THOSE ARE NOT SADDAMS SONS

Hey, AgentBlueBook.

Why don't you go to hell you worthless #.

You'd all look like crap if this were back in WW2, you don't disagree with the facts, you just disagree period...no matter how wrong you are. Posted by Freemason

From lips of Sgt. Rock himself...

Yeah Dragonrider, Gryffen is also a part of the "Brittish Military"...which makes it quite possible she's still in Scotland Posted by FM

I believe she has a bit more military credibility that others in this thread...

Originally posted by AgentBlueBook
No Military Personnel, in Iraq OR Kuwait, have any other access to email providers OTHER than that which has been set up by the UNITED STATES MILITARY.
This means, YAHOO, AOL, HOTMAIL, or any other INTERNET EMAIL PROVIDER is forbidden use by any DOD personnel.
GoldenSun, thank you for providing the identity of your so called 101st DIV ARMY OFFICER Friend. With the helpful information you have provided, I will personally pay a visit to OSI (Office of Special Investigations) and give them the information so that your friend is court martialed on suspicion of spreading misinformation that could prove harmful to our nation's most current mission. Furthermore, IF what you say is true, then your friend is in A LOT of hot water. At the very least, he will be questioned. Why don't you tell him what you've been doing for him on the internet and how it's your fault that he may be facing time at FORT LEVINWORTH.
You have a chance to come clean before I go talk to OSI tomorrow.

Thanks and have a nice day.

Compliments of your new special Air Force friend

ABB

From a truth seeker:

EXCELLENT!

When ABB visits upon the now-known individual and sets up courtmartial proceedings, we will know that Golden Sun was telling the truth.

But how will we really know that ABB has gone and done what he said he would go and do? What if he just says he has, or if he comes back and says. "No such serviceman exists".

Is there any reason to believe him as a "newbie"?

Here is the crux of the problem everyone faces.

The Bush administration is (so far) totally unaccountable for its criminality, lies, deceit, misinformation and cover-ups throughout this whole proceeding. That will change.

Anything that 'comes out of Iraq' at this juncture on ATS has equal credibility with anything spun by the Bush administration timed to take the media's eye of the 9/11 enquiry findings, etc. ATS is a microcosm of reaction to the most criminal administration in US history.

I reserve my judgment totally on the statements of Golden Sun and ABB.

Whoever has lied about what they have reported in these circumstances though, should be removed from ATS and not allowed back under any guise, be they revolutionary, air force commander or anyone else.

Trying to prove people's identities and occupations over the Net is distracting us from the topic at hand--- the disinformation inherent in this story about Saddam's sons being killed by the US Military.

Guys those two are as dead as a doornail, dental records do not lie and neither do x-rays. Anyone who has been within 10ft of these two losers has stated that beyond any shadow of doubt.

Either way they are incidents which already happened.

If that's the case, are the dental records & x-rays accessible to the public? If crude pictures are readily displayed to the public, shouldn't we be able to view the x-rays (at least)?

If anyone has a link of these x-rays and/or dental records, please post it. There are people on this discussion forum who have been trained to read them.

Good point MK

I wonder if Golden Sun and ABB should go and make their resolution privately, and advise the outcomes in due course.

It worries me in this way though:

1. If one of the brothers had a known implant in his leg, you need to verify you have the actual X-ray of that leg to compare it. Not too difficult to get matching X-rays of a doctored corpse to match the corpse.

2. I put more credibility in dental records than the above. How did the brothers' dental records arrive in the hands of the US military?

Previously, the media had anticipated DNA testing. This didn't come out in the final wash.

The whole presentation is again smacking of lies, lies, lies. Why?

It is a very sad state of affairs when the world has become so tired and cynical in relation to the criminal gang in Washington. It disturbs me that perhaps that is all to plan, to keep pushing the envelope on the bounds of credibility, until people no longer care they are lied to by these arseholes.

Systematic desensitization to lies, to back up the systematic desensitization to the horrors of war.

I for one am not desensitized and never will be.

You too, I hope, MK.

AgentBlueBook

If something happens to my friend because of this and you're involved, there will be hell to pay.

GoldenSun,
I think you should heed the warnings of some here and perhaps do as MA has eluded to and resolve this issue with ABB privately. I, for one, think you pushed the "envelope" when you exposed your "source" by giving his name. Thats like a major 'no-no.' Your eagerness to plead your trustworthiness has possibly resulted in a number of unforeseen ramifications on your part and your "sources" part.

A few suggestion were given and hinted to and you may wish to seek those routes other than making this into a widely "viewed" issue and a case of making verbal threats........

regards
seekerof

[Edited on 26-7-2003 by Seekerof]

I'm just going to end this issue now. Move on, One of my weak points is letting people get to me sometimes. I apologize to everyone.

I have nothing to worry about concerning my friend though, there is absolutely no supervision on his internet access and I have already deleted the mail.

MULTIPLE METHODS were used to make sure Odai and Qusai Hussein were indeed among those killed in Tuesday�s six-hour firefight in the northern city of Mosul, Army Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez told reporters in Baghdad on Wednesday.

The bodies were flown by helicopter to Baghdad International Airport and identified independently by four senior Iraqi detainees familiar with Saddam�s sons, Sanchez said.

He also said their teeth were compared with dental records for Qusai and Odai � resulting in a 100 percent match with Qusai�s records, and a 90 percent match with Odai�s. �This was limited only because injuries to the teeth made a perfect match impossible,� Sanchez said.

Old scars on Odai�s body also were consistent with X-ray records of his injuries in a 1996 assassination attempt, he said.

Two other bodies were recovered after the battle, including a person who may have been a bodyguard and perhaps Qusai�s 14-year-old son, Mustapha, the sources told NBC.

Samples were taken from the bodies for DNA testing after they were flown from Mosul, the Associated Press quoted unidentified officials as saying. DNA from the victims could be matched with samples from other members of Saddam�s family. Military spokesmen have hinted that U.S. officials possess a reference sample of Saddam�s DNA.

�We will continue with the autopsies on the bodies to get final conclusive evidence,� Sanchez told reporters. He said a decision on the final disposition of the four bodies was �yet to be made.�


THE TESTING PROCESS
If the process of DNA sample collection and testing followed the typical scenario, the samples would be collected quickly but carefully, said Victor Weedn, who helped develop the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory in 1990 and is now director of biotechnology and health initiatives at Carnegie Mellon University.

It�s possible to do quick genetic testing on the scene, using portable equipment adapted for forensic purposes, he said. But he also speculated that samples would be flown to Rockville, Md., for more extensive testing at his former laboratory.

He stressed that he had no inside knowledge about the handling of samples from Saddam�s sons, but said �it would seem to me that you would most want to do the testing in a pristine environment, with people who are used to doing it with the instruments on hand.�

There have been several false alarms on the demise of Saddam and/or his sons, so by now the military likely has been well-trained in how to handle samples for DNA testing.

�The tissues have to be adequately documented and preserved,� Weedn said. �It�s difficult to do in a war scenario, but because of the early questions on the ID of Saddam, I imagine that the military has increased their awareness of these as issues. We are told that there are forensic guys in country to help with these issues.�

He emphasized that �the military has very significant capabilities to perform this DNA testing.�

�If you�re really set up for it and you start today, conventional DNA testing could really be done in a day,� Weedn said. �Mitochondrial [DNA testing] would take several weeks.�

Mitochondrial DNA, extracted from outside the nucleus of the cell, can be used to trace maternal ancestry.

Once the results are in hand, forensic investigators would compare them with a sample of the family�s DNA. The closer the relationship, the more reliable any match would be.

�If you had Odai and Qusai, you�d want them as references for Saddam and others,� Weedn said. �You will find that with all this testing on bodies and remains from future recoveries, there�ll be kindred relations that you�ll want to put together, and these will be additional puzzle pieces ... To the extent that it is a firm ID now, these samples would be useful for identifying other kindred, such as the father.�



[Edited on 26-7-2003 by Toltec]

Golden Sun,

1.) It is wrong for your friend to disclose information to anyone when one is under oath to defend one's country.

2.) It may even be a greater wrong for one's country to distort the truth and mix them with lies.

3.) It was wrong for you to take the information your friend entrusted you with and to post it publicly in a forum where that information may possibly backfire on your friend, provided the basis you revealed his name and unit.

Be that as it may, verbal threats more often than not infuriate people and can sometimes lead to actions that may be regretted later.
However, being the reasonable man that I am, I have not gone to OSI yet and if you agree on a truce between me and you, on the provisions that you do not disclose information to the public that has been privately entrusted to you in the future (and if you do happen to disclose information you shouldn't, DON'T GIVE AWAY YOUR SOURCE), then I will be willing to forego this incident and not incriminate you or your friend.

Maybe I owe you an apology for being rash, but seriously, other than military email, some internet message boards haven't been filtered out. Unless your friend's job deals with computer networking and trouble shooting, it is hard for one to believe he has ready access to yahoo email when it has been strictly forbidden by CENTAF.

Furthermore, I don't think it matters how Usay and Qusay died. The fact that they're dead is enough. Lets put our differences aside and instead go kill Saddam, provided he's not allready dead as well.

That's my take

ABB

How about having the funeral televised? Thats probably against Muslem law.

As far as the ISP's go in Afganastan there was no internet providers at one time. BUT Bin laden's men were known to use laptops, and used them in those caves also. It can be done.
Some military personel did bring laptops to Iraq with them to communcate with their families. We will hear conflicting stories from them once they leave Iraq and are out of the miltary. Whether anybody believes them or not is a differant story.

I don't believe that one picture of Saddams younger son looks like him at all. Not all muslems grow beards depending upon what area you are from, some of it is forbidden. All of Saddams high ranking military personnel had mostaches if you's remember correctly.

I want to see if any of Saddams family members step forward to claim the bodies. Saddams daughters and grandchildren can claim the bodies there are no arrest warrants on them. But fear of it will probably keep them away. Saddam has another son, but he did not work for his father. He could step forward, but I doubt it. One of Saddams daughters was or is (depending upon if she is not dead already) married to a high ranking military official of Saddams. She was forced into marry the IDIOT.

As I said, lets move on. I got carried away because I wanted to give as much evidence as possible to prove that I was telling the truth.

I still hold to what he told me, and believe that he would not send an email across the seas just to lie to me.

Lets settle this over a mug of beer

Now I am worried that Toltec is taking my own legitimate concerns, founded on nothing but reading media spin, 'evolving' contradictory stories, and my own logic, and posting them to the Bush military media spin department to help the next disinformation instalment.

J/K

Actually a very interesting analysis of proceedings and methodologies, Toltec. All the scientific identification procedure is there. Whether or not it has ever been or will ever be followed in this case is beyond our grasp. Believe or disbelieve. I remain agnostic (in the knowing not religious sense) on this.

It is a very sad state of affairs when the world has become so tired and cynical in relation to the criminal gang in Washington. It disturbs me that perhaps that is all to plan, to keep pushing the envelope on the bounds of credibility, until people no longer care they are lied to by these arseholes.

Systematic desensitization to lies, to back up the systematic desensitization to the horrors of war.

I for one am not desensitized and never will be.

You too, I hope, MK.

I refuse to be desensitized. It is important to point out each lie, each "coincidence", because when you place them together it easily demonstrates that there is indeed an agenda behind the behavior.

And MA, you are absolutely right, it has been presented in such a systematic (and planned) method, that the american public has no clue what is "spin" and what is the truth. I postulate that the media is only giving us ~20% of the actual truth on any current international story.

The media are masters at misdirection.... and we've been conditioned to believe their "magic".

The only reason they have mentioned anything about Saddam's sons at all is because they are still trying to convince the public that the war was justified.

MA someone asked the question and I posted the response.

This is actually a bit halarious

Clearly disinformation is a two way street, better yet a superhighway.

Some make it sound like its a dirt road between Mexico and the United States

[Edited on 27-7-2003 by Toltec]

I have to say Goldensun did bring this upon himself/herself, he/she only has himself/herself to blame

Having said that i believe him/her. sorry bout the him her stuff but not sure if Goldensun is male or female.

[Edited on 27-7-2003 by drunk]

Just so everyone here knows the facts. I was recently married to an Air Force member. They are NOT allowed private email accounts during war time(Americans) cannot say the same for the Brits Gryff. They do not allow them private accounts from any military establishment. They do not allow private email accounts from an area of threat.

Please pay close attention to the word *private* in the above paragraph. They do not offer calls and or communications to anyone besides immediate family members, and these calls are *morale* calls and they are monitored 100%. Meaning me, as a wife or mother could not know the exact location of my husband/child. This is for their safety. This is for my safety and ultimately yours.

I don't understand the intentions of the initial poster of this thread And I'm certainly not going to rat on you, because YOU, my friend would be in some very deep #. It would be ANY/ALL military members obligation whether they "wanted to", or not, to turn you in. So I would HIGHLY suggest that you beg and plead with an admin or mod to delete this thread before a military member does happen to read this.
Magestica

since when is gestapo posting allowed here ?