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The Logic of Suicide Terrorism: It’s the Occupation, not the Fundamentalism

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posted on Jul, 16 2005 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Not clear that its your opinion so far and thats all?
Yes that is very clear.

OK - Let me Research for you then:

Allawi: This is the Start of Civil War

Civil War in Iraq?

Iraq: A Descent into a Civil War?

OK?



And the ones where you got your information from are not "marvellous" or as good as ours?
If it was civil war then why is there no army being created AKA non suicide bombers.

My Friend, there are LOTS of Insurgents in Iraq, enought to make an Army.



No in a city there are sitll front lines, the tactics the insurgents or terrorists are using are guirilla tactics which shows they dont care about one specific territory.

Cities are a little bit Complicated because of two Reasons:

1.They are Full of US and Coalition Forces

2. They are Harder to Control and Harder to draw lines in.



Yet again I asked a very spefic question, BTW if the other people could not or did not want to vote then it is still legitimate.
BTW also if something is legitimate or not depends on the persons opinion.

Did you READ at all the Links I provided about the Election?

You CANT Export Democracy and Impose it!

Its not McDonals Restaurant damnit!



1stly the US commited those crimes decades ago and recognises them as wrong.

What Decades ago?

Guantanamo Bay Prison Camp Delta Ring a Bell?

Air CIA Ring a Bell - where CIA Kidnaps Foreign Citizens without informing the Goverment of the Country that this Citizens are from?

And USA NEVER Admited the Facts behind the Iran-Contra Affairs. Nicaragua brought them to UN Court but USA NEVER Admited them!



2ndly the US is not commiting the crimes you stated.

No?

Are you 100% Sure about that?



3rdly the US does not behead its prisnors and nethier does it kill police officers and use the bodies of these officers to kill civilians.

USA has sponsored This kind and Much Worse Tactics in the Past - remember Cambodia?



Really?
So the whole supporting the insurgents doesnt mean you support the way they fight or what they fight for?

Now who has MADE them to use such tactics and techniques?

Occupation creates Resistance of all Forms and Kinds.

I do not Approve of the Illegal Invasion of Iraq, because it Created even MORE Terror and even more Instability in the Middle Eeastern Region.

I do not support any WARS or any FIGHTING.

But when you Invade a Foreign Country (ILLEGALY!), expect Resistance.

Of all Kind.

"Bring it on!" He Said - and they are Bringing it on.



Last time I checked iraqi civilians hadnt done anything to the insurgents...

Too bad you do not share the same view for Iraqi Civilans when they are being killed by the Coalition Forces by Bombings, "Frienldy Fire", all sorts of Road Block Accidents etc.

Again, who has Started this War?

The Insurgents?



American?
Can you even read my profile?
I am british!
Not american get that through your skull!
I am not in this with anyone!

I KNOW You are NOT an American.

I was meaing You, British, and your Fellow Americans.

Is that OK, with You?



No because the cowards in iraq killed another 3 of my countrymen.
The british are trying to right past wrongs, and only looking out to defend themselves.
If positions reversed we would see british civilian casualties much higher.

Thank your PM Tony for this 3 Dead Countrymen.

He Decided that Britain MUST help the USA in the ILLEGAL Invasion of Iraq.

Thats why you share common fate with the Americans - because of your Greedy PM.

Be Angry at HIM!



I am sorry you dont understand geography considering britain and the US are an ocean apart...

Oceans Apart, but still very Close in your two Goverments Interests, such as:

- Oil

- Money

- Power

- Greed



That is true BUT it doesnt justify any of the cowardly actions by the iraqi insurgents.

I call Cowardly Actions when you fly in your Airplane and Drop bombs from safe heights and without anybody opposing you - possibly missing the Target and Hitting Civilan part of the City.

That is Cowardly.



No its easy to fight, but we cant because we believe in morals, something the insurgents seem to easily forget like many terrorist orginisations.

Morals?



You mean Morals like the Soldiers in Guantanamo and Abu Gharib Have?



Yeah thats a great exscuse , going to use that one when your judged by your god for supporting murderers, rapists and torturers?

My God?

Sir, how do you know which God I Bow to?

How do you even know I am a Religious Person?

You are very quick in labelling me, Sir - not very good for You.

And if you support Bush and Blair regime you are also supporting Murderes, Rapists and Torturers.

I guess the Demonization of Muslim People is Working Very Well back on the Island...




posted on Jul, 22 2005 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
OK - Let me Research for you then:

Allawi: This is the Start of Civil War


Yeah lets take the word of a terrorist...who helped kill 100 civilians.



Civil War in Iraq?


Ok now its saying that the "government" is non existance even though the country voted and guess what, they do have a state, unless your telling me the country is run by anarchanism or comunism?


Iraq: A Descent into a Civil War?

I didnt know that killing policemen was part of a civil war....


OK?

Not in the slightest.



My Friend, there are LOTS of Insurgents in Iraq, enought to make an Army.

My friend?
Any one who supports women and children killers is not a friend of mine.
Yet again your going away from the question...



Cities are a little bit Complicated because of two Reasons:

1.They are Full of US and Coalition Forces

I didnt know that evey city in iraq had a co-alition garrasion in it.


2. They are Harder to Control and Harder to draw lines in.

That makes no diffrence.



Did you READ at all the Links I provided about the Election?

You CANT Export Democracy and Impose it!

Its not McDonals Restaurant damnit!

Am I saying it was democratic?
No I said it was an election, you can say its bloody fixed or even say the US has installed a neo-nazi government but frankly, every says that about that EVERY election.



What Decades ago?

Guantanamo Bay Prison Camp Delta Ring a Bell?

Air CIA Ring a Bell - where CIA Kidnaps Foreign Citizens without informing the Goverment of the Country that this Citizens are from?

And USA NEVER Admited the Facts behind the Iran-Contra Affairs. Nicaragua brought them to UN Court but USA NEVER Admited them!

So I take it when they arrested those soldiers commiting the crimes they where "haveing a laugh"?

The US has admitted many acts, mabye not all but many, I am not the US so I will not defend it but I will pass my damm opinion.




No?

Are you 100% Sure about that?

Well considering the government, the military, the troopers, the officers, the sailors , the airmen , the marines are all saying no then yeah.



USA has sponsored This kind and Much Worse Tactics in the Past - remember Cambodia?

So because they sponser things that means they support the tactics?
If thats so then all the people supporting HAMMAS now support thier terror tactics.



Now who has MADE them to use such tactics and techniques?

Oh so its now about who "made" them use those tacitcs?


Occupation creates Resistance of all Forms and Kinds.
[/qoute]
So you'd prefer long term genocide instead of short term occupation?


I do not Approve of the Illegal Invasion of Iraq, because it Created even MORE Terror and even more Instability in the Middle Eeastern Region.

A) its legal.
B) The war didnt cause more terror, the religios leaders done that.


I do not support any WARS or any FIGHTING.

Really?
So you dont support men takeing out sadam but support terrorists?

[quote[
But when you Invade a Foreign Country (ILLEGALY!), expect Resistance.

Yeah we expect ressistance not genocide.


Of all Kind.

"Bring it on!" He Said - and they are Bringing it on.

Did the civilians say that?

No they(terrorists) are bringing it to people who didnt say that but hey never mind one persons as good as another isnt that how they think?



Too bad you do not share the same view for Iraqi Civilans when they are being killed by the Coalition Forces by Bombings, "Frienldy Fire", all sorts of Road Block Accidents etc.

Dont I?
I didnt know you knew me...


Again, who has Started this War?

Thank you for agreeing its a guirilla war...


The Insurgents?

Yeah.



I KNOW You are NOT an American.

Ok lets see your next statement....


I was meaing You, British, and your Fellow Americans.

That means I am american....I am not american...



Is that OK, with You?

No.



Thank your PM Tony for this 3 Dead Countrymen.

Oh so the fact sadamm started killing civilians means he is inocent?
So that means the person who pulled the trigger is free from blame?
No they are all responseable.


He Decided that Britain MUST help the USA in the ILLEGAL Invasion of Iraq.

Actually he was given bad info BUT hey ignore that fact...


Thats why you share common fate with the Americans - because of your Greedy PM.

I didnt know the US had a PM?
To yanks,
Did you yanks change while I was away???


Be Angry at HIM!

No I will be angry at the coward behind the trigger.




Oceans Apart, but still very Close in your two Goverments Interests, such as:

Close meaning what?
We are allies?
Yeah, so are iran and china but that doesnt mean they will band together and invade isreal.


- Oil

No thanks mate we have the north sea.


- Money

We have a nice load of money thanks.
And this war is costing us more than we get out of it.


- Power

Over what?
Yeah our massive 3 carrier navy!
Wow! Be afraid france !


- Greed

I didnt know I was greedy?
Hmmm ah well since you know me better than I do I'll take your word for it.



I call Cowardly Actions when you fly in your Airplane and Drop bombs from safe heights and without anybody opposing you - possibly missing the Target and Hitting Civilan part of the City.

That is Cowardly.

I didnt know iraqi air defences where turned off during the attack?



Morals?



You mean Morals like the Soldiers in Guantanamo and Abu Gharib Have?

No I mean like the morals soldiers like tim collins have who was accused of war crimes but was proven inocent.
Guess what ?
He helped rebuild a school and returned a daughter to her father after being seperated in an attack, might I add this daughter was somewhere in iraq not in the local area of the father.



My God?

Everyone has something they believe in


Sir, how do you know which God I Bow to?

I never said you bowed to a god..


How do you even know I am a Religious Person?

Its a feeling.


You are very quick in labelling me, Sir - not very good for You.

Not labeling, more like thinking.


And if you support Bush and Blair regime you are also supporting Murderes, Rapists and Torturers.

Funy I dont support ethier.


I guess the Demonization of Muslim People is Working Very Well back on the Island...

It actually which I dont like but hey ignore my posts about it in other threads its ok, I know you love me anyway..
.



posted on Jul, 22 2005 @ 07:07 PM
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My thought is we missed our opportunity in 1979 when our embassy was seized by the Iranian government. We should have given them 24 hrs to release our people or the bomber would fly to Tehran as well as Iran's oil producing areas and start bombing. Had we done that the history of the USA and middle east (although Iran is not in the middle east and is not arabic but Aryan) would have been much different.

We should announce that the next bomb that goes off will be answered by a nuclear attack on a major Islamic city. The first target would be Mecca followed by Medina, Kut, and Hom (the latter two in Iran). We make it clear that it is the duty of Muslims everywhere to kill Bin Laden and his followers.

Extreme? Some would say Nagasaki and Hiroshima were extreme. The point is that it worked.



posted on Jul, 22 2005 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
There is NO logic to suicide terrorism, period, and that is according to Islam.

Disappointed is not even a word I care to express.
Research is your friend, so is a bit of logical objectiveness.


Well, according to Souljah's article, suicide terrorism has more to do with an idealogy rather than religion, so don't you think it would make sense that it doesn't make sense to Islam?


The central fact is that overwhelmingly suicide-terrorist attacks are not driven by religion as much as they are by a clear strategic objective: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland.


Let's also mention that the Islamic sect of Osama is Wahabbism, which is a fairly recent branching (20th century I believe) and is centered around an idealogy.

And I don't think you are anyone to lecture on logical objectivity at least in this case, for it obvious you have succumbed to the same stereotypes specifically mentioned in the introductory post.

[edit on 22-7-2005 by Jamuhn]



posted on Jul, 22 2005 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Yeah lets take the word of a terrorist...who helped kill 100 civilians.

OK - lets take the word of USArmy that helped to kill 8000 Innocent Civilians. Would that Help?



Ok now its saying that the "government" is non existance even though the country voted and guess what, they do have a state, unless your telling me the country is run by anarchanism or comunism?

Yes, they have a Puppet Goverment, which was not Elected by Democratic elections and a Country on a Brink of Civil War.



I didnt know that killing policemen was part of a civil war....

Yes it is. Many policeman dead in Yugoslav Civil War.



My friend?
Any one who supports women and children killers is not a friend of mine.

And when Women, Children Die because of Bombs Dropped or when Deformed Children are born because of all of the Radiation in Iraq - then its called COLLATERAL DAMAGE.

Is that OK with You then? Thats Fine?



Am I saying it was democratic?
No I said it was an election, you can say its bloody fixed or even say the US has installed a neo-nazi government but frankly, every says that about that EVERY election.

No they dont - thats a Poor Excuse of an Argument.



So I take it when they arrested those soldiers commiting the crimes they where "haveing a laugh"?

The Soldiers look like they are Enjoying and taking pictures while smiling and holding Thumbs Up - yes it looks to me like they were having a Laugh.



Well considering the government, the military, the troopers, the officers, the sailors , the airmen , the marines are all saying no then yeah.

Dont forget that they are ALL in the service of Her Majesty - and in the service of the Goverment, so Ofcourse they have to "go with the Official Story" or they loose their Job or maybe something far more Precious to them....



So because they sponser things that means they support the tactics?
If thats so then all the people supporting HAMMAS now support thier terror tactics.

USA and the CIA have basicly Created Internatioanl Terrorism - everybody else just followed in their Footsteps.



So you'd prefer long term genocide instead of short term occupation?

GENOCIDE?

Sir, You really dont know the meaning of this Word.

For Genocide you should talk to people that Fought the War in Bosnia.



A) its legal.

No its NOT.



B) The war didnt cause more terror, the religios leaders done that.

No they DIDNT.

Bush's War on Terror CREATEST Terror.

I have Covered that in a Previous thread of mine - want Links again, or it wont help you anyway?



Really?
So you dont support men takeing out sadam but support terrorists?

Men taking out Saddam CREATED these Terrorists - why is that so Hard for all of You to Understand?



Yeah we expect ressistance not genocide.

For Genocide I suggest the following Reading:

Bosnian Genocide



No they(terrorists) are bringing it to people who didnt say that but hey never mind one persons as good as another isnt that how they think?

Did the People ask for this kind of Liberation in the first Place?



That means I am american....I am not american...

OK, OK - You are NOT American - but you do Support American Goverments War on Terror?



Oh so the fact sadamm started killing civilians means he is inocent?
So that means the person who pulled the trigger is free from blame?
No they are all responseable.

Who said Saddam was Innocent?

And I belive that the Person who has Ordered the People with Guns and Fingers on the Triggers to go into WAR are held responsible.



Actually he was given bad info BUT hey ignore that fact...

And because of this "Bad Info" today we have 25.000 Innocent Dead Iraqi Civilians - or MORE.

Jolly Good Show, Lads!



I didnt know the US had a PM?
To yanks,
Did you yanks change while I was away???

HAHA, Really Funny - now YOU are Avoiding the Question.



No I will be angry at the coward behind the trigger.

FIGHT THE RICH NOT THEIR WARS!



We are allies?
Yeah, so are iran and china but that doesnt mean they will band together and invade isreal.

Maybe they will - just as YOU and YOUR Allies did in Invading Iraq.

Are you Happy now that the Terrorism has Spread from Iraq to your Home?

Do you think that War on Terror is having the Desired Effect now?

OR is it CREATING TERROR?



No thanks mate we have the north sea.

Not For Long, MATE - I belive that Your Precious North Sea Oil Reserves are running out...



We have a nice load of money thanks.
And this war is costing us more than we get out of it.

Costing Who?

The People of GB?

Who do you think gets this Money?

You Guessed it - the MILITARY CONTRACTORS!



Over what?
Yeah our massive 3 carrier navy!
Wow! Be afraid france !

Power Meaning - who Stands in Line and who sits in his Armchair.



I didnt know I was greedy?
Hmmm ah well since you know me better than I do I'll take your word for it.

I didnt mean You Personally - but your Goverment, that has allied with the Greedy Americans and their Rat Race.



He helped rebuild a school and returned a daughter to her father after being seperated in an attack, might I add this daughter was somewhere in iraq not in the local area of the father.

There are too few guys like him then in this War.




And if you support Bush and Blair regime you are also supporting Murderes, Rapists and Torturers.

Funy I dont support ethier.

Who do You Support then?

Looks like to me that you support them with your Statements.



It actually which I dont like but hey ignore my posts about it in other threads its ok, I know you love me anyway..
.


Sure I Love You - if I didnt I wouldnt take time to Answer your Gigantic Post.




posted on Jul, 22 2005 @ 07:34 PM
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We should announce that the next bomb that goes off will be answered by a nuclear attack on a major Islamic city. The first target would be Mecca followed by Medina, Kut, and Hom (the latter two in Iran).


That would simply inform the rest of the planet that we are indiscriminately murderous lunatics who need to be taken out of the picture ASAP.

I think people consistently misunderstand the intentions of Bin Laden and his strategy, and the purpose of terrorism in general. Bin Laden is not really fighting a war with the West - the attacks on the West are intended largely to incite precisely the kinds of indiscriminate responses you describe, in order to draw more support within the Muslim world. Destroy Mecca and you radicalize hundreds of millions of Muslims in a single stroke. Bin Laden knows that. All terrorists are provocateurs.

Because that is his real goal, not victory against the West, which if nothing else is not acheivable in the near term. Instead, he is fighting a war against the forces of modernity and moderation within Islam itself. Bin Laden wants to create a new Caliphate, under his leadership, united in hatred of a common enemy. We should not be handing him victory on a silver platter.

[edit on 7/22/05 by xmotex]



posted on Jul, 22 2005 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
OK - lets take the word of USArmy that helped to kill 8000 Innocent Civilians. Would that Help?

Yet again the US army doesnt concern me.



Yes, they have a Puppet Goverment, which was not Elected by Democratic elections and a Country on a Brink of Civil War.

Woah there , your telling me you need to be democratic to have an election?



Yes it is. Many policeman dead in Yugoslav Civil War.

I meant I didnt know policemen where the enemy in a civil war.



And when Women, Children Die because of Bombs Dropped or when Deformed Children are born because of all of the Radiation in Iraq - then its called COLLATERAL DAMAGE.

Is that OK with You then? Thats Fine?

Is civilian casualties caused by bombs being dropped fine?
No.
Is radiation posining caused by DE rounds being fine?
No.

Do I think they will happen by acciedent when mad men hide in amougnst civilians, yes.



No they dont - thats a Poor Excuse of an Argument.

Afriad they do , and its a perfectly sound argument.



The Soldiers look like they are Enjoying and taking pictures while smiling and holding Thumbs Up - yes it looks to me like they were having a Laugh.

Yeah but where the US army when they where prosocuting these soldiers looking like they where haveing a laugh?
No I dont think so.



Dont forget that they are ALL in the service of Her Majesty - and in the service of the Goverment, so Ofcourse they have to "go with the Official Story" or they loose their Job or maybe something far more Precious to them....

Oh really?
Then you have a narrow mind of the armed forces.



USA and the CIA have basicly Created Internatioanl Terrorism - everybody else just followed in their Footsteps.

Yet again going off topic....



GENOCIDE?

Sir, You really dont know the meaning of this Word.

For Genocide you should talk to people that Fought the War in Bosnia.

You mean the genocide that america and the UK heped stop?
Or atleast TRIED to stop?
Yeah we dont know what genocide is.
Considering UK troops where on the ground first.



No its NOT.

Acording to the laws laid down by our countries and the UN then yes it is.



No they DIDNT.

Bush's War on Terror CREATEST Terror.

I have Covered that in a Previous thread of mine - want Links again, or it wont help you anyway?

Tell me that religios leaders did not stir up hate after or during the war.
Tell me they did not say to fighter to attack the co-alition.


Men taking out Saddam CREATED these Terrorists - why is that so Hard for all of You to Understand?

Realy I didnt know GB snr got back into the white house.
And I didnt know Sir Alec Douglas got back into number 10.



For Genocide I suggest the following Reading:

Bosnian Genocide



No mabye you should read this...

[qoute]
Define: Genocide.

Deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

Sounds familiar?




Did the People ask for this kind of Liberation in the first Place?

Some did..



OK, OK - You are NOT American - but you do Support American Goverments War on Terror?

Yet again I am not american, why are you asking me about the american forign policy?
It doesnt matter to me! Its the UK one that does.



Who said Saddam was Innocent?

And I belive that the Person who has Ordered the People with Guns and Fingers on the Triggers to go into WAR are held responsible.

You are trying to portray the UK and US forces in iraq as evil, and on the same level of sadamm.

Oh and If I did then I would be angry at the religios leadrs.



And because of this "Bad Info" today we have 25.000 Innocent Dead Iraqi Civilians - or MORE.

Jolly Good Show, Lads!

You can thank UN weapon inspectors and paranioa.
Bad info kills both sides.



HAHA, Really Funny - now YOU are Avoiding the Question.

No actually I am not I am pointing out a fault.




FIGHT THE RICH NOT THEIR WARS!

So now its about how much money we have?



Maybe they will - just as YOU and YOUR Allies did in Invading Iraq.

France didnt invade iraq, they are an ally.
Germany didnt, they are an ally.
Denmark didnt, they are an ally. (A strong one 2)



Are you Happy now that the Terrorism has Spread from Iraq to your Home?

Terrorism has been in my country for longer than iraq has been a state.


Do you think that War on Terror is having the Desired Effect now?

The war on terror has stopped quite a bit of terror but made some as well.


OR is it CREATING TERROR?

Its both creating and destroying.



Not For Long, MATE - I belive that Your Precious North Sea Oil Reserves are running out...

Same with the entire worlds.
Mabye you have not noticed...



Costing Who?

The UK.


The People of GB?

Yeah


Who do you think gets this Money?

Many people, the MOD, etc.


You Guessed it - the MILITARY CONTRACTORS!

And servicemen and the people of iraq.



Power Meaning - who Stands in Line and who sits in his Armchair.

Then guess what, we do both.



I didnt mean You Personally - but your Goverment, that has allied with the Greedy Americans and their Rat Race.

Really?
And you'd prefer we ally with?



There are too few guys like him then in this War.

He is but one..
There are over 100,000 more men and women like him.



Who do You Support then?

Looks like to me that you support them with your Statements.

I support the troops, I dont thinnk we should have gone in, NOW .
But before the war started I did.
The INFO I was given was diffrent from the stuff now.



Sure I Love You - if I didnt I wouldnt take time to Answer your Gigantic Post.


Not that big, I've seen one a page long.



posted on Jul, 22 2005 @ 09:15 PM
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Souljah, just my two cents.

Go to this site, read and digest what it says about rhetorical tactics and truth suppression, and each time you recognize it - highlight the tactic.

home.datawest.net...

Keep your arguments brief, supported by fact from multiple sources and limit the amount of drift allowed from the original subject.

Your contention that bombing of civilians is not the work of guerilla forces has merit, as bombing of civilians (vertically or horizontally) is a counterinsurgency tactic, it does nothing for the 'home team'. Counter insurgents hope to scare away support for the guerillas and occasionally hit an important member of the local resistance with this 'scattergun' approach. There is also the divide and conquer aspect, where their plants attempt to finger different domestic forces as targeting each other, thereby touching off internal conflicts.

There are many who understand the tactics evidenced by our forces in Iraq are already migrating home and the significant moral drift and outright attack on everything 'American' encapsulated in our new enabling laws (Patriot 1 & 2, Homeland Security) on the home front is troubling to everyone. And in case you wonder, I'm a 50's style Conservative, not a 00's style fascist.



posted on Jul, 23 2005 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Yet again the US army doesnt concern me.

They Should - they are your Allies in this War, and Your will share the same Fate.



Woah there , your telling me you need to be democratic to have an election?

Sure Helps if you are Having DEMOCRATIC Elections.



I meant I didnt know policemen where the enemy in a civil war.

If you are the "Wrong Color" no Uniform is going to Protect You.



Do I think they will happen by acciedent when mad men hide in amougnst civilians, yes.

Oh, any a Friggin Computer Cant be Wrong and Miss a Target?

Or a Human Error?

Or yes ofcourse - the Terrorists have Hidden themselves among the Civilan Population Again?



Yeah but where the US army when they where prosocuting these soldiers looking like they where haveing a laugh?
No I dont think so.

Dont matter to me much - because this Soldiers were Only FOLLOWING Orders, ordered by somebody Higher in the Place of Power then them.

And THEY Wont ever get Punished for Nothing!



Then you have a narrow mind of the armed forces.

Perhaps.



You mean the genocide that america and the UK heped stop?
Or atleast TRIED to stop?
Yeah we dont know what genocide is.
Considering UK troops where on the ground first.

Thank You Very Much for Watching and Not Doing anything for Years!



Tell me they did not say to fighter to attack the co-alition.

Every Action has a RE-Action - thats the Fundamental Law of Physics.

[qoute]
Deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

Very.

Have you Ever FELT it - or just Read about it?

According to this Definition the Systematic Destriction of Racial, Political or Cultural Group the Isreali Violence Against Palestine classifies as a GENOCIDE, Right?



Yet again I am not american, why are you asking me about the american forign policy?
It doesnt matter to me! Its the UK one that does.

And How far is the UK Foreign Policy from the USA Foreign Policy?

So far Blair and Bush have become Much More then Golf Buddies.



You are trying to portray the UK and US forces in iraq as evil, and on the same level of sadamm.

Saddam Invaded Kuwait - and the Invasion was Repelled by the Coalition Forces.

US and UK Forces Invaded Iraw - was the Invasion Repelled?



You can thank UN weapon inspectors and paranioa.
Bad info kills both sides.

So thats it - Bad Info?

Thats what you are going to say to all the Families of the Dead US and UK Soldiers, not to mention the People who really pay the MAIN Price in this War The Iraqi Families?



So now its about how much money we have?

No - its about How Much More Money you will GET out of this War.

I dont mean You Personally - but the Elite Few that Planned this for a Long Time.



Terrorism has been in my country for longer than iraq has been a state.

So Are you Happy that its Back?



The war on terror has stopped quite a bit of terror but made some as well.

Stopped?

You mean like the INCREASE in the Bomb Attacks Lately?

Like Egypt Yesteraday?

You know what the Responsible Abdullah Azzam Brigade Said:

They Said that the Attacks are the Answer to Crimes of International Forces of Evil, which are Spilling the Blood of Muslim People in Iraq, Afganistan and Chechniya.



Its both creating and destroying.

You are Right Here:

- Its Creating Terrorism

- and Destroying Inncent Lives



And servicemen and the people of iraq.

Do You think they will Get the BILLIONS of Dollars that the Military Contractors Will?



Really?
And you'd prefer we ally with?

Not with WarMongers and WarProfiteers which Seek Conflict to Assure Business for Deades.



I support the troops, I dont thinnk we should have gone in, NOW .
But before the war started I did.
The INFO I was given was diffrent from the stuff now.

So you admit that you were Deceived by the Propaganda Machine of the Neo-Con Empire?



posted on Jul, 23 2005 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by awshucksme
Souljah, just my two cents.

Go to this site, read and digest what it says about rhetorical tactics and truth suppression, and each time you recognize it - highlight the tactic.

home.datawest.net...

Thank You Very Much for the Provided Link

and for some Great Advice!




posted on Jul, 23 2005 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
They Should - they are your Allies in this War, and Your will share the same Fate.

Please do not dictate what I should or should not care about.



Sure Helps if you are Having DEMOCRATIC Elections.

Helps what?
You can have any type of election you want.



If you are the "Wrong Color" no Uniform is going to Protect You.

I didnt know armies had went from DPM's to colours.



Oh, any a Friggin Computer Cant be Wrong and Miss a Target?

Or a Human Error?

Or yes ofcourse - the Terrorists have Hidden themselves among the Civilan Population Again?

Well your the one that said before they are fighitng in cities, guess what cities are full of ?
People...



Dont matter to me much - because this Soldiers were Only FOLLOWING Orders, ordered by somebody Higher in the Place of Power then them.

And THEY Wont ever get Punished for Nothing!

One thing, if they wanted to conduct actual innterogations using force there are much easier ways than the ones used.
And much more effective ones.



Perhaps.

There is no perhaps about it.



Thank You Very Much for Watching and Not Doing anything for Years!

It was not our war, why should we fight another mans war?
YOU are the one who says we should not fight another mans war...



Every Action has a RE-Action - thats the Fundamental Law of Physics.

Yes that is true, but there are other factors.
[qoute]
Very.

Have you Ever FELT it - or just Read about it?

No I have never felt it.
That is going off topic.


According to this Definition the Systematic Destriction of Racial, Political or Cultural Group the Isreali Violence Against Palestine classifies as a GENOCIDE, Right?

This is going off topic, stay on topic.



And How far is the UK Foreign Policy from the USA Foreign Policy?

So far Blair and Bush have become Much More then Golf Buddies.

How far?
We dont support an invasion of iran, we have differed quite a bit on forign policy IF you checked.




Saddam Invaded Kuwait - and the Invasion was Repelled by the Coalition Forces.

By a UN task force actually.
[qutoe]
US and UK Forces Invaded Iraw - was the Invasion Repelled?

No and it wont be.



So thats it - Bad Info?

Thats what you are going to say to all the Families of the Dead US and UK Soldiers, not to mention the People who really pay the MAIN Price in this War The Iraqi Families?

Yeah I am, and I do.



No - its about How Much More Money you will GET out of this War.

You mean like the cost of lives?
You mean like millions this war is costing?


I dont mean You Personally - but the Elite Few that Planned this for a Long Time.

So now the UK is controlled by an elite few?



So Are you Happy that its Back?

It never left.



Stopped?

You mean like the INCREASE in the Bomb Attacks Lately?

Like Egypt Yesteraday?

You know what the Responsible Abdullah Azzam Brigade Said:

They Said that the Attacks are the Answer to Crimes of International Forces of Evil, which are Spilling the Blood of Muslim People in Iraq, Afganistan and Chechniya.

The answer?
More like the final solution.



You are Right Here:

- Its Creating Terrorism

- and Destroying Inncent Lives

Thtas your opinion, IMO what you have said is more true about terriosm.



Do You think they will Get the BILLIONS of Dollars that the Military Contractors Will?

No, they will get the same ammount overall IMO.



Not with WarMongers and WarProfiteers which Seek Conflict to Assure Business for Deades.

Then we can only be allies with iceland and sweeden. Yeah great plan.




So you admit that you were Deceived by the Propaganda Machine of the Neo-Con Empire?

I was misinformed.
Not decieved.
What they stated was part truth part lie.


[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Jul, 23 2005 @ 11:41 AM
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there IS logic to these suicide bombings...

we (westerners) HATE these tactics because we are not used to them...

when in reality, killing civilians during war, has been occuring throughout history...

it is VERY normal...

but, the western governments have said that killing yourself in order to kill civilians is STUPID and WRONG...

in reality it is NOT...

for the "bad guys", it is a GREAT way to die...

we must fight fear with fact...

there is logic for everything...

just look for it...





posted on Jul, 23 2005 @ 12:51 PM
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Souljah, i dont understand you, you condone murder of children. It's a fact the insurgents kill more iraqis civilians than anyone else yet you support them? Also most of these terrorists are not iraqis trying to free their homeland or some other romantic notion you come up with to justify murder. Most of them are syrians and other terrorists that slipped across the border looking to kill someone. you blatantly call our government terrorists when you have no proof of this, other than your belief that the war in iraq is wrong. Well i got two words for you, Strategic Bases. Thats right souljah, we are there to install bases and conduct operations in the mid east.



posted on Jul, 23 2005 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Well i got two words for you, Strategic Bases. Thats right souljah, we are there to install bases and conduct operations in the mid east.




This to me Looks like an Occupation - and I see ALOT of Bases and Operations in the Future.

Guess what the RE-Action is to these Two Words of Yours

One Word:

RESISTANCE.

[edit on 23/7/05 by Souljah]



posted on Jul, 23 2005 @ 01:01 PM
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Double Post.

[edit on 23/7/05 by Souljah]



posted on Jul, 23 2005 @ 01:05 PM
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you can resist if you wish, you may even cause enough problems to get us to leave iraq, but before we do we will make that victory so bitter-sweet you'll wished they just surrendered.



posted on Jul, 23 2005 @ 02:16 PM
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If an Austrian living in Germany attacks Poland...we should withdraw from England??



posted on Jul, 23 2005 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Interesting, No?

So if we follow the Equasion in the title, we come to this Result:

NO Occupation = No Suicide Terrorism

Again, proof that so-called War on Terror CREATES Terrorism, and does not Eliminate it.

Invading Foreign Countries will NOT Decrease International Terrorism but will INCREASE it.

Why is that So Hard to Understand?



It's hard for you to understand because you don't understand the history, and the fact that it's about culture not occupation. Jihad against the United States was declared years before 911 and signed openly by international groups. Failure to recognize that war was declared against the United States, has turned our own citizens and U.K. citizens against their very governement. Political scandal only fuels the fire, much like Vietnam.

Iraq is a foreign ground where resources are taken and jihad waged. This takes logistics from terror groups and forces them into a theater (bodies and bullets). The Jihad groups are currently seeking a breakout with bombings internationally. The Jihad groups have figured out what we have done, committted them to an Area of Operation, or bottleneck, and now they are going back to sapping targets, which will increase in scope. You don't tell the world, "Hey, we have to kill the Muslim factions." That doesn't go over so well, especially when you have 1 billion Muslims on the planet. Instead you make up BS for a pretext to war. The real agenda has never wavered, just as President Bush has said. Why do you think he is so firm, assertive, and confident? He knows we are at war with Muslims and we need to take the oil power away from Islam, but you never, NEVER, openly say this,

We are at war.

Below is the declaration of war, or text of Fatwah, signed by terror groups committed to striking the U.S. I suggest you read it. WAR was declared against the U.S. years before 911. This has been signed and actively pursued. FBI graphs of money laundering and terror attacks prove the results of this Fatwah.

Text of Fatwah Urging Jihad Against Americans
Published in Al-Quds al-'Arabi on Febuary 23, 1998

Statement signed by Sheikh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin; Ayman al-Zawahiri, leader of the Jihad Group in Egypt; Abu- Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, a leader of the Islamic Group; Sheikh Mir Hamzah, secretary of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Pakistan; and Fazlul Rahman, leader of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh

Praise be to God, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said "I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but God is worshipped, God who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders." The Arabian Peninsula has never--since God made it flat, created its desert, and encircled it with seas--been stormed by any forces like the crusader armies now spreading in it like locusts, consuming its riches and destroying its plantations. All this is happening at a time when nations are attacking Muslims like people fighting over a plate of food. In the light of the grave situation and the lack of support, we and you are obliged to discuss current events, and we should all agree on how to settle the matter.

No one argues today about three facts that are known to everyone; we will list them, in order to remind everyone:

First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.

If some people have formerly debated the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it.

The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, still they are helpless. Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, in excess of 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation.

So now they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors.

Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there.

The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel's survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula.

All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. This was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in "Al- Mughni," Imam al-Kisa'i in "Al- Bada'i," al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and the shaykh of al-Islam in his books, where he said "As for the militant struggle, it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a duty as agreed. Nothing is more sacred than belief except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life."


On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims
The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies--civilians and military--is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God."

This is in addition to the words of Almighty God "And why should ye not fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated and oppressed--women and children, whose cry is 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will help!'"

We -- with God's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson.

Almighty God said "O ye who believe, give your response to God and His Apostle, when He calleth you to that which will give you life. And know that God cometh between a man and his heart, and that it is He to whom ye shall all be gathered."

Almighty God also says "O ye who believe, what is the matter with you, that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of God, ye cling so heavily to the earth! Do ye prefer the life of this world to the hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For God hath power over all things."


Almighty God also says "So lose no heart, nor fall into despair. For ye must gain mastery if ye are true in faith."



posted on Jul, 23 2005 @ 04:56 PM
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I do agree with you Souljah that invading countries will not decrease terrorism. This is a flawed New Amercian Century tactic. Only SF operational units should've been used. That's where the oil comes in. Kill two birds with one stone. Level the playing field with oil resources for the next generation, while at the same time killing as many "extremists" as possible. In my view this is attack without thinking, without planning.

No one thought that Iraq would be the end of terrorism. It's a strategic divergence to win the war, but in mathematics divergence is failure.



posted on Jul, 25 2005 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Please do not dictate what I should or should not care about.

I Apologize.



You can have any type of election you want.

Yes but if you call them D E M O C R A T I C Elections - and they are not, why do you call them Democratic anyway?




I didnt know armies had went from DPM's to colours.

Whats DPM?



One thing, if they wanted to conduct actual innterogations using force there are much easier ways than the ones used.
And much more effective ones.

Hmmm - are you Protecting your Allies - Americans and their Torture Camps?



It was not our war, why should we fight another mans war?
YOU are the one who says we should not fight another mans war...

Is War in Iraq "Your War" then?

And why is "War in Sudan" Not?



How far?
We dont support an invasion of iran, we have differed quite a bit on forign policy IF you checked.

Well, watching the World Today and what is going on in Your Country, I think that Blar and his Buddy Bush will be going Togather Forever...




US and UK Forces Invaded Iraw - was the Invasion Repelled?

No and it wont be.

As Long as the Oil Flows I guess it Wont...



You mean like the cost of lives?
You mean like millions this war is costing?

Costing Who?

The WarProfiteers?

They Get Money in Wars and Wars dont Cost them Anything.



So now the UK is controlled by an elite few?

Not Just UK - the Entire Planet is.



Then we can only be allies with iceland and sweeden. Yeah great plan.

You dont like Sweden - you dont like Snow?



I was misinformed.
Not decieved.
What they stated was part truth part lie.

Well if you sleep better - you were Misinformed.

But the Truth is that We Were ALL Deceived - and still ARE!



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