And also there was a video of Bin laden after 9/11 that he stated that he did not plot an attack on the US and that it was done by some one else and that, US.

There something wroung look when the attacks were progress why wasnt the airforce alrted when they lost contact with the jumbo's, it all ways happens in other counteries when Air communication los and the aircraft is heading a differnt area the Air force is always alreted.

[edit on 11-7-2005 by Interseptor]

Unlike some people i do not believe there is such thing as "luxury of debate" not under circumstances will i sincerally agree to that (not even in China).
On the other hand i see where your coming from. Extremists do exist and will kill innocent people. But this has been so much at the expence of peace loving people like myself that we often feel there is some kind of conspiracy going on. It would make sence as what the terrorists do is so counter productive to their cause, their religion and generally sanity in general that we look to next best logical cause of terrorism and thats the goverment. Goverments have staged terrorists acts, and this is almost certainly the case with some of the Russia verses Chenya attacks.
So by all means point facts and theorise like these out (but as they are).

Equally our brand of political people must be careful not to jump the gun. Like a court of law, or a leagle system with slander as an offence you can not accuse people of things without evidence. And lets be clear you are accusing the victums (many of which are dead) of being victumes of the goverment.
So if your going to accuse the British-U.S goverment of staging terrorism you need to make clear the evidence. Really it should be enough to just state the evidence you have. And if thats in the forms of questions thats ok too as we all have stuff to learn, espically on whats really going on.

But you cannot say "when are we all going to realise that this isn't terrorism at all but our own goverment". If you do that you will come across to people who arn't like you as a nutcase at the best of times (even if your very good and intelligent). This is espically so when the event is so new in peoples minds. In addition they will (quite logically) see you as incentitive and politically malnipulative of events. And until you can pose something that isn't a fact, as just that this will be rightfully so. A theory is a theory, a question is a question but a statement of fact without evidence is close to a lie and always politically counter productive to good politics its therefore wrong-foolish no matter how you look at it.

He who orders the Execution NEVER drops the Blade.

" Extremists do exist and will kill innocent people."

Why?

Can't we just say that all 'suicide bombers' could have been unaware they were even carrying a bomb? Or that they were drugged, hypnotized, brainwashed by NON-Arabs (because, lets face it, its whitey thats been intensely studying that stuff the last 200 years)...

Or we could say that many of the bombings are remote detonated, meaning they are more sophisticated than we are supposed to think...

Hmm... So that people are afraid of each other?Naw...

Originally posted by Interseptor
And also there was a video of Bin laden after 9/11 that he stated that he did not plot an attack on the US and that it was done by some one else and that, US.

didnt he talk about how he planned the attacks with one of his wheelchair buddies? he's like laughing and smiling and his budding praising Allah for the attacks thinking Allah allowed it?

AQ just likes blowing things up in the name of Allah. If they get to take out a few people in the name of the anti-Zionist conspiracy, good for them.

That makes alot of sense. THese guys are evil people that deserve bad things to happen to them. I just find it humorous that all you liberal kooks think its all an inside job. Your practically calling Bin Laden a humanitarian!! DO any of you actually read what your type, or does it just come out of your head onto the screen with no after-thought?

Originally posted by akilles
He who orders the Execution NEVER drops the Blade.

Not so.

Originally posted by akilles
Can't we just say that all 'suicide bombers' could have been unaware they were even carrying a bomb? Or that they were drugged, hypnotized, brainwashed by NON-Arabs (because, lets face it, its whitey thats been intensely studying that stuff the last 200 years)....

You're not familiar with Palestine are you? LOL

Originally posted by akilles
Or we could say that many of the bombings are remote detonated, meaning they are more sophisticated than we are supposed to think.

It cracks me up to see articles about how "suicide bombers" don't exist or that these bombers are Israeli suicide cohorts, and that HAMAS is an Israeli front - the BS goes on and on. The interviewed families of the martyrs are fake blah, blah, blah. How stupid can you get? That's the real question. How much conspiracy BS will you accept that takes you beyond reality and how basic things work? It comes down to experience, those that don't have it drool over foolishness, and the things you don't understand.

Take some C4 with detcord or dynamite with a simple fuse and walaaa! Sophisticated? Hardly.

Originally posted by akilles
Hmm... So that people are afraid of each other?Naw...

No, for revenge and for a common goal. People don't fear each other, unless you're paranoid or mentally challenged. There has always existed war. Tactics change with technology and varies by the culture who embraces warfare.

Getting back to the original topic of this thread, I finally finished watching the third and final film, and as I mentioned before, I was very impressed with the entire series. These films have a lot to offer in terms of a historical perspective on some of the extremist terrorist groups, the people and philosophies behind them, and the parallels between them and the United States heads of government.

After watching them, my opinion is this - that Al Qaeda does indeed exist. However, it is how they were formed that remains in question. I feel Majic also said it well by saying:

Some people claim that Al Qaeda doesn't exist at all, but that's ridiculous in light of all that has happened. Rather, a more pertinent way to express that doubt is not whether Al Qaeda exists or not, but who is really behind it.

To say that Al Qaeda didn't exist until the Bush Administration wanted to prosecute Bin Ladin in the same way the FBI would prosecute a mafia boss (i.e., "this guy didn't actually commit the crime, but he directed it), I think, corresponds to the message in the film. It appears that Bin Ladin and the other associated terrorist groups have accepted being part of this group, even if they didn't officially create it or name it themselves, and that would make the organization officially exist, in my opinion.

The real take home message of the film, I feel, was a concept that I first started to really 'get' after seeing Michael Moore's "Bowling For Columbine" film - that is, the government and the media are fear mongerers. They love to spread fear around - what better way to control the masses?

After getting that message, and feeling there was a lot of truth to it, I quit watching a lot of main stream media, and instead have been living in ignorant bliss. There is no reason I need to be inundated each and every day with so much negativity and the constant subliminal message of "you're gonna die, you're gonna die, you're gonna die". I am gonna die. Someday. Hopefully not today because I enjoy living and I have a really great family that loves me.

I also got a chance to see "Fahrenheit 911" last night for the first time. I realize there is a certain spin on things in that film, and even though I personally really like Michael Moore and most of his messages, I did find a couple of things in that film that I could question or refute. Politics is politics, no matter what side you come out on.

But, all in all, between seeing Moore's film, and the BBC series linked in the starting post, I think it's pretty hard to walk away from it without feeling that there are some questionable U.S.-Middle East relationships. In addition, the philosophies of the neo-conservatives and islamist extremists seem to be polar opposites that are affecting each other by some kind of strange magnetic pull they have with one another based on parallel events. That's the only way I can explain it. See the movies if you don't understand.

Sorry to be an arse, but..... (and forgive me if this has been pointed out, i haven't read the entire thread) the title is a little wrong:

It reads:

Stop blaming Al-Qaeda on the London Bombings!

Where it should read, to be grammatically correct:

Stop blaming the London Bombings on Al-Qaeda!

The first staement reads that the London Bombings are responsible for Al Qaeda....not the other way around....

Would not be suprised if Muslims were used by some British group to settle two purposes for the price of one. One obvious hatred for the west and two to gain the political movement to impose public acceptence and agreement on ID cards and other Orwellian society nightmare like having scanners in every station and impose restrictions of basic freedoms.
If not it worked out well then. We are becoming more imprisoned by technology than ever. Some say its a government conspiracy. This is just one view and am open to all opinions but hope we each get fare share to speak ones mind.

Orwellian nightmare, or other futuristic fiction's dazzling our eyes from the mind melting TV. I do believe we will have a one world government, but not by the doctrine's currently preached. This thread is literally about breaking down the notion that Al Quaida is the monstrosity, billowing it's hate upon the masses through burning shrapnel, by ripping off the blanket of terrorism to expose the naked truth - that the government or ELITE controls everything.

Besides the terrible plots and whimsical delusions of Pinky and the Brain taking over the world, have you considered for a moment that events take place as a natural flow of events? If I wish to sink Mr. Ship in X ocean, I must apply my Limpet mine securely to one's hull. I must first evaluate Mr. Ship, don my gear, swim to me' target in the dark abyss, mind you without Murphy biting my arse like a shark in heat, and do all of this based on weather, and happenstance. Such is the world and all in it. Man may plan, but God laughs.

Common sense is a rare commodity it seems. The master plan of ruling the world under a satanic banner may be the master plot, but as all things, must occur in a natural flow of events. Saying that George Bush or the Israeli's are placing bombs on the trade center or hypnotizing suicide bombers to scare the masses - all towards the goal of the master plan; this is what the conversation always breaks down to. You see there must be a purpose, there must be a reason why a man or institution would wish to do these things. There must be a goal. I think President Bush would rather be vacationing catching fish.

On the table the goal is that the end of the world is coming, the anti-christ is coming, and this is why George Bush and his cohorts flew dummy planes into the trade center, and placed bombs in London against their own people. This is a mindset. This is what it all boils down to - a goal. There must be a goal.

This is the very reason, the very logic; those who believe such things feed the fear of society. When you have no solid foundation then you are tossed about by the wind. Yes, the Bohemian Grove is a bunch of wealthy, idol worshipping men, hell bent on, having fun? Maybe they like drinking and eating and chanting, and pissing on themselves. Maybe they sacrifice real people? Understand this, regardless, a one world government can only come about by domination, by war. American citizens may be feared into accepting the loss of freedoms, but we won't be feared into worshipping the devil in the culture we live in.

The whole point of the mass spasm of who's behinnd this and that - is to prove Bush is not a Christian, but a deep, dark, master of deception, intent on forming the world into one government, and portray as his father has that Americans will pay allegiance to the European Union.

To dominate another country you must war and you must control resources. The hard cold truth. Will every American just accept implants over a few years time when they know it's for worshipping some fein? Surely you jest. The prophecies speak of another time, one that you and I do not live in. Society as we know it is not going to end by 2012. Your Mayan interpretations and your biblical theories are just that - interpretations and theories, based on your failed allegorization of scripture, and listening to those who have done the same.

Now for a dose of reality. Iraq was taken, why? Resources. Do you realize there are over 300,000 oil wells in Texas, but only about 2500 in Iraq, where oil reserves are proven to be as great as Saudi Arabia. Do the math. Who is going to be the largest consumer of oil in the next couple decades? China and the United States. We have known this for decades and America plans on hedging the Chinese by controlling their energy reserves, or at least destabilizing them. Oil runs economy. It's the commodity that wars are fought over and is why the Japanese attacked pearl harbor, and it's why were in Iraq and Afghanistan.

He who controls the energy has the power to move nations. He who has the energy and the most advanced army has the power to control the nations of the world. Old creeds - new technology. Keep in mind war will be fought by a natural flow of events. To take Iran you must first conqueor them. Only when one power controls all the economies and nations can a chip be implanted or an anti-christ come to control all things. What you have now is pissed off suicide bombers, Bohemian robe wearers, and plenty of pond scum willing to utilize both.

Ok, will stop blaming the London bombings on Al Quaida just as long as you don't blame it on the SAS or CIA one world government, robe wearing bohemians. Not everyone wears robes and not everyone prays five times to the east everyday. Our failure is assuming cultures can co-exist without war.

I've now come to the conclusion that these new so called "attacks" done by these "terrorists" that every media channel keeps writing about is starting to become a joke. Nobody is for sure is these terrorists are! Why not? This is absolutely absurd. I just on CNN.com that:

"Police said evidence left behind in Thursday's attempted bombings has given them what may be a "significant breakthrough" in their investigation."

and:

news conference in central London: "Clearly the intention must have been to kill."

OH REALLY? Well, guess what? I don't think these terrorists who I assume are qualified enough and smart enough to place highly sophisticated bombs in stations, trains, buses would intentionally leave their work a failure IF their intention was to kill. This whole scare attack is so illogical. Do you really want me to believe that some extremist who spent weeks or even months to plan this "attack" will leave EVIDENCE of an operation that would completely FAIL? I don't think it was a group of extremists, I think these were bombs that were placed long before 7/7 and it's just now that we're starting to see what this plan is all about. You can scratch out Al-Qaeda and extremists from that plan. Again I say...look a little closer who the real perpetrators are and who benefits.

[edit on 21-7-2005 by eudaimonia]

Well I feel the biggest crime lord in the world must only be Israel.

For it has killed millions of pelestines and cliamed and lied that the orginal inhabitance is a terrorist race but in fact it is not, and the guilt and murders are Israeli Gov, I have brought this topic up because lots of anger comes from the middle east as Israel cowardly attacks inocents with air srikes, middle eastern people have among there society extremist people growing.

Israel has been murdering pelestines for more the 50 years and stiring up an uprising in the middle eastrn countries, and also pelestines arnt all muslim , are minorities living amoung them as Jews, Christians and they do not agree in joining Israel, in fact during the occupation of pelestine most of the arab orginal Jews left Israel and now live amoung syrian, labanies, egyptians, jordians and pelestines.

Why because Israel is darwinistic state that believes it can kick out the orginals call them terrorist and make them the jews of germany in 1939-1945.

And this why in middle east there is always been anti american slogens, I mean before the war on Iraq, why because Israel uses its friends as lams, now the american people have to pay for what evil they do, in the middle east, before 9/11 if you remember there was alot of tentions in middle east and Israel and after that the attacks on WWC came upon the american people, the people found guilty were mostly from the middle east.

If you have C4 and a det/ cord who came up with the idea of blowing yourself up?

Must have been a guy low on confidence, because it doesn't make sense to me.

If you are going to kill for your religion, why not use a gun on innocent civilians, surely you would wound more people?

But no, if your intention is to scare people into a "Anything can happen, at any time, any place, thats the world we live in" mentality, you use suicide bombers.

Why? Because they are completely irrational, and that scares people.

But then people try to rationalize the 'suicide bombers' intentions, to feel safe. We see a fine example on this very board.

it wasnt al-qaeda, was it

indeed these guys have more ties to MI5

[edit on 16-5-2006 by AdamJ]