criss angel discussion...

This is getting tiring. EVERY ONE,eh? You did NOT see the video's that show the people at heights well above the ground, people in OTHER HOTELS , AND the film from the helicopter, which show CRISS quite clearly and NOT a mere ' dot '.

The supposed ' something ' allegedly above Criss is not observeable to me as anything that could POSSIBLY affect the event. Perhaps a light effect from the helicopter that was circling, who knows? But it is NOT anything that could POSSIBLY be a support structure of any type at all, no way.

When Criss is fully illuminated and hovering well above the tiny platform at the apex of the pyramid, it is plain and clear to any impartial observer that there are NO supports above him and NONE below. He is clearly alone and not touching anything. You can see his feet and his body and arms and all are unaffected by any motion that would be apparent if he was suspended and hanging from some contraption( no one dared comment on the FACT that large and costly and permitted structural changes necessary to get some props involved is quite impossible.

Las Vegas Hotels are not allowed to so much as drill a hole into a structural support without a permit; see the reg's if you doubt that. To attach some mechanisms to the hotel(s) involved that would account for what we see would be a huge undertaking, requiring permits, inspectors, insurance waivers, structural engineers plans, etc. Does anyone really believe that this was all accomplished yet invisible; or was it all ripped out and removed and the structure made original again during the hours between the time of the event at night, and daybreak the next moring when the Luxor was seen( still original and unaffected ).

Now, the naysayers do NOT want to get to the golf course video because they then do not have the NIGHT excuse to allege little ' somethings ' in the air..darkness suits them well for onfuscation and denial. The golf course video shows the fact that the sky was viewed by multiple witnesses, the sky was empty, and cameras were given to bystanders to shoot as they wished, so collusion could not be alleged.

Criss lifts off and travels quite a distance, ets down, and then lifts off for the big levitation over trees. The bystanders are in awe and amazed. THEY are right there, THEY know that there were NO cranes or anything else that could account for the event. The standard nonsense is that it is all paid off and video tricks; that is the refuge of the last hopes for denial, so silly to assume that with NO props and in broad daylight so many intelligent people could be fooled. No way.

So quibble all you want about nonsense and supposed dots and such; you are in DENIAL, plain and simple. You cannot and will not admit anythjing that surpasses your limited view of reality, period. Remember in the movie " Mars Attacks " when the redneck parents of the soldier Billy Joe see him vaporized by a Martian attacker ? As they see it on TV and the horror of it hits them, the father turns the TV off quickly and says " No, no, it didn't happen..it could'nt..".

THAT is the mindset here with the deniers; like I said . if Criss walked into their own homes and disappeared right in front of their eyes, they would think that they were either crazy or had been doped with a hallucinogen. They CANNOT believe so they reach for even the most preposterous possible meanms of deniying the obvious.

WE are NOT trying to prove it is real..wrong!! YOU, with NO empirical evidence, have that burden, to prove that it is a phony you need evidence, and you have none. WE have massive amounts of witness testimony, WE have scores of unaltered video footage clearly showing the events; YOU have nothing but maybe a ' something ' that may or may not be anything at all as your main thrust..sad.

Stack up the evidence on both sides and see what a normal person would say. When you look at the evidence FOR Criss having ' special powers ' and then look at the ' evidence ' against such a possibility, you can see immediately and plainly that it is not even close: The naysayers seem impotent and weak in garbled responses about petty side issues while the MAIN issues are hands down on our side all the way.

the doubter has to stretch and push the limits of reason to breaking to get around the truth; if that effort was spent researching, it would result in many more people getting a handle on the facts, and far fewer spouting silly sidetracks and non-critical elements into the fracas to deflect attention away from the obvious and telling lack of substantive proof.

Tell you what, let's talk about the gold course event now; the fact that the Luxor was at night gave the doubters enough wiggle room to obscure the issue once again so lets hear the ways that the GOLF COURSE event was staged, OK? Then we will get into the coin in the flesh matters and the many other INEXPLICABLE ( by ordinary means ) events that defy rational explanation by common means.

The truth is kind of like a shot kids get with a hypodermic needle for immunizations; they resist, they struggle, and we know it will hurt a little at first, and if necessary we will hold them down and make them accept it, as we know it is for their own long term good. The screaming and hollering we hear now is the sound of the kid's getting the feel of the needle, and after it is over, when the kid reailzes that Ma and Pa really DO care and are NOT tirtuting them, they will see that it was indeed for their own good and not a selfish and cruel act.

While it may not be true in this case that ' it hurts me more than it does you' still I know that in the long run it is beneficial for at least some of you doubters to get the benefit of some forced logic so that in the future you might actually see WHY we are remaining solid despite all of the silly naysaying and ridiculous excuses for what you see..we ALL benefit when even ONE more person opens their eyes; the collective consciousness will be benefitted greatly by every opened mind and spirit, and you deserve the attention and help as I know most of you are good and decent and nice people.

You just have never been SUFFICIENTLY challenged and vetted so that you have NO MORE wiggle room in your intellects and spirits and thus may finally be able to see the events for what they are: an example of what using available forces can accomplish . GOLF COURSE!!



Edit: to remove improper quote tag

[edit on 7/29/2007 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by eyewitness86

This is getting tiring. EVERY ONE,eh?

Yes it is – and its because you are a lying , disingenuous evasive troll

( no one dared comment on the FACT that large and costly and permitted structural changes necessary to get some props involved is quite impossible.

Please stop lying – it is undignified

I told you how it could be done – and both solutions were simple and low impact

No structural changes were specified or required – so stop making crap up

You were told that the Luxor already has re-inforced points for machinery service / replacement , window cleaning and other maintenance / repair tasks

You ignored this – and pretended that structural alterations would be required when none were indicated by either of my proposals

That is very dishonest – bordering on trollish

Las Vegas Hotels are not allowed to so much as drill a hole into a structural support without a permit; see the reg's if you doubt that. To attach some mechanisms to the hotel(s) involved that would account for what we see would be a huge undertaking,

Yes they are – stop making crap up

I already told you how I proposed to do it

One solution required a simple hydraulic lift platform – which would be totally self contained –

The other was just 4 spars and guy ropes – with winches – hardly “ massive “ every component could be carried and placed by hand in < 1 hour


Id you look at the structural steel work of a major structure you can see hundreds of bolt holes , welded brackets and eyes that look “ superfluous “ – but they are not – they are built in @ design stage to give attachment / working points of a guaranteed SWL for building service / repair and upgrade operations

And lifting one man 10 m above the apex is childsplay

How do you think they service lift motors the size of dustbins and weighing over 500kg ? or delicate AC equipment

The engineers that design the service areas of these buildings ensure that there are sufficient hard points to deal; with any foreseeable operation

And lifting a 80kg man is , as I say childs play

requiring permits, inspectors, insurance waivers, structural engineers plans, etc. Does anyone really believe that this was all accomplished yet invisible; or was it all ripped out and removed and the structure made original again during the hours between the time of the event at night, and daybreak the next moring when the Luxor was seen( still original and unaffected ).

Stop lying – you are simply repeating the lie – hoping it will be accepted if re told enough times

The engineering solutions I have you were simple and could be executed in minutes by a trained team [ erecting spars and guy lines is not hard – trust me – I did it for a living ]

One of them [ the raise able platform ] required no external apparatus – it could all be withdrawn into the roof space – so would not be visible once the stunt ended

Now, the naysayers do NOT want to get to the golf course video

No – you are lying once again – I set you my own golf course challenge as a pre requisite – you have not answered so – I refuse to invest any time or effort in the golf course stunt

the sky was empty,

No it was not – I told you that there was an object tracking across the scene right above mr angels head

Why have you not accepted my challenge to identify that object – it was a clearly stated pre requisite that you do so before I will invest any of my time / effort in the golf course stunt analysis

You are being evasive and cowardly again

WE have massive amounts of witness testimony,

Where – you have a few people shrieking in a very unconvincing manner and babbling “ did you see that “ and such – that is not witness testimony

WE have scores of unaltered video footage clearly showing the events;

Really can we see this “ unaltered footage “ because all you have shown so far is highly edited broadcast segments from a tee vee show

I am waiting for you to come up with any independently hosted clips of these witness footages – if they really were independent witnesses why the dearth of actual witness accounts on their own or forum websites

Show me A photo bucket or flickr account with a gallery of chriss angel clips or stills from a fan or one of these “ independent witnesses “

Tell you what, let's talk about the gold course event now;

Lets not – we are not finished with the Luxor stunt – nor have you answered my golf course challenge

. GOLF COURSE!!

Please stay put – two days ago it was “ Luxor or bust “

And I gave you 2 engineering solutions – now you are running away – having failed to address any point raised

You have lied , ignored counter points , you claim “ witnesses “ that there is no evidence of beyond angels own broadcast segments .

You are getting tired and shrill

Please address the points of the Luxor stunt – and if you wish to move on to the golf course stunt – address my golf course challenge



[edit on 29-7-2007 by ignorant_ape]

To the well named IgnorantApe: your descending to calling me a liar and a troll, etc..has just earned you a very deserved place on my total ignore list. You have said NOTHING that changes the truth of my statements.

You totally ignore the requirements for attaching ANYTHING to an existing Structure in Las Vegas. Must I get the Building codes for you? In order to hang some apparatus from adjoining hotels, it would have necessitated a team of engineers, permits, structural integrity estimates, etc. YOU CANNOT IGNORE this FACT. Just by brushing it off and saying that it is easy is ridiculous. just throw a few ropes up, eh? NOT!!

There were eyewitnesses filming the event from adjacent hotels at levels at and above the Luxor, as shown on the full video, and ANY supports, wires, attachments, etc. would have been seen. You cannot so much as drill a hole into the structure of a hotel without approval. It is beyond silly to think that some cheap rig could be hoisted up and made to do the job we see done...it is beyond nonsense.

I have, today, sent a detailed email to Criss himself asking for a clarification on his ' extreme events ' and whether or not he will make a statement I can quote here on ATS. If I get a reply, I will reproduce it here in it's entirety. I asked him to clarify if he will state that he does NOT use prop's, etc, etc, in SOME of his events, notably the high levitations , etc.

From now on, I will confine my replies to polite and intelligent posters. Opposing points of view welcome but with some real value please. It takes a leap of faith to believe that what we are seeing is staged; the excuses we have heard so far are so lame and impossible that they do not deserve consideration; wires and supports that cannot be seen, platforms that are not visible, hovering something or others that hold up the invisible wires, and , oh yeah, the massive structural supports that would be needed to pull off a safe multi-building event, with all of the weeks of permits and paperwork and engineering and inspection..all of those things that there are no records of.

I am going to call the Las Vegas Building Inspector's office first thing Monday am and inquire about the publicly available ( as they must be ) info on whether or not Criss Angel or his company or any company pulled permits for adapting any hotels adjacent to and the Luxor itself during the weeks before the event. No permits, no work on a hotel structure, no attaching ANYTHING . Period. Read the law on it.Done.

Now, if any serious and civil posters wish to contribute real and worthy material to this debate, feel free to do so. Posters dragging side issues and foolish nonsense into the mix will be ignored. I am moving on to the golf course event, which I will post shortly. frim there, we will see what happens. the deniers can hide in the dark of night to deny the Luxor event, but the light of day at the golf course should shed new light on the truth!!

Originally posted by ShAnN
People........don't u know that criss says that he's an illusionist??
I've become a skeptic since i saw "magic's greatest secrets revealed",that masked magician shows you many illusions that you would anytime say it was real........just think about it

I saw Copperfield say the same, that he does 'illusions'. What is your point? I know that a great many of the tricks magicians perform are done using skilled, long-practiced sleight of hand, distraction, misdirection, smoke and mirrors, trick boxes, and other rigged props as their method. That is, imo, a claim based on my own personal observations, which most people agree beyond any reasonable doubt to be true.
That does make one wonder if that is therefore the case in every instance, including the many 'tricks' which no one, and I stress no one, can explain.
But it does not prove that the unsolved ones have also got an equally mundane solution. If they do, I ask why hasn't Randi, or Penn and Teller, or any of the countless people who claim they know for sure there must be a rational explanation, have not yet figured out what they are. You suggest people think about it, good advice for sure, but I suggest going and seeing Copperfield, Angel, or Blaine, etc. live, as well. That is a great way to discount certain theories of how these tricks are done, though one may not figure out how they are done. After seeing levitation, etc. live, in person, myself, at least I can state with some level of credibility that it is not cables, camera tricks, or paid audiences at work. When one has not seen it live, it is easy to accept those theories as possible.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
I already told you how I proposed to do it

One solution required a simple hydraulic lift platform – which would be totally self contained –

The other was just 4 spars and guy ropes – with winches – hardly “ massive “ every component could be carried and placed by hand in < 1 hour
One of them [ the raise able platform ] required no external apparatus – it could all be withdrawn into the roof space – so would not be visible once the stunt ended

I am waiting for you to come up with any independently hosted clips of these witness footages – if they really were independent witnesses why the dearth of actual witness accounts on their own or forum websites
[edit on 29-7-2007 by ignorant_ape]

I can't claim I know that one of your theories was not used, but I can say I doubt that either was. First, by your own statement that the prop would not be visible once the stunt ended, you imply that it would be visible before it was withdrawn after the stunt ended. It is hard to imagine that no one in Las Vegas would have seen something suspicious if there was anything to be seen. Why has no one come forth to say they saw something other than what Angel claims was done? Do you feel that if you were present, you would have seen something no one who was there saw? I witnessed levitation, and I will state for the record that I saw it done without video editting, paid audiences, and in a manner as to prove no cables or wires were employed. You can quote me on that. It doesn't mean that holographs, or some other high technology was used to do the trick. My point is, if Copperfield did it without platforms, cables, paid audience members, or video tricks, why then could not Angel do the same? I am not saying he did do the same, just that having seen it live, I can accept the possibility that he could have.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
I have, today, sent a detailed email to Criss himself asking for a clarification on his ' extreme events ' and whether or not he will make a statement I can quote here on ATS. If I get a reply, I will reproduce it here in it's entirety. I asked him to clarify if he will state that he does NOT use prop's, etc, etc, in SOME of his events, notably the high levitations , etc.

I don't think Criss Angel will respond to your inquiry. However, your attempt to contact him directly for clarification is certainly worthy of applause

Originally posted by eyewitness86
From now on, I will confine my replies to polite and intelligent posters.

I recently decided to do the same.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
I am going to call the Las Vegas Building Inspector's office first thing Monday am and inquire about the publicly available ( as they must be ) info on whether or not Criss Angel or his company or any company pulled permits for adapting any hotels adjacent to and the Luxor itself during the weeks before the event.

Their response or lack of one will say a great deal.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Now, if any serious and civil posters wish to contribute real and worthy material to this debate, feel free to do so. Posters dragging side issues and foolish nonsense into the mix will be ignored. I am moving on to the golf course event, which I will post shortly. frim there, we will see what happens. the deniers can hide in the dark of night to deny the Luxor event, but the light of day at the golf course should shed new light on the truth!!

We should keep abreast of his public activities and plan accordingly.

It would be nice if we could get a few ATS-ers - in addition to 1 Tru Criss Angel Fan - to witness Criss Angel doing one of his off-stage levitations and then provide eyewitness testimony of it in this thread.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
From what you understand? Have you seen someone reproduce Copperfield's levitations? I saw him do it, in person, and don't know how, but I at least have first hand knowledge. Your 'from what I understand' speculation is baseless. If any of you folks who keep insisting it is props, wires, platforms, video editting, etc., actually went and saw it for yourselves you'd have a much better perspective on the whole topic. Right now, you offer nothing but insubstantial guess work. It is hard to see any value in such unsupported commentary.

Heres a wiki article (yeah i know wiki sucks, but it explains it, lists the patent info, and links to the russian vid i saw a while ago explaining the trick)
Copperfield levitation

Hardly baseless speculation, but did you really think he was flying?

LUXOR HOTEL ENGINEERING SUPV. CONFIRMS NO PROPS!!!


OK, here it is: I just got off the phone with SCOTT HAZE, Engineering Supervisor at the Luxor Hotel in Las Vegas, Here is what he told me, verbatim. If you do not believe me, then call Scott at the Luxor yourself and I am sure he will tell you the same thing he told me:

THE LUXOR HOTEL DID NOT ADD ANYTHING TO THEIR HOTEL, DID NOT INSTALL OT ALLOW TO BE INSTALLED ANYTHING THAT HAD TO DO WITH CRISS, THERE WERE NO SUPPORTS, PROPS, WIRES, HYDRAULICS, LEVERS OR ANYTHING ELSE IN THE HOTEL or attached to the hotel or any othert hotel, AND ESPECIALLY AT THE UPPER LEVELS.SCOTT SAID THAT " THERE WAS NOTHING UP THERE BUT LIGHTS No props, no platforms, nothing but Criss. "

There you have it, from the man at the Luxor who would know: NO additions, NO supports, NO wires, NO platforms, NOTHING but Criss Angel and his abilities. I was VERY specific in my questions and allowed NO wiggle room. Scott was quite clear in stating that the hotel WOULD have to get permits and engineering studies, etc, before ANY mechanicals could be installed or attached to the Hotel.

The full video shows Criss walking alone up the stairs and final ascent to the roof, and the 800 degree 42.3 BILLION candlepower xenon light and his ability to defy gravity. Scott emphacized that there was NOTHING done to the hotel and nothing there that could possible have contributed in ANY way to the event.

As far as I am concerned, the Luxor Hotel levitation can now be stated to be an actual event, a true levitation, and the FACT that NO props were POSSIBLE in any way, shape or form makes this a done deal. You CANNOT any longer claim any of the spurious and silly ways in which the event could have been done OTHER than the apparent.

The Luxor Hotel levitation is now confirmed and established as an example of the abilities Criss Angel has to use forces other than the physical to perform his feats. This should close the book on the Luxor event.

If I had thought about calling them direct a long time ago, we could have saved a lot of hassle explaining reality to the dull of wit and the banal of spirit. To those who STILL cling to your stubborn resistance to accepting the truth, all I can say is that if you believe that the Engineering Dept. at the Luxor are a bunch of liars on Criss payroll, you are beyond convincing no matter how much evidence is preseented and thus are incapable of further progress and not worthy of wasting any more time on.

The Luxor event is PROVEN!! Now let's hear about how he faked the gold course levitation..if you can. Foolish and nonsensical replies will be ignored. The PROOF has been presented, accept it or crawl back into your comfy den of ignorance and leave the people with real insights and open minds alone; you do not add, you detract; you do not convice and you do not amuse. You are plain boring. Come up with an INTELLIGENT and LIKELY solution or admit being stumped. That at least is honest; denial without reason is just stupid.

eyewitness: Great detective work there, way to go!

However, I don't think insulting the skeptics constantly is helping your case... why would people want to believe you while you're insulting them?

My apologies for anyone who took my words as an insult. I guess after being called a ' liar, coward, troll,etc " by IA I got a little hot under the collar. I apologize sincerely. I should NOT go to the level that the denier's descend to, you are right.

I just get so sick and tired of baseless and empty replies that parrot the same old nonsense and impossible suppositions that at times it get frustrating, as anyone can imagine. PaulRichard and I, among some few others, have gamely held fast to the facts in the face of silly and impossible ' alternatives', pointed out the massive descrepancies in the assumptions that would lead to any other than the correct view of the matter, and endured insults and prevarications galore to try and keep the focus on the main issues.

Now that the Luxor has confirmed NO PROPS I can just imagine the response of the Denier's; the silly excuses they will try to use to deflect this truth will be interesting to read, but disheartening in the sense that no one wants people to remain in ignorance when the truth is so readily available and evident.

But you are right in that I should not ascribe dull wit to such groundless denials; it is blindness, intentional blindness for comforts sake. remember the old line from the song " There is none so blind, as he who WILL NOT SEE". Those with an open mind can be worked with, but those who wallow in denial as a means of escaping uncomfortable and paradigm shattering realities CANNOT be worked with, all they do is confuse the unaware and muddy the water with clouds of hyperbole and innuendo and misstated
facts. I should not be angry at the blind, but it is hard for anyone to feel much sympathy for someone who is not blind but wearing shades so dark that NO LIGHT gets in. All they have to do is take them off and SEE!!

Again, sincere apologies for my using terms above that are not in the spirit of civilzed debate, mea culpa.

Now, on to the more critical issues, like HOW did Criss do the Luxor event in light of the new facts? Or better yet, let's talk about the golf course event and see if yet another wall can be broken down and new possibilites opened up to even more enquiring minds .

awesome work eyewitness86

i am very happy that i have created this thread...

yes, it is very popular...

just check out how many views it has received since its birth

i hate to pee on the belivers parade - but the luxor hotel has a $200 million contract with mr angel and a circus . these contracts - where intulectual property / proprietory information is at stake [ ie how stunts are preformed etc ] always contain confidetiality clauses / NDAs

so common sense tells any one who still poseses it - that the hotel management is not going to blow the whistle on angels antics with so much money riding on thier relationship

that puts mr hazes alledged testimony in context - PS - itsnt it amazing that hotel management have nothing better to do than answer phonecalls about chris angel in person

and eyewitness - i stand behind my descision to call you a liar .

if that bothers you - tough .

Originally posted by eyewitness86
My apologies for anyone who took my words as an insult. I guess after being called a ' liar, coward, troll,etc " by IA I got a little hot under the collar. I apologize sincerely.

How noble of you. You realized a mistake and you corrected it...

I should NOT go to the level that the denier's descend to, you are right.

Right...an appology followed by a statement of how we deniers sink to such low levels.

The reason you were called a liar is found here:

( no one dared comment on the FACT that large and costly and permitted structural changes necessary to get some props involved is quite impossible.

When infact IA did comment on that. Maybe you missed his post, maybe you ignored it, i dont know. but someone did comment on your "fact" and did so intelligently. The fact is that the Luxor is already set up for such rigging, as are the adjacent hotels. All necessary re-enforcements (eyes, hooks, bolts, whatever else) are planned and built into the original structure. They do not require any excess drilling into supports as you suggest. There is no major construction as you suggest.

I do applaud you for your detective work, but question the reason you called the onsite (im assuming) hotel engineer (an employee of the hotel and under confidentiality agreements) in stead of say, the Las Vegas Planning and Permit office.

Also, as IA stated, we are still waiting for these independant, undoctored film clips and footage you claim to have of the event.

I can understand why would have felt personally attacked, but i think its funny that you ignore the one person qualified to answer the engineering side of CA's illusions.

[edit on 30-7-2007 by InSpiteOf]

OMG, it's true....

Some people will believe anything. My dad always told me about this, I didn't beleive him.

I guess there's no chance that the guy you called at the Luxor, was telling a fib or partial truth, nah just couldn't be. Hear me out.

You're the guy at the Luxor, sitting in your office and the phone rings...

"hello", "you want to know about the hidded props and tricks we used for CA to perform the illusion"....

*thinks to himself* - this is going to be good, watch what I do..

"umm, sir, thanks for your call, but there were no props, no tricks nothing, that man really flew above our hotel, I hope this helps your investigation."

just as if I would have call him and said... " I'm trying to prove that it was fake and that there were props used"

He could have answered " oh yeah, those props, we'll we're not supposed to talk about it, but it was a trick, an illusion, looked cool though".

So your phone call proves nothing.

Originally posted by elevatedone
So your phone call proves nothing.

By itself, no.

But a man levitating high in the air, or floating down from a high place, in extremely public locations, in front of many independent eyewitnesses, and being captured on many different cameras, something no other magician can do - in conjunction with the phone call, proves a lot....

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr

By itself, no.

But a man levitating high in the air, or floating down from a high place, in extremely public locations, in front of many independent eyewitnesses, and being captured on many different cameras, something no other magician can do - in conjunction with the phone call, proves a lot....

So once again we ask, where is this mountain of independant footage? ANd unfortunately the phone call only provides circumstancial evidence. If a confidentiality agreement or NDA is in place, the phone call is negated.

[edit on 30-7-2007 by InSpiteOf]

Oh my God, here we go. WHO is able to talk about engineering and the process? Who? The engineers at the hotel or some poster with wild guesses?

There are NO elements of the Luxor already set to accomodate stunts. It does not exist. Who said that such things are in place on the hotel? Where did they get the info from? How can anyone assume that these hotels are all equipped for additional mechanics without permits or adaptation?

The nonsense about the Hotel staff being paid off or unable to speak the truth is the HEIGHT of denial and foolish assumptions. I KNEW that this would be the ONLY wiggle that the denier's have left; insult the staff at the hotel and assume they are liars under some orders..Is there ANY proof of ANY agreements between Criss and the hotels as far as confidentiality?
Is there ANY proof that Scott Haze is a liar?

Now we have half of the Strip in on the big secret, eh? To believe that these hotals have supports already in place for just such events is laughable; where are they? How could the supports be exactly what is needed for every event? I could ask questions that they cannot answer all day, but the fact is that a certain percentage of the public is just NOT able to accept certain things, no matter what.

NOTHING wil convince you, NOTHING makes any difference to you; absolute proof would simply be swept away as you sweep all truth away.

The Engineering Dept. says that Criss had NO props, there is NO evidence of props, there is NO indication of props, the hotel has DENIED that there was props.. I will call the Permit Dept. today if possible and ask if permits were pulled for the Luxor in the weeks prior to the event; but if they say NO, then the deniers will say " But no permits are needed because the supposed attachments are already there!!". Suuure they are, and the fact that there are not apparent or acknowledged by the hotel and could not have been used anyway due to the video proof..but WHAT DOES ALL THAT MATTER TO THE BLIND??

I was trying hard not to respond to such stuff anymore but the nonsense about existing attachments to the hotels, attachments that cannot be seen and would not apply to this event anyway are so silly...the deniers are desperate and it is showing..How can the sorry excuses for an alternative answer be given ANY credence at this point?

The Hotel says NO PROPS. Criss says NO PROPS. your own eyes say NO PROPS, the video says NO PROPS.. yet still somehow you cling to the old " Must be some props somewhere!! Somehow..Unreal.

I will call again to the Luxor and ask if they indeed have anything like is suggested above that could be used..but wait..that won't work because all of the thousands of employees of the hotels are under orders to lie for Criss..I forgot, silly me.. Oh well, better move on to the next area of contest.

I believe that anyone with any real judgemental abilities has already dismissed the claptrap we have heard so far and will see the obvious:

The Luxor did NOT have anything at the hotel that aided Criss in the event, as their representative stated.

The Luxor denies that any apparatus whatsoever was installed or allowed or USED in the Criss event.

To believe that the entire staff at all levels will lie to protect some entertainers events is just ridiculous, beyond silly, not believable at all.

Like I said before and the denier's cannot deal with is the fact that some people just CANNOT conceive of a human being that is able to defy gravity and so they are stuck at a stage of denial that renders them unable to respond with rational alternatives, plain and simple.

It is NOT the facts at issue, but the denial and refusal to see the light. No reasonable person could go to the extreme lengths that the deniers do to try and explain this away.

LOOK at the video..HOW could the attachments that the deniers claim are there possible affect THIS event? They could NOT!! Rings and attachments for banners and such are FAR different than what is needed for such an event as seen, no way can they be used as proof of anything. It is a distraction and silly and not valid. Deniers are making WILD GUESSES NOT SUPPORTED BY EVIDENCE AT ALL. THAT is a FACT!!

I will track this down and get more proof until the deniers either flee in shame and give up or admit they are stumped. Only so much evidence can be ignored and they will, sooner or later, have to relent or be seen as frivolous and silly promoters of a failed hypothesis. The ridiculous should never take a back seat to the sublime, and I will keep on getting evidence until the average person has no doubts at all, and the deniers are finally made to back away lest they appear any more unable to see reality than they are now. That should not take long as they are at the edge of having a total lack of support for such incredible stretches of imagniation that would allow a belief in any props at all.

NO AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE will convince some people, they are unconvincable and will deny all and any evidence that disagrees with their preconceived notions, so further attemots to sway them are useless; the people who ARE able to see the truth and CAN be worked with are the ones I am trying to help see the light; at least they will not deny forever without cause and may yet see the truth.

I believe that the average reader of thios thread is firmly convinced that the answer is likley the one WE propose, and the chance of YOUR explanation is so far out of the bounds of the realistic that it can be honestly be said that at this point we hold the high ground and the deniers are swinging in the wind, with nothing holding them up but their excuses.

on what date was the Luxor Illusion performed?
I have an idea, might just work too...

could prove it was a trick or it was real.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr

By itself, no.

But a man levitating high in the air, or floating down from a high place, in extremely public locations, in front of many independent eyewitnesses, and being captured on many different cameras, something no other magician can do - in conjunction with the phone call, proves a lot....

So once again we ask, where is this mountain of independant footage?

They show testimony from independent witnesses and footage from their independent cameras after many of his feats. Like the Luxor Atrium levitation.

But, let me guess, all those people are just paid viral marketers for CA right?

It is good to see this thread moving toward a more progressive understanding on this heated issue.

Kudos to Eyewitness86 for his excellent investigative work in obtaining the testimony of an excellent reference at the Luxor Hotel at Las Vegas: Scott Haze, Engineering Supervisor





[edit on 30-7-2007 by Paul_Richard]