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A question for the masons

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posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 10:32 AM
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I think that its a rather long standing practice amoung biblicists that charity is best done annonymously, that way you don't even benefit in the recognition, and its 'truly' charitable. Since masonry is apparently concerned with personal betterment and the like, its perhaps no surprise that these sorts of details are considered.




posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
I think that its a rather long standing practice amoung biblicists that charity is best done annonymously, that way you don't even benefit in the recognition, and its 'truly' charitable. Since masonry is apparently concerned with personal betterment and the like, its perhaps no surprise that these sorts of details are considered.


Indeed, and the reasons for that is to eliminate the possibility that Giving is being done for any reason other than pure altruism. Unfortunately in this day and age it has become necessary to make available the charitable activities of individual Grand Lodges to the public in order to counteract inaccurate critisism that freemasonry only looks after itself. However this will not include the charitable work undertaken by millions of freemasons outside of freemasonry, taking the lessons that we are taught and applying them to our everyday lives.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by Zystesxt9
Seb', I apologise for the fact, that like Mr David Icke said in his Book 'The Children Of The Matrix' , that most of the Freemasons' are blind of what is going on, because most of them are in only the lower degrees of Freemasonry, and they don't get to see what it is l;ike at the top. Now I realise the difference between the so called 32nd degree, and the 33rd degree, It is the 33rd degree freemasons that David Icke goes on about.


That MYTH/ LIE has been disproven MILLIONS of times by myself, and also by several "high-ranking" freemasons on this site, such as Senrak. First thing, THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS RANK IN MASONRY. We are ALL brothers, that's why its a FRATERNITY. I am a 3rd degree mason, and THAT is the highest rank any mason can get. Any other degree is an APPENDANT DEGREE, and is in addition to being a 3rd degree Master Mason.



I don't wish to criticize you as a person, but only for the fact that what IS going on behind the closed circle of the 33rd degree FreeMasons.
Which in conclusion to my earlier comments made, Quote " I dont give a hoot, what anyone thinks of what I do, But I have an understanding with my own higher inner self that what I believe in, is indeed MY TRUTH. "


But you have NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER abbout what youre claiming!!! You are just repeating it here because you read it on David icke's website or books!! Do some research for yourself! Icke is NOT a mason, how the heck would HE know?? Gimme a break dude...



You not only want to believe in what ever it is that makes your organisation a noteable cause to be correct, You also want to believe (like all the fundamental religions out there) that wearing blinders is in fashion, but it aint. take them off for just one day, and take a look from someone elses point of view, walk a mile in their shoes, then come back here and laugh at me again.
Your laughter is only yours, I don't own it, and therefore it is not mine.
But you take these threads as your own because of your righteous attitude to your Lodge. You defend what you know as your own truth.
Only if you learned that is more to the LIGHT than switch to turn it on!
Blessed Be Sebatwerk
and thank-you for your lessons today. I appreciate learning something new each day.
and this has been my pleasure.



I CHALLENGE you to come up with ONE PIECE of evidence or conclusive proof for the claims you have made today. JUST ONE. If you can do that, I will FOREVER shut up and publically announce that you are right and I'm wrong. but you won't do that, because the fact of the matter is that THERE IS NO EVIDENCE FOR THIS, BECAUSE IT'S NOT TRUE.

I've dealt with your kind before, and I've asked your kind to provide evidence for the SAME claims, and nobody ever has. All I've gotten are excuses as to why they cannot. The simple truth is that you will not provide any evidence either, because wat you are claiming is not true. Take it from me, a REAL Freemason. And if not me, then take if from Senrak a "High-Ranking" Freemason, as you like to think exists.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by Zystesxt9
oops I apologise for this such short note, but, who exactly do you regard as being your enemies.?????????

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it."


If you were to read below that quote, you would notice that it was not I, but rather Voltaire, that made that remark. I just think it applies to my situation here at ATS, as all the guys who make these absurd claims against Freemasonry are indeed ridiculous. They're not my enemies, I have nothing againnst them, but they are indeed silly.



[edit on 12-4-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 02:39 PM
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Right lets see how rediculous we are for making such claims of Freemasonry.

. Some of the biggest criminals, gangsters, phsycho's and serial killers in history have been high ranking Freemasons and lodge grandmasters.

. TONS of real tyrants and scheming buggers throught history were Freemasons including the people today who are unfolding this New World Order agenda day after day.

. Alot of the symbolism and ritual you do seems Satanic and dark.

. So many world events... negative ones, have been tied directly to the doings of Freemasonry.

So bearing that in mind, we are not being rediculous or absurd or cattle-minded to call Freemasonry bad.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
Right lets see how rediculous we are for making such claims of Freemasonry.


OK...let's do that.



. Some of the biggest criminals, gangsters, phsycho's and serial killers in history have been high ranking Freemasons and lodge grandmasters.


Prove that. Besides there are NO "Lodge Grandmasters" The Lodge officer is the Master. The State Grand Lodge president is the Grand Master. That's such an easy thing to figure out if you use a search engine.



. TONS of real tyrants and scheming buggers throught history were Freemasons including the people today who are unfolding this New World Order agenda day after day.


Says you. Prove it.



. Alot of the symbolism and ritual you do seems Satanic and dark.


How do YOU know? Ever taken part in Masonic Ritual? Have YOU ever PERSONALLY attended a meeting of the Masonic Order???? Well, HAVE YOU????? Or are you like the rest of the spreaders of hate and untruth here....you believe whatever negative things you hear? (That'd be my guess about you from what you've posted in the past)

Prove what you say.



. So many world events... negative ones, have been tied directly to the doings of Freemasonry.


[sigh] Prove that. You're saying so doesn't make it so.



So bearing that in mind, we are not being rediculous or absurd or cattle-minded to call Freemasonry bad.


"Rediculous?" That is ridiculous! Absurd is a GOOD descriptive word for what you're being. I can think of some others but I doubt you'd understand.

Blanket statements about Freemasonry have been used here over and over. PROVE SOMETHING FOR A CHANGE !! ! ! ! ! ! ! Geez!


[edit on 12-4-2005 by senrak]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
Right lets see how rediculous we are for making such claims of Freemasonry.


OK, let's!


. Some of the biggest criminals, gangsters, phsycho's and serial killers in history have been high ranking Freemasons and lodge grandmasters.


Like who? I want events, perpetrators, lodge affiliations and dates please. Shouldn't be too much trouble since you state it as fact. Back it up or shut it up.


. TONS of real tyrants and scheming buggers throught history were Freemasons including the people today who are unfolding this New World Order agenda day after day.


Like who? Names? Methinks you are a parrot, and not even a good one. More like a parakeet.


. Alot of the symbolism and ritual you do seems Satanic and dark.


Really?! How about this?


from www.gaiaguys.net...

Prelate opens New Testament at St John I.

Sov: Excellent and Perfect Prelate, the Chapter being open, what remains to be done?

Prel, gives 3rd sign: To respect the decrees of providence, to render worship to God alone, and with all humility and patience to endeavour to recover the Word. Drops sign.

Sov: Yes, Princes, that shall be our aim. Do you, Excellent and Perfect Prelate, invoke a blessing on our labours.

All place right hand on left breast.

Prel: Almighty and everlasting God, give unto us the increase of Faith, Hope and Charity; and, that we may obtain that which Thou dost promise, make us to love that which Thou dost command, through Jesus Christ, our great Emmanuel.

All: Amen. All drop sign.


Now, this isn't the exact ritual, but I have it on good authority that it's pretty close. VERY satanic, yes?
Give me a break.




. So many world events... negative ones, have been tied directly to the doings of Freemasonry.


Such as? What events? How were they "tied directly to the doings of Freemasonry"? Hmm?? I'm waiting, but I'm not holding my breath.


So bearing that in mind, we are not being rediculous or absurd or cattle-minded to call Freemasonry bad.


What is ridiculous is how you will squirm around or simply ignore our challenges to back up what you say.

Sebatwerk, I dig the new sig.




[edit on 4/12/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
Right lets see how rediculous we are for making such claims of Freemasonry.

. Some of the biggest criminals, gangsters, phsycho's and serial killers in history have been high ranking Freemasons and lodge grandmasters.


Don't you learn?? Don't just TELL us, PROVE IT to us. Give us ONE example.



. TONS of real tyrants and scheming buggers throught history were Freemasons including the people today who are unfolding this New World Order agenda day after day.


LIKE WHO!?!?!? you can't name one single person, can you? A blind man could see that you're claims are absurd.



. Alot of the symbolism and ritual you do seems Satanic and dark.


Oh please, all the symbolism is tied into the bible and Christianity. REAL Satanic. Have you ever seen one of our rituals? or are you just repeating what you read somewhere else? Gimme a break, you're nothing but a troll. You have NO idea what youre talking about.



. So many world events... negative ones, have been tied directly to the doings of Freemasonry.


GIVE ME ONE EXAMPLE!!!
I can give you dozens of examples of GOOD world events that have occurred thanks to Freemasons. Can you give me JUST ONE negative event? And don't just make something up, PROVE IT occurred because of Freemasonry.



So bearing that in mind, we are not being rediculous or absurd or cattle-minded to call Freemasonry bad.


Actually, you are. The fact that you have not provided evidence of any of your claims tells all of us that you are simply repeating what you've read elsewhere. You're a parrot. Or like Axeman said, a parakeet. Think for yourself for once, sheep.

CAN YOU PROVE ANY OF THE GARBAGE YOU JUST POSTED!?!?!? Let's see you prove ONE of your claims. I CHALLENGE you to conclusively prove just one of the things you've posted. Making empty claims won't fly around here, Drivel. We who deny ignorance require a little more than a troll's word to believe something.

Moderators already closed one thread because you failed to back up your claims. Now you're doing the same on this thread. Are you a man, or a little sheep? Can you answer my challenge and prove your claims? or are you just going to keep repeating what you see on other websites?

Until you do prove your claims UNDENIABLY, stop lying about Freemasonry.


[edit on 12-4-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by The Axeman
Sebatwerk, I dig the new sig.



Thanks Axe. When it comes to people like Drivel, I think Voltaire speaks for all of us.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 05:24 PM
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Here's proof of my claim of serial killers & phsychos being Masons...

Paul Bernardo - Phsycho serial killer & rapist

jack the Ripper

Tim Mc Veigh

Brother Napoleon Bonaparte - Hegemonic dictator and destroyer of Europe was he not?


Grand Master Guiseppi Mazzini 33° Founder of Italian Freemasonry Revolutionary Terrorist Leader Sicilian Gangster Mafia Founder

Gavrillo Princip Member of Black Hand Masonry Assassin of Heir to Austro-Hungarian Throne The Destruction and Slaughter of a Generation

Shall I carry on for the next 20 minutes?


Proof of Satanic and dark stuff.... just spend a couple of minutes browsing www.freemasonrywatch.org - a bias website or not, the photographs speak for themselves.

You see, there is no denying your a bunch of naughty boys.



[edit on 12-4-2005 by Driver]

[edit on 12-4-2005 by Driver]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
Shall I carry on for the next 20 minutes?


Please do. These have already been discussed.

Any more?

BTW, is Benardo still a Mason?


[edit on 12-4-2005 by intrepid]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Driver
Shall I carry on for the next 20 minutes?


Please do. These have already been discussed.

Any more?

BTW, is Benardo still a Mason?


[edit on 12-4-2005 by intrepid]


Someone made a huge list on page 2.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
Someone made a huge list on page 2.


No they didn't, at least I couldn't find a list on page 2, then I checked page 1 and found a list of notable masons:


Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Harry S Truman
George Washington
Ben Franklin
Winston Churchill
Chief Tecumseh
Jean Francois Champollion
Sir Sanford Fleming
Norman Vincent Peale
Oscar Peterson
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Ludwig von Beethoven
Burl Ives
Irving Berlin
Horatio Nelson
P. G. Wodehouse
Oscar Wilde
Voltaire
Rudyard Kipling
Alexander Pope
Jonathan Swift
Robert W. Service
Alexander Pushkin
Walter Scott
Johann W. Goethe
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Samuel Clemens
Robert Burns
Sir Richard Burton
Sir Ernest Shackleton
Will Rogers
Peter Sellers
Red Skelton
Danny Thomas
Tom Mix
Audie Murphy
Harpo Marx
Harold C. Lloyd
Harry Houdini


Are you through with your BS?



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
Gavrillo Princip Member of Black Hand Masonry Assassin of Heir to Austro-Hungarian Throne The Destruction and Slaughter of a Generation

Since when was the black hand masonic? They were a nationalist political movement.

You have to keep in mind that these sorts of things have been discussed before, so people are aware that some people are said to be masons. But what evidence supports that they are masons? What lodge# is the Black Hand Assasin from, for example?

Shall I carry on for the next 20 minutes?



a bias website or not, the photographs speak for themselves.

Link to the photos that you feel demonstrate that masonry is satanic. Also, lets try to distinguish between something looking satanic and actually being satanic. For example, if the masons have a symbol that looks like a pentagram, does that make them satanic? Or does one have to be a follower of satan or an actual satanist to be satanic?



You see, there is no denying your a bunch of naughty boys.

I assume tho that you agree that, especially since you don't know the members here personally, that you can't actually say that about them specifically.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
Here's proof of my claim of serial killers & phsychos being Masons...

Paul Bernardo - Phsycho serial killer & rapist
jack the Ripper

Tim Mc Veigh

Brother Napoleon Bonaparte - Hegemonic dictator and destroyer of Europe was he not?


NONE of the guys you mentions above were masons. Stop getting your info from freemasonrywatch.com, that site has been proven false many times over. When I asked for proof, I meant LEGITIMATE proof.



Proof of Satanic and dark stuff.... just spend a couple of minutes browsing www.freemasonrywatch.org - a bias website or not, the photographs speak for themselves.

You see, there is no denying your a bunch of naughty boys.


Drivel, it's obvious to anyone here that you have an agenda, as does your reference website freemasonrywatch.com. You need to clear your head and do some REAL research, from legitimate sources. I'm glad you answered my challenge, but you need to realize I asked for legitimate examples.

Everything you mentioned above has been debunked and refuted many times over on this forum. And how about you back up the rest of your claims? Or can you not?



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 05:36 PM
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Wow, 3 quick responses to ignorance. I think Jesus said it best Driver:





posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 05:37 PM
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well Freemasonry holds membersship many movers and shakers and string pullers and always has done so of course Freemasonry is involved in alot of world events.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
well Freemasonry holds membersship many movers and shakers and string pullers and always has done so of course Freemasonry is involved in alot of world events.


But you said NEGATIVE world events. So, name some.

Was the American revolution negative? The Declaration of Independence or the design and establishment of democracy?

How about the French revolution? Was THAT negative?

Gimme some legitimate examples, not what you read from Freemasonrywatch.com. We subscribe to a higher level of intelligence here.


[edit on 12-4-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by Driver
well Freemasonry holds membersship many movers and shakers and string pullers and always has done so of course Freemasonry is involved in alot of world events.


But you said NEGATIVE world events. So, name some.


I'm sure they are guilty for the NHL lockout.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 05:57 PM
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A favorite Freemason of mine (and a myriad of other appendant bodies).



Dave Thomas (all hail the Square Cheeseburger)

Not to be forgotten, that scourge of yardbird...



Colonel Harlan Sanders

Cholesterol Monkeys, not just for clogging arteries anymore...



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