J-10 production in problems?

I can safely say it is not a copy. It is BASED on the Lavi, if you compare its dimensions, wing area, wing shape etc you will find that they are quite different, but the J-10 has many features BASED on the Lavi.

Performance is generally speculated to be within the class of a late-model F-16, although maneuverability is thought to be superior, possibly within the range of some early fifth generation European fighters (Ahem, Eurofighter, Su-27 etc). A bubble canopy provides 360 degrees of visual coverage for the pilot.


Avonics of the J-10:

A digital, quadruplex fly-by-wire system aids the pilot in flying the aircraft. Information is provided visually to the pilot, in the form of three liquid crystal Multi-Functional Displays within the cockpit. Western-style HOTAS (Hands On Throttle And Stick) controls are incorporated in the J-10's design.

The radar type equipping the J-10 is not yet known; possible candidates include the Russian RP-35 and NO-11, the Israeli EL/M-2035, the Italian Grifo 2000 and the domestic JL-10A. A comprehensive Electronic countermeasures (ECM) package is likely to be present, including active jammers.




[edit on 12/6/05 by W4rl0rD]

The major thing is PLAAF does not acknowledge the existence of J-10 so technically, J-10 doesn't exist. There is no info on it, one can only speculate and try and get info from interviews with CIC technicians. No one knows the capabilities of the J-10 and what is to be equipped on there.

How can they deny its existence but yet release photos of it, and ask Russia to provide parts for it?

I dont think the military released any photos of the J10....Most likely military fans or spies, but I might be wrong

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
Can we now agree that the J-10 is not a copy of the F-16?

You cant say the same thing about the J-10 and the Lavi, can you

An imitation or reproduction of an original; a duplicate: a copy of a painting; made two copies of the letter.

now can you tell us what on the LAVI is found on the j-10?

if not dont raise the subject again

*wave*

how can you say that that the J-10 has totally different systems from the LAVI. I mean its an open secret that Israeli engineer's worked in the J-10.

Its radar might be another chinese edition of the israeli EL/M-2035 radar.

Originally posted by chinawhite

Here's what i found on the WS-10 :

The CAC is also trying to replace the Russian AL-31F with the indigenously developed WS-10A, which is said to be a Chinese copy of the Russian AL-31FN.

www.sinodefence.com...



there is a difference between said and is
jesus its like you got a in-built dumb machine in your head.

GROW A BRAIN chinawhite. Get over your ignorance.

Why TF would sinodefence say that the WS-10 is a chinese copy. ??

anyway russian never agreed to sell china AL-31F engine tech.

Which is precisely why there is reason to illegally copy it.

And there is good reason to believe what sinodefence has to say going by china's previous experience in blind copying.


It seems you got an inbuilt piece of sh** in your brain that keeps making you say that every chinese copy is an indegenous development.

Boy try telling things to a brick wall.....what a dim bulb

if you cant keep your posts civil and devoid of personal attacks then dont expect the same from replies.

look at warlord and cowlan for example, they continue a civil discussion and attract a similar reply.

but you seem to be farting out of you keyboard and the attitude of your posts incline me to exxagerate chinese copying and post flak and filth about the same.


[edit on 13-6-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

Originally posted by chinawhite

Here's what i found on the WS-10 :

The CAC is also trying to replace the Russian AL-31F with the indigenously developed WS-10A, which is said to be a Chinese copy of the Russian AL-31FN.

www.sinodefence.com...

there is a difference between said and is
jesus its like you got a in-built dumb machine in your head.

GROW A BRAIN chinawhite. Get over your ignorance.

Why TF would sinodefence say that the WS-10 is a chinese copy. ??


Did sinodefence say it was a copy of the AL-31F??? i dont think so.

its like you cant read english or something.

sinodefence said

which is said to be a Chinese copy of the Russian AL-31FN

you say its

Chinese copy of the Russian AL-31FN.

umm.. you think sinodefence does there own research..?? i wouldn't give much credit to there reliablity its just a mix and match from other military websites. he doesn't do his own research on the systems.

your basing your whole claim on the sinodefence and other very outdated articles.

Which is precisely why there is reason to illegally copy it.

And there is good reason to believe what sinodefence has to say going by china's previous experience in blind copying.

It seems you got an inbuilt piece of sh** in your brain that keeps making you say that every chinese copy is an indegenous development.

Boy try telling things to a brick wall.....what a dim bulb

[edit on 13-6-2005 by Stealth Spy]

ill ignore you comments

its hard to keep conversations civil with you seeing how you post the same thing in practicly every single thread i am in. the height of stupidity amazes mes


china wouldn't need to illeaglly copy the russian engine because chinas own engine is pretty much already developed without russian help

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
how can you say that that the J-10 has totally different systems from the LAVI. I mean its an open secret that Israeli engineer's worked in the J-10.

Are you trying to say China copied the Lavi or China got some help with developing the J-10? Cos I wouldn't be surprised if they got help from Israelis, and it's totally legal to pay some technicians from another country to come over and do some work for them. Nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't call it a copy of the Lavi though. Lavi has a fatter nose, larger canopy that is placed further back, canards that are further back and IIRC the wings are more swept. That's just the outside. The insides are probably very different but we'll never know for sure. The PLAAF is not going to release that kind of info easily.

Originally posted by Taishyou

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
how can you say that that the J-10 has totally different systems from the LAVI. I mean its an open secret that Israeli engineer's worked in the J-10.

Cos I wouldn't be surprised if they got help from Israelis, and it's totally legal to pay some technicians from another country to come over and do some work for them. Nothing wrong with that.

I agree there's nothing wrong.

But IMO, its wrong to take this help and then deny taking this help and pompously announce that Israel has nothing to do with it (like chinawhite does)

I wouldn't call it a copy of the Lavi though. Lavi has a fatter nose, larger canopy that is placed further back, canards that are further back and IIRC the wings are more swept. That's just the outside. The insides are probably very different but we'll never know for sure. The PLAAF is not going to release that kind of info easily.

Alright i too wont call it an outright copy(like the J-6, J-7, several tanks, rockets, missiles and small arms). But i would'nt write off the FACT that it is very heavily based on the Lavi.

Originally posted by chinawhite
sinodefence said which is said to be a Chinese copy of the Russian AL-31FN

you say its Chinese copy of the Russian AL-31FN.

That's what you claim i have said.

Dont fudge things. Quote what i have posted properly.

I've quoted sinodefence word to word.

If you're eyes are working and you've learned to read you'll find that i've psoted the same thing that sinodefence has said, and only underlined the relavent text without removing any "it is said" part.

china wouldn't need to illeaglly copy the russian engine because chinas own engine is pretty much already developed without russian help

*laughing in the inside* alright be it so. I wont comment

www.jamestown.org...

So far, the Ramenskoye-based (Moscow Region) Technocomplex Scientific Production Centre has been upgrading both single-seat and two-seat Su-27s for the PLAAF. The scope of this upgrade work is an example of the integrated thinking that surrounds China's future fighter program and the J-10/F-10 and Su-27/J-11 in particular. Having mastered basic airframe assembly, China currently controls an upgrade package that will allow it to integrate the weapons and systems under development. Although the Moscow-based machine-building enterprise Salyut has not yet delivered to China the AL-31 engine, which features a fully variable, rotating, thrust-vector control (TVC) nozzle designed by the St. Petersburg-based Klimov Corporation, when the delivery occurs, the AL-31 can be retrofitted during an engine upgrade, turning the J-10 into a highly maneuverable fighter. Furthermore, it appears that the Chinese-built WS10A engine that powers the J-10 fighter can match the performance of the AL-31 engine, despite differences in design and manufacture

There. I'll like to see you debunk that. There was definetely some Russian help, but it is in NO WAYS A COPY of the AL-31FN. Btw, the new Al-31s that are going to be delievered to China will have 3d TVC, and will be fitted to the Su-30MKKs, J-11/Su-27s. So, next time you want to compare the MKI with the MKK, you can stop typing about how the MKI has TVC and the MKK does not. Both will have 3D TVC.

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

Originally posted by chinawhite
sinodefence said which is said to be a Chinese copy of the Russian AL-31FN

you say its Chinese copy of the Russian AL-31FN.

That's what you claim i have said.

Dont fudge things. Quote what i have posted properly.

I've quoted sinodefence word to word.

china wouldn't need to illeaglly copy the russian engine because chinas own engine is pretty much already developed without russian help

*laughing in the inside* alright be it so. I wont comment

LOL your just laughing at yourself.....

Originally posted by Stealth Spy


The WS-10A is a copy of the AL-31FN, not the AL-31F.

Read the sinodefence article Jim

If you're eyes are working and you've learned to read you'll find that i've psoted the same thing that sinodefence has said, and only underlined the relavent text without removing any "it is said" part.

haha there you wrong again

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
I think it would be better if China use Russian engines and not the WS-10

Here's what i found on the WS-10 :

The CAC is also trying to replace the Russian AL-31F with the indigenously developed WS-10A, which is said to be a Chinese copy of the Russian AL-31FN.

www.sinodefence.com...

It seems to be having problems as well, so Russian engines might be a better choice

Actually there are almost as many differences between the J-10 and Lavi as there are between the J-10 and F-16. Its about time some people actually tried denying ignorance as they like to hang out here.

Agreed, but I still don't know whether J-10 has AL-31F or AL-31FN engines although future engines are already known.

Originally posted by waynos
Actually there are almost as many differences between the J-10 and Lavi as there are between the J-10 and F-16. Its about time some people actually tried denying ignorance as they like to hang out here.

lol do you know jack..hahah it you lok at the mig-29 and f-18 horrent they also have the same outside apperence.

Originally posted by COWlan
Agreed, but I still don't know whether J-10 has AL-31F or AL-31FN engines although future engines are already known.

the first 50 are going to have AL-31FN engines and the rest are going to have WS-10A

spot the differnces.
LAVI

F-16



J-10

LAVI

swedish grippen



LAVI

There has been much speculation on the development of China's J-10 fighter. Many suggested the aircraft's design was based on the Lavi- the unsuccessful attempt by Israel to develop an indigenous F-16 fighter.

global secruity updated their j-10 page..

www.globalsecurity.org...

Preliminary designs for two new versions of the J-10 featuring single and twin engines and LO geometry were also completed.

new j-10s and j-10 hasn't even started mass production




[edit on 17-6-2005 by chinawhite]