It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by cleasterwood
INCORRECT! Plato did in fact mention Atlantis in other writings, but it was Laws, not Republic. Structured as a conversation between an Athenian, a Cretan, and Clinias (Spartan)
ATHENIAN: Then what view do you both take on the ancient legends? Is there any truth to them?
CLINIAS: What legends are you talking about?
ATHENIAN: Those which recount recurring destructions of humanity by floods, epidemics, or from a variety of causes, when only a few survivors are left behind.
CLINIAS: Oh, those stories are entirely credible to anyone.
ATHENIAN: Well, then let us discuss one of those mass exterminations, the one that was brought about by the Great Deluge.
HERE PLATO REITERATES HIS INSISTNECE THAT THE ACCOUNT IS TRUE AND MAKES CLEAR REFERENCE TO SOLON.
ATHENIAN: Poets, you singing as they do under divine guidance, are among the inspired to do so, with help of their Graces and Muses, often hit upon true historical fact.
MOTIVATION MENTIONED FIRST IN TIMAEUS AND LATER IN LAWS:
The story continues in a similar vein and discusses the 'dark age' when civilization slipped back into ignorance and chaos following the destruction. Plato also hints that the society was advanced when he wrote of the scientific discoveries lost during destruction. Along with technology, Plato says important minerals were also lost.
Originally posted by cleasterwood
The Egyptian name for Atlantis was Netero or "Sacred Island".
Originally posted by cleasterwood Sea Peoples related to the Victory Temple of West Thebes built by Ramses III mentions that one captive told Ramses that the reason they invaded was because their homeland sank beneath the waves. The inscription reads: "The head of their cities has gone under the waves. The great heat of Sekhmet mingled with their heat, so that their bones burned in the midst of their bodies. The shooting-star was terrible in its pursuit of them... a mighty torch hurling flame from the heavens to search out their sould, to devastate their root. The Kel and the Meshwesh of the sea, they were made as those that exist not. The land of Meshwesh was destroyed all at once."
The Medinet Habu Tablets clarify some of the events. Some of the Sea Peoples, as prisoners, declare: "Our islands are uprooted and carried away. The might of Nun [ocean] broke forth and fell in great wave on our towns and villages. The head of their cities has gone under the sea; their land is no more" (inscriptions 37, 46, 80, 102 & 109). This is very much like the geologist's descriptions examined earlier for northern Europe. Ramses III declared on the walls of Medinet Habu that "the whole delta of the Nile is flooded by the sea." Later he states, as does the archeological evidence, that there were vast fires in the Near East: "Libya became a desert; a terrible torch hurled flame from heaven to destroy their souls and lay waste their land [as] their bones burn and roast within their limbs [and] the Nile was dried up and the land fell victim to drought" (Tablet 105). Again, like Homer, the fires are said to be the result of a source from outside of the Earth.
Originally posted by cleasterwood
The right answers are in front of us but the 9,000 BCE date is incorrect. IF you use solar years (365 days) you get a figure of 9,000 BCE But in lunar years, which is what the priests of Ancient Egypt used in recording history, you get a much more believable date nearer to the 900 BCE mark for the date of the last cataclysm. Also, important to mention, is that if you substitute aruoras or 'side' for stadia, the dimensions of Atlantis as described by Plato, you get a much more accurate and believable picture of what Atlantis really looked like.
Now..if you look at the old way the earth was before the plates moved it has what is now the bremuda triangle connecting Florida and the place that would be the Pyrinees mountains.
Atlantis is somewhere in the triangle near Bimini.
The Basque people if you trace their language connects to no other language on Earth.
Originally posted by menguard
Funny how ATLANTIS and ATLANTIC are so close in spelling, ATLANTIS OCEAN...ATLANTIC OCEAN.
The Atlanteans were familiar with the (Law Of One) then the closest known sounding language to"The Ancients" is spanish
Originally posted by menguard
No," The Ancients" I am referring to are a "interdimensional race" that had history with the Atlanteans.They told me the closest known sounding language is spanish that is closest to theirs.
Originally posted by cleasterwood
Just because Atlantis isn't mentioned by the name 'Atlantis', doesn't necessarily mean crap! References are littered throughout the world, although it's called something different.
Originally posted by cleasterwoodAs far as ancient Eygptian references there are plenty.
THE ATLANTIS ENCYCLOPEDIA by Frank Joseph... Also approved by Martin Gray, founder of sacredsites.com and National Geographic's Principle photographer for The Geography of Religion and Rober R. Hieronimus, PHD, Author and Radio Host, 21st Century Radio.com, America's Secret Destiny):
"Aalu-- Ancient Egyptian for "The Isle of Flame," descriptive of a large, volcanic island in the Distant West. It PHYSICALLY MATCHES PLATO'S ATLANTIS VIRTUALLY DETAIL FOR DETAIL: mountainous, with canals, luxuriant crops, a palatial city surrounded by great walls decorated with precious metals, etc. Aalu's earliest known reference appears in 'The Destruction of Mankind," a New Kingdom history (1299 BC) ] (here ya go, predates Plato!) discovered in the tomb of Seti-I, at Abydos.
Men issued forth from their hiding places in great fear, and when they beheld Ra departing from them they sorrowed because of the rebellious words which had been spoken against his majesty. Indeed they cried unto Ra, beseeching him to slay those of his enemies who remained. But Ra was borne through the darkness, and men followed him until he appeared again and shed light upon the earth. Then did his faithful subjects arm themselves with weapons, and they sallied forth against the enemies of the sun god and slaughtered them in battle.
Ra beheld that which his followers among men had done, and he was well pleased. He spake unto them saying: "Now is your sin forgiven. Slaughter atones for slaughter. Such is sacrifice and the purport thereof." When Ra had thus accepted in atonement for the sin of men the sacrifice of his enemies who desired to slay him, he spake unto the heavenly goddess Nut, saying:
"Henceforth my dwelling place must be in the heavens. No longer will I reign upon the earth."
So it happened, according to his divine will. The great god went oil his way through the realms which are above, and these he divided and set in order. He spake creating words, and called into existence the field of Aalu, and there he caused to assemble a multitude of beings which are beheld in heaven, even the stars, and these were born of Nut.
Originally posted by cleasterwoodHis city was the site of the Osireion, a subterranean monument to the Great Flood that destroyed a former age of greatness.
Originally posted by cleasterwoodOn the other side of the world, the Apache Indians of the American SW claim their ancestors arrived after a Great Flood destroyed their homeland, still remembered as "the Isle of Flames," in the Atlantic."
Originally posted by cleasterwood2.ATAKA- Described in the Harris Papyrus circa 1180 BC summarizing in detail Ramses III's accomplishments. After the "Sea People" were defeated he declares, "I sent out an exepidtion to the land of Ataka for the great foundries of copper which are in that place. Our transport ships were loaded. Having located the foundries loaded wiht metal, loaded as myriads upon our ships, they sailed back to Egypt, arriving safely."
Ataka appears to be an Egyptian linguistic inflection of the Atlantean holding, original name (not the At prefix that keeps popping up) for Michigan's Upper Peninsula, in North America, where they engaged in extensive copper mining. Plato describes the Atlanteans as preeminent miners of the world's highest grade copper. ... The great quantities of copper his expedition took from Ataka required transport ships sailing a great, hazardous distance (the returned 'safely'), while their 'color of gold" suggests Plato's gold-like orichalcum and Michigan's high grade copper. ONLY from the Upper Peninsula could Ramses have obtained such large amounts of exceptional copper.
The Sinaitic peninsula, the province of Mafkat or "Malachite," as it was called, had been in the possession of the Egyptians since the time of Zosir of the third dynasty, and it continued to be regarded as part of the Egyptian kingdom up to the age of the Ptolemies. The earliest of Egyptian rock-sculptures is engraved in the peninsula, and represents Snefru, the founder of the fourth dynasty, slaughtering the Beduin who inhabited it. Its possession was valued on account of its mines of copper and malachite. These were worked by the Egyptian kings with the help of convict labour. Garrisons were established to protect them and the roads which led to them, colonies of officials grew up at their side, and temples were built dedicated to the deities of Egypt. Even as late as the reign of Ramses III. the amount of minerals produced by the mines was enormous. They existed for the most part on the western side of the peninsula, opposite the Egyptian coast; but Ramses III. also opened copper mines in the land of 'Ataka further east, and the name of the goddess Hathor in hieroglyphics has been found by Dr. Friedmann on the shores of Midian.
Henriette Mertz tells it more plainly and lays culpability at the toes of the archaeological profession: "This incredible amount of copper has not been accounted for by American archaeologists ..... the sum total according to archaeological findings here in the States amounts to a mere handful of copper beads and trinkets.....float copper. Five hundred thousand tons of pure copper does not disintegrate into thin air. It cannot be sneezed away......it must be somewhere, and to date, it has not been located in the United States," and "99.9% is still to be accounted for" (Mertz 1976:18). Mertz concludes, of course, that the copper was disappeared by Old World Bronze Age metal mongers.
FACT: The figures are made up out of thin air and can be sneezed away. That's because no one has a means to measure any of these variables accurately or with any precision. All of these figures are built on ill-constructed estimates. Let's examine the variable "percentage of copper in the trap rock" as an example. Clearly, the actual percentage of copper in rock varies from none (plain old rock) to one hundred percent (Ontonagon Boulder). Additionally, while the course of copper in trap rock is somewhat predictable, the amount of copper isn't necessarily constant or even regular. Many failed mining concerns of the nineteenth century found out this fact of geology the hard way! The counts of copper pits, the sizes of pits, and the weight of removed trap are 1) either arbitrarily-chosen numbers, or 2) variable in reality; despite this they are used as constants in the algorithm. Drier and Du Temple used a constant for copper percentage (error) and then multiply it by an estimated number of pits (error inherent) of a constant size (error), counting some and extrapolating to unknown areas (another error). Because we know that pits are not randomly but systematically located, excavated and followed, it makes no sense to extend their probable locations to unknown areas unless one is willing to accomodate enormous errors. In these algorithms, error compounds error compounds error. The resultant sums are a statement of faith, not fact; the numerologists may as well be counting angels dancing on heads of pins.
Originally posted by cleasterwoodNow from AN EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPHIC DICTIONARY by E.A. Wallis Budge, a list of Egyptian words that could be related to the "Isle of Flames" and the world-wide flood.
Per-neser-- "House of Flame"; meh uiu- The flood that destroyed mankind; meh - submerged land"; mehit - mass of water; and an Egyptian reference, which is interesting, to bull sacrifice: Metun- place where the sacrificial bulls were hunted.
Originally posted by cleasterwoodFrom almost every culture on earth, Adena Indians of the American Midwest to the Zuni Indians of the Pueblos, there are references to a 'sunken homeland'. I'm not one to dismiss so many 'myths' as being simply that, because they are not. Every myth has some truth to it. I could name every culture if you really need me to Harte as well as a short description of their "homeland." But I don't have the time to dilly dally with the skeptics. All I can suggest is go out and get THE ATLANTIS ENCYCLOPEDIA and see for yourself just how many cultures make reference to a "sunken homeland" in the Atlantic Ocean.
Originally posted by Serum39
Something has occured to me that hasn't before....
Atlantis, an Island or Islands are claimed to have existed with an advanced civilization.... lets just go with that notion.
An Advanced civilization.... I repeat... An Advanced civilization.... now, can anyone find a reason as to why an Advanced civilization decided to esstentially "stay on their own Island" and not want to expand and explore the "new frontiers"? Is not human nature to look up at the stars, to look across the seas? To want to explore the horizons?
If they were truely advanced, then there is no doubt in my mind that they would expand their reaches...
Now with that said, lets assume they DID expand... where is the evidence of this advanced civilization in other places? MOre Importantly- where are the other legends and stories that can confirm what Plato had said?
Maybe I'm wrong here.... but I believe if they were so advanced they would have built a boat and left their mark/story else where no?
Now before there are cries of "well, th emayans didnt expand, the sumerians didnt expand..." Remember, we are suppossed to be talking about An Advanced civilization!!!!!
Perhaps we should define "advanced"
[edit on 5-8-2005 by Serum39]