Ordo Templii Orientis: Who the heck are these guys??

Originally posted by jimjamjerry


I hear what you're saying but for me the passage is a lot like a bible quote. It's open to interpretation. You're interpretation seems all warm and fuzzy, but because the statement is so ambiguous, it could easily be used to justify horrible actions.

Yet it isn't my personal interpretation, but Crowley's. He wrote many volumes on the subject, and considered the primary purpose of Magick to be a self-discovery, of unveiling the True Will. All Theurgic practices lead to this goal.

Since is Liber AL is, whether for good or for bad, is Crowley's legacy, then we must look to Crowley for its interpretation and meaning.

I concede that many have, and will continue in the future, to take "Do what thou wilt" as a license to do anything that their lower wills want to do. Crowley understood this too, and again addressed it many times in his writings. He pointed out (correctly, IMO) that anyone who does so is really a slave to the lower will, and thus cannot be a "Thelemite", i.e., one who has defeated the lower will, became free, and knows and follows the True Will.

Hey, i just ripped off 10 billion dollars from a third world country through the IMF. But its for their own good. they needed t. Tough love, and besides, DO WHAT THOU WILT. it would be very hard for an individual to pin down the influence of a statement like that. not only would it depend on individual interpretation, but it would be relatively easy to influence an individuals opinion in a group setting.

In his Commentaries on Liber AL, Crowley discusses the basis of what could be called a "conflict of wills". If everyone follws the True Will, they do not clash with each other, since the nature of True Will is Love. The analogy used by Crowley was the planets orbiting the sun. Nature has put them on this course, the balance and bring harmony into the solar system, and do not collide with each other.

Now, obviously, many anti-Crowleyans point to some of the "darker" passages of Liber AL, and claim that even though AL makes this very good point about Will, it nevertheless does a complete 180 when condoning a "might is right" attitude over the weaker.

But again, we come to interpretation. Crowley is clear in his commentaries that the "weak" who are commanded to be "trampled upon" are not people, but thoughts. Controlling thought is of preeminence in both Magick and Yoga, and Liber AL sets a method for each of those Disciplines.

Why would we think Masonry is any different than that. Sure there's good christians, but there's also pedophile priests. Why leave something like that so ambitious and open to interpretation when the weight of history clearly demonstrates the folly of that?

On this I would have to agree with Brother Albert Pike, a profound student of Masonic symbolism. It was Pike's belief that the symbols both reveal and conceal meanings. The degree lectures explain the symbols to the Candidate, so he does not have to fret in interpreting them himself. Some of meanings are pretty obvious, for example, the Mason's Level symbolizes the equality of all men in the eyes of God and under the law. The Compass, which describes circles, becomes a symbol for man's spiritual nature because circles are used geometrically to coordinate points in the sky; the Masons Square then becomes a symbol for man's physical nature because the square is applied to physical brick work, and so on.

Thus the Candidate is left with plenty of hints as to how to group the symbols and interpret the whole himself, if he only consider what was told him in the degrees, and what is written in the great books of Masonic philosophy.

reply to post by dh


Personally been in both OTO and GD. Prefered GD.

reply to post by MikiC


I apologize for resurrecting such an old post, but I am extremely curious about the OTO, and so I beg your forgiveness. I am a Regular Master Mason, and I am interested in continuing my journey towards Light by exploring the Occult practices of orders such as Ordo Templi Orientis. I have begun this journey by doing countless hours of internet research, performing research at different Masonic libraries, and by reading these forums as well as such books as the Kybalion, etc. I was hoping that someone here could provide me with some advice and guidance on this path, and while I would prefer to receive this advice from a Brother Master Mason (so as to avoid breaking my oaths to my Blue Lodge), I would be extremely and humbly grateful to receive the advice of anyone who has experience with such Esoteric Orders/Mystery Schools as: OTO, the Golden Dawn, AMORC/Rosicrucian Orders, etc. Your help and advice would be much appreciated, and I personally would prefer if you could contact me privately on ATS rather than by a forum post, but if you feel that this information will bring Light to all, then both are alright . Thank you, and countless blessings!

S & F,

Dokuja