criss angel discussion...

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr


But, let me guess, all those people are just paid viral marketers for CA right?

Well to be honest, I asked for unedited, independant film of CA illusions, not 2 second clips cut and edited into the broadcast version.

To eyewitness, I know you think that many of us disbelievers just cant grasp that there are things beyong the mundane, but its just not ture. I have no doubt that people have abilities in this world that press the rules we usually live by, but I just dont believe CA is using some gift to float down a hotel.

All in all, Criss Angel is master at what he does, whatever it may be. Whether he's the real deal or just a wicked illusionist, doesnt really matter all that much to me, and doesnt take away from the overall effect he produces.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
I have no doubt that people have abilities in this world that press the rules we usually live by, but I just dont believe CA is using some gift to float down a hotel.

What is your criteria in determining a genuine Gift of Telekinesis?

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
I have no doubt that people have abilities in this world that press the rules we usually live by, but I just dont believe CA is using some gift to float down a hotel.

What is your criteria in determining a genuine Gift of Telekinesis?

My criteria is that he is a trained and mastered illusionist. Its his job to amaze, bewonder, and entertain, and thats what he does.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
What is your criteria in determining a genuine Gift of Telekinesis?

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
My criteria is that he is a trained and mastered illusionist. Its his job to amaze, bewonder, and entertain, and thats what he does.

That's dodging the question.

I'll rephrase...

Are we to assume that you don't believe that Gifts of the Spirit - like Telekinesis - are even possible?

[edit on 30-7-2007 by Paul_Richard]

There is no mystery here Paul.

InSpiteOf seems to believe it's possible to have these "gifts" and would base his belief in an individual on proof...while you believe on faith and faith alone.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

That's dodging the question.

Sorry you feel that way, i refer you to this, which you actually quoted earlier.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
I have no doubt that people have abilities in this world that press the rules we usually live by, but I just dont believe CA is using some gift to float down a hotel.

I think that pretty much sums up my feelings on the issue
1) I believe that "Gifts of the Spirit - like Telekinesis" are possible.
2) I do not believe that Criss Angel has such a gift.

Kinglizard got it dead on.

If one day, Criss comes forward and says lets do some scientific tests to show im legit, and it checks out, you can count me on your side. Untill then, he is just an Illusionist to me.

[edit on 30-7-2007 by InSpiteOf]

Originally posted by InSpiteOf

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr


But, let me guess, all those people are just paid viral marketers for CA right?

Well to be honest, I asked for unedited, independant film of CA illusions, not 2 second clips cut and edited into the broadcast version.

Of course; the point is that the independent photos/footage do exist, and there are many independent witnesses out there who can verify that CA levitates with no props, no invisible cranes or hot-air balloons, nothing. Also, you can't call "camera tricks and film editing" on the independent footage..........

To eyewitness, I know you think that many of us disbelievers just cant grasp that there are things beyong the mundane, but its just not ture. I have no doubt that people have abilities in this world that press the rules we usually live by, but I just dont believe CA is using some gift to float down a hotel.

You believe that people do have these abilities, you just don't believe that they would use them like that? Well, why wouldn't they use them in spectacular ways?

Why is it so hard to believe that a person could master both "stage magic" and "real magick" - the mystical traditions that lead to people levitating, teleporting, bending spoons, materializing objects out of thin air etc?

Originally posted by kinglizard
InSpiteOf seems to believe it's possible to have these "gifts" and would base his belief in an individual on proof...while you believe on faith and faith alone.

Your assumption is incorrect.

In contrast to your belief in Jesus being divine and not just having been a prophet (as is my awareness), I don't base my understanding on telekinesis on blind faith. That would be ludicrous and laughable. Instead, I base it mainly on personal experience.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
1) I believe that "Gifts of the Spirit - like Telekinesis" are possible.
2) I do not believe that Criss Angel has such a gift.

Thank you for answering the question.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
If one day, Criss comes forward and says lets do some scientific tests to show im legit, and it checks out, you can count me on your side. Untill then, he is just an Illusionist to me.

That day will never happen. He has too much money too lose from doing so.

But he has said publicly that a lot of what he does is real and that he leaves it up to the audience to decide for themselves.

Do you have an example of anyone that you have concluded has a Gift of Telekinesis and who is in the flesh now?

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
If one day, Criss comes forward and says lets do some scientific tests to show im legit, and it checks out, you can count me on your side. Untill then, he is just an Illusionist to me.

That day will never happen. He has too much money too lose from doing so

firstly appologies for replying to the last post first - but i am too busy today

but - WHAT ?

that is the weakest excuse i have heard

how will scientific validation have a negative impact , unless it exposes him as a fraud ?

when it emerges thjat he is unable to preform without his toys and camera tricks - that will hurt his revenue stream .

at the moment to are not doing mr angel any favours by claiming that scientific validation will cost him money

that notion is simply ludicrous

There was a show demonstrating how he did his stunts, hes an illusionist thats it .

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr

Of course; the point is that the independent photos/footage do exist,

Then who has this footage and how come, with the advent of user content sites, it hasnt materialized on the web?

Also, you can't call "camera tricks and film editing" on the independent footage..........

When i see independant footage (not footage editted into a broadcast) then we will talk.

You believe that people do have these abilities, you just don't believe that they would use them like that? Well, why wouldn't they use them in spectacular ways?

Personal belief stemming from my own experiances with those that have gifts.

Why is it so hard to believe that a person could master both "stage magic" and "real magick" - the mystical traditions that lead to people levitating, teleporting, bending spoons, materializing objects out of thin air etc?

Its not so hard, its just unlikely. Criss is an Illusionist, a spectacular one at that. But that is all I see him as.

[edit on 31-7-2007 by InSpiteOf]

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Thank you for answering the question.

no problem, sorry for being unclear.

That day will never happen. He has too much money too lose from doing so.

I too wonder what you mean by this.

But he has said publicly that a lot of what he does is real and that he leaves it up to the audience to decide for themselves.

I see this as showmanship, and not some indication that he is actually using a gift.

Do you have an example of anyone that you have concluded has a Gift of Telekinesis and who is in the flesh now?

No i cant say that i do.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Of course; the point is that the independent photos/footage do exist, and there are many independent witnesses out there who can verify that CA levitates with no props, no invisible cranes or hot-air balloons, nothing. Also, you can't call "camera tricks and film editing" on the independent footage..........

if this mountain of " independant " witness testionny and vid footage exists where is it hosted ?

we want to review it - in its entrity - not as 2 second edited splices

also - as you brought it up - look at the " independant " footage spliced into Mr angels boadcast segment closely

see anything unusual ?

look again :

lighting , exposure , colour balance are all consistant with angels own footage

that is a chuffing miracle

also tracking , framing and stability are all spot on - no wonk , no jerkiness

amazing how a " casual " byestander with thier own camera got all the settings identical

different cameras creat perceptible differences in the end product -

the cam,era crew that follows mr angel around are all profesionals - they do test takes before the event - they carry filters to correctly gell the lighting to the required temp - thier cameras have indicidual controls for precision adjustment of all values - thats why its is usually so easy to tell pro stock from amateur

the " independant footage " in the luxor atrium is indistinguashable from angels own - why is that ?

independant my arse

[edit on 31-7-2007 by ignorant_ape]

I asked youtube what happen to most of the footage that people has been using on this site as evidence of him facking it all. Most of the footage i have seen and its him tellin how he does most of his easier TRICKS. They came back with a reply sayin that they had an annomys email to them sayin that the footage that youtube had of CA was copyright infregment and that they would tattle on youtube. THen POOF most of all the videos on this thread are NO LONGER TO View..


WHat great lengths some people will go to win an argument. Even if they know they are wrong. 2+2=4



srry for the spelling

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
how will scientific validation have a negative impact , unless it exposes him as a fraud ?

You have to understand psychology and the motivation behind what they do.

They do not seek scientific validation - outside of making a ton of money - because they would go from officially being illusionists to officially being telekinetics or demi-gods.

Like the prophet Jesus/Issa was.

They don't want that scrutiny and they certainly don't want all that jealousy directed toward them.

But Criss Angel is not alone. There are others in the same camp.

Like David Blaine for example. Although his Gift is less powerful.

Eyewitness86 is right in his estimation that this is only the beginning. Many more telekinetics - some even more powerful than CA - will eventually emerge. It is just a matter of time.

Those with experience in discernment can discriminate between the magicians and the true telekinetics. That is, even if they are never tested under stict laboratory conditions as Matthew Manning and Uri Geller were in 1974.

How do you tell the difference between an illusionist/magician and someone with a Gift of Telekinesis?

Or are you one of those who don't believe that Gifts of the Spirit exist?

Originally posted by goddogo1
THen POOF most of all the videos on this thread are NO LONGER TO View..

I just checked my links to Criss Angel videos on my Great Reference Links page in my signature and they all still work perfectly.

Originally posted by goddogo1
WHat great lengths some people will go to win an argument. Even if they know they are wrong. 2+2=4

You are so right.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Do you have an example of anyone that you have concluded has a Gift of Telekinesis and who is in the flesh now?

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
No i cant say that i do.

Since you don't have any example to offer, then what would lead us to believe that you are up to the task in determining if someone had a Gift of the Telekinesis in the first place?

Having no frame of reference with which to base your judgment only weakens your argument, as it points to you not having any experience in discrimination.

Care now to offer us an example and why you came to that conclusion?

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Care now to offer us an example and why you came to that conclusion?

I know such people exist because of deep spiritual journeys i have walked threw the years. I have been told, by people far more experianced in the ways of conciousness expansion than I, that such feats are probable, that we may one day see large groups of these people expose their gift, and share it with us.

I judge Criss Angel as one that does not have such a gift because he is a trained Illusionist. If he possessed this gift you speak of, he would use it in all walks of life, at all times.

But of course you have an answer for that little conundrum. Something along the lines of "the group entity only allows him to do it sometimes, and not others."

That answer to me is too much of a cop-out. How does he convince this group entity to grant him his abilities when he does large stunts, but not small ones? If they were so picky, could it not be thought that they may just drop him one day? I dont believe he is in touch with a group entity, i do not believe they are giving him these abilities, i do not believe he has a gift.

Your reasons for believing he is in touch with such an entity is based on faith and personal experiance. My reasons for not believing is based on logic (he's an entertainer) and personal experiance.

I know your happy in your smug position but you are just like me, unwilling to accept anything that counters your position. The only difference is, i dont put little smiling rolling faces at the end of my post to show you up.

What in the world makes you think that if Criss had the gifts, that he would have to perform some kind of holy man act and convince everyone? Maybe that is what YOU would do given the abilities, but how can you throw out a blanket statement like that and expect it to pass muster as some kind of accepted truth?

The fact is that a person will act in many ways under many circumstances; you seem to place a religious or mystic basis for this; otherwise you would not assume that having gifts of the spirit would make one give up all else and act in a way that YOU would find acceptable. It fails COMPLETELY in the meaningful thought category and is just one more way to assuage the conscience for denying what all of your instincts and faculties are screaming at you: Criss does NOT need prop's.!!

And saying that because he is an illusionist means that everything he does must be an illusion, is silly..just ludicrous. It is like saying " Because Mr. Jones is a plumber, he is totally unable to do any electrical work whatsoever; one ability renders a human being incapable of doing more than one thing well."

That is just so far from any validity as a belief that it scrapes the bottom of the denier's stack of nonsensical alternatives. there is NO way that any rational person could accept those profound pronouncements of yours as anything more than wild conjecture based on total misrepresentation of the logical and perceptual realities that exist.

So BOTH of your assumptions are beyond the pale and not only wrong as far as the basic premise but the assrtions you make even fail the " Huh " test as well. It is not even balanced; curious what some will believe to cling to denial; a whole new thread could examine the relation between obstinant denial in the face of overwhelming evidence, and the 20 some percent of the people who support Bush; it seems a conundrum that those who would twist obvious truths to seem somehow relevant would be at home in the land of denial, obfuscation and misstatements of fact as the norm that the Bushies inhabit as well. Curious..

Anyway, your premises have been shown to be invalid and the opposite of what reality can and is, and so you had better get back to the drawing board to try and find a way to continue the stubborn denial of the truth.