Originally posted by KhieuSamphan

Originally posted by AgentSmith
The BBC found the 'evidence' that points to Al Quade independantly on an Islamic website.

And that proves the existence of said group, in your eyes, does it?

I believe Al-Qaeda exists because one of my closest friends went to a Muslim teaching camp in Afghanistan, pre-Afghan war, only to leave when they started teaching people how to use guns and explosives. The who camp was arrested when the US went into Afghanistan with some of the people that he met there still in Camp X-ray.

Thats enough proof for me.

Originally posted by dgtempe
With all due respect- What happened was terrible. Sad, very sad. That being said, Al Quaeda, IMHO had nothing at all to do with this- This is more preparation for terror, a furthering if you will, of a Bush and Blair agenda.
Human life means very little when you got tons up your sleeve.

No disrespect here at all. Just truth.

It is sad that this is they way people need to steal money.

I personally believe that Bloomberg and Pataki were responsible for the London attacks. I think they planted them to go off before the Olympic bid decision yesterday but they were a day late going off.
This due to jealousy of London getting the 2012 Olympics bid instead of New York.

How's that for conspiracy?

Really though. I don't believe in AQ either.

No one can stop or prevent natural disasters but to compare natural disaster deaths to terrorism is crazy. And if you were smart you would know who kills civilians in Iraq, it surely isn't the US. To say that they died because the US came in is absurd, your saying since the US is in Iraq the terrorists have no choice but to place car bombs in front of restaurants, and that in its self is very much absurd.

Well did they have bombs in iraq before us came? Nope. They had tyrannical leader and that´s about it. So does usa, n-korea&russia.
Because few foolish men there now lies thousands of dead. And how did it help with anything? Leave the iraq and let them build their own place, i´m sure they don´t mind at all.
-aape

Originally posted by aape
Well did they have bombs in iraq before us came? Nope. They had tyrannical leader and that´s about it. So does usa, n-korea&russia.
Because few foolish men there now lies thousands of dead. And how did it help with anything? Leave the iraq and let them build their own place, i´m sure they don´t mind at all.
-aape

Yeah, they'll love having another group of homicidal maniacs killing at will anyone they doesnt fit into their ideals.

i'm always disturbed when i see someone post an interesting theory only to have ten or more people come out of the woodwork scolding the poster to shut up. unfortunately, it seems to happen on most (if not all) posts. worst of all, many of the scolders are moderators.

of course there are ridiculous conspiracy theories out there that are hardly worth our consideration. but i haven't seen very many on ats. besides, i've discovered that many theories that sound stupid at first turn out to reveal deep truths about our world upon further investigation. there is nothing ridiculous about considering that an organization besides al-qaeda was involved in the vicious bombings we saw today. neither is it disrespectful to the victims' families to have a discussion about who is truly responsible for their deaths.

have any of the dissenters watched the bbc video mentioned in the original post? it doesn't prove that al-qaeda doesn't exist, but it calls into serious question the way that western governments (e.g. bush&blair) have characterized the organization. it's easy to blame any act of violence on islamic terrorists given our current zeitgeist. sadly, it's much harder to see through the mania created by fearmongers and actually figure out what is really happening in our world.


[edit on 7-7-2005 by polytron]

no need to worry. those of us who are paying attention will know who is responsible before too long. we only need to wait and see who benefits from this tragedy.

originaly posted by Netchicken---Super Moderator

I deleted this thread initially and posted to the member the following.
In normal situations I wouldn't have even bothered with it, infact I may have read the links and participated. However in the current situation what is just debate becomes reality. I was sickened that they events are being twisted to meet an agenda.
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I don't believe the luxury of debate over the events serves any purpose until there are some concrete facts in.
To push your agenda, with no proof at all, against the stated admission of AQ, and muslim extremists is the same sort of blind hatred that charactorises extremists groups world wide

now first off you deleated a thread because it did not match your beliefs. nice this is a CONSPIRICY discussion site, as such there will always be differing oppinion about things, sometimes many views from many dirrections. you should not remove something just because you don't LIKE what it said. as far as i'm concerned it sounds like you may have abused your super mod powers. i am ashamed that you would as i have respected most of what you have had to say dureing my time here. mind you i might not have agreed but that is no matter you still had my respect.

now in a second post (the second paragraph), you do have a valid point. that being that ANYTHING so far is just speculation. good point and true. but pushing agenda? that is a bit too far. one can say that the very fact that al-quaida was behind this is an agenda, to state a belief that it wasn't is just an opposeing view, nothing more. as for agendas everyone has their own agenda in many things. that agenda may be ossamma did it, it wasn't ossama, or even just an agenda of trying to find truth. agenda is NOT nessissarily trying to push crap down peoples throtes.

thinking about it i have to say that one thing about this situation that almost screams at me is the automatic laying of blaim. now 15 years ago who would have been the first suspect in ANY bombing, shootings and the like occuring in england? the ira would have been suspect number one. so why instant suspecting that it was al-quada in this one? admittedly we haven't heard from the ira for a while but that means nothing. i guess today ONLY musslem extreemists are at fault for anything.

what is needed is EVIDANCE unfortunately there is little respect for those government appendages that perform these investigations, as such many questions will ultimately be raised about any conclusion. now there has been talk about info on web-sites pointing to a spacific group. now how reliable is that? first and formost as seen with child abuse problems ariseing from people met over the net, you realy DON"T KNOW WHO IS WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE, or that a spacific site is indeed who they claim to be. for all you know i am sandy renaldo, gerald ford or anyone else. you realy don't know who i am. next we all know just how secure the internet isn't so even if one believes that a web site is run by those who they claim to be, does not mean that they put someything on it. we have hackers aplenty many working for governments even.so we realy can't trust any evidance from such a source. let's be honest (note: not that i would), i could claim to be from a terrorist organization and that we did this evil act. that does not mean however that i had ANYTHING to do with it. so that is not real evidance either.

in fact the only REAL evidance will be thibgs like the bombs themselves. but how many here ultimately believe that they will tell us the ultimate truth and not push their own AGENDA by putting the blaim where THEY want it? i also agree with some who are suspicious about the nice timeing of this. now sure it COULD be that a branch of al-quida that did this, EQUILY it could be SELF-INFLICTED to further their goals, it COULD even be a play by someone else to PLACE THE BLAIM on al-quaida. WE JUST DON"T KNOW. in this regaurd it is identical to the 9-11 attacks. also like 9-11 i am sure that the debate will go on and on, with no real accepted proof by any side. for all we know it could have even been done by say an extreemist christian group in order to discreadit the musslem belief. (i don't believe that but it IS a possibility)

so are we about to go attack some other country? iran perhapse in revenge for this? is it as stated to help bolster dropping support for the war in iraq? is it even done in revenge for what is going on in iraq. WE JUST DON"T KNOW and i doubt that we will even hear about the truth of it. so i guess it's time for the endless debate to start up over this most recent of "terrorist" attacks.

let the debate begine

It was an inside job, blatently. Look at Australian Prime Minister John Howards response and read between the lines.

- The bombs were NOT designed for mass-casualty or destruction, they were designed to create confusion and chaos. If they were for casualties, they would of happened during Live Aid or the Olympic celebrations and the bombs would of been fueled and designed to spread a fire rather than being a wave of force to only kill those near by. This makes containment a lot easier.
- They can't be related to the Olympics because otherwise France would of also had an attack planned aswell unless the people in charge of this bombing knew London was getting the Olympics in advance. Any reference by media to the Olympics is purely playing on Patriotism or masking inside knowledge of London winning the Olympics otherwise there's no way the bombing could be in relation.
- Central London is known for it's many security cameras so they should have something quick on those.
- The army, police, emergency response teams have all said over and over again how they had been trained for EXACTLY this type of attack and they were very quick in their response but with many Terrorist raids in London over the last 12 months, how did this attack get under the radar?
- Since early 2004 it's been said that a new attack would happen in June/July 2005 on America or London and this would be a catalyst for war in Iran.
- G8 has been affected, Blair and Bush have gone home (Blair says he will return). Do governments gain more by keeping money in war rather than poverty than Islamic Terrorists?

Here's Australia's Prime Ministers reponse:

"Prime Minister John Howard says the terrorist attacks in London will further strengthen Australia's resolve to continue in the war against terrorism.

He said the attacks were a reminder of the indiscriminate nature of terrorism.

"I want to make it very plain that this kind of attack will not alter the attitude of the government of Australia towards terrorism and towards the commitments we have with our American, British and other friends to Iraq to Afghanistan," he told ABC radio.

"People must understand that a country like Australia will not be bullied or intimidated and the people who believe we can are wrong.

"It (the attacks) will in fact steel the determination of people who recognise the threat that terrorism poses to democratic societies, to go on with the fight against terrorism."


We're being told not to jumpt to conclusions on a bloody conspirarcy website, yet straight off the bat, the governments are chanting 'WAR' and 'reminding' us how Terrorism has to be defeated.

As of right now there's been 38 confirmed deaths.
This WAS a reminder and the emergency response had been well trained for exactly this type of event. A posting on a website is not a confirmation from a group which doesn't exsist.




[edit on 7-7-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]

I wonder what the President of Belgium will have to say on the London attacks. It could be quite interesting.

Well, in a few days here I'll be in Iraq, and ya'll can call me the "Great Satan" for actually helping out with reality, and not just sit behind my computer in my comfortable middle-class American home criticizing the world. Seriously, get out and get into the sun a little - it might help.

As for me, I'll be out there dealing with the real threat. The threat of terrorism, the threat of hatred, and the threat of fundamentalists. As for ya'll here, rest assured that there are those of us willing to make the sacrifices necessary so that ya'll can sit back and criticize.

In conclusion, "You're Welcome".

1st Lieutenant David M. O'Connor, USMC. aka wD

Oh, and don't worry, if I get any R&R I'll be sure to upload pictures so that ya'll can actually see the reality of what is going on. Thank you and goodnight.

well good luck with the bad fight wd. i hope that you and your unit make it out in one piece.

however i doubt that you will have any possitive effect in stopping terrorisim. but hey you might just help produce more of them. that ought to make the powers that be happy. it will give them more reason to expand the war of agression that they have launched against those that they see as in their way.

as to this new attack on the uk. i realy do wonder about who it was but i have my doubts that it was the new boggi men al-quada. they are a nice scape goat to lay the blaim on though. nothing like "prooveing" that they are right. it ought to drum up the falling support for this travesty of a war they got started.

I find it tough to believe that the security cameras didn't get something suspicous on them. I am not going to make accusations as it just happened today and no ones really knows much about who did it.