was your Number Two evidence of fakery in this event? I assume that the ' walking man ' editing fiasco was not your big gun?? Hopefully we will hear some really interesting and likley reasons to disregard the films and witnesses and all other evidence in favor of the Denier's claims. This should be interesting !!

In summary: Editing out distractions from clips that are being shortened anyway for time is only logical and to be expected from a professional editor. Why leave in a distraction when choosing which frames to remove in the shortrening process? See? It makes no sense to leave those in there while removing frames that do NOT contain distracting and irrelevant images !!

And THAT my friend is the most succinct and likley answer to your question in my humble opinion. Nothing suspicious or telling about normal editing techniques; the overall evidential reality is overwhelmingly on the side of the Believer's; the Deniers must climb a very steep grade just to get back to level ground. When they come climbing out of the hole , we will see if they have what it takes to claim the peak. Until then, we await the replies to the above requested info. Thanks.

What a Cop out explanation.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
The film of the last sequence was SPED UP dramatically for times sake, that is obvious. The angle was diferent also, much closer than the previous shot. It was meant to show the overall progress of the event and was an appendage film to the others.

It is a 4 second clip as opposed to a 6 second clip. Yes it is sped up or time lapsed. Where is the Man though? It looks almost like a security tape. He would be present in all Frames that were shot.

If in shortening the film for times sake they eliminated the distracting guy walking backwards, that would be common sense and good editing as distractions from the main object of the film is what editors try and get rid of so the eye is on the performer.

What? I thought CA didn't edit his videos in that manner? You mean he intentionally edits those things he wishes not to see, so you won't be distracted? Hmmmmm. So CA went through all that editing work to save at most 2 seconds? Implausible.

They probably eliminated the frames he was in as part of the shortening process and for good reasons, as staed above. Perfectly normal;

How? Was the man not Physically there in those frames? I would assume the man was present in every single frame of the video. Either he was edited out, unlikely for a 4 second clip or he just wasn't present in a second run of the "levitation"

Let me ask this: you see an open sky with NOTHING above them, no cranes, helicopters , supports, props, wires, etc. Right? you see eyewitnesses at arms leength to Criss, right? You see Criss take off and levitate from multiple cameras, some held by the bystanders , and you haer the excliams of amazement and suprise as the crowd of witnesses sees Criss defy gravity right in front of them, right?

Nice Change of topic. We never see the area directly above him 100-300 feet above. Take a look at all the shots, they show CA levitating cropped with CA at the top of the screen and lots of space below him. As for the "crowd" why did CA do it off the Strip? Woulda be more people to "amaze" there than the 20 to 40 people we see.

Multiple eyewitnesses, various cameras from several angles, a declaration from Criss that ' what you see is what you get ', meaning that if you do not see some proof or even some hint of evidence that there could be a mundane explanation for the event, then what you are seeing is REAL.

Knock, knock. Hello? Anybody in there?
What I see is a man in one video and not in the other. You have not explained how he is not there other than CA INTENTIONALLY editing out things he does not WISH YOU TO SEE!

And guess what? Even if the guy walking backwards, who looked to be shooting with a video camera from below, WAS edited out of that clip, it means NOTHING!! Why? Here is why: The clip you refer to that does NOT show the guy walking backwards, the clip that is ' sped up ' or has been shortened in whatever way to get it down in seconds to include in the video, is totally normal..is NOT indicative of the event itslef in any way whatsoever!! It has NOTHING to do with the rest of the videos, which ALL show Criss levitating with NO props at all!!

Major denial there. Even if you prove it to me, it means nothing? Thats some logic you got going on there. Even if you show me and Even if it is Edited it still means nothing.

Again we are talking about editing a 6 second clip down to a 4 second clip, thats 2 seconds for those of you keeping track. Other easier edits would have been found to shorten the entire video.

To take an insignificant clip that has been speeded up either by removing frames or whatever and try to infer that this is sonehow telling evidence that trickery was used is absolutely illogical in the extreme. You cannot extrapolate such assumptions from that one clip, no way.

Surely I am following a logical path based on the video evidence presented that claims to not have been edited in ANY WAY. It's CA's own video I have presented compelling evidence that either:
1. CA does edit his videos for dramatic effect. or
2. CA shot two levitations and combined them into one purported one.

Either way, it proves your contention wrong that he does not edit his videos.

Are you claiming that because the sped up clip was used to show the overall flight rapidly rather than slowly that this somehow means that all the video was altered to reflect somehting that was not there, or to hide something that was? And if so WHY have you made that deduction?

It means that other parts of his video editing are suspect. Most of his shots are really altered, they are just shot from an angle that doesn't permit viewing of the area 100-300 directly above CA. Most of the wire would be invisible to the naked or video eye, a few touch up here and there.

Why would that follow logically?

If Criss Angel intentionally edited out minor parts or shot multiple takes of an event, it stands to reason logically, that it would be possible, if not likely, that he would do that to other parts of the video.

Are you caliming that ALL of the stunned and amazed witnesses were paid off?

Get ready for it...........YES! All 20 - 40 of them.

The supposition that because a minor clip that was speeded up to show the event from another angle but to save time was edited to make it faster; in the editing to make that one clip faster, the man was taken out due to the removal of frames to aid in the speeding up process or to keep the attention from being distracted by the event by some guy walking backwards. That would pull the eye away from Criss above and was not a necessary part of the mission for that particular clip, thats all. to read some devious motive into it is not logical when one sees editing as a means to an end: The clock!! Editing is basically trying to make every second count in a smooth and logical manner.

The Edit saved 2 seconds and you still havent explained how the man is not present in the remaining frames. He was physically there correct?

So basically CA did the edits, which you previously have claimed he NEVER does, so as you won't be distracted in a way CA does not want you to be? He did it so you could focus on what he wants you to see, right? No sense in having distractions there that would take away from the "demonstration"? Hmmm. You are so close that you can't see I guess.

to date not ONE iota of proof for that has ever been shown or alluded to.

Your definition of proof must be different than mine.

So why not look at the video of Criss swallwoing the coin and having it travel under his skin and get cut out? Hmm? Too hard to refute by claiming trickery? Lets get the really "impossible to refute without looking like a total moron " video's up on here and see if they can come up with some rational excuse for those.

Look at the coin at the end, the intials are KA, when shown the coin at the start the intials are Ka, smaller case A. Still a good trick. Fake skin and a bleeding Knife. Ive never said he wasn't a good magician.
If you into swallowing feats this guy is the best I have seen.



[edit on 10-8-2007 by pavil]
Pesky Quotes

[edit on 10-8-2007 by pavil]

[edit on 10-8-2007 by pavil]

Originally posted by pavil
Look at the coin at the end, the intials are KA, when shown the coin at the start the intials are Ka, smaller case A. Still a good trick. Fake skin and a bleeding Knife. Ive never said he wasn't a good magician.

It is very important to learn to be a critical observer

There is no fake skin and no bleeding knife in this feat.

You need to take a closer look...

Criss Angel Swallows Quarter & Then Cuts It Out Of His Arm

He asks the young lady with the French last name and sexy top to sign both sides of the coin

The initials "ka" are therefore on the front and back, which Criss Angel flips over in his hand for the camera before swallowing it.

On one side is "KA" and on the other is "Ka."

No tricks here. He does exactly what is shown.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
It is very important to learn to be a critical observer

I stand corrected on the coin. the fake skin and blood knife have not been disproven. I have seen similar tricks done up close and personal. It is a good effect. But still a trick.

What "power" does CA use to do this trick then, I am curious.

Pavil; Your entire post above was summed up by the words you used " I assumed " and " a cop out ". etc, etc.

You spend all that time saying nothing that makes any difference. you have ignored the validity of my comments and persist in alluding to spurious nonsense as if it had some meaning. It does not.

It is like trying to explain math to a bored and angry teenager; no matter how capable they may be of comprehending the material, their attitude just will not allow the mind to grasp the obvious value in the evidence at hand. I am NOT going to get bogged down on this one walking man point to the exclsuon of real and valuable issues . Sorry, I have explained it as well as I can and if you cannot see the logic in my version than ignore it and go about your business as you wish.

I believe that the majority of THINKING people will see clearly who is likley right about this matter; case closed.


PR, thanks for posting that video; it is UNDENIABLE BY ANY INTELLIGENT MEANS . It is insulting to the intelligence for someone to allege that this is fake skin and fake coins and just a hoax; my God, if there is NO level of proof that these Denier's will accept, then their blindness and refusal will be so telling that we need do no more than state our case and retire the victor. Done. They have demonstrated the absolute desperation in their openly ridiculous claims as seen above. Fake skin and knife and blood indeed..some people are just blind and happy to be so. I will waste NO MORE time on anyone so deprived of inspiration that they claim that this coin video is a fake; they are just not capable of observing and relating material reality in an accurate manner, and thus should be IGNORED.

From now on so help me I will not respond to openly ridiculous replies like the one above. It is lowering us to waste time on such garbage logic.