Do you have any question about *Jihad* ???

Originally posted by fledgling666

if Jihad is a struggle (which i've always heard is the correct translation), isn't it inferred that it is internal? always meaning some sort of self conflict? does this mean that the word has been used incorrectly by both sides of this war on terrorism? even used incorrectly by Osama and the others?

Yes. As most religious people do, escpecially fundamentalists.

Originally posted by Islam

Hi
HOW you want Palestinians to stop killing Israilies if their lands are occupied by them ?????
When Palestinians will have houses to live in their lands, then they will not touch any Israeli.
Dear Judah:
Palestine is for Arab. But you see Arabs are living in tents and the jews who came from Romania, Russia, Hungary, Bulgaria, etc are living in houses.
Do you think we have no love to our homelands???????????????
Do you think Palestinians are like flies and fleas to sit like idiots in tent and not fighting those who oppressed them and kicked them from their lands ????????
Are you going to hug and kiss a man who came and kicked you from your house and farm and makes you to live in tents and then he killed your brother and raped your sister???????????????????????
Animals themselves will fight against such occupiers so what about humans???????????????????????
What that mean ,, that the filthy pig Bush is having nightmares about Iran and leaving Israel to have 200 nuclear bomb that can destroy ever atom in this planet?????????????????????????????????????????

Look by your mind dear brother. Muslims governed Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and many other countries for centuries and till now all the churches that was built before Muhammad is still as it is because it is PROHIBITTED to kill an innocent Christian. Muhammad said” Harming a nonMuslim (who is not fighting) is like harming me”

My Islamic friend. You seem to be lacking in some fundamental facts. Since you are Syrian I understand this since you are in a dictatorial, fascist regime and are fed lies from the morning to night I will forgive you.

Where you aware of Syrian atrocirties in Lebanon? here are two links for you:

www.2la.org...
www.2la.org...

By the way Muslims destroy churches and synagauges everywhere. Following the Israeli war of Independance Jordan Destroyed over 40 synaguages in East Jerusalem.

Now I would like to clarify things. When you tallk about claims of Israel stealing lands are you refering to Israel as stolen lands or the West Bank or Gaza? My guess is both.

My Father immigrated to Israel from Iran in 1949. He lived in a shack with 2 sisters, parents and another family!!! they slept on the floor!!!!! KNow the facts first!
Kill brother, rape sister!! Nice claims - no proof - only lies.

Palestinians lived better (higher standard of living) under Israeli 'occupation' than under Palestinian rule. Palestinian reporters were beaten by the Palestinian forces for saying this and Arafat defended the action.

You contradict yourself when you say"
it is PROHIBITTED to kill an innocent Christian. Muhammad said” Harming a nonMuslim (who is not fighting) is like harming me”

Muslims killed thousands of non-combatants in Israel alone. Now lets add in Lebanon (see www.lebaneseforces.org... ), Sudan ( blog.rajanr.com... ), Iraq, Iran (My ancestors left Masshad, Iran after a riot that claimed over 30 Jews and forced conversions to Islam - Most of the converts practiced Judaism in secret for over a century before 'coming out of the closet').

You need to get your facts straight.

Sorry posted twice

[edit on 5/4/05 by JudahMaccabbi]

All the same at its roots. Anyone who is not of the religion of the area is an "outsider" and must be absorbed or eliminated. It goes back to the time of pre-religion, tribal exercises.
It disturbs me that in an era global knowledge, most of the worlds population still clings to thoughts of deities, even singular ones as Allah, Jehovah, God of Abraham, etc.
Were there good men of enlightened humanitarian concepts? Indeed! Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, etc. They brought us from an age of paganism and shamanism that required human sacrifices into a world of acceptance and cohabitation within a guideline of humane treatment.
Unfortunately, mankind carried over thoughts of a divine guidance to their principles and created political-religious structures to justify their actions.

If you're a creationist under any religious structure, don't bother reading further.

Every religion has its creation myth, from Aboriginal Dreamtime, Hindi gods spewing forth life: Cherokee spirits to Garden of Eden. Many cultures even profess a ruler directly descended from a god....ever hear of Hirohito?
Accepting that man is not so removed from nature and the rest of life on this planet, two powers originated that controlled everyday life: Strength and Intellect. Strength is easy to consider, the strongest survives. Explains a lot in nature where younger, stronger replaces the old. Intellectual development can be seen today, in gorilla that signs, Japanese monkeys that float chaff from food, etc. Learned or discovered methodologies that signify intelligence.

In our evolution, or cognizance if you prefer, natural phenomena which strength nor intellect could control nor explain led to arcane, extra-human explanations which developed into beliefs. Eventually, intellect divided into reasoning and the unexplainable....hence religion.

The creation of an "afterlife" is simply an extention of the unexplainable, dating back thousands of years prior to any of the "modern" religions. Strength and intellect could control the tribe (life), but what of death and after that? Some promise "honorable war" (Celtic), an eternity free of pain and sorrow (Christianity), virgins (Islam), etc. etc. It all seems peculiar to me that most all ancient and modern religions are male serving or dominated.

Reality? One of two. Either the matter of the universe will keep expanding indefinately, losing all energy until even electrons stop orbiting nucleii ( I find this one highly unlikely) or eventually all matter will recolesce to a singularity (matter hates a void). Either way, kick back, relax, it's billions of years from now.

Palestine had been since 1516 part of the Ottoman Empire, in 1917 the UK took it from Turkey. There was during the British era a massive influx of European Jews to Palestine, laying claim on the land. This resulted into tensions between Arabs, British rulers and Jews. All sides committed attrocities.

Ok. You said what happened in 1516 and 1917.

Why you didn’t mention what happened in 1918 when the British minister Belfour give the Jews who were in east Europe to come to Palestine?

Why you didn’t mention what happened in 1948 when the Israeli troops (May God vanish them) killed thousands of us and made massacres that is not mentioned. Why not and Bush is the stinky slave of the Jews.

Blebbor. Look to any statistic.
You will know that the lives Palestinians lost are multiplied hundreds of times of what Israeli lost.
You will know that the homes Palestinians lost are multiplied hundreds of times of what Israeli lost.
And Finally.

WHY the boys who are stoning the Israeli’s tremendous tank are Terrorist!
And Israel which has 200 nuclear bombs that would end the life on Earth is peaceful?

It is really what prophet Muhammad said, “The day of Judgment will not come until all nations will be against Muslims from all sides as lions surround their prey from all sides”
And he said, “The day of Judgment will not come until you fight the Jews and you will win.”

And even if he didn’t say that. THE TRUTH WILL WIN.

Basically, Jihad is a philosopical topic, whereas you have to find yourself, and release you from the nutshell of ignorance most people are living in. The A4-format...

Thank you. I like to get confirmation on my knowledge, that most people are ignorant dweeps that instead of finding sollution, by knowledge, by experience, by observation and contemplating of their own minds, they go out and make disagreement with others. Becoming destructive nihilists using the ultimate low, the religion (any religion!) to point finger to others, to gain control and create fundamentalism, which invokes fear in innocent.

Assalamu Alaykum.
I think you are among our Shiia Muslims brother.
Any how, thank you very much for crossing by.

Dear Islam,

fist of all, maybe you can tell us your name, "Dear Islam" sounds like "Dear God" to me - , so iam Georgi and here is my question:

1/ If the US/Israel is invading Iran

- what would be the consequences for your culture, and, it will be Djihad, do you think that muslims all over Middle East would come to Iran and fight against "The Evil"? I'am specially interested in the psichologie, not in the
military situation of Iran, witch was discussed many times.

- Hypo.: The US atacks Iran with 5 alied countrys - what would be the consequences to this 5 countrys after and in time of the war?

Thats for now, just wanna hear your opinion as an Muslim living in Syria - thanks.

- I am not the responsible for declaring Jihad or not. But I think that if the head of terror “Bush” declare his “Jihad” on Iran, the same scenario will happen in Iraq. That means, more people to be killed, more children to be orphan, and more hating Americans will gain.
- I think (in my opinion) that if USA attacked 5 vcountries. Then there will be WWIII. Because people are not fleas under Bush’s shoe.

Again this is (my opinion).

means that Muhammad was regretful for waging the war he had just returned from? is waging war the (hawa) WRONG DESIRE?

waging war and (nafs) self conflict are the Biggest Jihads that can take place within a Muslim?

if Jihad is a struggle (which i've always heard is the correct translation), isn't it inferred that it is internal? always meaning some sort of self conflict? does this mean that the word has been used incorrectly by both sides of this war on terrorism? even used incorrectly by Osama and the others?

I am very sorry sir. But I didn’t understand what you mean by (does this mean that the word has been used incorrectly by both sides of this war on terrorism?)
What are the two sides?




Dear Judah:

I know that you are a Jew from your name. And before I start you have to know that I am not against Judaism of Jews. I am against the criminal Jews.

Regard of what you said about Syria in Lebanon. I have several points.

1. Why did Syria entered Lebanon? Isn’t that was to help them against Israelies who did the massacres in Lebanon? Read here and get an idea about the “Peaceful Israelies” in Lebanon!!!!
Read and see what they did in Qana
leb.net...
www.informationclearinghouse.info...
tyros.leb.net...

Read and see what they did in Sabra and Shatila
www.indictsharon.net...
Do you want more?

2. If some nasty Syrian troops did what your page said that doesn’t mean Syrian government is like that.

3. Here are some of the massacres that Israel did to Palestine:
www.revisionisthistory.org...
www.soundofegypt.com...

If you want, I have tens of links.
So brother ,,,, Read well and notice who is fed of lies since he was born.

Regarding of what some bad Muslims did in Lebanon.
That is wrong and against Islam and they will be punished by Allah.




Dear AlphaMan:

Thankyou for crossing by. Regarding the expanding of the Universe, God mentioned that in the Quran 1400 years ago when no one had any idea about the cosmos. And some western scientists declare that Quran is from God.
Read here.
www.islam-guide.com...

[edit on 5-4-2005 by ADVISOR]

[edit on 5-4-2005 by ADVISOR]

Welcom islam, I'm curious to a period in the 5 or so months prior to 9/11, and even after 9/11, were there any rumors/ reports/ news gossip of human rights violations in indonesia by Contractors of Exxon mobile.?

As I was reading your posts on part of the jihad reasonings, you basically said anyone who harms a muslim, is subject to similar treatment. The reason I'm asking this is because in June of 2001, there was a lawsuite filed against Exxon Mobile, for autrocities against the people of Aceh, Indonesia.

Could this be spun into a reason to go on a jihad against Contractors in islamic lands?


The following is from The International Labor Rights Fund Website:
www.laborrights.org
Then you have to go to "Current Projects" > "Exxon Mobile: Abuses against Aceh, Indonesia"
(Sorry i don't have a direct link but they all are jsut the main page domain in the http bar and don't know how to link em)

ExxonMobil: www.laborrights.org
How the Company is Linked with Indonesian Military Killings, Torture and other Severe Abuse in Aceh, Indonesia
In the past decade alone, ExxonMobil has extracted some $40 billion from its operations in Aceh, Indonesia, leaving in its wake a legacy of death, destruction and environmental damage.

There have been credible reports dating back several years that Exxon Mobil Corporation, along with its predecessor companies, Mobil Oil Corporation and Mobil Oil Indonesia (collectively "Exxon Mobil"), hired military units of the Indonesian national army to provide "security" for their gas extraction and liquification project in Aceh, Indonesia. Members of these military units regularly have perpetrated ongoing and severe human rights abuses against local villagers, including murder, rape, torture, destruction of property and other acts of terror. ExxonMobil apparently has taken no action to stop this violence, and instead, reportedly has continued to finance the military and to provide company equipment and facilities that have been used by the Indonesian military to perpetrate and literally cover up (in the form of mass graves) these criminal acts.

*Note: There is even a very interesting .PDF file on the exxon section titled "State Department Opinon on Exxon Litigation".

Hi silentonewolf.

What I understand from the article is that this Exxon company is harming people who might play a dangreous role against that buisness.

Right?
If so.

That has nothing at all to do with Jihad.
Jihad is a war against enemies who are trying to occupy your land, force you to leave your religion, or preventing you from spreading Islam.

And again, Jihad cannot be declared by a normal guy. It will not be declared unless if MOST known Muslim scholars are agreed to declare Jihad against a nation or a region.
And currently, the only place that Jihad is declared in by MOS scholars is Palestine.

What those Exxon people are doing is nothig but a buisness and it has nothing to do with Islam and I didn't even read any Arabic or Islamic word.

_________________________________________

Regarding to what you said,

“you basically said anyone who harms a muslim, is subject to similar treatment.”

What you said is 50/50 right.

+++In Islam, if some one harms Muslims in aregion or a country, he will be harmed immediately and that what ALL countries, tribes, etc do.

+++ BUT. If some one harm me as a Muslim, I am then between two decisions.

-The first one. To take your right.

God said: “And if ye punish, let your punishment be proportional to the wrong that has been done to you ….” [16 – 126]

That doesn’t mean to kill the one who killed your relative or to steal the one who steal you or to rape the one who raped you!!!

Instead, you will punish that guy by arresting him, calling the police, etc.
Or if some one beat you for example, then you can beat him while he is doing so because you are defending yourself.


-The second one. To forgive.

God said: “Nor can Goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate!
And no one will be granted such goodness except those who exercise patience and self-restraint,- none but persons of the greatest good fortune.” [41 - 34].


I hope that I answered your question.
If not. Please ask

Originally posted by Islam
Jihad is a war against enemies who are trying to occupy your land, force you to leave your religion, or preventing you from spreading Islam.

This is the problem of all religions, the need to spread. Not only are organized religions just another way to divide the same species, but they all aim to convert people and spread, it becomes highly competitive. People on all sides become so fanatical they see those who don't believe as they do as being evil and even deserving of death.

I do not wish to offend any of you religious folk, but it is so hard for me to comprehend the idea that primitive men thousands of years ago figured out, and defined, life's greatest mystery. To take stories handed down for thousands of years, to be absolute fact and to dictate the way you view yourselves and your family, how you treat others, and who you feel should die, is insane, IMO. Not that I believe there is no higher power or plane of existence, quite the contrary, but there's no need to name, define, and worship it. If the higher power were conscious on the level people believe, how can people for one second think there's ever justification in it's eyes to kill another living creature other than for food? The hypocrisy level on all sides is sky high.

Imagine a world where everybody realized the key was just to respect all living things, and work together regardless of personal religious beliefs, which should not be shared in a church or mosque before a priest or a cleric surrounded by strangers, but should be shared with family and loved ones. Imagine, instead of spending time in church or studying the quran, you could actually be spending meaningful time with your children or finding solutions to life's tangible problems. Imagine how many brilliant minds are devoted to studying ancient stories that would change the world if they were free from the chains and brainwashing of organized religion, chains they put on you from birth, in all parts of the world. I think organized religion is going to destroy mankind, most of these ancient stories blatantly admit they will. It becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy, interpretted by primitive men who told stories that still control the lives of many today, even though when somebody down the block tells a story, it's completely exagerrated and different when it reaches you. It's all about respect for all life, if everybody had it, and held god or allah inside, earth would be a beautiful place to live life, and whom or whatever awaits in death could not be anything other than positive regardless if you "worshipped" it, or just knew and appreciated it was there.

Sorry, I always go ranting way off track.

My Jihad, or struggle, is against all organized religion causing, or being used as a scapegoat for, wars.



[edit on 5-4-2005 by 27jd]

For those who are wondering....

Originally posted by almasad
السلام عليكم
كيف حالك ياخوي اسلام
انا زييك مسلم
علمهم عن الاسلام انة دين سماحة ويسر
وان ابن لادن ملفق من قبل CIA
BYE

The peace on you
How prevented you [yaaxwy] Islam
I your attires is Muslim
Their flag about the Islam [aant] debt of generosity and lefts
That son of Laden is fabricated before CIA
BYE

Originally posted by Islam
مرحباً أخي المسد .. كم سررت بمرورك على الموضوع

هذا ما أحاول فعله أخي الكريم

فالإسلام دين يسر و سماحة سواء أشاءت إدارة الخنزير بوش و قنواته الفضائية الكاذبة أم لا

فادعي لي .. سألتك بالله أن تدعو لي أن يوفقني الله فيما أقوم به.

و لك خالص تحياتي

Hello brothers [aalmsd]. How much passing rejoiced in your on the subject: D

This what his verb tries brothers generous

So the Islam simple debt and generosity of generosity whether ['ashaa't] administration of the pig Bush and his channels his space channels untrue is mother

So claimed for me. Asked you in God to calls for me to reconciles me God while straightens in him.

Pure lac of lac my salutations

*******


TRANSLATION from SYSTRANS at www.systransoft.com...

Perhaps our Arabic speaking friends could make the necessary corrections to the machine translation and refrain from leaving the rest of us out of the conversation?

Thanks in advance Islam and Almasad.
[edit on 5-4-2005 by ADVISOR]

[edit on 4/5/2005 by Gools]

Gools,

how accurate is that?

I plugged in his sig, and got
"['ilhy] of you is intentional and your satisfaction your bruise is requested"




















[edit on 6-4-2005 by spacedoubt]

Gools
Hello brother
The translation is wrong

Originally posted by Islam
Why you didn’t mention what happened in 1918 when the British minister Belfour give the Jews who were in east Europe to come to Palestine?

Why you didn’t mention what happened in 1948 when the Israeli troops (May God vanish them) killed thousands of us and made massacres that is not mentioned. Why not and Bush is the stinky slave of the Jews.

You seem to forget that the Arabs armies from something like 6 countries (May god vanquish them to eternal hell) attacked Israel and requested that Arabs leave 'Palestine' so that they may push the Jews into the sea. Well, thank Allah, they didn't succeed.
You seem to willfully or unknowingly forget that Arabs massacred Jews as well.
As for Bush, may he live a long and happy life, he is the only president with enough balls to stand-up to terrorism and Arab aggression in a meaningful way.

WHY the boys who are stoning the Israeli’s tremendous tank are Terrorist!
And Israel which has 200 nuclear bombs that would end the life on Earth is peaceful?

Children stoning tanks are not terrorists. They are actors in the world arena for the Palestinian cause. I respect them. I do not respect those who shoot at Israeli soldiers from behind those children so that the Israeli are forced to inadvertantly shoot those children. Those gunmen who shoot at the soldiers from behind those children are TERRORISTS.

The fact that Israel has nuclear bombs and that Israel has not used them or that Arabs still exist is just proof that Israel is not as bad as you claim.

It is really what prophet Muhammad said, “The day of Judgment will not come until all nations will be against Muslims from all sides as lions surround their prey from all sides”
And he said, “The day of Judgment will not come until you fight the Jews and you will win.”

And even if he didn’t say that. THE TRUTH WILL WIN.

with all respect to Islam or as to prophecies as a whole. Prophesies have a tendency to be vague and explanatory only retroactively. The only thing I can definitely say is that Jews existed way before Islam and they will continue to exist long after Islam.

Dear Judah:

I know that you are a Jew from your name. And before I start you have to know that I am not against Judaism of Jews. I am against the criminal Jews.

Good then we see eye to eye. I am not against Muslims only criminal Muslims.

Regard of what you said about Syria in Lebanon. I have several points.

1. Why did Syria entered Lebanon? Isn’t that was to help them against Israelies who did the massacres in Lebanon? Read here and get an idea about the “Peaceful Israelies” in Lebanon!!!!
Read and see what they did in Qana
leb.net...
www.informationclearinghouse.info...
tyros.leb.net...

You lack the facts my friend. Syria entered Lebanon long before Qana in 1978. The Qana incident occurred in 1996. Try to make some sense when you attempt to make a point.

The incident in Qana was an artillery bombing which was directed against Hizbullah positions. Hezbullah, with the help of the Syrians, bombed civilian areas in Israel from a location adjacent to the facility in Qana housing the refugees who were killed. That is why the Qana incident occurred. So complain to your leaders for that incident since they have some responsibility in the matter.

Read and see what they did in Sabra and Shatila
www.indictsharon.net...
Do you want more?

The massacre in Sabra and Shatilla were Palestinians being massacred by ARABS not Israelis and not with Israeli knowledge.

2. If some nasty Syrian troops did what your page said that doesn’t mean Syrian government is like that.

Again you are wrong. The Government is resposible for the Army who are responsible for the soldiers. Its called accountability. The soldiers were under orders of the Army under the order of the government.

Since you are in a dictatoral country with controlled media I will excuse you for your ignorance of the truth. It is not your fault.

3. Here are some of the massacres that Israel did to Palestine:
www.revisionisthistory.org...

And as final proof for the lies you are fed.
The Jenin 'massacre' NEVER occured as with many other 'massacres' claimed by Arabs. Don't fall for the lies your government feeds you.
www.upi.com...

If you want, I have tens of links.
So brother ,,,, Read well and notice who is fed of lies since he was born.

OK but make sure they are TRUE.

Regarding of what some bad Muslims did in Lebanon.
That is wrong and against Islam and they will be punished by Allah.

Punished or given 72 virgins in the afterlife? I am a bit confused here?

Originally posted by almasad
Gools
Hello brother
The translation is wrong

Then correct it. Don't play games.

Dear 27jd:

There is different between.

Spreading Islam and forcing people to become Muslims.
The first one is duty on every single Muslim, but forcing any one to become a Muslim is completely prohibited and God mentioned that many times in the Quran. For examples:

1. “There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.” [002.256]
2. “Therefore do remind (O Muhammad), for you are only a reminder. You are not a watcher over them” [088.022]
3. “Therefore do remind, surely reminding does profit. The admonition will be received by those who fear (Allah) But it will be avoided by those most unfortunate ones” [087.010]
And many other verses.

Dear Gools:

Thank you for the translation that full of grammar mistakes. But the overall meaning is right and maybe Almasad didn’t understand the translation because of its difficulty.
But this to know how Arabic is completely different than English.
And thank you for the site.

Dear Judah:

It is very hard for you as a Jew to know what your people done to us.
But the 200 nuclear bombs that Israel has and are eligible to vanish earth.
And the hundreds of massacres that Israel done to Muslims for no sin except that they want to live in their land.
WILL appear to the world one day.
And remember, if you are with the terrorist Sharon and his followers, ALL dictators, criminals, killers and all their deeds will stay in the History for ever and they will gain the hateness of creatures and God. And remember what’ve done to Hitler, Saddam, Mussolini, Lenin, Stalin, and all other criminals.
Oneday, your beloved Sharon will be mentioned among them.

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Gools,

how accurate is that?

I have no idea.

It's the only translator I could find that does Arabic. Babelfish doesn't have that feature.

Posting in another language is not only impolite to other members it prevents the mods from knowing whether or not the Terms and Conditions are being respected.
.

Originally posted by Islam
Dear 27jd:

There is different between.

Spreading Islam and forcing people to become Muslims.
The first one is duty on every single Muslim, but forcing any one to become a Muslim is completely prohibited and God mentioned that many times in the Quran.

That was my point, you see it as a duty to spread one version, one explanation of god and it's wishes, while others feel they have the same duty to spread their version or explanation of god and it's wishes. That's where it becomes competitive, and inevitably violent, it's just the nature of things. The problem is many see their religion as the single most important part of their lives and naturally see those who don't share it as misguided, and evil, because they are going against what they believe god wants. But the one thing I know god, in whatever form it exists, does not want, is for people to kill in it's name or to enforce what people believe it wishes. Any being so powerful is fully capable of applying it's will, IMO.

Just last week I read in the news that a Muslim clergy called for a Jihad to take back the Islamic religion from the radicals that has made the Islamic religion and Muslim all look like war-mongering, Western-hating fanatics.

Well, I don't know. Time will have to tell.

I believe in Jesus Christ myself, but I don't have any trouble or reluctance to go to war with religious fanatics from the Christian sector of religion.

Peace is peace and war is war in my eyes.

If people want peace, good.

If people want war, then that's fine also.

Originally posted by cargo

Originally posted by almasad
Gools
Hello brother
The translation is wrong

Then correct it. Don't play games.

I think the game started with this threads' the opening post.