OP/ED: Dead Reporters and Mass Graves - Jihad Respun?

"Whatever, I didn't think this thread was about WMD's.
If more people were like you and all it took was a suspect picture at best to believe in something, then I'm sure the US would have come up with a picture of WMD's to convince people like you. "

No, it's not about WMD's. It's about mass graves from a war which was justified on the flimsiest of evidence. A raison d'etre you so easily dismiss with a "whatever...."

You brought up the issue of credibility and I pointed out a severe lack of it from both sides. A suspect picture or a dodgy dossier not an issue make, but "people like me" like to keep an open mind and explore both sides of the issue.

By admitting that if the ability to convince people otherwise on the subject came so easily to the US they would do it, you have spoken volumes about your own values and the "values" of the country you so lovingly defend.

Wow, Syrian Sister is surely once more trying to sell her lies...now in ATSNN...

i really can't believe she thinks most people in these forums are that ignorant...and now she is telling one of our members, quite firmly if i may add, that he better be quiet?.... wow....

BTW, we are still waiting on the other posts for you to present evidence that the insurgency has won in Fallujah, the photos of the hordes of doves being sent by allah as fighters in the insurgency..., and photos of the armed angels being sent also by the Divine to drive fear into the coalition and battle on the side of the insurgents..... oh and i almost forgot, the hordes of black spiders fighting against the coalition also....

[edit on 24-5-2005 by Muaddib]

I am trying to sell lies? But it was not I who wrote the above article.

Obviously more and more people, are waking up to the truth. With me, or without me. And there is nothing you can do about it mauddib.

For those of you with an open mind.

Have a look at this article from the San Fransico chronicle.

www.sfgate.com.../chronicle/archive/2005/05/22/MNGQ2CSURU1.DTL

Mexico City -- Fernando Suarez del Solar feels a sense of urgency about the war in Iraq -- and not just because he lost his only son there two years ago.

It is his duty, he says, to warn young Latinos about the perils of joining the U.S. military and becoming, like his son, a "green card Marine," lured by promises of a college education, post-service career and fast-track citizenship.

You see while the resistance are fighting to expell the occupation from their homeland. The enemy fights for money.

no honour among thieves.

Your responses Syrian Sister....those are what i was addressing...

And about those mass graves, we saw three bodies, one of which seems to have been buried for more than a year.

Maybe one or two of those bodies are those of the Iraqis your insurgents have killed.


[edit on 24-5-2005 by Muaddib]

"has won in Fallujah, "

The article is on it's way don't you worry.

the photos of the hordes of doves being sent by allah as fighters in the insurgency..., and photos of the armed angels being sent also by the Divine to drive fear into the coalition and battle on the side of the insurgents..... oh and i almost forgot, the hordes of black spiders fighting against the coalition also....

I never promiced these things or claimed to even belive in them. DO you see the kind of character assasination you are trying to frame up against me. It's because it hurts to much the truth for you, so your attacking me. But i'm going to sit you down, and feed you your medicene anyway little boy, because it may hurt, but it's good for you.

Oh, here is a link about a mass grave of civilians, including women and children your insurgents killed.

Headless bodies found in mass graves
By Oliver Poole in Baghdad
(Filed: 10/03/2005)

A new wave of horror swept across Iraq yesterday after police discovered 41 headless or bullet-scarred corpses at two separate mass graves.

At one of the sites 26 bodies in civilian clothes were found, shot at close range in the head and chest, near the Syrian border. A further 15 decapitated bodies, three of them women and two children, were discovered at an abandoned military base south of Baghdad.

A senior Iraqi police officer, speaking on condition of anonymity, said he believed that insurgents, not criminals, were responsible for the beheadings as "if you are a criminal, removing heads is not an easy way to kill your victims".

Insurgents have frequently dumped large numbers of bodies in public places as a warning to others. The victims are usually police, soldiers or Iraqis working with the US military.

Excerpted from.
www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2005/03/10/wirq10.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/03/10/ixnewstop.html




[edit on 24-5-2005 by Muaddib]

You tell another member to be quiet, and now are calling me little boy for pointing out more of your lies?....

and threw them in mass graves.

You throw your own comrades into mass graves, you think we wouldn't know you do it to us?

Give me a break. As for me calling you little boy, i was just toying with you, You are no fun mauddib.

[edit on 24-5-2005 by Syrian Sister]

Just as you claim that your insurgents are not committing suicide attacks and killing iraqis, many victims being women and children....

Insurgent Attacks in Baghdad Kill 20

Friday April 29, 2005 10:16 AM


AP Photo BAG117

By THOMAS WAGNER

Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - One day after Iraq's National Assembly approved the country's first democratically elected government, insurgents launched a series of attacks in Iraq on Friday, killing at least 20 Iraqis and wounding more than 60, officials said.

The worst-hit area was a district of Baghdad where four suicide car bombs exploded, hitting Iraqi soldiers and police and Iraqi civilians on a Friday, the Muslim day of worship for most Iraqis.

Excerpted from.
www.guardian.co.uk...

Keep praising those who have killed more Iraqis than coalition soldiers they have been able to kill.....

I keep telling you Muaddib, Iraqies, civilian aswell as those in the resistance have been suffering from these false flag operations.

As for the resistance killing occupation soldiers. Hell yeah they kill occupation soldiers. Rightly so!

I would also like to point out that you are now somewhat off topic.

Syrian sister....you keep believing those lies, yet we keep finding extremists driving trucks loaded with explosives bombing civilians, as well as insurgents using other forms of suicide bombings and attacks on Iraqi civilians. Sorry little girl, but you are the one who is wrong...and if you ahve any contacts with insurgents, I would be careful, they will probably try to recruit you for one of their suicide attacks. They tend to use teenagers for their dirty work.

Hmmm according to Syrian Sister the Iraqi's must be incredibly stupid.
Hell, supposedely the MOSSAD and the CIA are running riot over there killing countless people, but wait the Iraqi's have not produced one body or one captured agent. DUH. Hell, the Iraqi's seem to be so stupid that they don't even know that all these bombings are the CIA and MOSSAD.

Sounds incredibly stupid Syrian Sister, but that is what you're professing.

You speak to soon .

They killed several intelligence agents.

A faction of the resistance sent out four communique's, displaying the papers of a CIA agent they killed.

The first:
www.informationclearinghouse.info...

The second:
www.informationclearinghouse.info...

The Third:
www.informationclearinghouse.info...

The fourth:
www.informationclearinghouse.info...

Muaddib. i have nothing to fear from the men and women of the iraqi resistance, who are fighting for the freedom of all us. Yourself included Mauddib. You have much to be greatful for , these righteous people...

As for you calling me little girl, finally you begin to play, it took you long enough. lil' boy.

Back to the subject please guys. Back to the subject.

[edit on 24-5-2005 by Syrian Sister]

Syrian Sister, i am afraid for you. You are a teenage girl, who has obviously been brainwashed by terrorists, whom you call freedom fighters.

I am afraid for you because as you have said yourself, you are a young teenage girl and you have had contact with terrorists...

Perhaps you don't know this but terrorists have used teenage girls like you for their terrorist attacks in several parts of this world.

I have been in this world long enough to know who is telling the lies and who has been brainwashed....and you have been the one who has been providing all that i have said above.

I would be seeking help if i were you before you are brainwashed enough to do something terribly stupid.


[edit on 24-5-2005 by Muaddib]

Shame on the Islamic terrorists (both the Iraqi losers, and the imported ones.)

Murdering Foreign Civilians, then digging them up later
for propaganda purposes. Very sad, I guess thats what happens when the noose tightens.

As promised, Here is the information that I have been able to find one where the photos origionated. They are from a mass grave that was discovered on March 24, 2003 in which the bodies of 12 american servicemen. Note, dear Syrian Sister, I am even using one of the sources that you promote) Dead American Soldiers

To address the issue of mass graves as a whole. Yes there have been mass graves discovered throughout Iraq. They are filled with thousands of Iraqi bodies. These bodies were of Iraqi military, police, civilian men, women and children. The bodies contained in most of these graves have been verified as having been intered prior to the present war so could not have been. as syrian sister has stated, dead by american hads. A couple of mass graves have been discovered of more recent killings. Those who were buried were the Iraqi security forces. Even your beloved insurgents have taken credit for their deaths. A simple google search will turn up the above facts.

G oogle Search

As for the assumption that the goverment is hiding the actual number of those american soldiers killed in iraq. It has been stated that this has been done and the example provided was vietnam. The numbers were exagerated to say yhe least. The variance of the number, those of during the war in comparison to the updated ones after the war were just a simple shuffling of numbers. Prior to the update many soldiers were tagged as missing in action, pow, etc. At the end of the war, with the release of the pow's, the numbers were adjusted to reflect the known fact.

Could such an adjustment happen again? HMMMM.. possibly if you took out all of today's technology. Remove, the internet, remove email, remove IM, remove cell (satellite) phones (yes there are some there in use) If such a significant number of american casualties were even remotely true, then it would be virtually impossible to hide the fact. Also dear syrian sister, you have used the issue of the american military being angered over showing the coffins in the media. You and other anti american / anti iraq war proponents have used that as a baseball bat to prove that the numbers of deaths were being under reported. The fact that the photos were even available is in direct conflict to the article prented in this thread as well as directly conflicting with your present arguments.

"As for the assumption that the goverment is hiding the actual number of those american soldiers killed in iraq........
Could such an adjustment happen again? HMMMM.. possibly if you took out all of today's technology. Remove, the internet, remove email, remove IM, remove cell (satellite) phones (yes there are some there in use) If such a significant number of american casualties were even remotely true, then it would be virtually impossible to hide the fact. "

All the technology in the world can't beat apathy, unfortunately. Where there probably are a number of people keeping track of who is coming home, the vast majority of people choose to ignore it unless it is closer to home. If they were only to openly acknowledge 1 in 2, that is still double the people actually dying. I agree with modern communications it should be difficult to hide, but if people aren't inlined to bother and go look...?

"Also dear syrian sister, you have used the issue of the american military being angered over showing the coffins in the media. You and other anti american / anti iraq war proponents have used that as a baseball bat to prove that the numbers of deaths were being under reported. The fact that the photos were even available is in direct conflict to the article prented in this thread as well as directly conflicting with your present arguments."

I only ever remember one set of photos released and a blanket ban on reporting after that. Maybe you could enlighten us all with links in where we can see videos/photos of coffins returning on a regular basis?

[edit on 24-5-2005 by howmuchisthedoggy]

[edit on 24-5-2005 by howmuchisthedoggy]

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
As promised, Here is the information that I have been able to find one where the photos origionated. They are from a mass grave that was discovered on March 24, 2003 in which the bodies of 12 american servicemen. Note, dear Syrian Sister, I am even using one of the sources that you promote)

Dead American Soldiers



G oogle Search

kenshiro2012

Nice find it proves again that she is wrong or should we say lying once again

[edit on 5/24/2005 by shots]

howmuchisthedoggy,

All the technology in the world can't beat apathy, unfortunately. Where there probably are a number of people keeping track of who is coming home, the vast majority of people choose to ignore it unless it is closer to home. If they were only to openly acknowledge 1 in 2, that is still double the people actually dying. I agree with modern communications it should be difficult to hide, but if people aren't inlined to bother and go look...?

I do not know where you hail from nor do I know if you have any family / freinds who are engaged in this war. You state that the numbers can easliy be hidden by the goverment due to apathy. so, what you are saying is this also the state of mind for all the family members, freinds, co-workers, schoolmates. They are all apethetic and do not care? I have to disagree with this assumption.
Local news stations and papers constantly update us on those people who have either been wounded or killed. There are a number of local support groups that are there to to help the families while their loved ones are over in iraq. This does not sound like apathy to me. Maybe to you it does.

I only ever remember one set of photos released and a blanket ban on reporting after that. Maybe you could enlighten us all with links in where we can see videos/photos of coffins returning on a regular basis?

This ban has been inplace since since 1999 under the Clinton administration and 12 years earlier but only for Dover. I would have to support this ban as it is extremely inconsiderate to the families of the fallen servicemen and women to have their loved ones caskets platered all over the media to add hype for those who either oppose the bush administration or those who are against the war. I am "sure" that you would enjoy those being platered all over the world if one of the coffins contained a close family member of your.
My mentioning them in my earlier post, was due to syrian sister utilizing the photos from 2003 as "proof" of the under-statements of the death toll.

An unnatural history of the dead

The losses for both sides of this war are tragic. They but an unlikeable offspring of any conflict. Unfortunately, this thread was an attempts to utilize old photos, and old news reports in order to once again discredit the administration, the military, and ultimately the individual soldiers who are still today serving in iraq. I find this to be appaling

Originally posted by kenshiro2012

You state that the numbers can easliy be hidden by the goverment due to apathy. so, what you are saying is this also the state of mind for all the family members, freinds, co-workers, schoolmates. They are all apethetic and do not
care? I have to disagree with this assumption.

I did state this, but if you had read what I had posted (You even included it in your reply) you would see I said those apart from people close to those involved (family, friends, etc) seem to be apathethic. At a local level they know, but at a national level, the true scale of this tragedy may not be known, or at least acknowledged.

Local news stations and papers constantly update us...... a number of local support groups....help the families.... This does not sound like apathy to me. Maybe to you it does.

That is great to hear, but there was no need for the cheap shot at me and the bleeding heart routine. Let's try and stick to the facts and leave the tugging of heart strings out of it.

I am "sure" that you would enjoy those being platered all over the world if one of the coffins contained a close family member of your.

I am "sure" you aren't taking another cheap shot here and are using "you" in the third person. I believe this conflict is as tragic as you do.

However, this is irrelevant. I am sure that the possibility to tone down the numbers of dead is not so far-fetched. The US hasn't suffered any massive losses militarily in some time and the blow to morale and the boosting for popular opinion against the war wouldn't serve certain agendas.

It's all about agendas, like you say about those photos. I remember the US administration had no problem trumpeting the finds of those mass graves of Iraqi rebels in the south to help it's agenda, just like Syrian Sister. What wasn't dealt with too much was who had betrayed them and set them up for that particular run in with Saddam after Gulf War I.....

A free Iraq it would seem, then as well as now was not good for business.