It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by defcon5
Wait here a second you guys show me one place where I have said that either of these thing IS Satanism or Luciferianism!!!!!
I believe that I have said just the opposite. I can however understand where people get that misconception better now then I did. It (Hermeticism, of which masonry is partly based on) is in fact a Pagan religion, and most Christians are going to lump that all into devil worship.
I will tell you what I am sick of, which is every mason upon reading the S&L word seeing red, going ape, and trying to call anyone that says it a ranting troll, rather then reading what it is they said…
I was trying to get to the valid point of the relationship between these four things:
1) Hermeticism
2) OTO
3) Law of Thelema
4) Masonry
No ranting or anything else involved.
[edit on 6/18/2005 by defcon5]
Originally posted by The Axeman
Originally posted by Toelint
A visit to BOTH websites left me feeling VERY uneasy. Hey, I'm NOT joking! This is the VERY FIRST TIME reading about a secret society gave me the spooks.
May I ask what it is exactly that made you feel uneasy?
I have been looking into OTO, but admittedly I haven't looked much further than their main website yet. I read the ritual for the Gnostic Mass, and I didn't see anything that really made me uneasy. I have to say that this is the kind of stuff that would make fundamentalist Christians load their britches though.
I am interested just what freaked you out so much?
Just Me74: I wouldn't call them wanna-be's, but from what I have seen and read they do closely resemble Golden Dawn Orders and such.
Why are people so freaked out by occultism? If it's not for you, fine, but is there really any reason to get all bent out of shape?
Actually I was going to start a thread in a similar vein, but I think instead I'll see where this one goes. Hopefully we can keep the trolling down to a dull roar and get some good info exchange going on.
[edit on 6/16/05 by The Axeman]
Originally posted by Toelint
Well, I'd suggest going through the last link I posted, then click on the Salt Lake City link...then click on the picture link...then look at the "company picnic" style photos they have posted. Why is there a girl draped across a casket with a smile on her face? Why is there ANOTHER photo of a naked man in a casket, holding his girlfriend's hand. (No they're not dead, they just LIKE caskets) Is this a death cult or something? I'd really like to know!
Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
The O.T.O. was Originally a GNOSTIC Order - a sort of High Level FreeMasonry.
Well, I'd suggest going through the last link I posted, then click on the Salt Lake City link...then click on the picture link...then look at the "company picnic" style photos they have posted. Why is there a girl draped across a casket with a smile on her face? Why is there ANOTHER photo of a naked man in a casket, holding his girlfriend's hand. (Now, I realize they're not dead, they just LIKE caskets) Is this a death cult or something? I'd really like to know!
Originally posted by The Axeman
Really now?
Funny how that article has nothing to do with OTO either, at least from what I can tell...
[edit on 6/17/05 by The Axeman]
Originally posted by sebatwerk
Originally posted by dh
Accusations of trolling aimed at ideas you dont agree with are troll in themselves, as are pipsqueak accusations
Actually, no. You are either a bad troll, or a good parrot. You believe the first things you come across on conspiracy websites such as Freemasonrywatch.com and post them here, pretending that they are your own thoughts and ideas, like a good parrot should.
Here is a Guardian editorial comment that applies to you
The lower levels were put in concentration camps by the Third Reich simply so they could not reveal the occult dominance of the regime
OK, whatever you say! How this applies to me, I'm not sure. According to you and your ilk, I am a "high-ranking" mason, am I not? I control the "rank-and-file" masons, and brainwash them into doing my bidding, correct? :bnghd:
Even so, ALL Freemasons were put in concentration camps. There is no such thing as "lower-levels" in Freemasonry. All masons are equal members in the fraternity. There is no supreme hirearchy, rank, authority or suboordination in Freemasonry.
So much for your argument.
Originally posted by dh
I would however maintain that the knowledge offered by ritual advance, which is presumably moderated by the conduct and potential of the initiate, creates a compartmentalised hierarchy
I've no doubt there are hierarchies within hierarchies and your particular lodge may be immurred in the lower rank of hierarchies, thinking yourselves doing a damn good job for humanity
However, be the ritual ever so lowly, the ritual serves a purpose - the colours, the settings, the words, the actions, the images - these are all aimed at letting certain energies in, while keeping others out
The control is not in the hands of the initiate but rather of those a step or two or more above him. His circle of protection is given and not self-made.
The key point - in the hierarchical organisation the person on one level is controlled de facto by the person on the next if ritual is the key to the knowledge and experience of the next...
Originally posted by Mayet
Well said DH. You are correct in saying the rituals are controlled by those above and also when talking about the protection not being self made.
[edit on 18-6-2005 by Mayet]
Originally posted by Mayet
once again the book of the law says it well. The lamb has been sent to fool the elite.
Club and group mentality I do have to love it....not....Yes there can be parallels bought between the oto GD and nazi's oh and freemasonry.... they are all regimes of belief that allow no individuality.
Originally posted by dh
Not the link I intended to post though not a million miles from the subject
Rather this
www.guardian.co.uk...
Originally posted by dh
While Crowley may have some had connections into the Thule society, his recorded intonations of rite give us an almost exact voice-double of Churchill
Originally posted by Cug
Originally posted by Toelint
Well, I'd suggest going through the last link I posted, then click on the Salt Lake City link...then click on the picture link...then look at the "company picnic" style photos they have posted. Why is there a girl draped across a casket with a smile on her face? Why is there ANOTHER photo of a naked man in a casket, holding his girlfriend's hand. (No they're not dead, they just LIKE caskets) Is this a death cult or something? I'd really like to know!
Toelint,
The photos your looking at are from the Rite of Sol. The Rite of Sol is one of a series of 7 plays by Aleister Crowley’ that make up the work The Rites of Eleusis.
It's no more weird than a guy talking to a skull in Macbeth. Unless you think Shakespeare is a death cult
[edit on 6/18/2005 by Cug]
Originally posted by Mayet
Sebat do you ever question freemasonry? Do you ever wonder inside even a little bit by all these people who point out valid arguements against freemasonry?
Originally posted by dh
Maybe even many of the the higher ranking Masons are cultivated mushrooms (Kept in the dark etc etc)
Originally posted by Toelint
Okay, for those interested, here's a quote from the AdAstra Lodge website in Denver, CO. concerning what this group believes.
"Thelema
The religion known as Thelema was founded in 1904 by the English poet and mystic Aleister Crowley (1875 - 1947). Those who follow the path of Thelema are called Thelemites. Thelema emphasizes individualism and the uniqueness of each person's Will. As a result, it is very difficult to make blanket statements about its nature or (still more so) the natures of its adherents. Even the label "religion" fits Thelema awkwardly in some contexts — it is in other senses a philosophy and a way of life, while also overlapping with the set of practices and symbols commonly called "Magick"."
Okay, so they DO think they're wizards (witches, warlocks, etc, etc, etc...) and I pretty sure they're NOT a death cult...