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A question for the masons

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posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 09:28 PM
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Famous Wayne.....

Prime example:

There is a young child in our area that has a debilitating disease....The Vol. Fire Dept. I'm on is taking donations for the childs treatment....Having not heard anything from my Lodge...I picked up the phone and called our Secretary....and just as I thought they weren't aware of the situation... next meeting I'll go and inform the Lodge...and guess what we'll donate money (how much I don't know) and probably do it through the collection that the Fire Dept. is doing....Nobody'll be none the wiser of where the money came from.....

We don't do it for the Pomp and Circumstance....we do it because we care.

[edit on 9-4-2005 by Golfie]




posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Listen, BAD APPLES are not always expelled from Freemasonry. I went out of my way to show there are exceptions, especially if you are a Billionaire!

That was the case with Ilia Pavlov, Bulgarian Billionaire (not a cent was earned, he had connections with the former Prime Minister and head of Secret Service, through marriage (SS) and Masonry.

And why is the Crime Lord still honored by Masons, because he was never convicted of a felony. Hmm, most Crime Bosses aren't, you know. Especially well-connected ones.

What happens is, they don't go to court for their crimes, they get killed. And Ilia Pavlov, 33 degree Worshipful Master was no exception, as he was gunned down after his first day of court testimony (hmmm, kinda means what he said that day HAS to be taken as the truth, even if it was just the lies he was paid to say, not knowing he would be killed).

If Masonry (and this shows that someone wants men of lesser character in Masonry) actually only cared about a Man's character, then they wouldn't have an excess of immoral rich white men in the Order, who only care about making money for themselves and EACH OTHER, which somehow counts as Brotherly Love? Please.


Well, by your reasoning, think of all of the Italian Mob heads that were catholic. Look at all the pedophiles discoverd in the past few years. You can not hold the RCC acountable for this.



posted on Apr, 10 2005 @ 02:40 AM
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Originally posted by Famous Wayne
There are a lot of lodges near my place of business. One of them is a Masonic lodge. With all of these lodges and with all of them trying to better mankind, you would think there would be a little more press on their accomplishments in the community.

Before we come to any deep conclusions I thought it might be a good idea to discover if anyone could name a recent community project by the Masons.


There's the nationwide Child ID program that the masons have spearheaded and are STILL working on, I believe it's called CHIP.

www.beukendaal915.org...
www.islipmasons.org...
www.freemason.org...

There's also the dozen or so Shriners hospitals that don't charge a cent to their patients. They also don't try to make it back through other means. It's supported 100% by masons.

www.shrinershq.org...

Or how about the various masonic charities RUN by masons?

Pennsylvania Masonic Foundation for Children:
www.pagrandlodge.org...

California's Masonic Student Assistance Program (MSAP):
www.freemason.org...

The Masonic Angel Fund™:
www.masonicinfo.com...

Georgia Freemason's Secret Santa Project:
www.glofga.org...


And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Took me ONE SEARCH to find those, and there were several THOUSAND more. I just picked the first few links that came up. Do you understand now what masonry is about!?!? THIS is masonry, what you see in those links. That is what masons can be defined as, that is what masonry is all about, that is what masons live for.


[edit on 10-4-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Apr, 10 2005 @ 03:24 AM
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I guess the question is:

What have you done for the community, Sebat?

What has your Lodge organized, and what are you working on?

All other members may respond also.

I'll go first. I donate my time to teach the disadvantaged how to properly use a computer. It's a thankless job.



posted on Apr, 10 2005 @ 03:38 AM
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Originally posted by akilles
I guess the question is:

What have you done for the community, Sebat?

What has your Lodge organized, and what are you working on?

All other members may respond also.

I'll go first. I donate my time to teach the disadvantaged how to properly use a computer. It's a thankless job.


As a lodge, in the past year, we have:
1. Most recently we've done beach cleanup two separate times, since we are only 2 blocks from the beach.
2. Volunteered to run a special memorial day tribute at veteran's memorial.
3. Volunteered to set up a special veteran's day tribute as well.

Individually, in the past year, I have:
1. Volunteered to work in our community's annual 10k run.
2. Volunteered to help my local high school run a kid's health and fitness day.
3. Volunteered to develop my local high-school's intranet website and help set up network email for students and teachers, as well as develop a system for teachers to submit grades online.
4. Volunteered to help work a special Thanksgiving day dinner for homeless people in my community. I'VE DONE THIS EVERY YEAR FOR THE PAST 5 YEARS, INSTEAD OF EATING DINNER WITH MY FAMILY.

But don't mind me Akilles, you're the boy scout.



posted on Apr, 10 2005 @ 08:19 AM
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Akilles....

No where have I found any references to Masonry as either a civic or a service organization. While most lodges do things in their communitys to help both individuals in need and other cheritable organizations it is being done on the local level. Usually proposed by one of the brothers.

Masonry does sponcer charities at the regional and national level but contrabutions are strictly volintary and individual.

There is more support for community based functions at the local level, as a "masonic lodge", primarily to increace our visablity in the community. While I've not been informed I suspect that this is to try and reduce the "vail of secrecy". For the last 28 years my lodge both as individuals and as a "lodge" has been involved in most cheritable functions in my community, but never have we asked for any recognition of this effort, nor any credit for our effort "as masons". Until very reasently all of our efforts have tended to be anonymous. Most all of the masons I know personal are not intrested in public recognition for their charitable actions.

The general attitude has been "get help where it is needed" not do it for the recognition. That is still the prevaling attitude, but lately it has been suggested that we show publicly what we have been doing.

Traditionaly we have never resopnded to outside criticism, but that may be changing, as demonstrated by the masonic members of this board.

I'm sure that if you look around at any communit charitable funtion in your local area you will find a masonic presence.



posted on Apr, 10 2005 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by akilles
I guess the question is:
What have you done for the community, Sebat?
What has your Lodge organized, and what are you working on?
All other members may respond also.


Our Lodge does quite a few things. Among them, we hold an annual dinner, the benefits of which go to the local "safe house" for battered women. We regularly give to groups like United Way, the Salvation Army, etc. Our local Shrine club continually raises money for the Shriners Hospitals (If you are ever near one of our hospitals, please stop in an take a tour...it's well worth your time. I can't do it with dry eyes)
Along with that, we give to other Masonic charities, such as some on the list I sent a link to earlier and some that Sebatwerk mentioned.



I'll go first. I donate my time to teach the disadvantaged how to properly use a computer.
Highly commendable!



It's a thankless job.

Sure. All volunteer work is...but isn't it satisfying? That's why we do it, right?



posted on Apr, 10 2005 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk


There's the nationwide Child ID program that the masons have spearheaded and are STILL working on, I believe it's called CHIP.

www.beukendaal915.org...
www.islipmasons.org...
www.freemason.org...


Sebatwerk would you be Micro Chipped?.

[edit on 10-4-2005 by ThePunisher]
[WARN IS FOR U2U, NOT POST]

[edit on 10-4-2005 by RANT]



posted on Apr, 10 2005 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by ThePunisher

Originally posted by sebatwerk


There's the nationwide Child ID program that the masons have spearheaded and are STILL working on, I believe it's called CHIP.

www.beukendaal915.org...
www.islipmasons.org...
www.freemason.org...


Sebatwerk would you be Micro Chipped?.


You know, I'm real curious to know what else you wrote that got you warned and deleted, but I can only imagine it was more of the regular mindless, ignorant dribble you spew out onto these threads day after day. Regardless, until you DO SOME RESEARCH as to what the Masonic Child ID program IS, I will not answer your RIDICULOUS questions. If you want to have a SERIOUS conversation about a SERIOUS charitable volunteer effort to help society, then I would gladly converse with you.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 06:43 AM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by ThePunisher
Sebatwerk would you be Micro Chipped?.


You know, I'm real curious to know what else you wrote that got you warned and deleted, but I can only imagine it was more of the regular mindless, ignorant dribble you spew out onto these threads day after day.


Could the whole Secret Societies forum consider a fresh start in attitude perhaps? Not that members don't have legitimate complaints about other member's behavior, as it's a pretty extreme and confrontational forum to begin with, but I'd like to propose a bit of amnesty for all shades of guilty conscious. That means we expect better behavior from others and ourselves, and forgive (or forget rather) bad behavior in the plast so as not to prejudice or goad going forward.

ThePunisher can't respond at the moment as he's earned an enforced break from ATS as part of a plea bargain apology once he realized how important access to these forums are to him. In that line of thinking, it would be nice if everyone considered the value of a place where all share the same objectives... to learn more about issues (regardless of position on those issues) through interaction with others. To which I'll add, respectful interaction with others even in the absence of respect for ideas.

So let's debate, discuss, and go forward on some common ground if at all possible. That being, we like this place. We appreciate the input of others. And we'll be respectful of each other (even when we strongly disagree).

In the exception to the rule (trolls), the best advice remains: do not engage, do not goad, please report.

Sorry to go off topic here, and no need for anyone to respond to this except in action going forward.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Student
As for the masonic connection being an advantage in court. In the US, a man is considered inocent until proven guilty.


Proven like let's say Guantanamo Bay, Patriotic Act I,II?

Brothers are obligated to help within their powers and status in society to other bros. It' common knowledge and standard practice.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by yanchek
Brothers are obligated to help within their powers and status in society to other bros. It' common knowledge and standard practice.


No it's not, you're absolutely mistaken. We are obligated to help a WORTHY brother, which means only brothers who deserve our help. Certainly, a brother does not deserve my help if he does not ABSOLUTELY need it (ie: wanting a better job when he already has a good one). Also, if he needs my help because of a wrong-doing, such as breaking the law and asking me to bail him out... no chance. You need to understand, this is not an unconditional obligation to help our brothers.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 12:26 AM
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Text Black
SHEEESH, it takes me by absolute surprise that the so called freemasons in this thread actually beleive that they r correct in what they r about, what a load of old bollocks...
Here is senrak again quoting one thing and laughing it all off, and then turning around and doing exactly the same thing himself. whatta joke all of this is, can u not see the trees for the forest, man, I just don't believe what i am reading here. This is one of Senraks quotes? 'Open-mindedness at it's absolute best. Can't pull the wool over ol' Driver's eyes. He's got it going on.

Ignorance is truly bliss for these happy folks.

Gotta run....a nice cold, frosty beverage awaits me at yon tavern. . . and maybe a fine stogie to go with it, where I can reflect upon the fascinating posts of Driver, Akilles, MNecros, Soul-jah and their ilk.

On second thought I'd be better off and learn more if I went somewhere and watched paint dry'

This is truly remarkable that if indeed you are as you write that you are, a 32nd degree freemason. WOW and you are a man of God? you are obviously wearing not blinders but glasses so black you cannot visualise what you are doing here??? for once in your so called Freemasonic life, Take a look at your own garbage before you identify someone elses. PLEASE.
I have to take a stand with Driver, Akilles, MNecros, Soul-jah and their ilk, because of what these SO CALLED FREEMASONS and their ilk are posting here, where is the Light of the masonic lodge? It surely isnt in this thread, because you for one are not defending the rights of true Freemasonry, you are only equipping the 'ilk' with what they need to persecute you more.
You remind me of a child who has many toys. but the one and only toy you wish to play, is one that is attached to your person...
I know that is harsh and I dont care if I offend, cos there aint nuthing more better than the truth from anothers perspective.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 12:49 AM
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I have also heard from a source of whom is a great friend of mine, AND who is a practising freemason, That, if a brother needs help in ANY way, they are helped.
Me? I am a practising solitary witch.
I was invited into a Freemasonic lodge about 3 yrs ago, but then had an amazing discovery, when a cd rom appeared on my doorstep one night. when I opened this cd of info up, it was all about the hidden agendas of not only Freemasonry, but many things. which has strengthened my own belief system. I dont give a hoot, what anyone thinks of what I do, But I have an understanding with my own higher inner self that what I believe in, is indeed MY TRUTH.
and that is all I need... to be on my path.
Blessed Be to all of you.
Infinite Love is the only Truth
Everything else is part of the Illusion
quote by none other than David Icke.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 01:06 AM
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Originally posted by Zystesxt9
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I have also heard from a source of whom is a great friend of mine, AND who is a practising freemason, That, if a brother needs help in ANY way, they are helped.
Me? I am a practising solitary witch.
I was invited into a Freemasonic lodge about 3 yrs ago, but then had an amazing discovery, when a cd rom appeared on my doorstep one night. when I opened this cd of info up, it was all about the hidden agendas of not only Freemasonry, but many things. which has strengthened my own belief system. I dont give a hoot, what anyone thinks of what I do, But I have an understanding with my own higher inner self that what I believe in, is indeed MY TRUTH.
and that is all I need... to be on my path.
Blessed Be to all of you.
Infinite Love is the only Truth
Everything else is part of the Illusion
quote by none other than David Icke.


I hope you realize that THIS is exactly why you read such posting from us. We are ABSOLUTELY SICK TO DEATH of people like you who spread the above LIES about our fraternity. ABSOLUTELY SICK and we've wasted LONG HOURS and LONG NIGHTS trying to explain to PEOPLE LIKE YOU the virtues of MASONRY and why what you guys are posting is A LIE, but you do not listen. We post evidence, examples, links, references, ABSOLUTE UNDENIABLE PROOF, but YOU DO NOT CARE. So we don't care. We don't try, and we resort to simply making light of the situation. YOU GUYS ARE LAUGHABLE, and that's why we laugh.

By the way, I read on another post something you posted:


David Icke sums it up in one big foul swoop for myself, and a few friends I have.


I think that tells us everything we need to know about your so-called "cd full of the truth about the masonic agenda". Laughable. May I remind you that our purpose here is to DENY IGNORANCE, not SPREAD it.


[edit on 12-4-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 02:18 AM
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Seb', I apologise for the fact, that like Mr David Icke said in his Book 'The Children Of The Matrix' , that most of the Freemasons' are blind of what is going on, because most of them are in only the lower degrees of Freemasonry, and they don't get to see what it is l;ike at the top. Now I realise the difference between the so called 32nd degree, and the 33rd degree, It is the 33rd degree freemasons that David Icke goes on about.
I don't wish to criticize you as a person, but only for the fact that what IS going on behind the closed circle of the 33rd degree FreeMasons.
Which in conclusion to my earlier comments made, Quote " I dont give a hoot, what anyone thinks of what I do, But I have an understanding with my own higher inner self that what I believe in, is indeed MY TRUTH. "
My only point now is to your comment due to being able to laugh at the normal fellow ILK's (as you FM's like to call us), UR QUOTE "YOU GUYS ARE LAUGHABLE, and that's why we laugh." and " May I remind you that our purpose here is to DENY IGNORANCE, not SPREAD it." un quote.
You want to take a look in the mirror every now and then, because you are really only laughing at yourselves. TRUE
your second quote should read, " May I remind you that our purpose here is to ignore the deniable facts and laugh at anyone who is outside of our mind field" TRUE???
Now thats what I call laughable, If you truly look between the lines you have written, you will the lighter side of Funny.
You not only want to believe in what ever it is that makes your organisation a noteable cause to be correct, You also want to believe (like all the fundamental religions out there) that wearing blinders is in fashion, but it aint. take them off for just one day, and take a look from someone elses point of view, walk a mile in their shoes, then come back here and laugh at me again.
Your laughter is only yours, I don't own it, and therefore it is not mine.
But you take these threads as your own because of your righteous attitude to your Lodge. You defend what you know as your own truth.
Only if you learned that is more to the LIGHT than switch to turn it on!
Blessed Be Sebatwerk
and thank-you for your lessons today. I appreciate learning something new each day.
and this has been my pleasure.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 02:24 AM
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oops I apologise for this such short note, but, who exactly do you regard as being your enemies.?????????


"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it."

If one is to walk in the light of God, is he not supposed to grant his enemies LOVE. as opposed to ridicule them. That comment is one I would have thought to have come from the mouth of your most Gracious Most high Grand chancellor Bush.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by Zystesxt9
SHEEESH, it takes me by absolute surprise that the so called freemasons in this thread actually beleive that they r correct in what they r about, what a load of old bollocks...


You are ignorant, rude, and waaaaay out of your depth. And what exactly do you mean by 'so-called'? We are called freemasons. What a foolish thing to say.


I don't wish to criticize you as a person, but only for the fact that what IS going on behind the closed circle of the 33rd degree FreeMasons.


Come on then Zystesxt9, put us out of our misery. Please tell a lowly 3rd degree mason what really goes on in the 'closed circle of the 33rd degree FreeMasons'.

I'd really like to know.

And I'd like to know how you know, given it's (apparant) closed nature.

C'mon - we're meant to be denying ignorance here, not posting baseless claims with no substance or any backup.

Now's your chance to 'wow' us all.

[edit on 12-4-2005 by Trinityman]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by Zystesxt9
SHEEESH, it takes me by absolute surprise that the so called freemasons in this thread actually beleive that they r correct in what they r about, what a load of old bollocks...


You are ignorant, rude, and waaaaay out of your depth. And what exactly do you mean by 'so-called'? We are called freemasons. What a foolish thing to say.


I don't wish to criticize you as a person, but only for the fact that what IS going on behind the closed circle of the 33rd degree FreeMasons.


Come on then Zystesxt9, put us out of our misery. Please tell a lowly 3rd degree mason what really goes on in the 'closed circle of the 33rd degree FreeMasons'.

I'd really like to know.

And I'd like to know how you know, given it's (apparant) closed nature.

C'mon - we're meant to be denying ignorance here, not posting baseless claims with no substance or any backup.

Now's your chance to 'wow' us all.

[edit on 12-4-2005 by Trinityman]


Trinityman, a tip of the hat to you! I find Zystesxt9's posts far too ridiculous and pathetic to even merit a response. Sounds like the garbage Dribbler used to write during his short-lived time on ATS


Regards,



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 10:00 AM
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As I went through some of the links posted by our Masonic members and others, I was delighted to discover some community involvement. However, I do have to say that these lodges seem more like secret santas when it comes to this type of involvement. This is not bad, just different. Giving to the community secretly or openly is great. My first comments were meant to draw out some of these contributions, since it appears that the Masons want to be a silent partner in the community. We should all be able to appreciate programs like CHIP, that help to protect our children.

I wonder why they need the mystery and the secret santa posture to accomplish their mission. Purhaps their is a bit of a Robin Hood situation that exists within the Masonic and other lodge type organizations that they wish to protect.

Also, every organization has "bad apples". If leaders of the lodges are able to manipulate a few bad apples into doing something characteristically good for the community, they are probably very creative and intelligent.




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