THOSE ARE NOT SADDAMS SONS

So, there are those that are still prepared to buy the hogwash put out from the Bush administration and those that are completely skeptical that the Bush administration can say anything straight up.

dragonrider is right in the broader context in my opinion.

I also believe the timing of this creative news presentation at the point of release of the previous half-baked 9/11 enquiry is very deliberate.

But most assuredly not even the more honest mainstream press will let either of these events go now.

Rumsfeld was lying through his teeth, but none of us are qualified to know about which part.

Dental records and X-rays can be contrived to match anybody.

I have no reason to disbelieve that army personnel can email friends in the US. Basic entitlement. Nothing restricting what they say, either, until later if they are censured (not censored).

I am really interested to find that a significant number of ATS people do not believe the Hussein brothers are dead (or at least not as a result of this last bit of media staging).

I don't know and I don't care, it is trivial to the circumstances the divided world has found itself in.

The liars must go.

Originally posted by Micah
Thoses photo releases look pretty shuddy to me. I have never seen such bad makeovers in my life. They should fire the guys that did the shuddy face rebuilds

But of course you know they would not look so bad if they where the real sons of Saddam. It's all a big ploy to make it look like they actually accomplished something. You know I think, Saddam and his family are setting back in a nice cusey recliners in their underground base, have a laugh at the shuddy work done, to show that they are died. But in time, when the time is right, they could for some unknown reason appear there in Iran, and than Bush would make reason to invade Iran.

Thats the 1 john!
The Americans are doing their usual Lieing.

Rumsfeld was lying through his teeth, but none of us are qualified to know about which part

Exactly. You said the truth right there in plain english for once.

You are not even near in the loop. or qualified to call any one a liar when you have no real intel or imformation beside some news reproting and hack propagandanist left wing whishy washy.

Tyriffic

Sorry.

I am well qualified to call someone a liar based on observation of speech pattern and gestures and comparison with regular deportment. Very well qualified.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
Tyriffic

Sorry.

I am well qualified to call someone a liar based on observation of speech pattern and gestures and comparison with regular deportment. Very well qualified.

Can i see you certificate please! or you Maters Degree

drunk

1. Yeah, come and have a look on my walls.

2. You don't need a 'Maters degree' as you called it for mating.

3. I stand by what I said.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
Tyriffic

Sorry.

I am well qualified to call someone a liar based on observation of speech pattern and gestures and comparison with regular deportment. Very well qualified.

You may be. I have none of your credentials.

I just wonder if you can tell the difference between operational security and lying??

I think your steadfast stand against anything this Admin does disqualifys you from objectivity.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
drunk

1. Yeah, come and have a look on my walls.

2. You don't need a 'Maters degree' as you called it for mating.

3. I stand by what I said.

Oops forgot to edit it Masters

Tyriffic

Perhaps.

But I am at a conspiracy site gathering information on the why's and wherefore's of the disinformation and lies.

What sort of site are you at?





drunk

In your case maybe you should get the Maters degree.


[Edited on 26-7-2003 by MaskedAvatar]

MA i am fully qualified in that area thanx how about you?

drunk

Pleased to hear it!

I generally get HDs. Got one F after a very drunken night seeing the Cirque Du Soleil.

But I haven't been a diligent Maters student for a while.

I find it hard that in a nation where they have no Internet. (What they had was a national net that no one could go to anything that wasn't Iraqi, and now that's been pulverised).

That a soldier can manage to send an Email without the Government knowing about it...since of course he'd be using Government servers anyways (So that IP address from Iraq is a little fishy, since the servers would probably have their own IP that wouldn't show the actual geographic location)...

Either way, he'd log onto his service-man's account and be limited from using civilian email...or else we could just have some soldier that disagree's with Pummeling evil Republican Gaurdsmen, email Saddam that "We're going to roll into baghdad with only Armor ... so get a bunch of TOWs ready."

Nope, not going to happen.

Band of Brothers was so good, why does everyone have to make our soldiers today look like crap, because they don't want to get rid of a bad man.

You'd all look like crap if this were back in WW2, you don't disagree with the facts, you just disagree period...no matter how wrong you are.

Originally posted by FreeMason
I find it hard that in a nation where they have no Internet. (What they had was a national net that no one could go to anything that wasn't Iraqi, and now that's been pulverised).

That a soldier can manage to send an Email without the Government knowing about it...since of course he'd be using Government servers anyways (So that IP address from Iraq is a little fishy, since the servers would probably have their own IP that wouldn't show the actual geographic location)...

Either way, he'd log onto his service-man's account and be limited from using civilian email...or else we could just have some soldier that disagree's with Pummeling evil Republican Gaurdsmen, email Saddam that "We're going to roll into baghdad with only Armor ... so get a bunch of TOWs ready."

Nope, not going to happen.

Band of Brothers was so good, why does everyone have to make our soldiers today look like crap, because they don't want to get rid of a bad man.

You'd all look like crap if this were back in WW2, you don't disagree with the facts, you just disagree period...no matter how wrong you are.

Good point FM no internet in war torn Iraq well not now anyway.

FreeMason

I can email you from anywhere in the world if I choose, whether or not the host nation has internet service providers and whether or not I am sitting at a computer. The message could, however, be easily intercepted.

I could list 20 ways a serviceman in Iraq could email a friend in the US, not using a serviceman's account or government servers, but it's not the point.

I have no reason to disbelieve that such a message was sent. I have every reason to disbelieve what comes out of the Bush administration.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
FreeMason

I can email you from anywhere in the world if I choose, whether or not the host nation has internet service providers and whether or not I am sitting at a computer. The message could, however, be easily intercepted.

I could list 20 ways a serviceman in Iraq could email a friend in the US, not using a serviceman's account or government servers, but it's not the point.

I have no reason to disbelieve that such a message was sent. I have every reason to disbelieve what comes out of the Bush administration.

MA i find your first paragraph impossible to agree with unless of course
you own palm comp(or wqhatever its called)

drunk

There are dozens of devices capable of sending data remotely.

I have every reason to believe the message sent from this guy in the 101st is a bunch of crock, either it is, or he is...of 17,000 men this guy has a better chance of being on the side lines than being the man there at the door when the U and Q bit the big one.

As for the question of why torch them instead of using Tear Gas?

Tear Gas is not exactly on hand in the 101st, you can't wait 2 days for tear gas that will actually arrive in 4 days due to beauracracy...they needed to get rid of them fast, and the mortars and explosives would have been more for a "diversion" as the assualt teams moved in, rather than actuall intention of blasting them to smitherenes.

That's just how it turned out...

FreeMason

I agree with you that in order for the guy in question "Chad" to have sent this message he would need the ability to move himself or his message from the attack zone to the sidelines with great alacrity. I can't comment any further than that.

I have no reason to disbelieve this unless there is reason to disbelieve the relatively new member who made this assertion.

Two things:

1. The original poster of this Topic never said he had contact with his friend Chad by email. I am not bothering to see who first brought the 'email' disinformation into this Topic.

2. Collected reactions and comments about the shaved & cosmetically repaired corpses:

washingtonpost.com
U.S. Shows Hussein Brothers' Bodies

By MATT MOORE
The Associated Press
Friday, July 25, 2003; 2:02 PM

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The U.S. military displayed the bodies of Saddam Hussein's sons on Friday, the faces reconstructed to appear as lifelike as possible after still photographs failed to convince many Iraqis the brothers were really dead.

Meanwhile, a U.S. general said American troops acting on an Iraqi tip captured five to 10 people believed to be Saddam's bodyguards in raid outside Tikrit, a sign forces were closing in on Saddam himself.

"We continue to tighten the noose," said Maj. Gen. Ray Odierno, commander of the Army's 4th Infantry Division, speaking Friday to reporters at the Pentagon via video hookup from Tikrit, Saddam's hometown and a source of continuing support for his deposed regime.

The images of Odai and Qusai Hussein published Thursday had raised criticism by showing only the brothers' faces and upper chests - the faces obscured by heavy beards, blood and gashes - and giving no indication of height.

By contrast, the military showed journalists including an Associated Press reporter the autopsied bodies covered only by sheets and presented identifying evidence, including dental records and a rod from Odai's leg.

Odai's beard had been trimmed to the length he had worn it in life. Qusai's beard was shaved off and he had only a mustache, his trademark. The faces appeared waxy and heavily made up.

Morticians removed a large gash that had cut across the middle of Odai's face. Odai's abdomen had been riddled with bullets, and the torsos of both brothers bore large Y-shaped incisions.

Autopsy incisions were also visible on Odai's left leg, where doctors removed the 8-inch long bar inserted after a 1996 assassination attempt. A piece of leg bone taken out with the bar was wrapped in plastic and lying next to his body on the gurney.

Odai, 39, and Qusai, 37, were killed Tuesday in a gunbattle with U.S. troops, who raided a villa in the northern city of Mosul, directed there by an Iraqi tipster. Two other Iraqis in the house also were killed, believed to be a bodyguard and Qusai's teenage son Mustafa.

The U.S. military had offered a $15 million reward for information leading to the capture or death of the brothers - two of the most feared men in Iraq and Nos. 2 and 3 on the American list of most-wanted Iraqis.

Odai was believed to have died from a head injury caused by a blunt object. Qusai had two bullet wounds to his head, in and just behind his right ear, doctors and medical officials said. They said they did not think the wounds were self-inflicted. A final report on the brothers' deaths was expected within six weeks.

Saddam's sons responded to U.S. soldiers' demand to surrender with a hail of gunfire, so there was no way they could have been captured alive, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Thursday in Washington.

Some Iraqis say they would have preferred that the sons were captured and put on trial, but Rumsfeld said there was no reason to second-guess the actions of the 101st Airborne Division troops who carried out the quick-reaction mission in Mosul.

"Given the amount of gunfire that came from that building ... it is I think obvious that there was no chance of taking them alive," the defense secretary said.

Speaking from Tikrit, Odierno said the deaths of Odai and Qusai have prompted more tips from Iraqis such as the ones that led to the capture Thursday of Saddam's bodyguards. "We've shown them no one of the old regime is going to survive," the general said.

U.S. officials said the bodies would be stored in a refrigerated tent at Baghdad International Airport until a family member came forward to claim them.

The U.S. civil administration in Iraq was talking to the country's Governing Council about how to preserve the bodies according to Islamic custom, which calls for burial as soon as possible. Usually, Muslims are buried before nightfall the day they die.

However, the reconstruction - a common funeral practice in the West - could raise doubts and anger among Iraqis, since Muslims have no tradition of embalming bodies.

Before burial, the bodies of Muslims are washed and wrapped in white cotton cloth, but they are not otherwise treated. If a Muslim falls in battle, then he or she are declared a martyr and buried without their bodies washed.

The extensive plastic surgery also could fuel Iraqi suspicions that the Americans tampered with bodies to make them resemble the brothers.

U.S. officials said they treated the bodies with the same respect given any corpse, and that making the brothers look lifelike was standard military procedure.

But the reconstruction was significant because of the doubt about the still photographs. Surgeons showed reporters dental X-rays and said serial and model numbers on the rod from Odai's leg matched data they had about it.

The photographs released Thursday were widely viewed on television around the world, including in Iraq. Among the complaints was that the photographs did not show the sons' full bodies, giving no way to judge their height.

Most papers in the capital, Baghdad, did not publish Friday, a Muslim day of prayer and rest. The Al Ray Al-Am ran a story about the pictures, but did not show them, opting instead to show an older color photo of Odai wearing an Arab headdress, his faced crossed out with a red "X."

The photos seemed to have had little effect on Iraqi opinion.

"This is a U.S. ploy to try to break the spirit of the resistance," said Jassim al-Robai, a computer engineer, who said the photographs did not convince him the brothers were killed.

Two U.S. military photos showed a man identified as Qusai with bruises and blood spots around his eyes. That face was far more intact than the other, identified as Odai.

The face of what appeared to be Odai was severely bloodied. A gash ran from his left eye to the right corner of his mouth, and bruises and blood covered his forehead.

Both men were heavily bearded, which left some Iraqis speculating that they may have been trying to mask their identities. They had been on the run since the regime collapsed April 9.

Originally posted by TheGoldenSun
I truely believe Veritas will be a big fuel for the revolution. But we need help and support. Are you with us?

i will fight to the death! you all know that! we will uncover the truth, and restore civility to government, not just lies and conspiracies and coverups, we will fight for the just, and keep all men free. i will join this fight.

we shall be the symbol of hope for the people