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Originally posted by Muaddib
First, i just have to wonder why in the world would anyone bring up in this discussion the pollution that people are breathing in some cities... i just have to wonder what in the world does that have to do with Islam.... and i just have to wonder who in their right mind would claim that nature can differentiate who it want's to kill.....
Second of all, and just to try to bring some sense into that mind of yours... every creature that lives dies... It is the natural process of life, whether or not they are breathing pollution...and air does not kill, it keeps you alive....if you don't think so...as I said several times...stop breathing....
BTW, appart from not knowing much about biology you also seem to have some problems with mathematics... or worse, don't even know how to use a calculator.... 415,000 people dead since 2003 to 2005 does not make it 1,700 people dying a year.... Neither does over 2,000,000 divided by 17 years from 1983 to 2000 makes it 1,700 people dead a year, but 117,647 people dying a year as a result from jihad in one country alone.
Not only that but for some reason you want us to believe now also that this jihad has something to do with the war in Iraq...yet, you failed to notice that this is not the first jihad or the first time that they have killed people because of their religion....
The war in Iraq did not start in 1983.....just a fact i thought you should know....and there have been other jihads before 1983 also, going all the way to the 7th century AD... So proclaiming that jihad is a result, or part of the result from the war in iraq is absurd...to say the least.
BTW, if you want to discuss "the virtues of jihad" then stay on topic instead of talking about your deluded opinions on biology or math....
This thread was never about biology in case you dind't know...so keep on topic please.
[edit on 9-5-2005 by Muaddib]
Originally posted by shots
Originally posted by Islam
I am being locigal. Just how hard would it be to excommunicate them from the church? Or don't you understand what I am saying?
Here is the simplist of terms. Why don't the leaders of Islam kick them out of the islamic faith. Or are you sying there are no leaders? I mean if it is a true religion surely it has a chain of command in the church somewhere right?
I didn’t say scholars are not important!
But I said that scholars have limits that if they passed it they ill not be considered as scholars at all.
Their limits are the general rules, ideas, and theologies of the Quran.
If any scholar, I don’t care who, say any thing that contradicts Quran and claim that it is ISLAM, then his saying will be thrown in the nearest garbage!! If he believes so and say that what I believe but it is not ISLAM, then his ideas figure him and his followers not ISLAM!
For example, some groups of Turkish Islamic scholars allow women to not wear the scarf! This idea contradicts CLEAR VERSES from the Quranand has very weak proves if any and thus it is not accepted in Islam at all and all other scholars oppose that.
Another example is BinLaden! He is NOT a scholar even!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is clear you do not understand a word I said. I never once mentioned any scholars. I am talking about the leaders of Islam. Now I doubt you can answer the question, however I will give it one last try.
Why don't the leaders of Islam kick them out of the islamic faith. Or are you saying there are no leaders?
[edit on 4/25/2005 by shots]
Originally posted by Muaddib
Originally posted by Islam
Go back to what I said earlier. I said there are 3 reasons to declare a war against someone and one of it is if we are prevented from spreading our religion.
The proof of that is not in the Quran but in prophet Muhammad’s quote.
There are several points that i want to touch, but i will leave this for some other time as it is a bit too late for me. What i do want to touch at this time is what you said above.
If you are prevented from spreading Islam, you can declare war on some country, or group. It should be allowed then for other people or groups, to spread their message and teach about their own religions to Muslims, or is this also considered as a war against Islam?
Originally posted by Odium
The movement that people like Bin Laden are a part of was denounced by Islam hundreds of years ago. It was also condemned after September the 11th and up till Iraq. Once Iraq happenend a majority of Islamic people felt the war was unjust and should
Originally posted by devilwasp
I said iraq may have influenced the present jihad, your going off on tangents.
Tell that to the over 2.4 million people killed by the government of Sudan waging jihad, first on Christians, which killed about 2 million people and which started in 1983. The second jihad of Sudan started in 2003, and it is still ongoing, it has killed over 415,000 people already. That's one country.
Then there is Nigeria where Muslims are killing Muslims, as one group says the other are not really Muslims, then tehre Is kashmir where Muslim extremists are waging a war against Hindu and all other non-Muslims, Palestine, Phillipines, etc.... There are many countries in which Muslim extremists are waging a war agains all other people, including those who we call moderate Muslims.
There are many extremist Islamic countries, and millions of extremists waging the same jihad that Osama Bin Laden is waging.
Originally posted by Muaddib
How did it influence any jihad if jihad has been waged in the same countries it is still going on since before the war....
The WTC was also attacked back in 1993, in case you didn't know...also because of an Islamic extremist...
BTW...why is it that Islamic extremists are trying to attack countries such as France and Germany, when they have been against this war from the very beginning?....
Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Kashmir? Please, before you make yourself look like a fool, get some research done in regards to this region of the world and why it's being fought over. If anything, it's been the Hindu extremists that are commiting more acts of agression than the Muslims you so blatantly hate.
I think you may want to substantiate these numbers of the current number of deaths that have transpired since 2003, as you may also want to be more critical as to why this 'ethnic cleansing' is occuring in this part of the world. You have a habit of thinking very black and white, and it's been your demise many times before.
There is a difference in Islamists commiting acts of terrorism, and Islamists commiting acts of terrorism in the name of Islam.
Islam does not creat terrorism; Sociopolitical unrest creats terrorism; a sense of opression by a soveriegn, or foriegn soveriegn creats terrorism; anxiety against certain praticularities of the land create terrorism.
Jihad Through History
The current understanding of jihad is more extreme than at any prior time in Islamic history.
This extremism suggests that the Muslim world is going through a phase, one that must be endured and overcome, comparable to analogously horrid periods in Germany, Russia, and China.
Jihad having evolved steadily until now, doubtless will continue to do so in the future.
Hi Islam and welcome. I have a question. Are you telling me that if I tell my children, my nieces and nephews that we are not of this faith and therefore they are not to take it up or follow the beliefs of your faith that I am preventing people from being informed about Islam and therefore it is Ok to kill me? (not saying you personally) I am not trying to offend anyone just trying to figure out where the proverbial (or possibly literal) line may be.
Originally posted by GlobalDisorder
I beleive that muslims as a whole shouldnt be treated as if they are all like Osama, and Zarqawi, the American Pawns in this game.
But for all the suicide bombings, beheadings, attacks, people lost in BALI, 911 and so forth JIHAD IS something I think should have ALL its members gathered up, sent to TASMANIA along with all mass murderers and rapists and let what ever country perform nuclear testingo n the island..
solve a few problems.
the main 1,
1/ remove INBREEDING from the genepool
2/ remove Jihad from the genepool
3/ reduce costs in prison systems.
Man, im stil trying to find a negative to this idea!