A Legitimate Question ...

You are what you are. Most males you see who wear dresses are autogynephiles and hate women.
They get off on looking like a woman, which they don't achieve anyways.
We must not be part of their sexual phantasies.
I won't play their game and be part of it. It makes me feel dirty.

I am a decent, married woman and I am not playing.

originally posted by: incoserv
I got to wondering today:

If "gender" is a social construct and has no real meaning, pariticularly in relation to one's genetic and physical attributes;

That is to say that having XY chromosomes and a penis or XX chromosomes and a vagina are meaningless;

If one's physical attributes do not define one's gender and one can be whatever one wants or feels regardless of what their genetic and physical makeup are;

Why is attermpting to physically alter one's external equipment somehow "affirming." If that equipment does not define one why must it be surgically or medically revised?

There seems to be a major contradiction there. On the one hand, having or not having a certain set of equpiment does not define who and what I am. On the other hand, an attempt to surgically alter that equpiment does define who and what I am.

If there is, for example, no definition for what a woman is, how does having my penis surgically removed make me more of a woman?

I think that these are legitimate questions. I expect the regular crowd of trolls to personally attack me, accuse me of having voyeuristic interest in other people's sexuality, etc., etc., etc. (We all know the tropes.) I'll ignore them as those people simply throw fits because they have no legitimate answer to questions like these. If, however, you do haver a cogent, well thought out, logical answer, I'd like to hear it.

I think you are mixing up "sex" and "gender." Being xx or xy is sex. You can't change your sex. You are born with the equipment you are born with. You can trade in your equipment, but you are still xx or xy.

Gender is something completely different. It's what you identify as and includes the social, psychological, cultural and behavioral aspects.

a reply to: Hecate666

I completely feel the same. Dirty. Even as a little girl I was offended on a level I couldn't yet understand when I saw men in drag.

a reply to: CanadianLoudMouth

That's semantics. Gender is defined by sex. At any rate, you just underscore the doubts expressed in my question. If "gender" is "something you identify as," and is not dependent upon your "sex," then why would mutilating your equpiment affirm you gender?

Your answer just leaves more questions. Attempting to change one's sex by altering one's physical equpiment (and this is exactly what they are trying to do) tells me that sex and gender are, indeed, inextricably linked, that they are one and the same, and the people who claim otherwise then want to mutilate their sex organs are confused and believing a lie.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: incoserv

A legitimate answer.

Since March 2020 this is exactly what I have seen happening the world over.

I have a theory that ties this into uptick in general psychological and emotional instability that we see across society. This demands that most people - those who won't buck the narrative - live in a constant state of cognitive dissonance. Now, whawt is cognitive dissonance if not simply lying to one's self?

Look at the physiological effect that the smallest of lies has on the human body and mind in the context of a lie dectector test. Even something small, like intentionally lying about your name, registeres a physiological effect. Now, imagin having to convince yourself of big lies in order to fit into the narrative, then having to repeat those lies to yourself on a daily basis. What physiological and psycological effect would that have?

a reply to: incoserv

There is a definitive definition of male and female friend.

Female x-ray shows birth canal. Males are born without, and x-ray confirm.

From there..who knows what can happen to...people?

a reply to: incoserv

I think it's about happiness. When someone feels a certain way in their mind/soul/consciousness, when they look at themselves in a mirror naked and don't see that reflected it makes them unhappy.
Same reason some get plastic surgery when everyone around them tells them they don't need it. Lots of plastic surgeries are done very well and not considered mutilation. Like noise jobs and chin jobs.

I say let them be happy. It doesn't hurt me and I don't believe it hurts society ether. In fact I think it's better for society to be happy, free, and have choices and control over our bodies appearance.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: incoserv

I think it's about happiness. When someone feels a certain way in their mind/soul/consciousness, when they look at themselves in a mirror naked and don't see that reflected it makes them unhappy.
Same reason some get plastic surgery when everyone around them tells them they don't need it. Lots of plastic surgeries are done very well and not considered mutilation. Like noise jobs and chin jobs.

I say let them be happy. It doesn't hurt me and I don't believe it hurts society ether. In fact I think it's better for society to be happy, free, and have choices and control over our bodies appearance.

thats, literally , a mental illness.... why not let the bulimics binge and purge?

because playing into a mental illness only hurts the one you are trying to help.

a reply to: Another_Nut

Exactly!

Mental asylums are full of.people.who think they are something that they are not. That used to be a criteria for mental illness.

On the other hand, trying to change something that doesn't exist is, as well.

:

It’s because those people are mentally ill. It’s as simple as that. They are wrong. a reply to: incoserv

a reply to: incoserv
Curiosity wonders if your “legitimate question” is even open to legitimate answers or if your genuine intention is just opening up another platform for people to express ill-informed and baseless attacks on trans people with the broadest possible brush?

I will try to address possible answers to your proposed paradox but I anticipate the depth and nuance of my response may exceed your capacity or willingness to consider or understand and my ability to effectively communicate through this medium?

Your first assumption that “gender is a social construct” assumes a basic premise that cannot go without a bit of unpacking or more clarity on what we consider the cultural, societal and stereotypical norms of gendered behaviors and presentations which have changed throughout history.

Indeed, certain aspect of “gender”, what we consider masculine and feminine, are social constructs without definitive hard links to biology or anatomy with most being subjectively evaluated by the observer. Powdered wigs, high heels and frilly blouses were once considered the epitome of sophisticated and desirable masculinity for example but in modern Western society the opposite is true and mostly based on stereotypes that truly are socially constructed but there are and have always been exceptions and to a certain extent, these behaviors, attributes and presentations are performative in nature rather than biologically driven. However, I am not saying there aren’t some biological predispositions and underpinning s to several aspects of gendered behaviors, roles and presentations that do innately contribute to the concept of what we think of as a person’s “gender as being masculine of feminine.

Discounting reproductive roles for a moment and the notion that gender is how we advertise our sexuality, social roles and the cultural norms of behavior and presentation are all things we subjectively associate with stereotypes programmed into us from the time we are born or as the rhyme says, little boys are made up of snips and snails and puppy dogs' tails, little girls are made up of sugar and spice, and everything nice” and pink is for girls and blue is for boys and so on but obviously, not everyone falls into black or white categories.

Everyone has their own sense of where they fit into this picture often without even consciously realizing it. What man hasn’t thought about not doing something they thought was too feminine or cringed when told they do something “like a girl” and the inverse is true – what women hasn’t given thought to doing something they thought would be considered too masculine or unladylike? The truth is we all are of a mix of the masculine and feminine, a yin and a yang if you will. Some of these things have been ingrained into us but yet some are not because sexuality and reproductive roles do play a part so as you can see, things aren’t as simplistic as “gender is a social construct”. Humans are a lot more complicated than you give them credit for.

How we perceive our own gender and how others may perceive it may differ in some rare cases, this can cause great conflict and distress and since one’s own sense of being a man, woman, boy or girl is the fundamental basis of personality and interaction with the world around us and when this mismatch is too great or debilitating solutions are sought for relief. For some, this need may be satiated by wearing the clothing of or utilizing social aspects of the opposite gender. Others may need more comprehensive steps to bring the mind and flesh into alignment by modifying secondary sexual characteristics through hormone treatments and breast reduction or augmentation to facilitate not only one’s resolution to internal conflicts but how they are perceived by others in the outside world as well i.e. through socially transitioning. For some, this is enough. It is much easier to be perceived and treated like a man or a woman when you physically resemble one. There is also a misconception that genital surgery is common. It is not and studies have shown that maybe only around 12% of those falling under the “transgender umbrella” pursue this option which is simply a more extreme or complete solution for those that can’t find relief and resolution through lesser means.

As to you contradiction or paradox a direct answer is elusive but your premise is based on transgender activist ideology that says physical attributes do not define one’s gender but I think you are taking this too literally. In the real world, XX and XY are meaningless as we are not attracted to chromosomes but by personality, behaviors and apparent physical and sexual characteristics some which are based on sociocultural stereotypes and some which are not.

In the end, let’s just say it is complicated and leave it at that.

Now I too expect nothing less than the “regular crowd of trolls” to attack me with their predictable responses so I am likely not to engage further, however if as you say, one wishes to reply with “cogent, well thought out and logical” dialog, I may reconsider?

a reply to: AdifferentOpinion

I have not yet seen an answer that satisfies me.

originally posted by: incoserv
a reply to: AdifferentOpinion

I have not yet seen an answer that satisfies me.

You mean one that confirms what you already believe?

For the sake of discussion, why don't you try answering your own question or are you worried it might get picked apart? Maybe reframing it would help?

From what I understand, your confusion stems from some claiming that anatomy doesn’t matter while at the same time some change their anatomy because it does matter? This lack of understanding on your part I think is viewing the trans community as some type of unified monolithic entity or hive mind that all thinks the same and follows the same playbook rather than unique individuals, each with their own path and story.

The “normal” trans people I know and have known mostly find the rhetoric of trans activism abhorrent, highly annoying and generally ridiculous and like any extremist faction, be that the far left or far right or whatever, the whole situation has been wildly blown out of proportion in the media because divisiveness and conflicts gets clicks and you’ve been sucked into the madness of their game plan or why else would less than 1% of the population have such power to live rent free in your head?

Gender and identity are two different things. Gender is a scientific condition determined by factual examination. Identity is a social construct. If you try to make your entire identity around your gender you are not much of a person, just a set of chromosomes. Your identity should be, and for most people is, far more than just their gender.

What I don't understand is why people who were completely incapable of accepting themselves as they were born can get so upset with other people who are incapable, or unwilling, to accept who they now claim to be. Why should I accept you when you couldn't even accept yourself?

originally posted by: incoserv

originally posted by: greendust
If you want to see what gender affirming looks like, go ahead and search on google post operation pics and video. What I have seen doesn't look very helpful at all.

Yeah, I've seen a few of those photographs. Stuff of nightmares.

Indeed, totally gross.

originally posted by: Another_Nut

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: incoserv

I think it's about happiness. When someone feels a certain way in their mind/soul/consciousness, when they look at themselves in a mirror naked and don't see that reflected it makes them unhappy.
Same reason some get plastic surgery when everyone around them tells them they don't need it. Lots of plastic surgeries are done very well and not considered mutilation. Like noise jobs and chin jobs.

I say let them be happy. It doesn't hurt me and I don't believe it hurts society ether. In fact I think it's better for society to be happy, free, and have choices and control over our bodies appearance.

thats, literally , a mental illness.... why not let the bulimics binge and purge?

Because it can kill? It's suicidal?

What if you're just a gay male?
Never thought I was a woman.

Did a few drag-shows in my time.

Gayle - Polarii (now they want to document it).

How nice to "varda your old eek again".

Here comes betty-bangles (the cops).

originally posted by: incoserv


If one's physical attributes do not define one's gender and one can be whatever one wants or feels regardless of what their genetic and physical makeup are;

You are not the body, someone once said.

Things are not what they seem, someone once said.

Think twice when you think someone is looking good or bad. There are things not of this world.