Do you have any question about *Jihad* ???

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posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 11:21 PM
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I've lost friends in service in this country, as well, fighting against men who cry "Jihad!" to justify their actions.

I, in no way dislike the religion of Islam (I am a Christian and respect the brotherhood - the two religions share many prophets and laws), although I do not condone or see that this "Jihad" is justified against U.S. sons and daughters.

Beheadings, rapes, etc. are not part of warfare. My service, and my friends' and family members' services in the U.S. military, never included this.

Just my 2 cents,

Islam, I would be delighted to share viewpoints with you and/or discuss world issues with you, if it is possible, U2U me and we can chat.

God bless you.

-wD




posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 11:21 PM
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You noted


Originally posted by Islam
That is a proof of what I said before.
We are allowed to fight those who are preventing us from informing people about Islam.


and then said earlier


"Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.
Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust."


This appears to be a contradiction so I'm asking you to clarify it. Does someone have to draw first blood or can it be as simple as forbidding muslims from protelytizing?


Regard what you said about the mullas.
2- Give me an event that proof what you said.


I assume you mean when I questioned the motives of some religious leaders. Last year a small retarded palestian boy was captured by IDF trying to cross over. He was packed with explosives. It is one thing for an adult to make such a choice to end his life (even if it goes against the teachings of Mohamad) but it is another when a child is sent to do this. This child's parents were absolutely devasted by this and blamed the local mosque.


Saucide is completely prohibitted in Islam. Prophet Muhammad said what means: "Who so ever killed himself by an equipment, Allah will make him to kill himself by that equipment in the hellfire for ever"

NOW.
If some one came t your country USA and oppressed you, raped your daughters and sisters, killed your brothers and sons, imprison you father and take all your weapons and that enemy have 200 nuclear bomb and the all countries are supporting him and opressing you.
What are you going to do ??


You assume I have no sympathy for or do not understand the Palestinian's plight - you would be wrong. But I do believe the present course taken by some of the more radical elements within the Palestinian state do it more harm than good. One that appears to be resulting in the genocide of it's children with no real gains being made to give the Palestian people total autonomy.

I appreciate you doing this and hope you will become a regular fixture here at ATS.

Bleys

[edit on 4/4/05 by Bleys]



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 11:32 PM
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Islam,

The way you came in to these boards sounded as if you were in Syria. Many of us would be very interested in speaking with people who are in the Middle East, simply to achieve better understanding. Certain moderators on every forum can see the poster's IP. Now knowing that you are in Florida, we do not know what you have stated in your above replies do represent the view of a (moderate) Syrian in Syria or a (moderate) muslim in America. Which of course may well be different.

Still, for me some of your explanation of Jihad is valuable, whether it is from a Syrian in Syria or a muslim in America.

Anyhow, for me you are still welcome on these boards. A friendly discussion between different religions is never wrong.


Blobber




[edit on 4-4-2005 by Blobber]


D

posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 11:43 PM
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Originally posted by Blobber
Islam,

The way you came in to these boards sounded as if you were in Syria. Many of us would be very interested in speaking with people who are in the Middle East, simply to achieve better understanding. Certain moderators on every forum can see the poster's IP. Now knowing that you are in Florida, we do not know what you have stated in your above replies do represent the view of a (moderate) Syrian in Syria or a (moderate) muslim in America. Which of course may well be different.


[edit on 4-4-2005 by Blobber]


He could just be on holidays. But as you said, a good discussion between religions doesn't hurt and it is finally good to see civilised discussion on such a sensitive issue for some.



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 11:45 PM
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D,

Aye, exactly.

Blobber



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 11:53 PM
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Hello to you Islam. I have many questions about Jihad.
In my african culture we have a cultural dance where we work ourselves up into a fury of energy before we go out and kill our enemies.

After eating the sacred plants which reveal the spirits to us we dance in unison with our spears in our hands making grunts that imagine the spear thrusting deep in the body of our victim.

In Islam do you have such a tradition. How can you get into a warrier trance when you nose is on the ground and your ass is in the air? Are you awaiting the holy foot to launch you into battle?



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 01:14 AM
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Originally posted by Islam
I WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO ANSWER IT.


Okay, a train leaves Baltimore at 10:30am. It travels at 80 miles per hour. Later, another train leaves Chicago at 11:00am, traveling 40 miles per hour. For the sake of arguement, let's say there are exactly 1000 miles between the two cities.

At what time will they crash into each and strike fear into the hearts of the American infidels?



[edit on 5-4-2005 by brimstone735]



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 02:52 AM
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I have a question about Islam.

Islam has the power to band together to fight non muslims who are viewed as doing injustice to your people, such as in Isreal.

Yet Islam is never used to help Muslims from other Muslims. Saddam is an example. There was no 'Jihad' against him, and he did more harm to Muslims then the US and Isreal combined have.

Why is Islam only used as a tool to fight wars against non Muslims? How come Muslims don't come to the aid of their brothers when it is another Muslim causing them harm?



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 05:13 AM
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Hi Islam,

what do you know of the kharijites and are these links true?

en.wikipedia.org...

atheism.about.com...

answering-islam.org.uk...



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 09:12 AM
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Dear WebDevil:

Thank you for being in my post. And It is an honor that some of your relatives are among the army of their homeland. That is a proof of loving one’s homeland and it is thus a proof of faith. Prophet Muhammad said: “Loving one’s homeland is a sign of faith.”

But there is different between those good soldiers and between the nasty soldiers who did what they did in Iraq.




This appears to be a contradiction so I'm asking you to clarify it. Does someone have to draw first blood or can it be as simple as forbidding muslims from protelytizing?


Go back to what I said earlier. I said there are 3 reasons to declare a war against someone and one of it is if we are prevented from spreading our religion.
The proof of that is not in the Quran but in prophet Muhammad’s quote.



I assume you mean when I questioned the motives of some religious leaders. Last year a small retarded palestian boy was captured by IDF trying to cross over. He was packed with explosives. It is one thing for an adult to make such a choice to end his life (even if it goes against the teachings of Mohamad) but it is another when a child is sent to do this. This child's parents were absolutely devasted by this and blamed the local mosque.


There is nothing completely perfect dear.
Thus, if a child did that that doesn’t mean Islam or Muhammad said that.

And by the way, Jihad is only for adults. Therefore, the child was either sent by his parents. OR (that is the stronger), he did that by himself maybe because one of his relative was killed by the terrorist Israelis.

And last question,

Who is the most terrorist?
The child who (out of pressure) tried to kill himself in order to kill one of human devil?
OR
Those Israelis who killed tens of thousand of people by massacres and who have 200 nuclear bomb that are eligible to finish mankind?



You assume I have no sympathy for or do not understand the Palestinian's plight - you would be wrong. But I do believe the present course taken by some of the more radical elements within the Palestinian state do it more harm than good. One that appears to be resulting in the genocide of it's children with no real gains being made to give the Palestian people total autonomy.


Dear Belys:
Please .. Please .. Please
Use your mind.

If Osama killed only 3000 Americans, then Bush declared war on the world. Do you want Palestinians to stay calm while more that 100,000 person was killed?
WHAT Palestinians who lost their beloved ones and their jobs can do if ALL countries are against them and with the country that has 200 nuclear bomb??

Sister >>> The terrorist is well known.



Islam,

The way you came in to these boards sounded as if you were in Syria. Many of us would be very interested in speaking with people who are in the Middle East, simply to achieve better understanding. Certain moderators on every forum can see the poster's IP. Now knowing that you are in Florida, we do not know what you have stated in your above replies do represent the view of a (moderate) Syrian in Syria or a (moderate) muslim in America. Which of course may well be different.

Still, for me some of your explanation of Jihad is valuable, whether it is from a Syrian in Syria or a muslim in America.

Anyhow, for me you are still welcome on these boards. A friendly discussion between different religions is never wrong.


Dear Blober:

First of all I’ve been in USA for less than 1 year.
Second, don’t think that USA would Americanize us as Muslims.
Third, what I am saying is from the grand Sheikh (Islamic priest) in Syria whopassed away last Septemper.

You can look by yourself in his website.
www.kuftaro.org...

And that is the second most known sheikh in Syria.
bouti.com...

And beside all that. I am giving you the view of ISLAM. I don’t care what some ignorant Muslims think.




Hello to you Islam. I have many questions about Jihad.
In my african culture we have a cultural dance where we work ourselves up into a fury of energy before we go out and kill our enemies.

After eating the sacred plants which reveal the spirits to us we dance in unison with our spears in our hands making grunts that imagine the spear thrusting deep in the body of our victim.

In Islam do you have such a tradition. How can you get into a warrier trance when you nose is on the ground and your is in the air? Are you awaiting the holy foot to launch you into battle?


Hi Mala

It was interesting to know about your culture.

Well, Islam is not a tradition. It is a religion.
So there is nothing traditionally happen in Jihad.

However, there are some rules should be followed.

1. It is prohibited to kill an injured person.
2. It is prohibited to kill woman, child, old man, or any one who is not fighting.
3. It is prohibited to cut a tree or a plant.
4. It is prohibited to kill a cattle or animal.
5. One who fight, should fight for the sake of God or his homeland only but not to show off.


I hope that answer your question.



Islam has the power to band together to fight non muslims who are viewed as doing injustice to your people, such as in Isreal.


Correct.



Yet Islam is never used to help Muslims from other Muslims. Saddam is an example. There was no 'Jihad' against him, and he did more harm to Muslims then the US and Isreal combined have.
Why is Islam only used as a tool to fight wars against non Muslims? How come Muslims don't come to the aid of their brothers when it is another Muslim causing them harm?


You are 100% wrong.
Jihad on Saddam had to be done and it happened 4 times during his ruling of Iraq.
1. Muslim Iranians fought him.
2. The Kurd in northern Iraq fought him but they stop when he made the massacre in Halabja which killed thousands of innocents.
3. When he tried to occupy Kuwait. Most of the Arabic countries except some send troops to fight Iraqies in boarder of Kuwait. Muslim Syrians were among them.
4. The Shiia Muslims who made a rebellion against him in 1991.

That about Saddam. BUT Muslims did fight many Bad Muslims through History.
The most known one Is when Imam Husain (Muhammad’s grandchild) fought Yazeed who was the worst caliph.

Finally God said in the Quran:

“And if two parties of the believers quarrel, make peace between them; but if one of them acts wrongfully towards the other, fight that which acts wrongfully until it returns to Allah's command; then if it returns, make peace between them with justice and act equitably; surely Allah loves those who act equitably.” [049.00]




Dear Iainwh:

Kharijiis briefly decided to kill Ali, Muawiya, and Sa’d.
They did and killed Ali. But the other two weren’t killed.
They are NOT considered as Muslims because of the problems they’ve done.
And there are no Kariji right now.



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 09:26 AM
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Great thread Islam


I do not have any questions for you, but i simply wanted to give you a thumbs up for keeping this thread as civil and informative as possible. IMO- you are doing ATS a great service by being so open on this topic, as it does seem that too many people have the wrong impression of Islam thanks to the way our media works.

If you have a chance while you are here in America you should check out the circus that is our media (ie- CNN, Fox News, MSNBC) if you haven't already.

keep up the good work


[edit on 5-4-2005 by negativenihil]



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 09:29 AM
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Hi Islam,

Thanks for the reply, I heard a guy talking on a radio station here in the uk. He said he was reading a book that said the Wahabi/Salafi hold pretty much the same veiws as the kharijites and were direct decendents of the Kharijites. I cant remember the name of the book otherwise I may have looked it up. So is the guy who phoned up the radio talking garbage or what?



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by Islam
Saucide bombing havent happened through the Islamic history except recently in Palestine.


My dear Islam - I hope your inaccuracies are out of ignorance and not 'in the name of Islam' or 'in the name of Allah'


Suicide bombing has plagued the British in the very easly 1900s as well as the Israel now. It is not a new or recent occurance as you claim.
In the case of Arab suicide bombers, the British knew how to stop them. About 1900, the British , who owned Egypt and Sudan, were attacked by Sudanese suicide bombers who also thought their entrance to heaven was assured by their suicides. The British, knowing that Islam believed that any contact with swine would block them from going to heaven, picked up the body parts of the bomber, wrapped them in pig skin, and delivered them to a mosque. The suicide bombing stopped immediately

www.studiesintheword.org...

Israel will not do this out of respect to Islam. Islam should show equal respect and stop supporting terrorism or the targeted killing of civilians.



That is because Palestinians have nothing at all to defend themselves except their bodies.

That is also not true. India fought off the British with peaceful protests. Jews targeted the British army when fighting for independance. This is a lame attempt at an excuse to justify the systematic targeting of civilians as a strategy for political gain used by arabs and muslims against anyone not Arab or Muslim.


If some one came t your country USA and oppressed you, raped your daughters and sisters, killed your brothers and sons, imprison you father and take all your weapons and that enemy have 200 nuclear bomb and the all countries are supporting him and opressing you.
What are you going to do ??

OK then why hasn't the muslims fought off the Sadaam regeim? who raped killed and oppressed? Because Sadaam is Muslim. This has nothing to do with the fantasies you claim above but has everything to do with Islamic pride. A small underarmed group of Jews outsmarted, out-whitted and out-strengthened the Muslims in 1948 and since then the Arabs/Muslims have been crying like sore loosers.


Sister:

You dont know what Israel did to Us.
Go to this link and just get an idea about the Israeli massacres in Palestine an Lebanon
www.soundofegypt.com...
Imagen your village was one of these villages that was flattened.
Imagen your family was one of these families who was vanished.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ???


I can spit out just as much artrocities that Arabs and Muslims performed against Jews and against Christians in Israel and in Lebanon.

So WHAT AM I GOING TO DO.

Your approach to the problem is all wrong. You cannot justify Palestinian behavior the way you do.



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 10:17 AM
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what i don't understand is that those people keep using a couple thousand year old book to justfic their actions...



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 10:22 AM
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Great thread Islam

I do not have any questions for you, but i simply wanted to give you a thumbs up for keeping this thread as civil and informative as possible. IMO- you are doing ATS a great service by being so open on this topic, as it does seem that too many people have the wrong impression of Islam thanks to the way our media works.

If you have a chance while you are here in America you should check out the circus that is our media (ie- CNN, Fox News, MSNBC) if you haven't already.

keep up the good work


Thankyou very very very much dear negativenihil for your support.
For the CNN, FOX, MSNBC, etc. I know these channels because simply it show up in most satellites in Sytria.



Hi Islam,

Thanks for the reply, I heard a guy talking on a radio station here in the uk. He said he was reading a book that said the Wahabi/Salafi hold pretty much the same veiws as the kharijites and were direct decendents of the Kharijites. I cant remember the name of the book otherwise I may have looked it up. So is the guy who phoned up the radio talking garbage or what?


Well,

Wahhabies are two types:
1. The semi-good ones who prohibit killing nonMuslims or nonWahhabies, but they prohibit also to love any one of them!!!

2. The bad ones. And those are the followers of BinLaden and his crazy groups.

- They declare WAR on all people including Muslims who are not following their direction. And you see that very clearly right now in Iraq. They are killing policemen who are Muslims and killing Shiia Muslims!!!

- They say that if a Muslim is talking kindly with any nonMuslim, he will be not Muslim and he should be killed if he don’t return!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aren’t they know that Islam allow a Muslim man to marry a nonMuslim woman ????? How can one marry someone if he don’t love her?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Aren’t they know that ALLAH said: “Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.

Those bad type of Wahhabies are NOT Muslims in a any way.



My dear Islam - I hope your inaccuracies are out of ignorance and not 'in the name of Islam' or 'in the name of Allah'
quote:
Suicide bombing has plagued the British in the very easly 1900s as well as the Israel now. It is not a new or recent occurance as you claim.
In the case of Arab suicide bombers, the British knew how to stop them. About 1900, the British , who owned Egypt and Sudan, were attacked by Sudanese suicide bombers who also thought their entrance to heaven was assured by their suicides. The British, knowing that Islam believed that any contact with swine would block them from going to heaven, picked up the body parts of the bomber, wrapped them in pig skin, and delivered them to a mosque. The suicide bombing stopped immediately

www.studiesintheword.org...

Israel will not do this out of respect to Islam. Islam should show equal respect and stop supporting terrorism or the targeted killing of civilians.


Hi

HOW you want Palestinians to stop killing Israilies if their lands are occupied by them ?????
When Palestinians will have houses to live in their lands, then they will not touch any Israeli.
Dear Judah:
Palestine is for Arab. But you see Arabs are living in tents and the jews who came from Romania, Russia, Hungary, Bulgaria, etc are living in houses.
Do you think we have no love to our homelands???????????????
Do you think Palestinians are like flies and fleas to sit like idiots in tent and not fighting those who oppressed them and kicked them from their lands ????????
Are you going to hug and kiss a man who came and kicked you from your house and farm and makes you to live in tents and then he killed your brother and raped your sister???????????????????????
Animals themselves will fight against such occupiers so what about humans???????????????????????
What that mean ,, that the filthy pig Bush is having nightmares about Iran and leaving Israel to have 200 nuclear bomb that can destroy ever atom in this planet?????????????????????????????????????????


Look by your mind dear brother. Muslims governed Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and many other countries for centuries and till now all the churches that was built before Muhammad is still as it is because it is PROHIBITTED to kill an innocent Christian. Muhammad said” Harming a nonMuslim (who is not fighting) is like harming me”
Regard to Saddam. I answer that point in my previous reply.



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi

My dear Islam - I hope your inaccuracies are out of ignorance and not 'in the name of Islam' or 'in the name of Allah'


Suicide bombing has plagued the British in the very easly 1900s as well as the Israel now. It is not a new or recent occurance as you claim.
In the case of Arab suicide bombers, the British knew how to stop them. About 1900, the British , who owned Egypt and Sudan, were attacked by Sudanese suicide bombers who also thought their entrance to heaven was assured by their suicides. The British, knowing that Islam believed that any contact with swine would block them from going to heaven, picked up the body parts of the bomber, wrapped them in pig skin, and delivered them to a mosque. The suicide bombing stopped immediately

www.studiesintheword.org...



Palestine had been since 1516 part of the Ottoman Empire, in 1917 the UK took it from Turkey. There was during the British era a massive influx of European Jews to Palestine, laying claim on the land. This resulted into tensions between Arabs, British rulers and Jews. All sides committed attrocities.

JudahMaccabbi, no matter where I looked (encyclopedias, googling "first suicide bombers" and other combination of words) I have not found what you claim. I am very sceptical that the link you have given (Studies in the Word of God) is correct.

Also your site has a big header with "Islamic invasion", yet the Arabs was in majority before the huge European Jewish influx after 1917, during the British era.

See Wikipedia:


At that time Palestine was a part of the Ottoman Empire. Under Ottoman rule, Palestine had substantial regional independence, and the area was inhabitated predominantly by Palestinian Arabs (about 95%, mostly Muslims, some Christians), and Jews (about 5%).


en.wikipedia.org...

So, it's the other way around: i.e. Jewish invasion of Palestine.

Blobber



[edit on 5-4-2005 by Blobber]



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 11:43 AM
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Basically, Jihad is a philosopical topic, whereas you have to find yourself, and release you from the nutshell of ignorance most people are living in. The A4-format...

Thank you. I like to get confirmation on my knowledge, that most people are ignorant dweeps that instead of finding sollution, by knowledge, by experience, by observation and contemplating of their own minds, they go out and make disagreement with others. Becoming destructive nihilists using the ultimate low, the religion (any religion!) to point finger to others, to gain control and create fundamentalism, which invokes fear in innocent.



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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Dear Islam,

fist of all, maybe you can tell us your name, "Dear Islam" sounds like "Dear God" to me -
, so iam Georgi and here is my question:

1/ If the US/Israel is invading Iran

- what would be the consequences for your culture, and, it will be Djihad, do you think that muslims all over Middle East would come to Iran and fight against "The Evil"? I'am specially interested in the psichologie, not in the
military situation of Iran, witch was discussed many times.

- Hypo.: The US atacks Iran with 5 alied countrys - what would be the consequences to this 5 countrys after and in time of the war?

Thats for now, just wanna hear your opinion as an Muslim living in Syria - thanks.



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by Blobber

Palestine had been since 1516 part of the Ottoman Empire, in 1917 the UK took it from Turkey. There was during the British era a massive influx of European Jews to Palestine, laying claim on the land. This resulted into tensions between Arabs, British rulers and Jews. All sides committed attrocities.

You missed saying that there was an big influx of Arabs as well. True both sides committed atrocities. Probelm is that the Arabs/Muslims seem to 'forget' this.



JudahMaccabbi, no matter where I looked (encyclopedias, googling "first suicide bombers" and other combination of words) I have not found what you claim. I am very sceptical that the link you have given (Studies in the Word of God) is correct.


Google this: British suicide muslim pigskin



Also your site has a big header with "Islamic invasion", yet the Arabs was in majority before the huge European Jewish influx after 1917, during the British era.


That website discussed Islamic invasion of the US.



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 12:15 PM
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so, wait, let's go back a little.........

are you saying that this:




Prophet Muhammad said when he came back from a war: ((We came back from the smallest Jihad to the Biggest Jihad. The Jihad of the hawa (wrong desire) and nafs (the quarrel self).


means that Muhammad was regretful for waging the war he had just returned from? is waging war the (hawa) WRONG DESIRE?

waging war and (nafs) self conflict are the Biggest Jihads that can take place within a Muslim?

if Jihad is a struggle (which i've always heard is the correct translation), isn't it inferred that it is internal? always meaning some sort of self conflict? does this mean that the word has been used incorrectly by both sides of this war on terrorism? even used incorrectly by Osama and the others?

this to the comments about Iraqi oil:

come on guys, if the US was stealing Iraqi oil, i would not be paying $2.18/gal for it in Texas. that's just complete and total farce.




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