Do you have any question about *Jihad* ???

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posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by Islam
Dear 27jd:

There is different between.

Spreading Islam and forcing people to become Muslims.
The first one is duty on every single Muslim, but forcing any one to become a Muslim is completely prohibited and God mentioned that many times in the Quran. For examples:


Dear Islam:

I read from your post that everything Muslim nations do is forbidden according to Islam. Killing non-combitants is forbidden.
Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran sponsors terrorists who kill non-combatants even in these times. Bin Ladin is hailed as a Muslim hero for 9/11, Palestinians danced in the streets and he has an immense following.

Forced conversions is forbidden yet under the Taliban regime and the Sudanese regime forced conversions occur.

Something seems awfully wrong with Islam if Islamic states such as Iran and Sudan are doing these things.



Dear Judah:

It is very hard for you as a Jew to know what your people done to us.
But the 200 nuclear bombs that Israel has and are eligible to vanish earth.
And the hundreds of massacres that Israel done to Muslims for no sin except that they want to live in their land.
WILL appear to the world one day.
And remember, if you are with the terrorist Sharon and his followers, ALL dictators, criminals, killers and all their deeds will stay in the History for ever and they will gain the hateness of creatures and God. And remember what’ve done to Hitler, Saddam, Mussolini, Lenin, Stalin, and all other criminals.
Oneday, your beloved Sharon will be mentioned among them.


OK I heard your blanket statements. You repeated 200 Nukes several times, massacres several times and you make it seem like one day Jews came to the middle east and killed the peace loving Arabs for fun.

I know that is what you have been told. So the stories are lacking accuracy and many of them are blatant lies but that is what you have been told for ages. In addition this is the message I am trying to pass onto you.


One question I would like for you to answer:

Where do you think people have a more accurate picture of the world? In a country where the press is only that of the government (no free press)? or in a country where the press is free and anyone can say what they want?

Answer me that question and we will take it step by step from there.




posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 09:01 PM
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That was my point, you see it as a duty to spread one version, one explanation of god and it's wishes, while others feel they have the same duty to spread their version or explanation of god and it's wishes. That's where it becomes competitive, and inevitably violent, it's just the nature of things. The problem is many see their religion as the single most important part of their lives and naturally see those who don't share it as misguided, and evil, because they are going against what they believe god wants. But the one thing I know god, in whatever form it exists, does not want, is for people to kill in it's name or to enforce what people believe it wishes. Any being so powerful is fully capable of applying it's will, IMO.


Well,

That is something NO one can stop it.

If you believe and like something (even if not religion), you will try to convince people about it.

For example, American culture sees that it is “ok” to marry a woman that lost her virginity. But Arabs, on the other hand, see that as a big and huge problem and social mistake. (And that has nothing to do with religion because Islam allows you to marry a woman that lost her virginity).
BUT you see both sides trying to convince each other that THEY are right.







Just last week I read in the news that a Muslim clergy called for a Jihad to take back the Islamic religion from the radicals that has made the Islamic religion and Muslim all look like war-mongering, Western-hating fanatics.

Well, I don't know. Time will have to tell.

I believe in Jesus Christ myself, but I don't have any trouble or reluctance to go to war with religious fanatics from the Christian sector of religion.

Peace is peace and war is war in my eyes.

If people want peace, good.

If people want war, then that's fine also.


- Muslims also believe in Jesus Christ
www.harunyahya.com...

- What you said finally was very nice and very fair and what I really want to say.
If your enemy started a war on you as Israelis started a war on Arab (Christians and Muslims) in 1948 and they killed thousands and made tens of massacres, then we have to fight them. Otherwise, the cats is better than us. Because cats fight against their babies if they are under attack.




Dear Islam:

I read from your post that everything Muslim nations do is forbidden according to Islam. Killing non-combitants is forbidden.
Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran sponsors terrorists who kill non-combatants even in these times. Bin Ladin is hailed as a Muslim hero for 9/11, Palestinians danced in the streets and he has an immense following.

Forced conversions is forbidden yet under the Taliban regime and the Sudanese regime forced conversions occur.

Something seems awfully wrong with Islam if Islamic states such as Iran and Sudan are doing these things.


But why you just look to the Muslim terrorists like BinLaden?

Is Hitler Muslim?
Is Mussolini Muslim?
Is Lenin Muslim?
Is Stalin Muslim?
Is Sharon Muslim?

Brother,,,, Terrorists are from all religions and nations.

And why are you just mentioning the Muslim countries?

Is their a democracy in Korea?
Is their a democracy in Rwanda?
Is their a democracy in Burundi?
Is their a democracy in Laos?

Non of these countries have democracy and all these countries have NO Muslims in it.
So, is that a proof that Christianity ,Buddhism, Taoism, etc. are terrorist religions too?

And also, why are you not looking at the many rebellions other than Muslims?

What about the Christian Grang in Sudan?
What about Ita group in Spain?
What about the tens of drug groups in Latin America?

Why are you just focusing on Muslim bad people as if all the other people beside Muslims are peaceful and good?




OK I heard your blanket statements. You repeated 200 Nukes several times, massacres several times and you make it seem like one day Jews came to the middle east and killed the peace loving Arabs for fun.

I know that is what you have been told. So the stories are lacking accuracy and many of them are blatant lies but that is what you have been told for ages. In addition this is the message I am trying to pass onto you.


Don’t try to fool m and fool the reality.

Palestine is in the Middle East. Thus, it should be full of Arab NOT Bulgarian, Russian, Yiddish, Hungarian, and Romanian.
Say it … You came to build the kingdom of “god” that expand from Euphrates river in Syria to the Nile in Egypt.
Say it … You came under the permission of the British because you think that this is the land of Jews not the land of the “illiterates” as you call us.

Even if you try whatever you try, you CANNOT change the reality that what Jews killed from Arabs is multiplied hundreds and thousand of what Arabs killed from Jews.

And Thankyou very mush to Vanunu. That honest Jew who follow the commands of Moses and who expose Israel to ALL people as “the source of the massive destruction that has 200 nuclear bombs.”




One question I would like for you to answer:

Where do you think people have a more accurate picture of the world? In a country where the press is only that of the government (no free press)? or in a country where the press is free and anyone can say what they want?

Answer me that question and we will take it step by step from there.



I am giving you the information from the International broadcasting so don’t try to fool me again.

Are Muslims who said that Israel has 200 nuclear bombs or a JEW (Va’nunu)?
Are the pictures of massacres wrong and fabricated? And was it picked up by Muslims only?
Are the millions who go to street in Europe and many other places against Israel Muslims only?
Are the camps of Palestinians refuges who were kicked from Israel in Southern Syria, Lebanon and Jordan a myth or a reality?
Is their an intelligent or a donkey can say that Hungarians, Bulgarians, and Yiddish’s hiomeland is Palestine?

NOW … I want you to ANSWER.

WHY ISRAEL CAN HAVE 200 NUCLEAR BOMBS and IRAN CANNOT EVEN FERTILIZE THE URANIUM??????????????
Simply, because Israel want to govern the world.




posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 08:45 AM
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Islam, you are wrong.

terrorists all over the world are prosecuted, when caught, except, it seems, when they try to go into mainstream politics, such as Shin Fein in Ireland. Hitler was destroyed by American and Russian forces, mostly, but he was not a terrorist so much as a DICTATOR and murderer. he killed as many jews as he could, as well as other sorts of people he didn't like for various reasons, not by terrorizing them, but by simply murdering them. he is one of the most prolific mass murderers in the history of mankind, only bested, as far as i can tell, by Stalin. bin Laden is a completely different sort of person. he IS a terrorist by building an army to specifically attack civilian targets and by having them lay in secret until them time was right. he makes himself and his message larger by spreading fear rather than by militaristic action or simple murder.

israel:

the british owned the land. the british gave the land to the jews, end of story, the land belongs to the jews, whether you like it or not.

.................................................................

you said, Jihad means "struggle"

to struggle is to strive for change or to keep what you have and where you are. terrorism is not a struggle for change, it is a loss of self control, it is childish and it is not honorable in the least. it is time to end all that and move toward peace. that is where the real struggle will be, that is where the real Jihad will be- trying to figure out how to live in peace after so many years of fighting over nothing.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 11:25 AM
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Don’t try to fool m and fool the reality.

Palestine is in the Middle East. Thus, it should be full of Arab NOT Bulgarian, Russian, Yiddish, Hungarian, and Romanian.

Arab and Jewish - You seem to forget that Jews where always in the Middle East WAY WAY before Islam ever existed. I myself am ISRAELI born, My mother Israeli Born, My father Iranian. We are Jews. Jerusalem had a JEWISH majority over 100 years. Your highjacking of the middle east by Arabs is itself a crime. Kurds, Beduins, Druze, Turks, Turkomans, Jews have all been in the middle east since time immemorial. Shame on you for being so arrogant and fascist as to even THINK that the middle east is a closed ARAB CLUB!!! And just to clear up the confusion a majority or half the Jewish population in Israel is Sephardic (including Mizrahi) Jews and not european Jews - Which means Jews from Arab lands. How does that fact sit with your concept of the world?


Say it … You came to build the kingdom of “god” that expand from Euphrates river in Syria to the Nile in Egypt.
Say it … You came under the permission of the British because you think that this is the land of Jews not the land of the “illiterates” as you call us.

We built Israel as a Jewish country for all its inhabitants. When the Arabs wished not to accept this - They created the Palestinian problem.
The kingdom of Israel was never from the Nile, but from what is now Gaza.
If we want to conquer the entire middle east why did we give back the Sinai? Why are we pulling out of Gaza? Your version of history has serious flaws that are called reality.



And Thankyou very mush to Vanunu. That honest Jew who follow the commands of Moses and who expose Israel to ALL people as “the source of the massive destruction that has 200 nuclear bombs.”

Are you referring to the commandment 'thou shalt not own nukes'?

Let me tell you this. I have a conspiracy theory. Israel has nukes but nukes are a weapon used for a deterrent. If no-one knows of Israel's nukes then there is no deterent- Therefore, the nukes are useless. In comes Venunu exposes the fact that Israel has nukes and PRESTO - Israel establishes its deterent force.
THINK ABOUT IT.



I am giving you the information from the International broadcasting so don’t try to fool me again.

IF that was true you would have known that the Jenin 'massacre' was a farce. You would have known that Qana resulted from mistargeting due to Hizbullahs use of civilian areas as a launching pad for Katusha rockets.


Are Muslims who said that Israel has 200 nuclear bombs or a JEW (Va’nunu)?

I answered this above.
Having nuclear bombs is not a crime. But developing nuclear bombs after signing the nonproliferating treaty as Iran did is a crime.


Are the pictures of massacres wrong and fabricated? And was it picked up by Muslims only?

Let me explain something to you. In Israel and the rest of the modern, developed world people have something called respect for the dead. This means that they do not splatter gruesome pictures of the carnage of war whenever the victims can be identified. It is disrepectful to the family of the dead. Therefore, Israel or for that matter all developed countries do not show such pictures. This is a difference in culture. Therefore you do not see many pictures of the slaughtered Jews. This does not mean that Arabs do not massacre Jews. They do - and they target the helpless civilians.
Yes, some of the stories you talk about ARE fabricated.


Are the millions who go to street in Europe and many other places against Israel Muslims only?

No Muslims aren't the only one against Israel. In all honesty I do not care what the Europeans think. They are brown-nosers who kiss up to Arabs for their oil. They also succeed in convincing some of their populace that the Jews and Israel are a problem. In England a poll taken showed that a large portion of the population think that Israel is the most dangerous country in the world. This is obviously rediculous but I think the BBC is to blame. Europe will have to deal with their sins in the future when they realize that demographically their countries will be overrunned by Muslims.


Are the camps of Palestinians refuges who were kicked from Israel in Southern Syria, Lebanon and Jordan a myth or a reality?

Ianswered this above - THe refugee problem is a problem created by the Arabs when they asked for the Arabs in Israel to leave so that they can push the Jews into the sea, They failed, by the will of Allah, and hence the refugee problem was created.


Is their an intelligent or a donkey can say that Hungarians, Bulgarians, and Yiddish’s hiomeland is Palestine?

I think that that whole statement is 'Donkey'ish since, as mentioned previously, Israel is mostly Sephardic Jews and not European Jews. In addition, Jews were in Israel before the 1900s and to top it all off Yiddish is a language and not a country.


NOW … I want you to ANSWER.

WHY ISRAEL CAN HAVE 200 NUCLEAR BOMBS and IRAN CANNOT EVEN FERTILIZE THE URANIUM??????????????
Simply, because Israel want to govern the world.

Is this one of those assenine Jews want to rule the world, Protocols of the Elders of Zion conspiracy theories.
I answered this question above Iran signed a nonproliferation treaty. Iran is an extremist Moslem coutry who supports international terrorist organizations (Hezbullah, Al-Qaida) and have vowed to destroy Israel. That is the reason Iran should NEVER be allowed to go nuclear.
No Israel doesn't want to rule the world- maybe Iraqn does though.






posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by fledgling666
terrorists all over the world are prosecuted, when caught, except, it seems, when they try to go into mainstream politics, such as Shin Fein in Ireland.

Well, the USA performs a Legal version of Terrorism for decades - and were they Ever prosecuted by the International Court? I dont think so.

Word "terrorism" can have a very broad meaning, for example if you remember the Kosovo conflict crisis - first the Liberating Army of Kosovo was treated as a terrorist group by the USA; but later they were supprted and armed and helped by the USA. Just like Osama was, and Saddam.

USA has founded several "local guerrillas" in Central and South America during the Reagan years - the so called Death Squads - they all were breaking the International Law; and were they ever prosecuted? I dont think so.

So what real importance does the Internatonal Court represent, if the same Laws do not apply do Everybody?

Like USA?

And Isreal?

Why doesnt the "so-concerned international community" do something about the Isreali nuclear fascilites - like Dimona reactor, that is already running 15 or 20 years above the limit? Ofcourse, the Isreal is under protection by the USA, and will not be investigated.

Why doesnt the "so-concerned international community" do something about the Endless Wars in Africa - but instead they just turn away?

[edit on 8/4/05 by Souljah]



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by Islam

Any other Question I am ready





Salut Islam! Welcome to ATS. This is wonderful. I really appreciate the opportunity to learn about what Muslims think and what the Qu'ran says. I've learned a lot already...and that's what I'm here to do! Thanks for sharing with us!

AL



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by GlobalDisorder
what branch of jihad do these finatics go off to think murdering civilians is in the name of Jihad?
and again, I apologise for my outburst!


[edit on 4-4-2005 by GlobalDisorder]



Its like the same branch of Christians or Jews that go around interpreting the Bible and Torah for their own purposes.

Religion is used world-wide for selfish purposes, not Godly ones. Or haven't you noticed?

You better settle down, buddy. We want to learn from this man and he is willing to share in a peaceful manner. Why don't we try that for a change instead of the attack stance.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 03:46 PM
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Why the people here always argues?



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by Islam
Well,

That is something NO one can stop it.

If you believe and like something (even if not religion), you will try to convince people about it.


I know. The problem is some on all sides take it too far, and too personal when somebody believes differently. I hope one day all people of earth will live peacefully as one, regardless of personal religious stances.



For example, American culture sees that it is “ok” to marry a woman that lost her virginity. But Arabs, on the other hand, see that as a big and huge problem and social mistake. (And that has nothing to do with religion because Islam allows you to marry a woman that lost her virginity).
BUT you see both sides trying to convince each other that THEY are right.


Well, a virgin is something sought after here in America as well, but women are given more freedom here and they're not looked at in such a negative light if they're not virgins, so they may be more rare here. But Arab or American, no man likes the thought of his lady having been with somebody before him. That's not east or west, it's the nature of the male species on earth. See, we're not so different after all.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 04:11 PM
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Islam, you are wrong.

terrorists all over the world are prosecuted, when caught, except, it seems, when they try to go into mainstream politics, such as Shin Fein in Ireland. Hitler was destroyed by American and Russian forces, mostly, but he was not a terrorist so much as a DICTATOR and murderer. he killed as many jews as he could, as well as other sorts of people he didn't like for various reasons, not by terrorizing them, but by simply murdering them. he is one of the most prolific mass murderers in the history of mankind, only bested, as far as i can tell, by Stalin. bin Laden is a completely different sort of person. he IS a terrorist by building an army to specifically attack civilian targets and by having them lay in secret until them time was right. he makes himself and his message larger by spreading fear rather than by militaristic action or simple murder.


Do you mean that Osama is a terrorist and Hitler is Not ?
If Osama killed 3000 innocents, then Hitler (the catholic) killed 60,000,000 person in WWI.
If Osama killed 3000 innocents, then Bush (the Christian) killed 100,000 in Iraq.
If Osama killed 3000 innocents, then Sharon (the Jew) killed not less than 10,000 Muslim.
If Osama killed 3000 innocents, then Milosofitch (the Christian) killed 7,000 Muslim in one day in Bosnia.
If Osama killed 3000 innocents, then Stalin (the communist) killed about 30,000 Russians who are against him.

Are all of those INNOCENTS and Osama in the Only terrorist?
OR SAY IT …

All of those are NOT Muslim BUT Osama is consider himself Muslim and thus he is the only criminal.

O Muhammad, you said nothing but the truth when said: “The day of Judgment will not start till all people will surround Muslims as lions surround their prey.”

And finally, give my sincere salutations to your “”peaceful”” leader (Sharon) who have 200 NUCLEAR BOMBS.





israel:

the british owned the land. the british gave the land to the jews, end of story, the land belongs to the jews, whether you like it or not.


This what losers say.





you said, Jihad means "struggle"

to struggle is to strive for change or to keep what you have and where you are. terrorism is not a struggle for change, it is a loss of self control, it is childish and it is not honorable in the least. it is time to end all that and move toward peace. that is where the real struggle will be, that is where the real Jihad will be- trying to figure out how to live in peace after so many years of fighting over nothing.


Could you please read what I said before you talk.

Did I say Osama is a real Muslim?
Did I say Osama’s Jihad is the Islamic Jihad?

I am giving you proves from the Quran. AND I DON’T CARE what Osama or other idiots would do in the name of Islam and Jihad.
DON’T JUDGE 1.5 BILLION PERSON BECAUSE OF SOME IDIOTS.

And one more thing to you because you CARE a lot about innocents.
Aren’t the children and women and olds who died in Qana, Sabra, Shatila, Deir Yaseen, etc. Are they innocents or terrorists?
You can call Sharon “the leader of peace” to answer you.
Good luck in advance.



Arab and Jewish - You seem to forget that Jews where always in the Middle East WAY WAY before Islam ever existed. I myself am ISRAELI born, My mother Israeli Born, My father Iranian. We are Jews. Jerusalem had a JEWISH majority over 100 years. Your highjacking of the middle east by Arabs is itself a crime. Kurds, Beduins, Druze, Turks, Turkomans, Jews have all been in the middle east since time immemorial. Shame on you for being so arrogant and fascist as to even THINK that the middle east is a closed ARAB CLUB!!! And just to clear up the confusion a majority or half the Jewish population in Israel is Sephardic (including Mizrahi) Jews and not european Jews - Which means Jews from Arab lands. How does that fact sit with your concept of the world?


I am NOT against the Jews to be in the middle east, simply because they are from that plases.

I am against killing hundred of thousands of innocents to establish a Jew government.
And I don’t see a different between that act and the act of Osama who want to establish an Islamic country.

Both are wrong and terrorists.




We built Israel as a Jewish country for all its inhabitants. When the Arabs wished not to accept this - They created the Palestinian problem.


Oh ! What a “peaceful” people you are.

When you came to Palestine, WAS IT EMPTY or WAS IT FULL OF VILLAGES AND CITIES OF ARABS?
Why these villages were destroyed?
Were they destroyed by earthquake? Or by some aliens from other galaxies? OR BY THE “PEACEFUL” JEWS??????????????

Jerusalem was full of Arab. How is it right now full of Jews??? Did those Arab evaporated? Or did they swollen by a huge crack? OR ARE THEY LIVING IN TENTS IN SYRIA, JORDAN, AND LEBANON?????????



Are you referring to the commandment 'thou shalt not own nukes'?

Let me tell you this. I have a conspiracy theory. Israel has nukes but nukes are a weapon used for a deterrent. If no-one knows of Israel's nukes then there is no deterent- Therefore, the nukes are useless. In comes Venunu exposes the fact that Israel has nukes and PRESTO - Israel establishes its deterent force.
THINK ABOUT IT.


Ya,,, I will think about it.
Israel has 200 NUCLEAR BOMBS that are USELESS.
What a joke.
Can you proof that.



IF that was true you would have known that the Jenin 'massacre' was a farce. You would have known that Qana resulted from mistargeting due to Hizbullahs use of civilian areas as a launching pad for Katusha rockets.


That what Israeli said BUT not what the WORLD said.

Read what BBC said
news.bbc.co.uk...
Read what Times said:
www.timesonline.co.uk...
Read what the Guardian British link said:
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.guardian.co.uk...

And finally look at the photos
www.palestinemonitor.org...
this.is...

Do you want the same proves about Qana, Sabra, Shatila, Der Yasin, etc.

Greeting to your peaceful leader Sharon.




Ianswered this above - THe refugee problem is a problem created by the Arabs when they asked for the Arabs in Israel to leave so that they can push the Jews into the sea, They failed, by the will of Allah, and hence the refugee problem was created.


Heh.
No dear peaceful man.

This is why refugee problem happened.
www.soundofegypt.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.indictsharon.net...

But one day, the owner of the land will come back to it.




Is this one of those assenine Jews want to rule the world, Protocols of the Elders of Zion conspiracy theories.
I answered this question above Iran signed a nonproliferation treaty. Iran is an extremist Moslem coutry who supports international terrorist organizations (Hezbullah, Al-Qaida) and have vowed to destroy Israel. That is the reason Iran should NEVER be allowed to go nuclear.
No Israel doesn't want to rule the world- maybe Iraqn does though.


IF  Iran is an extremist Moslem coutry who supports international terrorist organizations (Hezbullah, Al-Qaida) and have vowed to destroy Israel.

Then Isn’t Israel the same????

Israel also is an extremist JEW coutry who supports international terrorist massacres (Qana, Sabra, Jenin, Shatila, etc.) and have vowed to destroy Arab and Muslims.




Why doesnt the "so-concerned international community" do something about the Isreali nuclear fascilites - like Dimona reactor, that is already running 15 or 20 years above the limit? Ofcourse, the Isreal is under protection by the USA, and will not be investigated.

Why doesnt the "so-concerned international community" do something about the Endless Wars in Africa - but instead they just turn away?


God bless you Solouja.
You are saying the real thing and I hope Sharon’s followers will answer.



Salut Islam! Welcome to ATS. This is wonderful. I really appreciate the opportunity to learn about what Muslims think and what the Qu'ran says. I've learned a lot already...and that's what I'm here to do! Thanks for sharing with us!

AL


Thank you very much dear Alwayslearning for your reply in my post.

And it is good that you know what really Qur’an say about Jihad.

Allah bless you



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by Islam
Israel also is an extremist JEW coutry who supports international terrorist massacres (Qana, Sabra, Jenin, Shatila, etc.) and have vowed to destroy Arab and Muslims.



Caught you in a lie here Islam. There was never a "massacre" at Jenin, in fact the BBS retracted that story because it was simply not the truth.

As this thread grows, your mask slowly comes off and your true nature comes out. Your not fooling anyone here.

Maximu§





[edit on 053030p://555 by LA_Maximus]



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 06:25 AM
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Originally posted by Islam



Islam has the power to band together to fight non muslims who are viewed as doing injustice to your people, such as in Isreal.


Correct.



Yet Islam is never used to help Muslims from other Muslims. Saddam is an example. There was no 'Jihad' against him, and he did more harm to Muslims then the US and Isreal combined have.
Why is Islam only used as a tool to fight wars against non Muslims? How come Muslims don't come to the aid of their brothers when it is another Muslim causing them harm?


You are 100% wrong.
Jihad on Saddam had to be done and it happened 4 times during his ruling of Iraq.
1. Muslim Iranians fought him.


I am sorry, but this was in no way shape or form a war between Islam and Saddam. It was a war between 2 countries - Iran and Iraq. It had absolutely nothing to do with Islam standing up to one of it's own. It was as much a Jihad as WWII was.



2. The Kurd in northern Iraq fought him but they stop when he made the massacre in Halabja which killed thousands of innocents.


Again, this is NOT a Jihad. It was not Islam as a whole, backed by their most important spiritual leaders declaring war on Saddam - it was a tiny group of people. Perhaps theywould not have been massacred if their fellow Muslims in other countries had come to their aid.



3. When he tried to occupy Kuwait. Most of the Arabic countries except some send troops to fight Iraqies in boarder of Kuwait. Muslim Syrians were among them.


Yes they did - however, it was not a religious act, it was an act by a country.



4. The Shiia Muslims who made a rebellion against him in 1991.


I think you missunderstood my question. I did not mean to imply that no Muslims ever helped other Muslims. It was the lack of the actual religion getting involved. It seems to me that their is never a religious call to arms by Islam to attack it's own.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 01:47 PM
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And finally, give my sincere salutations to your "peaceful" leader (Sharon) who have 200 NUCLEAR BOMBS.


Again with that 200 nukes thing??? If I give you one nuke as a present will you shut-up???



israel:
the british owned the land. the british gave the land to the jews, end of story, the land belongs to the jews, whether you like it or not.

This what losers say.


As far as I recall the loosers of the 1948 war were the Arabs.



I am NOT against the Jews to be in the middle east, simply because they are from that plases.

I am against killing hundred of thousands of innocents to establish a Jew government.

Your previous post said thousands of Arabs now its hundred of thousands - I assume in your next post you will say millions. Incidentally Arabs with guns are not innocents.

According a palestinian website:


Of the 1,358,000 Palestinian Arab 9itizens of Palestine in 1948, approximately 873;600 resided within what. would become the Israeli borders, 485,000 without. The Israelis recorded 156,000 non-Jews in 1948, a number that included perhaps 1,000 non-Arabs, leaving 155,000 Palestinians in Israel


www.palestineremembered.com...
If you take the UNRWA figures (UN) of Palestinian refugees there were over 900,000 Palestinian refugees in 1950 this means that there was little, if any, Palestinian civilians killed during the war.

Where you get you info from? Or do you make them up? It is obvious from UN and Palestinian sources to prove that inncoents killed were minimal if at all any.


And I don't see a different between that act and the act of Osama who want to establish an Islamic country.

Both are wrong and terrorists.

Well one is based on lies the other isn't that is why you call Israel a terrorist state.




We built Israel as a Jewish country for all its inhabitants. When the Arabs wished not to accept this - They created the Palestinian problem.


Oh ! What a "peaceful" people you are.

When you came to Palestine, WAS IT EMPTY or WAS IT FULL OF VILLAGES AND CITIES OF ARABS?
Why these villages were destroyed?
Were they destroyed by earthquake? Or by some aliens from other galaxies? OR BY THE "PEACEFUL" JEWS??????????????

Jerusalem was full of Arab. How is it right now full of Jews??? Did those Arab evaporated? Or did they swollen by a huge crack? OR ARE THEY LIVING IN TENTS IN SYRIA, JORDAN, AND LEBANON?????????

Ever since the first census taken in 1844 Jews have been a majority in Jerusalem - Look it up!
www.localcolorart.com...
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

Refering to inhabitation of Palestine itself:
In 1857 the British consul, James Finn, in Palestine wrote this:

The country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is that of a body of population. . .


Mark Twain said this after being in the holy land in the 1860s:


Stirring scenes ... occur in the valley [Jezreel] no more. There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent-not for thirty miles in either direction. There are two or three small clusters of Bedouin tents, but not a single permanent habitation. One may ride ten miles hereabouts and not see ten human beings.

and


Come to Galilee for that... these unpeopled deserts, these rusty mounds of barrenness, that never, never do shake the glare from their harsh outlines, and fade and faint into vague perspective; that melancholy ruin of Capernaum: this stupid village of Tiberias, slumbering under its six funereal palms.... We reached Tabor safely .... We never saw a human being on the whole route

and


Nazareth is forlorn .... Jericho the accursed lies a moldering ruin today, even as Joshua's miracle left it more than three thousand years ago: Bethlehem and Bethany, in their poverty and their humiliation, have nothing about them now to remind one that they once knew the high honor of the Savior's presence; the hallowed spot where the shepherds watched their flocks by night, and where the angels sang, "Peace on earth, good will to men," is untenanted by any living creature... Bethsaida and Chorzin have vanished from the earth, and the "desert places" round about them, where thousands of men once listened to the Savior's voice and ate the miraculous bread, sleep in the hush of a solitude that is inhabited only by birds of prey and skulking foxes


There is more you can look this up in google.




Let me tell you this. I have a conspiracy theory.
Israel has nukes but nukes are a weapon used for a
deterrent. If no-one knows of Israel's nukes then
there is no deterent- Therefore, the nukes are
useless. In comes Venunu exposes the fact that Israel
has nukes and PRESTO - Israel establishes its deterent
force.
THINK ABOUT IT.

Ya,,, I will think about it.
Israel has 200 NUCLEAR BOMBS that are USELESS.
What a joke.
Can you proof that.


You obviously missed the point. Nukes (in developed countries) are not MEANT to be used. It is a doomsday weapon. Like Samson (if you are familiar with the bible) when he took all the Phillistines with him to his death by bringing down the temple of DAGON. If the Arab armies attack Israel and succeed to bring it down Israel would use their weapons as a last resort. Nukes are not meant to be used and are a deterent only. Make an effort to understand and not make a point when there is no point to be made.



That what Israeli said BUT not what the WORLD said.

Read what BBC said
news.bbc.co.uk...
Read what Times said:
www.timesonline.co.uk...
Read what the Guardian British link said:
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.guardian.co.uk...

And finally look at the photos
www.palestinemonitor.org...
this.is...

Do you want the same proves about Qana, Sabra,
Shatila, Der Yasin, etc.


Here you show that you are either playing it stupid or lying. All your links are links from media hysterics from the time of the Jenin battle. The Palestinians lied about a maddacre and the world followed accordingly. Later this was investigated.
The whole world knows now that the Jenin 'massacre' never happened. The UN stated it and Even the Palestinian authority retracted their statement about a massacre. It was even noted that part of the Palestinians killed were killed from Palestinian bombs planted in Jenin.
Qana, Sabra and shatila we spoke about as for Dir Yassin:
Here is what an Arab resident , Ayish Zeidan, of Dir Yassin said:


The Arab radio talked of women being killed and raped, but this is not true... I believe that most of those who were killed were among the fighters and the women and children who helped the fighters. The Arab leaders committed a big mistake. By exaggerating the atrocities they thought they would encourage people to fight back harder. Instead they created panic and people ran away.

www.palestinefacts.org...

Read the article.

How does it feel when you realize everything you have been taught and told is a lie?????



IF "³ Iran is an extremist Moslem coutry who supports
international terrorist organizations (Hezbullah,
Al-Qaida) and have vowed to destroy Israel.

Then Isn¡¦t Israel the same????

Israel also is an extremist JEW coutry who supports
international terrorist massacres (Qana, Sabra,
Jenin, Shatila, etc.) and have vowed to destroy Arab
and Muslims.

You actually believe that crap? since when is the Qana, Sabra,
Jenin, Shatila so called "massacres" international?
When did Israel vow to destroy Arabs and Muslims?



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 02:29 PM
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since when was this an Israeli palestinian conflict thread ? too much passion comes with this topic , however i have a comment :
Israel is getting far from jewish , in fact it's very soon becoming a religion in itself , if not already . you're not being realistic if you think that israel is not an extremist state , and sharon is not a blood thirsty murderer .
i'm sure most NON zionist american jews agree ...
want a good read ? Alfred Lilienthal's " what price israel "
that's all i have to say in addition to : Islam , i wish more muslims were like you . peace



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 03:34 PM
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Caught you in a lie here Islam. There was never a "massacre" at Jenin, in fact the BBS retracted that story because it was simply not the truth.




Do you want me to believe you and deny what most broadcasting says????
Read today’s massacre from the Jew website (Yadioot Ahronot)
arabynet.com...

EVEN IF you want to mislead me by saying that Jenin is a fake, you can’t say that what Israelis are doing every day is a fake and you can’t say that the other massacre are fake.



I think you misunderstood my question. I did not mean to imply that no Muslims ever helped other Muslims. It was the lack of the actual religion getting involved. It seems to me that their is never a religious call to arms by Islam to attack it's own.




Dear MadMan:

Jihad is against any enemy who try to oppress Muslims.
Imam Husain (Prophet Muhammad’s grandchild) fought Yazid who was the king of Muslims because Yazid was an oppressor.

The problem is that you don’t understand what is JIHAD.
JIHAD is not against nonMuslims. JIHAD is against any oppressors.
Wnd when the Shiia made a rebellion against Saddam, they made that because he prevented Shiia from doing their festival of Ashooraa and because he killed some of their leaders. So, there Jihad was an Islamic Jihad.



Again with that 200 nukes thing??? If I give you one nuke as a present will you shut-up???



Don’t get very angry yop


Here what the international news and encyclopedias say about Dimona. The place were the “peaceful” Sharon is doing his “useless
” NUCLEAR BOMBS

CNN: edition.cnn.com...
edition.cnn.com...
edition.cnn.com...
edition.cnn.com...

BBC: news.bbc.co.uk...
news.bbc.co.uk...
news.bbc.co.uk...

The Guardian: www.guardian.co.uk...
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.guardian.co.uk...

en.wikipedia.org...
www.globalsecurity.org...
www.fas.org...
nuclearweaponarchive.org...
www.thebulletin.org...

AM I GIVING YOU THESE ARTICLES FROM (aljazeera, Hamas website, Hezbollah)??? OR FROM THE INTERNATIONAL NEWS.

Take some tablets of Advil or Tylenol if you are having headache, or simply visit your doctor because you might have a heart attack weeping on your “cute lovely peaceful” Sharon.





As far as I recall the loosers of the 1948 war were the Arabs.




Muslims loosed that battle with Israel and prophet Muhammad said that but he said that we are going to win against the oppressors and THE LAND WILL RETURN TO ITS OWNERS.

The ownwr of Palestine are Arabs NOT Bulgarians and Romanians.




Your previous post said thousands of Arabs now its hundred of thousands - I assume in your next post you will say millions. Incidentally Arabs with guns are not innocents.




Yes…
Arab with guns made in 1950s are terrorists BUT ISRAELIES wilth nuclear bombs and USA-made Tanks are innocents and cute like a kittens.

What an irony.



If you take the UNRWA figures (UN) of Palestinian refugees there were over 900,000 Palestinian refugees in 1950 this means that there was little, if any, Palestinian civilians killed during the war.

Where you get you info from? Or do you make them up? It is obvious from UN and Palestinian sources to prove that inncoents killed were minimal if at all any.



Good .. Very Good.

Israel occupied Palestine in 1948.
Israel did the massacres in 1948.
Israel destroyed the villages in 1948.

THERE FORE, there were over 900,000 Palestinian refugees in 1950.

SO, who is the one who force them to leave their countries???????
Why that happened in 1950 after ONLY 2 years of the “peaceful” Jews entering Palestine.

Your saying is proofing that Israel did the war crimes and thus Palestinians ran away as a refugees.



Well one is based on lies the other isn't that is why you call Israel a terrorist state.



Your saying encourage the one who is dying to laught.
Is the 200 nuclear bombs a fake?
Are the tens of massacres a fake?
Are the 900,000 refugees a fake?

Do you want me to give you more websites?
I don’t think so.
Because even if I give you whatever you will still looking to your “god kingdom” which spread from Euphrates river in Syria to the Nile in Egypt.
You will still looking to destroy Masjid Al-aqsa to build your temple.



Ever since the first census taken in 1844 Jews have been a majority in Jerusalem - Look it up!
www.localcolorart.com...
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...



First, don’t give me from the Jews’ websites as I am not giving you from Muslims’ websites.
Second, I am not saying that Jews should not be on Jerusalem, I am against those Jews who kicked Muslims out of their country or killed them.
And also, Jews are an issue and the Romanians and Bulgarians are something else.




Refering to inhabitation of Palestine itself:
In 1857 the British consul, James Finn, in Palestine wrote this:
The country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is that of a body of population. . .



Heh.

That hypocrite lier James Finn.
If what he said is right, then from where did the 900,000 Palestinian refugees produced ????????
Did they appeared from under the sand or did they sent from Mars?

What a genius.



Here you show that you are either playing it stupid or lying. All your links are links from media hysterics from the time of the Jenin battle. The Palestinians lied about a maddacre and the world followed accordingly. Later this was investigated.
The whole world knows now that the Jenin 'massacre' never happened. The UN stated it and Even the Palestinian authority retracted their statement about a massacre. It was even noted that part of the Palestinians killed were killed from Palestinian bombs planted in Jenin.



I will not deny what most broadcasting say and believe you.



Qana, Sabra and shatila we spoke about as for Dir Yassin:
Here is what an Arab resident , Ayish Zeidan, of Dir Yassin said:
quote:
The Arab radio talked of women being killed and raped, but this is not true... I believe that most of those who were killed were among the fighters and the women and children who helped the fighters. The Arab leaders committed a big mistake. By exaggerating the atrocities they thought they would encourage people to fight back harder. Instead they created panic and people ran away.

www.palestinefacts.org...




If that “Ayash Zeidan” said what he said, then the others said another thing.
www.revisionisthistory.org...
www.soundofegypt.com...





You actually believe that crap? since when is the Qana, Sabra,
Jenin, Shatila so called "massacres" international?
When did Israel vow to destroy Arabs and Muslims?



When they are preparing 200 nuclear bombs. Why all that for?
When they are occupying Golan heights in Syria.
When they are flying over Lebanon occasionally.
When they are killing every week at least one innocent civilian.
When they made the tens of massacres.
When they kicked out 90,000 Palestinian and they are suffering since 1948 in a uncomfortable places in Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan.
When Israel unite with USA against Arab and Muslims.


Don’t worry, your leaders are very foxy. They do what they want very slowly step by step.



since when was this an Israeli palestinian conflict thread ? too much passion comes with this topic , however i have a comment :
Israel is getting far from jewish , in fact it's very soon becoming a religion in itself , if not already . you're not being realistic if you think that israel is not an extremist state , and sharon is not a blood thirsty murderer .
i'm sure most NON zionist american jews agree ...
want a good read ? Alfred Lilienthal's " what price israel "
that's all i have to say in addition to : Islam , i wish more muslims were like you . peace



Thank you very much for your replying.
And if Islam is with BinLaden, then why only individuals are following that crazy guy? And why most if not ALL Muslim scholars are against him.
You can see for example the thoughts of the leader of Muslims in Syria who passed away few months ago.
kuftaro.org...
This is what most Syrians believe
Terrorist is something that was invented since 1820 when the Wahhabism people started to kill non Muslims and the Muslims who are not following their direct.
And most of them are located in Saudi Arabia and Egypt. And thus, most of AlQaeda people are from these countries.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 07:18 PM
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Hi Islam and welcome. I have a question. Are you telling me that if I tell my children, my nieces and nephews that we are not of this faith and therefore they are not to take it up or follow the beliefs of your faith that I am preventing people from being informed about Islam and therefore it is Ok to kill me? (not saying you personally) I am not trying to offend anyone just trying to figure out where the proverbial (or possibly literal) line may be.

I see this statement as equaling the crusades and most people would agree that the people involved got it wrong.

I am also wondering in this day and age with the internet and books and libraries, people can learn about anything they choose to and therefore it would seem that when the statement was made it was valid but not necessarily so in the 21st century. Information is everywhere.

I have the following 2 questions. Are Muslims trying to convert the world to their faith? If a person learns of Allah and refuses to convert, what then?
Thank you so much for educating me on this. It is a subject we hear about daily and yet have very little knowledge of.

[edit on 9-4-2005 by janesquest]



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 09:41 PM
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I don't have a question just a statement based on the communication here. It seems Muslims, Jews, and Christians alike agree that Isaiah the prophet - was a prophet of God. Here is an excerpt from Isaiah,

Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment. The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea. And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.

It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever. But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness. They shall call the nobles thereof to the kingdom, but none shall be there, and all her princes shall be nothing. And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in the fortresses thereof: and it shall be an habitation of dragons, and a court for owls. The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.

There shall the great owl make her nest, and lay, and hatch, and gather under her shadow: there shall the vultures also be gathered, every one with her mate. Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them. And he hath cast the lot for them, and his hand hath divided it unto them by line: they shall possess it for ever, from generation to generation shall they dwell therein.

Isaiah 34



posted on Apr, 10 2005 @ 02:15 AM
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I would like for you to justify the morality in all of the following Quran quotes. I would like for you to try and say that Islam is not immoral.




6. Thus was the Decree of thy Lord proved true against the Unbelievers; that truly they are Companions of the Fire!


I am apparently sent to hell for being a nonbeleiver. Nice moral religion





When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.


Now I am evidently a fool. Thanks for the kind words.





Say to those who reject Faith: "Soon will ye be vanquished and gathered together to Hell,-an evil bed indeed (to lie on)!


How nice.




Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger.: But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith.


Hmm. Nice god you worship. How can god be good if he does not love all? Allah should at least love people who are good who just dont happen to have faith.




But those who disobey Allah and His Messenger and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment


Im going to hell again evidently. Only about the fourth time so far, and im only on the third chapter of the Quran out of like 30. What a nice religion.





Those who reject faith and deny our signs will be companions of Hell-fire.


Again, off to hell I go.




37. Their wish will be to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out therefrom: their penalty will be one that endures.


And apparently I will never leave hell now that I am here. Nice awesome religion. I will be sure to pass this out to children. Nice how god banish's everyone to hell and tortures them





But those who reject our signs,- them shall punishment touch, for that they ceased not from transgressing


Punishment, how nice.




Say: "I am forbidden to worship those - others than Allah - whom ye call upon." Say: "I will not follow your wain desires: If I did, I would stray from the path, and be not of the company of those who receive guidance."


The Quran is awfully repetitive. How many times does it need to be said to "Beleive in Allah and only Allah and you shall be rewarded". If the Signs of Allah are so true, why does the Quran feel the need to "HAIL ALLAH OR GOTO HELL" a million times?




When the night covered him over, He saw a star: He said: "This is my Lord." But when it set, He said: "I love not those that set."


Apparently even Abrahams faith was questionable.




But those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance,- they are companions of the Fire, to dwell therein (for ever).


Awesome moral god. Sending people to hell for having free will and wanting to choose their own path in faith.




The men on the heights will call to certain men whom they will know from their marks, saying: "Of what profit to you were your hoards and your arrogant ways?


So now Allah is showing people in heaven what hell looks like. Would that not negate true heaven to see evil?




The Companions of the Fire will call to the Companions of the Garden: "Pour down to us water or anything that Allah doth provide for your sustenance." They will say: "Both these things hath Allah forbidden to those who rejected Him."


So now even Islams themselves beleive nonbeleivers and the like should have a place in hell. I can tell you are a nice person





Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah


So evidently now the Quran is throwing out broad generalizations that all non beleivers fit into the category of the likes of the Romans for example. Even though im not a Roman as they say, evidently I am a conspirator anyways. Hmm not sure if whoeveer wrote this was all that smart.




The Unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (man) from the path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend; but in the end they will have (only) regrets and sighs; at length they will be overcome: and the Unbelievers will be gathered together to Hell;-


Off to hell again. Nice. Thanks allah.




In order that Allah may separate the impure from the pure, put the impure, one on another, heap them together, and cast them into Hell. They will be the ones to have lost.


Ok. If Allah is the creator of all, and there are "impure" people, they are the creation of Allah.

So Allah creates "impure" people for fun and then sends them to hell? Allah is not very nice.




And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do


So after the spoils of war then you force people by force to beleive in Allah, else Allah supposedly sends them to hell.

Why would you teach your children this religion?




Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.


Thought you said in an earlier post that you dont fight nonbeleivers. Does the Quran contradict itself about 1000 times? It does. It contradicts itself about Allah being Most Merciful to not forgiving non beleivers. So which is it? How can you hold something holy that is just one big book of contradiction.





The Unbelievers will be led to Hell in crowd: until, when they arrive, there, its gates will be opened. And its keepers will say, "Did not apostles come to you from among yourselves, rehearsing to you the Signs of your Lord, and warning you of the Meeting of This Day of yours?" The answer will be: "True: but the Decree of Punishment has been proved true against the Unbelievers!"


I am going to stop here. I have read about 10 chapters, all repeating the same thing over and over. Allah created all, beleive in allah and goto heaven, dont beleive in allah and you goto hell. Kill non beleivers and always spread the faith.

Typical religion. Psycho bullcrap written by mortal men to conscript armies and organizations. All it does is force morals and beleifs onto people with threats of evil and violence.


Why did people live poor for our recent history? Why was there war? Suffering? Slavery? Why did Islams get beaten down in war if Allah was there ultimate messenger and protector?


There is no god. If god is the supreme power, and evil exists in the world, then god is evil since god is the force that creats evil.

Therefore Islam, Christianity, Judaism is a form of Satanism.

Not to mention the scriptures of all of the popular religions are immoral, dirty and unintelligent.


So have fun trying to rebutall my post. Start thinking for yourself instead of thinking you are inferior to the world and the universe you live in.

Have a little pride in yourself. Religion is only for the weak.



posted on Apr, 10 2005 @ 05:02 AM
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This is just aquick reply for you "Obfuscate"

You are either out of any religious knowledge or simply you wanted to waise your time and thus you post your worthless post.

The same verses are mentioned in Bible and Torah but in different style.

So are you going to laugh on the bible and Torah too.



posted on Apr, 10 2005 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by Islam


Caught you in a lie here Islam. There was never a "massacre" at Jenin, in fact the BBS retracted that story because it was simply not the truth.




Do you want me to believe you and deny what most broadcasting says????
Read today’s massacre from the Jew website (Yadioot Ahronot)
arabynet.com...

EVEN IF you want to mislead me by saying that Jenin is a fake, you can’t say that what Israelis are doing every day is a fake and you can’t say that the other massacre are fake.

Saying that the Jenin massacre occured is burying your head in the sand. If you wish to do so to hide the fact that you have been raised on lies then do so. But you are not fooling anyone but yourself.

Other massacres DID happened on both sides. That you cannot deny. The difference is that when Muslims do it it is OK because it is in the name of Allah and when Jews do it , it is because they are evil (in you view).

I see it differently. Culturally we see things differently. Jews put human life before religion while Muslims put religion before human life.
That is why the Israeli Army in Jenin chose to dispach soldiers to fight the terrorist scum in Jenin and minimize Arab civilian losses instead of bombing those terrorists from Helicopters and Planes. In comparison Palestinians send suicide bombers to kill children in school buses with the financial and logistical support of Saudi Arabia, Syria and Iran.
I am not religious but that fact alone shows me that those same Muslims are the evil in this world. Zaka, the Jewish organization for identification of corpses following catastrophes treats Jews and Muslims with the same respect.
When Israel needed to deal with the Suicide attacks it was noted that the British in the early 1900s needed to deal with the same phenomena and did so by taking the bodies of the suicide bombers and burying them in pig skin. This stopped the suicide bomber attacks. The rabbis in Israel did not allow the government to do this since it disrespects the Muslims.
Todays muslim militants do not have this respect - Hamas kills children in school buses and spikes their bombs with rat poison. They target children and attempt to maximize the amount of children killed. They choose NOT to face soldiers but civilians instead. These Muslim terrorists are cowards.
And by the way I do not read Arabic so I have no idea what that link says.



AM I GIVING YOU THESE ARTICLES FROM (aljazeera, Hamas website, Hezbollah)??? OR FROM THE INTERNATIONAL NEWS.

Take some tablets of Advil or Tylenol if you are having headache, or simply visit your doctor because you might have a heart attack weeping on your “cute lovely peaceful” Sharon.


LOL - Thats funny. The fact that Israel has nukes makes me happy. Because if we didn't I'd be dead. And I would have our nice, peaceful and extremely sane Arab neighbors to thank for that.



Muslims loosed that battle with Israel and prophet Muhammad said that but he said that we are going to win against the oppressors and THE LAND WILL RETURN TO ITS OWNERS.

The ownwr of Palestine are Arabs NOT Bulgarians and Romanians.

Palestine does not exist there is an Israel though full of Israelis. By the way I am Jewish and I do not believe in Muhammad. According to the Kabbalah when the world will decend upon Jerusalem the War of Gog and Magog will occur. This will result in the coming of the Messiah and the destruction of all enemies of Israel.



Yes…
Arab with guns made in 1950s are terrorists BUT ISRAELIES wilth nuclear bombs and USA-made Tanks are innocents and cute like a kittens.

What an irony.

again you are wrong Israeli tanks are MIRKAVA tanks which are Israeli designed and made not American. And yes they are cute as kittens.




If you take the UNRWA figures (UN) of Palestinian refugees there were over 900,000 Palestinian refugees in 1950 this means that there was little, if any, Palestinian civilians killed during the war.

Where you get you info from? Or do you make them up? It is obvious from UN and Palestinian sources to prove that inncoents killed were minimal if at all any.

Good .. Very Good.

Israel occupied Palestine in 1948.

No Israel was formed by the UN in 1948, was attacked by Arabs and those attackers lost. Just keeping the record straight without lies and without Arab baseless propaganda.


Israel did the massacres in 1948.
Israel destroyed the villages in 1948.

THERE FORE, there were over 900,000 Palestinian refugees in 1950.

SO, who is the one who force them to leave their countries???????
Why that happened in 1950 after ONLY 2 years of the “peaceful” Jews entering Palestine.

Your saying is proofing that Israel did the war crimes and thus Palestinians ran away as a refugees.

No - Make an effort to understand what is said to you in simple english.
1- UN forms Israel.
2- Arabs attack Israel - tell Arabs in Israel to leave so that they can push Jews into the sea (make a massacre).
3- Arabs flee following false claims of massacres by Israel.
4- Arabs loose war.
5- Refugee problem created by Arabs not Israel.



Your saying encourage the one who is dying to laught.
Is the 200 nuclear bombs a fake?

It is irrelevant


Are the tens of massacres a fake?

Most of them are.


Are the 900,000 refugees a fake?

No they are because of the Arabs aggressor countries who told the Arabs to leave.


Do you want me to give you more websites?
I don’t think so.
Because even if I give you whatever you will still looking to your “god kingdom” which spread from Euphrates river in Syria to the Nile in Egypt.
You will still looking to destroy Masjid Al-aqsa to build your temple.

No I think we should all make peace. I think that Muslims should stop with their Islamic pride and accept Israel. I think that the 'Masjid Al-aqsa' should be used by both people for praying to the same GOD while accepting each others differences. I know you will reject this just as Arabs rejected the acceptance of Israel as a Jewish state. It just shows who is the evil one in this conflict. Israel is open to concessions for the sake of peace - Arabs aren't. Israel is willing to give up the Sinai, Gaza and most of the West Bank. Arabs are willing to take it while killing more innocent civilians.



Ever since the first census taken in 1844 Jews have been a majority in Jerusalem - Look it up!
www.localcolorart.com...
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...



First, don’t give me from the Jews’ websites as I am not giving you from Muslims’ websites.

and soundofegypt.com is a Jewish website??? Stop lying.
I gave you Palestinian websites in other posts to make my point.


Second, I am not saying that Jews should not be on Jerusalem, I am against those Jews who kicked Muslims out of their country or killed them.
And also, Jews are an issue and the Romanians and Bulgarians are something else.

My friend, admit that the Jewish Majority in Jerusalem is as old enough to accept that Jerusalem is JEWISH.




Heh.

That hypocrite lier James Finn.
If what he said is right, then from where did the 900,000 Palestinian refugees produced ????????
Did they appeared from under the sand or did they sent from Mars?

What a genius.

Well if you bothered to see that he said this in 1857 then you'd understand that 'Palestine' was highly underpopulated and was repopulated later by Arab immigrants. Are Arab immigrants better than Jewish immigrants?
In addition, ou are forgetting that Mark Twain had the same thing to say - And there are others. Would you like to hear what others had to say?



I will not deny what most broadcasting say and believe you.

I am happy you are honorable enough to admit this.



If that “Ayash Zeidan” said what he said, then the others said another thing.
www.revisionisthistory.org...
www.soundofegypt.com...

There are many different stories about what happened - Both sides lied both sides killed. It is war. Fact still remains that the Arabs started the 1948 war and lost. Therefore Arabs need to loose something. If the Arabs wouldn't have started the war - there would have been no refugee problem.




You actually believe that crap? since when is the Qana, Sabra,
Jenin, Shatila so called "massacres" international?
When did Israel vow to destroy Arabs and Muslims?


When they are preparing 200 nuclear bombs. Why all that for?

Deterence against more large scale muslim/Arab aggressions. It is a defensive weapon and proof for that is that it was never used.


When they are occupying Golan heights in Syria.
When they are flying over Lebanon occasionally.

Golan heights are a strategic land that was used to attack Israel. This land will not be returned to a warmongering dictator. And since Lebanon is a puppet of Syria they will remain a part of this conflict especially since those unholy pigs, Hezbullah are there and supported by Syria.


When they are killing every week at least one innocent civilian.
When they made the tens of massacres.

Again makebelieve?


When they kicked out 90,000 Palestinian and they are suffering since 1948 in a uncomfortable places in Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan.

You meant 900,000 and we discussed this they are there thanks to their Arab brothers.


[edit on 10/4/05 by JudahMaccabbi]

[edit on 10/4/05 by JudahMaccabbi]





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