Why do some people feel the need to post outright lies about Masons and Masonry?

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posted on May, 24 2005 @ 07:49 AM
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If I may say something here. Freemasonary is a cult. If you do not follow there way , then you are wrong in there eyes. I have been repeatly recruted by masons , they want me in there line of thinking as I am of a good standing and truthful , as I was told by members. I have had relatives reach the highest level of freemasonary and have had them tell me about it. I know that power , and wanting power is not the answer. You say that masons are honest and truthful , yet I see sercrety abound. This is a oxymoron. Why not come out and say that these are the sercrets that all of mankind should know and live by , instead of hidding them like you do. Is not it better for a wise man to let the persons know the truth instead of hidding it behind a veil. I am and have always looked for answers and have found some and have not. So if you have the answers that men can live by , why not let us all know so we may learn with you and maybe give you insights that you may or may not have. For the life of me I can not understand that you being an upright citizen and knowing what you all know , let the cat out of the bag and tell us your truths so we may make a discernment to the facts. Otherwise put up ot shut up. Many blessings ...


[edit on 5/24/2005 by zman]




posted on May, 24 2005 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by zman
I have been repeatly recruted by masons
[edit on 5/24/2005 by zman]


If you're going to make stuff up, at least make it believable. You kill your credibilty there with the above quoted statement, since even a cursory examination of the regulations of Freemasonry would show you that they simply don't "recruit"...



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 09:25 AM
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I probably shouldn't be poking into this, but I was working at a starbucks a few years ago and a freemason came in, started talking to one of my coworkers and in the conversation did try to "recruit" him, it included inviting him out to some gathering and talking to him a bit about why he was inviting him.

So maybe some freemasons do a little bit of light recruiting, I mean they are individual people, anything could happen. Don't write it off that quickly, he might mean something different than how you are thinking of it.


Originally posted by JustMe74

Originally posted by zman
I have been repeatly recruted by masons
[edit on 5/24/2005 by zman]


If you're going to make stuff up, at least make it believable. You kill your credibilty there with the above quoted statement, since even a cursory examination of the regulations of Freemasonry would show you that they simply don't "recruit"...



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by blanketgirl
I probably shouldn't be poking into this, but I was working at a starbucks a few years ago and a freemason came in, started talking to one of my coworkers and in the conversation did try to "recruit" him, it included inviting him out to some gathering and talking to him a bit about why he was inviting him.

So maybe some freemasons do a little bit of light recruiting, I mean they are individual people, anything could happen. Don't write it off that quickly, he might mean something different than how you are thinking of it.


The Masons have a saying: 2B1 Ask1. Perhaps the guy in Starbucks saw the Mason's ring and asked about it? They are permitted to talk about Freemasonry, people, that fact should be obvious from the posts on this very site and elsewhere. The fact of the matter is, they don't "recruit" in that they don't solicit people for membership as the above poster suggests. Actually that whole post smells fishy to me (not you, blanketgirl), but whatever. It just goes along with the title of this thread. Why post something like that? Anyways, it would not be unheard of or even uncommon for a Freemason to invite someone who had expressed an interest to come down to the lodge and visit, look around, and get any questions they may have answered.

A man has to come to Freemasonry by his own will and accord. In most jusrisdictions around the world, recruiting is expressly forbidden.

[edit on 5/24/05 by The Axeman]



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 11:44 AM
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I was recuited by a member of the blue lodge here in NJ. We had the same interest in inventions and knew I who I was by my family background. Having known this , my families background with freemasons and knowing me though being with me and asking me a ton of questions wanted me to join with him and his group of masons as acording to him a fine young gentelman who would beifit from being in there faternal order. I have been recuited as well , when I lived in SC , by masons to join them after long discusions on freemasonary. But still you have not read my post as you should have and let us know what you know so that we can discearn for ourselfs if it is indeed valid or just a cult.


[edit on 5/24/2005 by zman]



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by zman
If I may say something here. Freemasonary is a cult.


You seem so sure!


If you do not follow there way , then you are wrong in there eyes.


What do you mean "follow there (sic) way"?


I have been repeatly recruted by masons , they want me in there line of thinking as I am of a good standing and truthful , as I was told by members.


You said yourself that this was after long discussions about Freemasonry. If you told them you thought it was a cult, I'm sure they would not have wanted you to join. Seeing as you started this post stating as fact that it is a cult this doesn't make sense. Let me say here that there is a big difference between having a discussion beforehand and then saying "Well if you feel that way then maybe you should think about joining," and saying out of the blue "I want you to come join my lodge because you seem like a good guy." Every Mason knows that a man must join the fraternity of his own will and accord, with no coercion and without mercenary purposes or intentions. Before you even take the first step this FACT is plainly stated.


I have had relatives reach the highest level of freemasonary and have had them tell me about it.


What is the "highest level of Freemasonry" you speak of? If this were true, and your relatives told you the truth, then you would know that it is not a cult.


...wanting power is not the answer.


Agreed.


You say that masons are honest and truthful , yet I see sercrety abound. This is a oxymoron. Why not come out and say that these are the sercrets that all of mankind should know and live by , instead of hidding them like you do. Is not it better for a wise man to let the persons know the truth instead of hidding it behind a veil.


As has been stated here many, many, many, many times before, the secrets are the modes of recognition, and in most jurisdictions the ritual itself. Now, the lessons of Freemasonry are out there for anyone with an inclination to to learn, however the method the Masons use to teach these lessons is kept secret. This is to ensure that the Candidate will experience the Degrees the way they should be, without any prior knowledge or preconcieved notions to detract from the message. There is nothing evil or dishonest in this.


I am and have always looked for answers and have found some and have not. So if you have the answers that men can live by , why not let us all know so we may learn with you and maybe give you insights that you may or may not have. For the life of me I can not understand that you being an upright citizen and knowing what you all know , let the cat out of the bag and tell us your truths so we may make a discernment to the facts.


All you have to do is petition your local lodge. Or, if you don't want to do that, read your Bible. All the lessons of Freemasonry can be found within its pages.


...Many blessings...


Right back atcha.

In LVX,
-A

(BTW I am not a Mason but I have done considerable research on the subject, and do plan to join sometime soon.)



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by The Axeman
All you have to do is petition your local lodge. Or, if you don't want to do that, read your Bible. All the lessons of Freemasonry can be found within its pages.


Another secret of freemasonry exposed. Now i'll have to send the boys (in white aprons) round to 'sort you out'.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by The Axeman

Why do people, without a real clue as to what Masonry is about, post and promulgate such lies and falsehoods about these men?


Because the masonry insist on being "secret" and "mysterious".
They have chosen for that themselves, so now they have to deal with a % of humanity spreading the most ridiculous rumors and lies about their "secret club".
It is all pretty predictable.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by Trinityman
Another secret of freemasonry exposed. Now i'll have to send the boys (in white aprons) round to 'sort you out'.


*runs and hides*



Originally posted by Jakko
Because the masonry insist on being "secret" and "mysterious".
They have chosen for that themselves, so now they have to deal with a % of humanity spreading the most ridiculous rumors and lies about their "secret club".
It is all pretty predictable.


OK I will give you that the apparent secrecy does add to it, but jeez, man, it's so easy to find out the truth!

I guess for some, it's easier to believe that people are evil by nature and that everything that's not right out in the open for everyone to see must be nefarious. Sad, really.


I suppose, however, that is has been so throughout history, and so it shall remain. Thanks for your reply, Jakko.

P.S. Freakin' sweet avatar!



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by Jakko
Because the masonry insist on being "secret" and "mysterious".
They have chosen for that themselves, so now they have to deal with a % of humanity spreading the most ridiculous rumors and lies about their "secret club".
It is all pretty predictable.


The problem is that we are not secret. The entirety of Freemasonry is available on the internet (though one would have to wade through the disinformation, and outright lies to glean the actual rituals, grips and words). All that remains is that which we carry within our hearts, that which cannot be divulged or expressed within the confines of the electronic media.

Secret Club Monkeys, not just for decoder rings anymore...



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by Mirthful Me
All that remains is that which we carry within our hearts, that which cannot be divulged or expressed within the confines of the electronic media.


Definition: Kept hidden from knowledge or view; concealed.
Sounds like a secret!


Oh, and as for why there are people who do as the title says...see rule Number One in my signature.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander

Definition: Kept hidden from knowledge or view; concealed.
Sounds like a secret!


Oh, and as for why there are people who do as the title says...see rule Number One in my signature.


The faithful breasts that contain such knowledge were not always so endowed, they petitioned, and were granted this "knowledge," as any qualified * applicant can. Therefore any concealment is a shroud of your own making, Freemasonry is not responsible for this form of occultism.

* Qualifications for the Degrees of Freemasonry vary from Grand Lodge to Grand Lodge, check you local listing for times and channels.

Apprentice Monkeys, not just fro dusting off the spell books anymore...



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by Jakko
Because the masonry insist on being "secret" and "mysterious".
They have chosen for that themselves, so now they have to deal with a % of humanity spreading the most ridiculous rumors and lies about their "secret club".


Freemasonry has done everything it could in the past years to dispel this myth about the supposed secrecy. The fact is that Freemasonry is not secretive, we only keep our modes of recognition private (handshakes and passwords), and even those can be found on the internet or in a bookstore! So can you tell me in what other way is Freemasonry secretive?



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by zman
If I may say something here. Freemasonary is a cult. If you do not follow there way , then you are wrong in there eyes. I have been repeatly recruted by masons , they want me in there line of thinking as I am of a good standing and truthful , as I was told by members.


I think your post reeks of dishonesty. Freemasons do not recruit, nor do they coerce people into visiting lodges or petitioning. YOU MUST ASK to be a Freemason. Did you ask? If not, then you were not recruited.



I have had relatives reach the highest level of freemasonary and have had them tell me about it.


This cannot possibly be true since there are no "high levels" of Freemasonry.



Why not come out and say that these are the sercrets that all of mankind should know and live by , instead of hidding them like you do.


WHAT SECRETS!?!?!?!? We have no such secrets! Do you even know what you're talking about?



So if you have the answers that men can live by , why not let us all know so we may learn with you and maybe give you insights that you may or may not have. For the life of me I can not understand that you being an upright citizen and knowing what you all know , let the cat out of the bag and tell us your truths so we may make a discernment to the facts.


We have no such secrcets or knowledge. The Bible, on the other hand, does. The Bible is where all of Freemasonry's teaching come from, and that is where thet can all be found. These are not secrets in any way, shape or form.



Otherwise put up ot shut up. Many blessings ...


No offense, but you need to "put up" by doing some sincere and honest research on Freemasonry before making claims that are so easily dispelled. Nothing you claimed above stands up to the slightest bit of scrutiny by a knowledgeable mason.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 01:36 PM
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www.m-w.com...
In this the websters dictionary is a discription of your faternity. You being a upstanding citizen please explain why you must try to divide and concure persons who disagree with your teachings. Its almost like talking to a person who is in a realigon , who is brainwashed , and will not look for other thruths. Becaureful as I know I am not the smartest one on your faternity thruths as there is always one smarter than me or you . I think that you know why I can not give names of my realitives who have reached the 33rd level of your faternity , and those who have tried to get me to join there lodges. There is a trust and understanding that you know I can not cross. I do not hate freemasonary , but you judge me without knowing me. I do not find freemasonary the way. For the way of one is not the way of others. In your mind/sole look at what you really want and not what others tell you to achieve. Why , do you not let us know what truths there are and let us , yes us upstanding citizens be the judge on what is right in our own minds , instead of other persons writtings.I have not only have read the bible , but the Koran , and also the Kabala. I have history on all religions and have read what historians of other times , like Josephus etc. . So for me to reply to your messages of hate and trying to pass judgement on me is what I have to do. I did not bring a roll of pennies with me. I am here to talk with you on helping you understand that I feel that its a cult. Look at the discription of a cult and look at the doctrine of freemasonary. I do not hate , freemasonary , nor do I go after its members , yet I want you to understand that I think it is a cult. Do your homework ,look up cult and then look at your doctrine of freemasonary. I want you and everyone to learn and understand , and to be a upstanding citizen. I do not know or understand why you have so much hate in you. Learn to love and give of your understanding of wisdom. Reach out and tell others what wisdom comes from your teachings of masonary learnings.Why hide the wisdom as it is freely given to you , please freely give us that what you know as well. Again , many blessings ..



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 01:48 PM
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Go back in time as far as you please. Members of secret societies were looked upon with confusion at best....fear, loathing, and hatred at worst. People HATE having secrets floating around that they're not privy to, which of course means IT ISN'T A SECRET anymore. (Totally beside the point!!)

Probably one big reason Freemasons are looked down on is their historical clashes with Church AND State. (Correct me if I'm wrong...but members of Royal Families that are directly in line for the throne, and members of the largest local church population, are typically NOT accepted as candidates in that region.) Ever wonder WHY there's such a rift between Masons...and Catholics??

Insistance on connecting themselves to the Knights Templar might be a pretty big reason. The confessions, taken under duress, of Gay Orgies and prayers to a Head Of Anophet might play into one getting a "Bad Rep".

BUT like I said in my earlier post...go to the local lodge, buy a book, read it, and THEN make a decision.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by zman
You being a upstanding citizen please explain why you must try to divide and concure persons who disagree with your teachings.


WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?!? Can you give me an example of this? Freemasonry does no such thing! First you say we keep our teachings secret, now you say that we force our teachings on people? Make up your mind!

Freemasonry teaches Freemasonry to people who ask for it, the Freemasons! Nobody else. You must ASK to become a mason, and if you do not want to be one, you can demit whenever you want. I have NO IDEA what you are tallking about when you say that we divide and conquer those who do not agree with our teachings. That makes no sense whatsoever.



Its almost like talking to a person who is in a realigon , who is brainwashed , and will not look for other thruths.


I think you have a very twisted misconception of what Freemasonry is and does. I urge you to do some serious research before making anymore absurd claims.



I do not find freemasonary the way. For the way of one is not the way of others.


And Freemasonry teaches that from the very beginning. Masonry is not for everyone, and that is why only men who truly want to become Freemasons can do so. How this fits into your claims, I do not know...



Why , do you not let us know what truths there are and let us , yes us upstanding citizens be the judge on what is right in our own minds


For the last time: Freemasonry has no such truths. Freemasonry's teaching tell men to look in the Volume of Sacred Law (a mason's Bible, Koran, etc.) for those answers.



I have not only have read the bible , but the Koran , and also the Kabala. I have history on all religions and have read what historians of other times , like Josephus etc. .


Good, then you are familiar with Freemasonry's lessons.



I am here to talk with you on helping you understand that I feel that its a cult. Look at the discription of a cult and look at the doctrine of freemasonary.


You claimed this, yet have been unable to show us why you believe this. I have seen the definition of a cult, and Freemasonry does not fit the definition. Freemasonry is nothing like a cult. To you, Freemasonry is a cult because you have a serious misunderstanding of the fraternity.



I do not know or understand why you have so much hate in you. Learn to love and give of your understanding of wisdom. Reach out and tell others what wisdom comes from your teachings of masonary learnings.Why hide the wisdom as it is freely given to you , please freely give us that what you know as well.


You are a seriously confused individual. Did you read ANY of the replies to your claims that were posted by others!?!?!?



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 02:26 PM
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Here's some background info on Ilia Pavlov.

Multigroup

The firm Multigroup was suspected of laundering money for the bulgarian mafia, the firm was started by Ilija Pavlov (the son in law of the former secret service chief general Chergilanov). Pavlov bought togather with Ivan Slavkov (the son in law of the fallen Schiwkov) dumped (old) Soviet submarines.

MG Corporation

8 March 2003 was MG Corporation founder and president Iliya Pavlov (43) shot and killed in front of the corporation's headquarters in Sofia. He was Bulgaria's wealthiest businessman who transformed his former notorious Multigroup corporation (set up in the beginning of the democratic changes in Bulgaria) into MG Corporation to change its shady "grouping" image. Iliya Pavlov was ranked eight with 1,5 billion dollars among 25 billionaires in extended eastern Europe.

(So you can see he made his first money off arms sales, and he married the daughter of the Chief of Intelligence in the country, and set up his company JUST prior to Democratic changes. His success could NOT have come alone)

Now from the US Embassy

Check it out. Even the Embassy has heard 'the rumors':

"On March 7, Iliya Pavlov, reportedly head of Bulgaria's largest organized crime organization, was shot and killed in Sofia a day after he testified about his professional relationship with Lukanov in the murder case. However, all indications from official and independent sources were that his death was linked to his reported organized criminal activities"

www.usembassy.bg...

Thats all they say about it, though.

Funny that they pick up on the fact that he was murdered after testimony, but that his murder is NOT related to the testimony. In other words, someone wanted to make it LOOK like the reason he was being shot, as opposed to being killed due to criminal activity in the past.



He was a 33rd degree Mason, and he was connected with immoral business actions. Does anyone want to defend this man? No, they don't.

Not now. But when I posted this information more than 8 weeks ago, I was merely personally attacked. Let's see if things change.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
He was a 33rd degree Mason, and he was connected with immoral business actions. Does anyone want to defend this man? No, they don't.

Not now. But when I posted this information more than 8 weeks ago, I was merely personally attacked. Let's see if things change.


You just don't get it, do you!?!? You were attacked for claiming that the whole fraternity is bad simply because this guy was! And you will STILL be attacked for claiming that!

Nobody CARES about this guy! The fact that he was a 33rd degree mason, and a criminal, means nothing! The fraternity is still a good, moral and upstanding organization, regardless of what one bad apple has done!! Are you really THAT thick? Can you not understand this?

Also, why did you post this same thing twice? We ignored you the first time for a reason.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 02:34 PM
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Sorry to see you are so upset , that is not my intension. Yes , if you do look at the websters dictonary and look under the word cult , It does discribe what you belong to or long to belong to. Since you know that I have read religous therories and understandings you must know that I have , since my family instructed me to read writtings of other Masons. Since you now know that and understand I do know alot about masonic cults and there writtings , I am trying to help you learn as well. Hate filled posts and disecting mine to make your point does nothing for your learnership skills. I am here to learn as others here are about why you think others hate your religon. But , you take the task of blasting me because I think that its a cult. This is my personal thought. Again please understand that I in no way hate freemasonary. But , you who knows so much about this cult , continue to show hate and bias toward others who disbelieve what you believe. Now I wonder why they write bad things about what you believe to be the truth . You know just because you believe that the bible is in your roots in what you believe , does not mean that you are right or you are wrong , buts its what you send forth to others that see what you respond to. Again Many blessings.





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