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The Logic of Suicide Terrorism: It’s the Occupation, not the Fundamentalism

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posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 09:13 AM
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Well Well Well, another America bashing thread from Souljah.....how nice.

I heard the good Dr. on the Dennis Prager show earlier this week.

He mentioned that the occupation in Iraq and Afghanistan gives the recruiters ammo to recruit suicide bombers and he made a good case, but he kept dancing around the religious part. The fact that Islam is the fire that fuels these suicide bombers.....not any "occupation"

So I wonder what excuses the suicide bombers had in London?

or in the Shiite Mosques in Pakistan?

or against America on 9/11?

He kept mentioning Americas "combat troops" stationed in the ME prior to 9/11, but I think the good professor does not know the difference between Combat troops and support troops that were there by invitation.

I think Islamic radicals use the word "occupation" as an excuse to carry on their Holy War and even if there was no occupation, than they would find another excuse to butcher innocents.....it all boils down to their religion.


Maximu§

[edit on 093131p://555 by LA_Maximus]




posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 09:17 AM
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I think me and LA might be on the same side of the argument table in this thread.....



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 12:02 PM
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I think Islamic radicals use the word "occupation" as an excuse to carry on their Holy War and even if there was no occupation, than they would find another excuse to butcher innocents.....it all boils down to their religion.


It's not so much their religion as it is the fanatical belief around their religion that makes them such a discusting group.

People that are recruited to do suicide attacks are usually promised that their families will be taken care of monitarily after they carry out their deed. Since these suicide terrorists usually come from poorer groups they are essentially 'bribed' into killing people in the hopes that their families are taken care of with the blood money. Not to say that some of these attackers are not affluant, but just as a general statement.

Its the more affluant and diabolical that are the ringleaders and recruiting these kids to become terrorists.

So occupation is only an excuse for killing civilians, terrorists do what they do for power, fear and greed. Thats it.



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
So now your saying the iraqi police are only letting certain religious groups join?

Nope - the Iraqi Police does not Receive any Other Religious groups, but Shia Muslims.

I dont think any Other are really waiting in Line for that Job.



So now your saying the insurgent groups are only from certain religious groups.

Errr...Is that Not Clear to You so Far?

From the Original Article:
Our best information at the moment is that the Iraqi suicide terrorists are coming from two groups—Iraqi Sunnis and Saudis.



Then how do you describe parts of the insurgent strategy?
If it was a civil war they would declare war on the other religions and openly attack them NOT fight in the shadows and hit mainy co-alition targets.
That is a guirilla strategy.

War was Declared the Second that US Troops "Liberated" Baghdad, My Friend.

And its still the same story Today: Sunni against Shia Muslims, with Kurds waiting in the Back to start their own private Independace War for Kurdistan.

And there You have it, the Iraq of the Future: split into 3 Main Ethnic and Religious States.



No not really, if they where they would put an american government in and not a local.
Did they have an election?
Yes they did.
Its your opinion if it was democratic or not.

You mean they were elected by the Majority of the Shia and Kurdish population?

That still does not mean that the Goverment is Democraticly Elected and that it represents ALL SIDES in Iraq.

Why The Iraqi Election had NOTHING to do with Democracy?



So by makeing the exscuse its 21st centuary warfare your saying I could kill any civilian I want and rape, pillage and basically break every rule in any religion?.

Sorry Buddy, but I did not Create this Rules that are in effect Today.

Apparently its OK when the good old CIA kidnaps some foreign civilans.

And its OK when these Civilans are then Tortured and Abused in every way possible in Detention Camps.

Now I am not saying that its the RIGHT thing to do, but the Hypochrisy of United States is so Obvious and so Sickening when it comes to topic like this, that I still dont understand why are people so Surprised, when somebody else uses THEIR own weapon against them.



Because the good old USA done it before that makes it all right?
Takeing that view simply proves that those americans that think the iraqi's are savages where right.
But hey its not whats inside that dictates what we are, its what we do.

Hey - if they can DO it, why cant WE?

That is the Quesiton that most of the People are asking themselves.

What is the Biggest difference between the US and the Terrorists in Iraq?

One is "Legitimate" and the other is Not.

I am not saying its the Right thing do to, but its the Effective Thing to do.

American Forces have Killled ALOT of Civilians in the past 50 years of "Spreading Peace and Democracy".

Check this Topics:

Conquest, Blood and Money

Century of War



If your going to laugh go ahead, but you are the only one being ignorant here.
A half truth is the easiest and best way to justify anything.
Why?
Look at the iraq war, did they have WMD's = yes.
Where they being destroyed? = Yes
Is that justification for war? =NO

Try and understand both sides an argument before joining one side.

Yes, they had WMD's that the US Sold them - but they were all Destroyed.

So, what was the MAIN REASON again for this War in Iraq?

That Saddam is Connected to Al-Qaeda?

All I can say to this Logic is the Following Picture, that Speaks more then a Thousand Words:



And to Justify the Title of the Topic and the Logic of Terrorism:

NO Occupation = NO Suicide Terrorism:

Many people worry that once a large number of suicide terrorists have acted that it is impossible to wind it down. The history of the last 20 years, however, shows the opposite. Once the occupying forces withdraw from the homeland territory of the terrorists, they often stop—and often on a dime.

In Lebanon, for instance, there were 41 suicide-terrorist attacks from 1982 to 1986, and after the U.S. withdrew its forces, France withdrew its forces, and then Israel withdrew to just that six-mile buffer zone of Lebanon, they virtually ceased. They didn’t completely stop, but there was no campaign of suicide terrorism. Once Israel withdrew from the vast bulk of Lebanese territory, the suicide terrorists did not follow Israel to Tel Aviv.

This is also the pattern of the second Intifada with the Palestinians. As Israel is at least promising to withdraw from Palestinian-controlled territory (in addition to some other factors), there has been a decline of that ferocious suicide-terrorist campaign. This is just more evidence that withdrawal of military forces really does diminish the ability of the terrorist leaders to recruit more suicide terrorists.



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 01:52 PM
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umm Souljah if there was no occupation on Afghanistan by American troops before 9/11 maybe u can explain that?
Osama decided to attack America, he didnt stop.



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by LA_Maximus
I think Islamic radicals use the word "occupation" as an excuse to carry on their Holy War and even if there was no occupation, than they would find another excuse to butcher innocents.....it all boils down to their religion.

IF there is NO Occupation there is NO Terrorism.

Read the Last 3 Paragraphs in my Previous Post for mister devilwasp.



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
umm Souljah if there was no occupation on Afghanistan by American troops before 9/11 maybe u can explain that?
Osama decided to attack America, he didnt stop.

Osama is a SAUDI ARABIAN, and not from Afganistan.

And he is on CIA Payrole.

Do the Math, Boy.



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 02:10 PM
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If there is no occupation
there is no terrorism. hmm..

Because it will then be called "Civil War".
Faction against faction.

Before that, it was called Dictatorship.

The longer the attempts of The US, and other counties, are undermined, by
those who claim to be anti-war, the longer the war will go on.

Terrorists, are emboldened by anti-US statements, anti-bush statements, etc..It feeds thier cause, and provides excellent propaganda, for recruiting,
"the boy next door" bombers..As we've most recently seen in the UK..



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah

And he is on CIA Payrole.

Do the Math, Boy.


sorry but i dont believe that he is on a CIA payroll where he is paid to terrorize he own employers. Osama works on his own since he is a millionaire and use drug money and fake charities.



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 02:19 PM
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as posted by Souljah
And he is on CIA Payrole.


A link or source?
If anything at all, Souljah, the correct assertion or claim would be "was," as in past tense.





seekerof



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 02:25 PM
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as posted by Souljah
IF there is NO Occupation there is NO Terrorism.


That is an absolute statement and is incorrectly utilized in its improper form, Souljah. It is only applicable in a few applied cases. You give no reference to those exceptional applied cases, and need to when using that absolute, yet incorrect, statement.

Terrorism has been around longer than those few exceptional applied cases that you can possibly give. An adequate research into the history of Terrorism would verify thus for you: that Terrorism is performed not solely based on the occupation theory or correlation.




seekerof



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 02:33 PM
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Interesting, No?


What's even more interesting, is the failure to mention the monetary, not idealistic, goals for suicide bombers.

Numerous Islamic "charities" will pay considerable cash sums to the surviving family members of such bombers. When such a bombing is planned (and they are planned), this funding is all agreed upon, arranged, etc.

People aren't blowing themselves up for idealogy or martyrdom, they are doing it for the very thing such groups claim to despise....Greed and capitalism.

Palestine isn't and never was a nation in any modern reckoning. I'm all for the creation of a Palestinian state, but that isn't really what they want is it? They want nothing less than the complete destruction of Israel. They could have had their state a decade ago....they said no....they prefer to keep blowing up civilians.... Israel is no saint in this either. Their reactions have been nearly as deplorable as what they are responding to. Given all of this, is there any doubt as to why the West simply doesn't give a damn much anymore, and says the hell with all of it?



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by TacOps Security

People that are recruited to do suicide attacks are usually promised that their families will be taken care of monitarily after they carry out their deed. Since these suicide terrorists usually come from poorer groups they are essentially 'bribed' into killing people in the hopes that their families are taken care of with the blood money. Not to say that some of these attackers are not affluant, but just as a general statement.



Damn, you and Gazok make a good point.

Its all about the Money. Their ensuring their families future by doing this horrible act....perhaps if the indentity of the suicide bomber is known, a check might be made into his families bank account and the extra $10,000 that just appeared gets seized.

This way, a suicide bomber knows that its all for nothing...no "bling-bling" for his family and no virgins in paradise......just a greasy spot on the pavement.

Maximu§



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Nope - the Iraqi Police does not Receive any Other Religious groups, but Shia Muslims.

I dont think any Other are really waiting in Line for that Job.

Really?
Any proof of this?




Errr...Is that Not Clear to You so Far?

From the Original Article:
Our best information at the moment is that the Iraqi suicide terrorists are coming from two groups—Iraqi Sunnis and Saudis.

Yes and "our best information" got us into this war.



War was Declared the Second that US Troops "Liberated" Baghdad, My Friend.

Yes mabye against the US and its co-alition allies but not against other religions.


And its still the same story Today: Sunni against Shia Muslims, with Kurds waiting in the Back to start their own private Independace War for Kurdistan.

Then why is there no open war?
Why hidden fighitng?


And there You have it, the Iraq of the Future: split into 3 Main Ethnic and Religious States.

Yeah and this is worse than 2 being opressed because....


You mean they were elected by the Majority of the Shia and Kurdish population?

That still does not mean that the Goverment is Democraticly Elected and that it represents ALL SIDES in Iraq.

Why The Iraqi Election had NOTHING to do with Democracy?

As I said , they had an election.
Whether or not it was democratic or not is not what I asked.



Sorry Buddy, but I did not Create this Rules that are in effect Today.

Apparently its OK when the good old CIA kidnaps some foreign civilans.

And its OK when these Civilans are then Tortured and Abused in every way possible in Detention Camps.

Now I am not saying that its the RIGHT thing to do, but the Hypochrisy of United States is so Obvious and so Sickening when it comes to topic like this, that I still dont understand why are people so Surprised, when somebody else uses THEIR own weapon against them.

Firstly these are actions of the older generation not the new ones.
The actions of a few soldiers in detention camps is not standard orders, why?
Because believe it or not we are all human.
No you didnt create them, you are saying they are ok to use.
That makes you just as bad as the people who created them, THAT you cant deny.



Hey - if they can DO it, why cant WE?

That is the Quesiton that most of the People are asking themselves.

What is the Biggest difference between the US and the Terrorists in Iraq?

One is "Legitimate" and the other is Not.

I am not saying its the Right thing do to, but its the Effective Thing to do.

American Forces have Killled ALOT of Civilians in the past 50 years of "Spreading Peace and Democracy".

Check this Topics:

Conquest, Blood and Money

Century of War

You are still just pointing out anti american links, guess what, I am not american.
If you have a problem with america see an american NOT me, I am british, therefore I have no bearing on american policy or actions.
I asked you a question, because america done it that means the terrorists can do it?
Stop trying to divert the attention away from the question and onto saying "america done this!" THAT doesnt intrest me in the slightest at the moment, YOUR answer does.



Yes, they had WMD's that the US Sold them - but they were all Destroyed.

So the chemical weapons being destroyed up until the point of war will not and did not exist?
Iraq had WMD's BUT those WMD's where being destroyed.



So, what was the MAIN REASON again for this War in Iraq?

That Saddam is Connected to Al-Qaeda?

All I can say to this Logic is the Following Picture, that Speaks more then a Thousand Words:



Yet again GO BACK ON TOPIC.
You are dodging my questions.


And to Justify the Title of the Topic and the Logic of Terrorism:

NO Occupation = NO Suicide Terrorism:

I am sorry you logic is flawed.
If you mean on a whole they will be stopped then yes, but random cases WILL happen, how do I know this?
Human nature always prevails.



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
IF there is NO Occupation there is NO Terrorism.

That is not assured, THAT is a belief shared by a few.
If that where so 9/11 should not have occured.



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 09:23 PM
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Terrorism has been around much longer than occupation.



posted on Jul, 15 2005 @ 09:47 PM
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I'd just like to point out the fact that 911 happened doesnt neccesarilly rule out the occupation theory. One of Osama Binladens (and by extension Al Quaeda's) main complaints has always been the American military presence in Saudi Arabia. We already know the militants barely consider the Saudi regime legitimate because of its relationship with America perhaps they have made the jump to the conclusion that they are under occupation by American forces. Its not that much of a leap especially for a militant group to make. Heck there are wackos in America who believe we are under some form of occupation.



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 05:44 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
People aren't blowing themselves up for idealogy or martyrdom, they are doing it for the very thing such groups claim to despise....Greed and capitalism.

People DO Blow themselves up for Idealogy and martyrdom - but their Families are then left without one of their Sons.

You think thats GREED?

Call it insurance - its like when you have insurance on yourself, and you end up dead in a car accident, your family gets money then, because they are left alone without you forever. Is that also Greee my Friend?



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 06:02 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Really?
Any proof of this?

Proof?

Dear Sir, its all over the News - you really want me to do reasearch for You?

Errr...Is that Not Clear to You so Far?



Yes and "our best information" got us into this war.

Well you have to Thank your Marvellous Intelligence Agencies for that information.

Its a Civil War down there in Iraq, wheter you Admit it or Not.



Yes mabye against the US and its co-alition allies but not against other religions.

Against the Religious Groups such as Sunn, Shia and Kurds that Live in Iraq. One side is supported by the US and the Coalition, which makes the Abyss even Larger then before.



Then why is there no open war?
Why hidden fighitng?

In the Cities there is the Need to Hide because the Frontlines are not so Clear - when go to the Countryside, the Frontlines are much clearer and People of Iraq know where they are.



As I said , they had an election.
Whether or not it was democratic or not is not what I asked.

So - if you have a Fraud of an Election and just call it Democratic then its OK and the Goverment is Legit? Nice.



Firstly these are actions of the older generation not the new ones.
The actions of a few soldiers in detention camps is not standard orders, why?
Because believe it or not we are all human.
No you didnt create them, you are saying they are ok to use.
That makes you just as bad as the people who created them, THAT you cant deny.

So what makes the USA so Special that they are the Only Ones that can Use this kind of Tactics and Techniques upon others - but when they receive a taste of their own medicine, all Hell Breaks Loose?

I am not saying its OK to use them - I am saying that sooner or later somebody is going to use them, and HEY its Later right now.

What Goes around, Comes around.



You are still just pointing out anti american links, guess what, I am not american.
If you have a problem with america see an american NOT me, I am british, therefore I have no bearing on american policy or actions.
I asked you a question, because america done it that means the terrorists can do it?
Stop trying to divert the attention away from the question and onto saying "america done this!" THAT doesnt intrest me in the slightest at the moment, YOUR answer does.

But it HAS TO Interest you, since You and Your Fellow Americans are in this Togather - meaning the War in Iraq.

You Two Share the Same Fate - and do you think that British Soldiers are treated any better then the American Soldiers standing in the Sand in Iraq? You think the Resistance makes a difference, by saying, hey this one is British, leave him alone - lets go find some US Soldiers?

I am sorry Sir, but Your and American Problems are Common, wheter you like it or not.



I am sorry you logic is flawed.
If you mean on a whole they will be stopped then yes, but random cases WILL happen, how do I know this?
Human nature always prevails.

Occupation bringes Resistance of all Kinds.

Suicide Terrorism is the Answer to Ultra Modern Military Occupation.

Why?

Because its very Unpredictable and its very hard to Fight it with super modern weaponary.

And again I will repeat myself from a number of previous posts:

Islamic Fundamentalism is the answer to Corporate Colonialism.



posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Proof?

Dear Sir, its all over the News - you really want me to do reasearch for You?

Errr...Is that Not Clear to You so Far?

Not clear that its your opinion so far and thats all?
Yes that is very clear.



Well you have to Thank your Marvellous Intelligence Agencies for that information.

Its a Civil War down there in Iraq, wheter you Admit it or Not.

And the ones where you got your information from are not "marvellous" or as good as ours?
If it was civil war then why is there no army being created AKA non suicide bombers.



Against the Religious Groups such as Sunn, Shia and Kurds that Live in Iraq. One side is supported by the US and the Coalition, which makes the Abyss even Larger then before.

That still doesnt mean civil war.



In the Cities there is the Need to Hide because the Frontlines are not so Clear - when go to the Countryside, the Frontlines are much clearer and People of Iraq know where they are.

No in a city there are sitll front lines, the tactics the insurgents or terrorists are using are guirilla tactics which shows they dont care about one specific territory.



So - if you have a Fraud of an Election and just call it Democratic then its OK and the Goverment is Legit? Nice.

Yet again I asked a very spefic question, BTW if the other people could not or did not want to vote then it is still legitimate.
BTW also if something is legitimate or not depends on the persons opinion.



So what makes the USA so Special that they are the Only Ones that can Use this kind of Tactics and Techniques upon others - but when they receive a taste of their own medicine, all Hell Breaks Loose?
[/quote
1stly the US commited those crimes decades ago and recognises them as wrong.
2ndly the US is not commiting the crimes you stated.
3rdly the US does not behead its prisnors and nethier does it kill police officers and use the bodies of these officers to kill civilians.
[quote[
I am not saying its OK to use them - I am saying that sooner or later somebody is going to use them, and HEY its Later right now.

Really?
So the whole supporting the insurgents doesnt mean you support the way they fight or what they fight for?


What Goes around, Comes around.

Last time I checked iraqi civilians hadnt done anything to the insurgents...



But it HAS TO Interest you, since You and Your Fellow Americans are in this Togather - meaning the War in Iraq.

American?
Can you even read my profile?
I am british!
Not american get that through your skull!
I am not in this with anyone!


You Two Share the Same Fate - and do you think that British Soldiers are treated any better then the American Soldiers standing in the Sand in Iraq? You think the Resistance makes a difference, by saying, hey this one is British, leave him alone - lets go find some US Soldiers?

No because the cowards in iraq killed another 3 of my countrymen.
The british are trying to right past wrongs, and only looking out to defend themselves.
If positions reversed we would see british civilian casualties much higher.
[quote[
I am sorry Sir, but Your and American Problems are Common, wheter you like it or not.

I am sorry you dont understand geography considering britain and the US are an ocean apart...



Occupation bringes Resistance of all Kinds.

That is true BUT it doesnt justify any of the cowardly actions by the iraqi insurgents.


Suicide Terrorism is the Answer to Ultra Modern Military Occupation.

Why?

Because its very Unpredictable and its very hard to Fight it with super modern weaponary.

No its easy to fight, but we cant because we believe in morals, something the insurgents seem to easily forget like many terrorist orginisations.


And again I will repeat myself from a number of previous posts:

Islamic Fundamentalism is the answer to Corporate Colonialism.

Yeah thats a great exscuse , going to use that one when your judged by your god for supporting murderers, rapists and torturers?

Mabye the UK should offer the UVF or PIRA some money if they would conduct operations in iraq?







 
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