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A question for the masons

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posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 12:37 PM
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Freemasonry has its own pope




posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 12:37 PM
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First of all. You "freemasons" dont like my info, Geeze I wonder why, but now u are pulling me up on my spelling, sorry Senwack but you must be a dictionary to notice all this BS. You will need to eat your own words here.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
Freemasonry has its own pope


DRIVER: WHY CAN'T YOU ANSWER MY CHALLENGE??

Is this what you do when you're back is against the wall? Make dumb jokes?



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 12:41 PM
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www.freedomdomain.com...

Same link as before


[edited entire post, a cut n paste, w/o comment, from the same page thats already been cited - nygdan]

[edit on 13-4-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by Zystesxt9
in 1826, William Morgan, an American Freemason
who had written a book entitled "Illustrations of Freemasonry


Everything you stated above has been talked about for YEARS on this forum. it's pllayed out, come up with something else.

And by the way "NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM" Means "A new Order For The Ages", NOT "New World Order". Just another example of how you try to twist facts to suit your agenda.



[edit on 13-4-2005 by sebatwerk]
[edited big quote - nygdan]

[edit on 13-4-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 12:44 PM
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Hey Seb, was it not you, who said, " show me some info to some of MY claims, and I ( YOU) will shut up"?

if not sorry .

if so, when do u propose tom shut up?
it doesnt matter how much info u guys get... You will always defend your truth... That is only human.
And Ilks will do the same.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by Zystesxt9
Hey Seb, was it not you, who said, " show me some info to some of MY claims, and I ( YOU) will shut up"?

if not sorry .

if so, when do u propose tom shut up?
it doesnt matter how much info u guys get... You will always defend your truth... That is only human.
And Ilks will do the same.


I said I would shut up if you could provide CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE of your claims. Up until now, you have done no such thing, only heresay, circumstance, supposition and assumption. Read the terms and conditions.


[edit on 13-4-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
Freemasonry is all ancient Egyption knowledge and advanced solar knowledge.... the kind of information that has been sucked out of circulation and kept to the mystery schools like Freemasonry.

Also, they worship the Baophomot, have a whole structure and titles that seem like theres a religion goin on.


One word.

P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C.

You repeat these retarded "arguments" (I hate to even call them that) that have been repeated (much like you are doing) here a million and a half times and (true to form for folks like you) give NOTHING to back it up.

And who is Baophomot? B-A-P-H-O-M-E-T. Write it down.


What is interesting is that all these folks have all these problems with the image of baphomet and I'd be willing to bet 90% of them have NO IDEA what the symbolism means, who came up with it, or his significance as a thinker and philosopher of sorts.

Why is Baphomet considered to be a Satanic or evil symbol? Because of his upper body being that of a goat? The pentagram on his forehead? What you have to realize Driver old chum, is that all this Satanism crap is FAR OUTDATED by the symbols that everyone seems to associate with it. The symbols themselves have far deeper meanings than LaVey and his accolytes would have you believe (Do they even specify? I have a copy of the Satanic Bible on the old bookshelf, but I haven't even read the first page.).

Let's see what other crap you can regurgitate without having done any real research... I'm breathless with anticipation!


And you have ignored my challenges (as well as several others) yet AGAIN. Dude do you guys take a class on how to do this crap? Is there a "Trolling 101" course I haven't heard of or something?



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by Zystesxt9
in 1826, William Morgan, an American Freemason
who had written a book entitled "Illustrations of Freemasonry", was abducted and drowned in
Lake Ontario. Because of the existence of these books, as well as the murder scandal, there was a
nationwide furor resulting in the creation of an Anti-Masonic political party in 1829. After this
there was a temporary drop in membership in the lodges, but their control over the press soon
caused the anger to diminish.


www.masonicinfo.com...

Just to start. I'll get to the rest later, my time on ATS is limited.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 12:52 PM
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A Quote from 'the seb', "Everything you stated above has been talked about for YEARS on this forum. it's pllayed out, come up with something else. "
why dont you come up with a better answer son, this seems to be the way you guys answer every time us 'ilks' seem to come up with a valid answer. Why for years on these forums do you think this info has come up so many times, Its because the people are finally opening thier eyes to what sort BS you guys are about.
Crooks I say.
criminals even, you cant come up with one piece of evidence saying that these words are untrue.
I must go to work now, see you in 13 hours, and I hope you have something more interesting than the BS I have had to read tonight.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by Zystesxt9
why dont you come up with a better answer son, this seems to be the way you guys answer every time us 'ilks' seem to come up with a valid answer. Why for years on these forums do you think this info has come up so many times, Its because the people are finally opening thier eyes to what sort BS you guys are about.


Because there's no reason to repeat ourselvevs a hundred times when you can just get an answer to the same tired claims on other threads.



Crooks I say.
criminals even, you cant come up with one piece of evidence saying that these words are untrue.


Why is it up to me to prove your allegations are false? In THIS country, we are all innocent until proven guilty. And you have thus far NOT been able to prove us guilty. That's like me saying "Your mother is a whore. It's true because you can't prove me wrong!". I'm right, you can't prove me wrong, but I can't prove that what I say it true. Therefore it is undoubtedly false. The same goes for your claims about masonry. You cannot prove them to be true, therefore they are false.

Just the same empty claims and tired lies...[YAWN].

And you can call us crooks all you want, but our History speaks for itself. Nothing you say can change that. That would make YOU the crook and the LIAR. Try again when you can PROVE what you claim.


[edit on 13-4-2005 by sebatwerk]
[edited out troll comment, keep it about the issues, not each other - nygdan]

[edit on 13-4-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 01:15 PM
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The Baphomet Mythos

Central to the accusations brought against the Knights Templar was that they worshipped an idol named Baphomet. This idol is said to have taken the form of a head or sometimes a black cat. The Fifth category of accusations states the following:

V. That the brothers practiced idol worship of a cat or a head

That this one aspect of the Templars mythos, could generate so many theories as to its true origins is amazing. The interest in the Baphomet has survived over 600 years and taken many forms. The opinions on the Baphomet vary greatly from scholar to scholar and mystic path to mystic path. The purpose of this section is to shed some light on some of the theories and the connection, if any, to the

www.templarhistory.com...

In his 1972 science fiction novel, Baphomet's Meteor, French author Pierre Barbet crafts an entertaining story of alternative history about the Knights Templar and the demonic entity known as Baphomet. In the alternate dimension that is the province of Barbet's book, Baphomet is a stranded extraterrestrial whose alliance with the Templars provides them with the scientific edge and atomic weaponry to create an empire in order to serve Baphomet's outer-space motives.


Clearly the book is intended as a work of fiction, but Barbet's notion is no more far-fetched than some of the conspiracy theories that have been put forth in mainstream Templar literature over the last century and a half. Theories ranging from the Baphomet being a magical alchemy machine to the severed and mummified head of Jesus Christ.


www.templarhistory.com...

And the Templar Myths go on?



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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Good stuff my friend, but I was talking about Eliphas Levi. Perhaps he didn't "come up with" Baphomet, but he did elaborate and he drew this representation:



and here is a quote about his interpretation of the symbolism in his drawing:


from www.templarhistory.com...

Lévi's Drawing: An Examination
It is believed that within Lévi's Baphomet, are contained the dualistic nature of life and the male female aspects of creation. The image combines both male and female qualities; one arm masculine, one feminine; the breasts of a woman with a phallic object on its lap; one arm pointing skyward while one pointing down, perhaps a representation of the Hermetic axiom "As Above...So Below". The illustration also shows one arm points toward a white crescent moon the other towards a dark crescent moon, perhaps a representation of the waxing and waning phases of the moon but it could also represent the duality of good and evil. On the right arm is written "Solve" Solution and on the Left "Coagula" Coagulation. These are references found in alchemy a study that Lévi not only undertook but also wrote about in his books.

Here is what Eliphas Lévi had to say about the Baphomet image he drew.
My thanks go to Christian Joachim Hartmann for providing me with this translation from Lévi's book:

"The goat on the frontispiece carries the sign of the pentagram on the forehead, with one point at the top, a symbol of light, his two hands forming the sign of hermetism, the one pointing up to the white moon of Chesed, the other pointing down to the black one of Geburah. This sign expresses the perfect harmony of mercy with justice. His one arm is female, the other male like the ones of the androgyn of Khunrath, the attributes of which we had to unite with those of our goat because he is one and the same symbol. The flame of intelligence shining between his horns is the magic light of the universal balance, the image of the soul elevated above matter, as the flame, whilst being tied to matter, shines above it. The ugly beast's head expresses the horror of the sinner, whose materially acting, solely reponsible part has to bear the punishment exclusively; because the soul is insensitive according to its nature and can only suffer when it materializes. The rod standing instead of genitals symbolizes eternal life, the body covered with scales the water, the semi- circle above it the atmosphere, the feathers following above the volatile. Humanity is represented by the two breasts and the androgyn arms of this sphinx of the occult sciences."


Some ignorant fools just MUST see evil where there is none, frankly it makes me sad for them. There is so much more to the world and everything in it if only people will open their eyes or "take off their blinders" as our friend above so adamantly suggests we do.

I had blinders on for a long time pal, and now that I have removed them, my sight is returning slowly but surely. It's amazing what you can discover if you will only shut your mouth for a bit and watch, listen, and learn.


[edit on 13-4-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by Zystesxt9
in 1826, William Morgan, an American Freemason


Zytestes9, you puked all up earlier. It's filled with nonsense and 1/4 truths...doesn't prove anything. You aren't well, are you?

[edited big quote into little quote - nygdan]


[edit on 13-4-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by Zystesxt9
You will always defend your truth...


That we will. We WILL defend the truth....while you continue to lie.



And Ilks will do the same.


HA HA HA HA! Do you even know what the word "ilk" means? Do you understand the context in which it was originally used by me? I admire that you've taken it upon yourself to call yourself that...but the word is "trolls"



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by Zystesxt9
why dont you come up with a better answer son,


Interesting. I didn't know Sebatwerk was your son. Maybe I should be nicer to you out of respect then, since I like him. (Apologies Sebat...but I couldn't pass it up)



this seems to be the way you guys answer every time us 'ilks' seem to come up with a valid answer.


WHAT! Did I MISS something...one of the "ilks" (read: trolls) came up with a valid answer. I don't believe it. I WON'T believe it. It couldn't happen.

"ilks" BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!



Why for years on these forums do you think this info has come up so many times,


Because the ignorant refuse to believe the truth. They'd rather hear and believe something bad (that's human nature I suppose) And they've closed their minds so that when the truth is told they think it's some evil plot to hide something. That's why.



Its because the people are finally opening thier eyes to what sort BS you guys are about.
Crooks I say.


BWAHAHAHAHAHAH! Oh, STOP IT! You're killing me... I'm practically in the floor laughing. "Crooks I say" BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! That's hilarious.



criminals even, you cant come up with one piece of evidence saying that these words are untrue.


Apparently you cannot read.



I must go to work now,


They let school kids work? WOW. I thought there were child labor laws.



see you in 13 hours, and I hope you have something more interesting than the BS I have had to read tonight.


That's nothing NEAR what I hope...but I'm sure you log back on anyway...



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
Freemasonry has its own pope

How do you figure? Will you address the other questions or continue to evade them?


Zystesxt9
You "freemasons" dont like my info, Geeze I wonder why,

The posters who are masons, and the posters who are not masons, don't like your supposed 'info' because its false, and you don't seem to like it much either since you won't stand by it. Can you answer the questions?


it doesnt matter how much info u guys get

Not for nothing, but that wasn't information. That was a story. Information is the stuff that supports it. Anyway, how does the murder make freemasonry 'bad'? I mean, lets say that the murder happened. What of it? Its, what, some members of a single lodge who killed a guy? A crime? Yes, a horrible one, but commited by Freemasonry itself? Apparently not.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by senrak
Zytestes9, you puked all up earlier. It's filled with nonsense and 1/4 truths...doesn't prove anything. You aren't well, are you?


Well enough to copy and paste his post my dear Senrak. The following can be found at this site. The truly ominous aspect of this particular bit of plagiarism is that starts on the thirteenth paragraph of the page… Souljah even your fellow trolls are compromised…


Originally posted by Zystesxt9
in 1826, William Morgan, an American Freemason
who had written a book entitled "Illustrations of Freemasonry", was abducted and drowned in Lake Ontario.


[mod monkeys, not just for shortening quotes - nygdan]

[edit on 13-4-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Well enough to copy and paste his post my dear Senrak. The following can be found at this site.


Ah! I should have known the little troll was "gleaning" that nonsense when I saw such complicated words as "diminished" "Manifesto" etc.

...and from our ol' pal and lunatic David Icke no less.

"Curiouser and curiouser"



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 04:20 PM
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Alphonse Louis Constant - Roman Catholic Priest. A.K.A. Elias Levi. This was as close as he could get with translating his name into Hebrew, why he wanted to translate his name is not known.

He left the Priesthood because he fell in love?

In 1854 he moved to England where he met Arthur Edward Waite, occultist and magicican.

Over the next 30 years he wrote many occultist type papers on magic and ancient mysteries.

The baphomet was then made prominent by Leo Taxil , photographer and pornogarpher. Taxil is famous for the "Taxil Hoax" in which the picture drawn by Levi played a prominent role, as the front cover of what was supposed to be revelations from Albert Pike a prominent Freemason. It was in fact a pack of lies.

Taxil later made a full confession of the fraud that was supposed to be an expose' of Freemasonry. Thus the reports that suggested the baphomet was some kind of Masonic symbol were proved to be a total falsehood.



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