Demon's Guards?

You into Witchcraft? There's a plethera of basic protection spells out there that may not totally get rid of them, but give you a feeling of well being. Not just spells of course, also symbols and such.

Originally posted by BrawleR
You into Witchcraft? There's a plethera of basic protection spells out there that may not totally get rid of them, but give you a feeling of well being. Not just spells of course, also symbols and such.

I'd advise against it. Balaams Donkey, do you have some details you could share as well?

Originally posted by Balaams donkey
Hi Vash,

Now that hardbody is bashing me on some other thread, maybe we can all talk.

Let us define some terms, God would be the Creator of all things, all powerful, the first cause. Demons and Angels would be creations of the God. The terms Demon, devil, or satanic mean against God or without God.
God is light, love, life, and truth. This is very reasonable, as how could any truth, life, light or love exist outside of the Creator, this would cause the idea of two sources, of things, thus, causing the idea of two gods, which could not be. For what would have been the source of the gods, and why would they be different? Meaning why would say a good god create an evil god? There is no reason. It is only logical to say that there is one God undivided, without end or beginning.

Having said all that, why would one embrace creatures whom hate the source of there very existence? Meaning demons. Why would you, not want to be joined and receive the Love of the Creator, who fashioned you?

well bal i belive there may be more then one god in chirstain relgaion there is a trinaty 3 gods in one but 3 gods none the less my thoery on god is

he gave us free will btu in so doing we do not have free will god knows all things what we will do before we do it no mater what the choice god all ready knwos what we are going to do so there for we have no free will at all as to "who fashioned you " may i ask what do you mean by that ?

Originally posted by BrawleR
You into Witchcraft? There's a plethera of basic protection spells out there that may not totally get rid of them, but give you a feeling of well being. Not just spells of course, also symbols and such.

hello brawler
Yes i have studied witchcraft before i knwo many spells and differnt kinds of "magic" as well i feel how evert hat i do not need to i have never been harmed so i belive i do nto need to cast any protection aroudn me for they do it for me but thank you for asking

Oh Boy,
Vash, you ask good questions, Bravo!

Somebody tell me how to place quotes, every time I do this it deletes everything else,.......sigh.......life was simpler, when all a donkey had to was carry heavy loads and eat carrots.

1. On the Trinity, Christians do not believe in three gods. We believe in three persons in one God nature. Examples:
A) The three leaf clover, three distinct leaves (persons) in one nature, the plant.
B) The family, the children are of the same nature as the mother and father, but are distinct persons.
C) The bible, it can be read literal, moral, or allegoric, at any time, three states in one nature.
D) The human being has a mind, body and soul, three distinct things, in one nature.

Now one would say the God could not be a Father, nor would anyone say that God is mute, and cannot speak, even though he created speech, his speech is his Word, nor would it be said he does not have of Spirit. So we could believe in his Fatherhood, his Word, and his Spirit.

2. God knows all thing, therefore he knows, what I am going to do before, I do it, thus I do not have free will.

This is an old, and powerful deception of how the world is created and works. It is based on the idea that everything is created already including the future; well the future is not created, if it was we go there. Therefore, God does not know, what does not exist, in fact it does make any sense to say; God knows something about nothing, or he knows about things that are not.
The Atheist's use what is called, a paradox to casts doubts in the minds of believers; a paradox is two seeming contrary thoughts.
Examples:
1. This sentence is false.
2. All truth is a lie.
3. The truth is there is no truth, this is the truth.

These are examples of a paradox, so is the false idea of "God knows everything, therefore the future is fixed". This paradox was created to allow man to be free of God, thus allowing him to be free of responsibility for ones own actions. If you reduce 90% of religions and philosophies down, simplify them you get "man is not responsible for his actions, before death" The disposition of personal responsibility. This is why judgment from a God is hated by them.

I will keep it short so you can reply,
Your friend.

Originally posted by Vash
thank you for your advice....

i have tryed to use god's name to ride my self of them but it is to no end they are still here still watching me i have not asked them to do any thing in years and i truly think they are here to protect me for some thing maybe for my after life?

Dear Vash,
I agree with Bal and Saint, and if you wish to give ear to yet an other soul one who has walked this path I will gladly share the little wisdom I have.
I know they seek passionate souls perhaps because these have a greater ability to run thier erends. People who have God give given gifts. I was one and as Bal says it may take years to rid ourselves of them.
If they can't blow your personaity up to an arrogant selfish being they will confuse you into thinking your God given gifts and unique personality is worthless they will let you know you are the least of all beings that God has disdained you, they will push you so far that even thier hiddious company is better than total solitude.
Pray Child, Listen to Bal. My thoughts reach to Heaven for you.
Forgive me I called you child it is a word of love and care that God will use addressing us in our times of trial. Only twice (that's enough) have I heard this voice loud and clear in utter dispair , with great confidence say " Be calm My Child, have no fear"
They will make you proud, take all the humbleness out of you, say you deserve better, that you don't have to bow to them, you are an equal. Beware.
Be innocent, enjoy the gifts of God, the rising sun the new day every meal you recieve, loving friends, little things,thank your Creator, welcome the heart of a child into your life.
They hate that, they want you to look away from the beauty of God, forget that all creation comes from One source, they will tell you that you and you alone have the power to create, you can do it ALL ALONE if you listen to them. Don't!!!
Yes God has created us in His image,His gifts are many, but not to rule.
Life Bless
WrenLittle
P.S. Forgive my spelling

Balaams donkey,

Nice post, but without this turning into a religious debate, let's also note that God (sometimes through a proxy) predicts the future. Thus, your reasoning must undergo even more twists and turns to take this into account. That is, you have a future uncreated, thus impossible to be known, but at the same time a future that must pass for God's predictions to be correct. Do humans have enough freewill to override God's prophecy? That my friend is a good question.

With respect to the thread, I think what it is to be evil and a demon is a little misrepresented by plenty of folks -- religious and nonreligious alike. Biblically, for example, Satan was God's most beautiful angel. Ironically, this goes into contrast of Satan being pictured as a 7ft red beast with claws, a tail, and wings. We know that Satan's most valuable tool is deception, yet we always hear tales of satan and his minnions scaring people back to God (in other words, the "I'm gonna scare you" method appears to be lacking).

Second, let's note that the angels, initially, are God's servants. They were never created with freewill. What does this mean to us? Satan's rebellion must have been done through a will that does not belong to satan. Who else is there to will satan to rebel? God himself, to which the bible laments many times:

"Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you." Joshua 23:15

" form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45:7 (emphasis added)


To the original poster,

If you are religious in the christian sense, then also note what I have said above. Only through God's power do these things hover around you. With that said, who is to judge God's decision to have them around you? A few men?

Originally posted by radardog
Do humans have enough freewill to override God's prophecy? That my friend is a good question.

No, we do not have enough freewill to 'beat up' God nor his plan. That would negate that whole omnipotence definition of God.

Originally posted by radardog
Only through God's power do these things hover around you. With that said, who is to judge God's decision to have them around you?

Hold up. First your saying there's freewill, now you're saying there isn't because God has put these demons with Vash? It's a bit contradictory don't you think? In addition to the idea that God wants us to kick out evil in our lives.

Alright Vash, straight up. Here's how you test your spirits:

1 John 4: "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God."

Apply the test. I know it has worked for others as well.

Originally posted by radardog
A few men?

Thanks for the love and respect . Remember why we're here? We were sent here to help as servants of God, not to spin people into confusing directions. Apply the same test to us then to see if we are from God.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by saint4God]

No, we do not have enough freewill to 'beat up' God nor his plan. That would negate that whole omnipotence definition of God.

It would, wouldn't it? Thereby we have the paradox that Mr. Donkey was attempting to solve.

Hold up. First your saying there's freewill, now you're saying there isn't because God has put these demons with Vash? It's a bit contradictory don't you think? In addition to the idea that God wants us to kick out evil in our lives.

I'm not saying there is or there isn't freewill. I am simply making observations. We know that God allows those demons to be with Vash; if God didn't allow it, they wouldn't be there. Angels were and still are servants of God -- therefore, since they do not have freewill, there must be a higher power directing their actions (God?). Thus, we see that God both allows and puts all of these experiences around Vash.

Now we sit here as men to question the omnipotent, omniscient God's motives regarding these experiences?

Saint, I hate to inform you, but God also sends false prophets and information. How do I know this? Let's quote God (or his proxy):

"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: " 2 Thessalonians 2:11

Is this a biblical contradiction? Maybe, I don't know. However, we can all see the God can and has sent people information wherein your test would render useless: even God can decieve.

Thanks for the love and respect

. Remember why we're here? We were sent here to help as servants of God, not to spin people into confusing directions. Apply the same test to us then to see if we are from God.

Not exactly. Technically we are here to worship, follow, and love God. Angels are God's servants, we are God's pets (a.k.a. lambs). We are the sheep and he is the shepard. Ironically, many shepards use a dog to scare his sheep into obeying his commands (the devil), as well as provide the sheep safety (God). It's not that I don't respect you, I just want to observe us as the sheep questioning the shepard's actions.

Originally posted by radardog
I'm not saying there is or there isn't freewill. I am simply making observations. We know that God allows those demons to be with Vash; if God didn't allow it, they wouldn't be there.

Allowing is different than 'putting' them there. God allows us to screw up all the time, doesn't mean He looks favorably upon it.

Originally posted by radardog
Angels were and still are servants of God -- therefore, since they do not have freewill,

I've read the argument but am undecided. Angels snuck down (or so they thought) and made out with earth girls, right? Then God wiped 'em out. Things that make you go hmmm...

Originally posted by radardog
there must be a higher power directing their actions (God?). Thus, we see that God both allows and puts all of these experiences around Vash.

Allows? Yes. Puts? I'm not so sure. Personally I think we draw thees things to us. In my case it was upon my request. God allowed it but it was a stupid move on my part.

Originally posted by radardog
Now we sit here as men to question the omnipotent, omniscient God's motives regarding these experiences?

We won't know his motive, it's futile to try. All we can do is deal with it here and now. Do you or do you not want to pass this test? That's the issue to be addressed.

Originally posted by radardog
Saint, I hate to inform you, but God also sends false prophets and information. How do I know this? Let's quote God (or his proxy):

"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: " 2 Thessalonians 2:11

This did happen and for a reason. There's a whole story that's surrouding that. Quite facinating really. I am not a prophet though and the words are not my own so it cannot be 'me lying'.

Originally posted by radardog
Is this a biblical contradiction?

It is a test. All of this is a test as it was in the Garden, for Abraham, for Job and a lot of people who will forever go unnamed.

Originally posted by radardog
Maybe, I don't know. However, we can all see the God can and has sent people information wherein your test would render useless: even God can decieve.

It is not MY test. Did I fail to include the Book I got it from? *glances up the page* Nope. One can believe the Bible or not, but don't play at this information as mine.

Originally posted by radardog
Not exactly. Technically we are here to worship, follow, and love God.

"And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" Matt 22:40. Now I can go into how we're to go out to all ends of the earth and teach the good news, not cause our brother/sister to stumble, and help those in need, but I doubt anyone wants to sit and read pages of Bible quotes. If anyone would like a copy, I will send mine.

Originally posted by radardog
It's not that I don't respect you, I just want to observe us as the sheep questioning the shepard's actions.

I'm not questioning, I'm doing what I'm told.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by saint4God]

[edit on 24-3-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Balaams donkey
Oh Boy,
Vash, you ask good questions, Bravo!

Somebody tell me how to place quotes, every time I do this it deletes everything else,.......sigh.......life was simpler, when all a donkey had to was carry heavy loads and eat carrots.

1. On the Trinity, Christians do not believe in three gods. We believe in three persons in one God nature. Examples:
A) The three leaf clover, three distinct leaves (persons) in one nature, the plant.
B) The family, the children are of the same nature as the mother and father, but are distinct persons.
C) The bible, it can be read literal, moral, or allegoric, at any time, three states in one nature.
D) The human being has a mind, body and soul, three distinct things, in one nature.

Now one would say the God could not be a Father, nor would anyone say that God is mute, and cannot speak, even though he created speech, his speech is his Word, nor would it be said he does not have of Spirit. So we could believe in his Fatherhood, his Word, and his Spirit.

2. God knows all thing, therefore he knows, what I am going to do before, I do it, thus I do not have free will.

This is an old, and powerful deception of how the world is created and works. It is based on the idea that everything is created already including the future; well the future is not created, if it was we go there. Therefore, God does not know, what does not exist, in fact it does make any sense to say; God knows something about nothing, or he knows about things that are not.
The Atheist's use what is called, a paradox to casts doubts in the minds of believers; a paradox is two seeming contrary thoughts.
Examples:
1. This sentence is false.
2. All truth is a lie.
3. The truth is there is no truth, this is the truth.

These are examples of a paradox, so is the false idea of "God knows everything, therefore the future is fixed". This paradox was created to allow man to be free of God, thus allowing him to be free of responsibility for ones own actions. If you reduce 90% of religions and philosophies down, simplify them you get "man is not responsible for his actions, before death" The disposition of personal responsibility. This is why judgment from a God is hated by them.

I will keep it short so you can reply,
Your friend.

Thank you bal for answearing my question for me i also have others that i wish to ask if you whoudl be so kind as to answear them if you can..

if god has given us free will in the sense that we can live are life free to choss who we follow god or satan then choudl we not also forgo the end of the world by simply not doing it i have seen movies like omga code etc etc that depict the end of the world but if we were to simply end it to stop this from happing would it say make god wrong ? (dogma)

I reamber when i was little i asked my sunday school teacher a question on what if i went to heaven and i asked god to play a game she told me god whould always win.. ahh but yes if i played god at blackjak he whoudl loss becus it is a game of chance he whoudl win as well but so whoudl i she never hade a answear for me tho lol

Your freind
Vash

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Vash]

Originally posted by Wren

Originally posted by Vash
thank you for your advice....

i have tryed to use god's name to ride my self of them but it is to no end they are still here still watching me i have not asked them to do any thing in years and i truly think they are here to protect me for some thing maybe for my after life?

Dear Vash,
I agree with Bal and Saint, and if you wish to give ear to yet an other soul one who has walked this path I will gladly share the little wisdom I have.
I know they seek passionate souls perhaps because these have a greater ability to run thier erends. People who have God give given gifts. I was one and as Bal says it may take years to rid ourselves of them.
If they can't blow your personaity up to an arrogant selfish being they will confuse you into thinking your God given gifts and unique personality is worthless they will let you know you are the least of all beings that God has disdained you, they will push you so far that even thier hiddious company is better than total solitude.
Pray Child, Listen to Bal. My thoughts reach to Heaven for you.
Forgive me I called you child it is a word of love and care that God will use addressing us in our times of trial. Only twice (that's enough) have I heard this voice loud and clear in utter dispair , with great confidence say " Be calm My Child, have no fear"
They will make you proud, take all the humbleness out of you, say you deserve better, that you don't have to bow to them, you are an equal. Beware.
Be innocent, enjoy the gifts of God, the rising sun the new day every meal you recieve, loving friends, little things,thank your Creator, welcome the heart of a child into your life.
They hate that, they want you to look away from the beauty of God, forget that all creation comes from One source, they will tell you that you and you alone have the power to create, you can do it ALL ALONE if you listen to them. Don't!!!
Yes God has created us in His image,His gifts are many, but not to rule.
Life Bless
WrenLittle
P.S. Forgive my spelling

No need to be prefect in spelling as you can see nither am i...
i take no disrespect in being called child i knwo what the term means i have gone to church's many of them indeed i have gone to tent revivles and huge events were many postors are present i am always one that gets picked to go forth and be saved but alas i do not belive it has ever worked i have tryed with my heart to take jesus in to my life but so many unansweard questions so many doubts that i do not belive and i have never once lost my demons they stay with me no mater what i do even when told they are gone i still feel them and so do the pastor's...

Thank you

Vash,
I think God has allowed this so you would be able to find the True Chruch of God. He has given you a hard road to walk, that is not everyone. It is kind of like the sword and the stone, whom ever can remove your demons has the True God.

Radar Dog, nice to meet you, my well thinking friend. You have asked great questions, with I will return tonight to answer you. But, for now duty calls....I got to pull the cart and get a carrot.

Vash, your brilliant!
If you were a donkey I’d marry you! Do you like clover?
But alas....
Ok, I am not sure of your point exactly, so I will clarify mine.
First, free action and free will are two different things.
My free will my say I wish I could fly like a bird, but I do not have free action to do so.
My free will may say I wish I could get and drink of water, and my free action will let me.
Our, free will is not bound by action, but action is bond by our surroundings, have many people, have the will to leave prison, but are bond by jail.
Not only that, but sometime free action is available but, our will restrains us, like the cheese burger, calls to us, but we say "no, it will make me fat".
free will and free action are two separate things.
So, to think we could end the end of the world, by wishing it away, is silly, as we cannot even wish away a cold. Believe me, I have tried.

Your Sunday school teacher is of course incorrect, as blackjack is a mathematical codex, so after the cards were dealt, the chances are fixed to a point. Now God, of course would know all of the cards in the deck, and you would not, God would know when to stay and when to hit. You would guess, but in blackjack, God would have to lose a hand our two, unless you played really poorly or he cheated, which he would never do, because he likes it when you win, just as a father or mother likes to see a child succeed. This is love.
Your Friend


Radardog,
1) Are you now or have you been an Atheist?

2) Please tell me why you think Angels have no free will, how did you come upon this knowledge? If angels have free will then, your understanding will have to change, will it not? As this, seems to be the force of your argument.

3)
Mr. Donkey(me)
No, we do not have enough freewill to 'beat up' God nor his plan. That would negate that whole omnipotence definition of God.

Radardog(you)
It would, wouldn't it? Thereby we have the paradox that Mr. Donkey was attempting to solve.

Saint4God( not me or you)
Hold up. First your saying there's freewill, now you're saying there isn't because God has put these demons with Vash? It's a bit contradictory don't you think? In addition to the idea that God wants us to kick out evil in our lives.

Radardog(you again)
I'm not saying there is or there isn't freewill. I am simply making observations. We know that God allows those demons to be with Vash; if God didn't allow it, they wouldn't be there. Angels were and still are servants of God -- therefore, since they do not have freewill, there must be a higher power directing their actions (God?). Thus, we see that God both allows and puts all of these experiences around Vash.

Radardog, you have wisely caught an a seemingly paradoxical statement. Please, read the post above to understand the difference between freewill and free action. Yes, God of course allows evil, otherwise how could it be? Which is the meaning, behind the verse, You will see the wisdom of the Holy Fathers after this verse.
" form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45:7 (emphasis added)

Hippolytus of Rome:
To the same effect is the word of Isaiah, "I, the Lord, make peace, and create evil;"(1) meaning by that, I maintain peace, and permit war.

Origen Against Celsus:
Passages, indeed, might be found where corporeal and external (benefits) are improperly(5) called "good,"--those things, viz., which contribute to the natural life, while those which do the reverse are termed "evil." It is in this sense that Job says to his wife: "If we have received good at the hand of the Lord, shall we not also receive evil!"(6) Since, then, there is found in the sacred Scriptures, in a certain passage, this statement put into the mouth of God, "I make peace, and create evil;"(7) and again another, where it is said of Him that "evil came down from the LORD to the gate of Jerusalem, the noise of chariots and horsemen,"(8)-- passages which have disturbed many readers of Scripture, who are unable to see what Scripture means by "good" and "evil,"--it is probable that Celsus, being perplexed thereby, gave utterance to the question, "How is it that God created evil?" or, perhaps, having heard some one discussing the matters relating to it in an ignorant manner, he made this statement which we have noticed. We, on the other hand, maintain that "evil," or "wickedness," and the actions which proceed from it, were not created by God. For if God created that which is really evil, how was it possible that the proclamation regarding (the last) judgment should be confidently announced,(9) which informs us that the wicked are to be punished for their evil deeds in proportion to the amount of their wickedness, while those who have lived a virtuous life, or performed virtuous actions, will be in the enjoyment of blessedness, and will receive rewards from God? I am well aware that those who would daringly assert that these evils were created by God will quote certain expressions of Scripture (in their support), because we are not able to show one consistent series(10) of passages; for although Scripture (generally) blames the wicked and approves of the righteous, it nevertheless contains some statements which, although comparatively(11) few in number, seem to disturb the minds of ignorant readers of holy Scripture.

Tertullian:
I mean, who says, "I am He who make peace and create evil,"(3)--that is, war, for that is the antithesis of peace.

Finally,
St. Cyril of Jerusalem:
And he, whose mouth was as an open sepulchre(6), began first with blasphemy against the Maker of all things, saying, The God of the Old Testament is the author of evils, as He says of Himself, I am a consuming fire(7). But the wise Archelaus undermined his blasphemous argument by saying, "If the God of the Old Testament, as thou sayest, calls Himself a fire, whose Son is He who saith, I came to send fire on the earth(8)? If thou findest fault with Him who saith, The Lord killeth, and maketh alive(9), why dost thou honour Peter, who raised up Tabitha, but struck Sapphira dead? If again thou findest fault, because He prepared fire, wherefore dost thou not find fault with Him who saith, Depart from Me into everlasting fire(1)? If thou findest fault with Him who saith, I am God that make peace, and create evil(2), explain how Jesus saith, I came not to send peace but a sword(3). Since both speak alike, of two things one, either both are good, because of their agreement, or if Jesus is blameless in so speaking. why blamest thou Him that saith the like in the Old Testament?"

Hopefully, this will easily show to you the clear meaning of the verse. There is much more to discuss with you but, I will keep it short for now, to see where you go.

5) Now, are you here to spread Atheism or are you honestly asking questions to learn the truth.

6) Do you believe in an absolute truth?
Also Radardog, please make your statements as clear as possible, so neither of us get lost in misunderstanding. This of goes for myself as well.

Saint4god, way to go.
What a lovely post, Wren...you bring tears to my eyes.
Somebody, please tell me how to "quote" with deleting everything?

Vash,

Listen to this.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is the sound of demons being excorised by a real priest of God, in the one True Chruch. The Eastern Orthodox Chruch.
I have been to a hunderd of these, this is the real deal.
I just Love God!

very interasting bal

in the topic of free will look at this ever one has free will so you say we have the free will to defy god and satan we have enoug hof it any hwo to defy god and to be cast down in to a fiery hell were are entrnal souls will forever burn to cinders.
A pain that oen can never get used to but god predicts the futuer he see's all and hears all kinda like santa cluas so for his futuer to come about then one most realize that the little free will we do have has been striped from use by the one true god and used to predioct his own futuer and in doign so has bashed are free will to nothing were we have a destiny tro fullfill and that destiny is to either...
a got to hell or ...
b go to heaven..

Over the years i have come to a theory that we are nothing mroe then puppets a play toy to a all omniptent god that plays with us at his leasuir...
Or so it whoudl seem some ppl lose the faith of god becus there so called god takes family from them or gets abused or any type of thing some just simple come to realize how fade the bible really is with its ridles and tales of its magic were the simple faith is to have faith to simpley stay here on earth and learn the trailes and lessons that god throws in to are lives...

if we truly hade free will we chould live our life with out troubles and with out the threat that if we do not have faith in the one true god we will be cast down in to hell to forever burn

Hi Vash,

All right, I think I understood you. in your questions on free will. It is not God who sends us to Hell, it is us who send ourselves there. When we sin, we by our own will and action we depart from God, we turn away from his love and nature. We join ourselves to the nature of Satan, who is in hell. God never created Hell for anybody to live in. When Satan and demons rebelled he made Hell for them, and then when man decided to follow Satan’s, teaching rather than Gods, he joins his master Satan in Hell. It is always our freewill.

Originally posted by Balaams donkey
Hi Vash,

All right, I think I understood you. in your questions on free will. It is not God who sends us to Hell, it is us who send ourselves there. When we sin, we by our own will and action we depart from God, we turn away from his love and nature. We join ourselves to the nature of Satan, who is in hell. God never created Hell for anybody to live in. When Satan and demons rebelled he made Hell for them, and then when man decided to follow Satan’s, teaching rather than Gods, he joins his master Satan in Hell. It is always our freewill.

Yes i understand that but in so doing are we not doing what god wanted all along? he knows what we are to do before we do it so he whoudl knwo that we are goign to stray from him and thos marks down in his big book this preson is going to hell * sigh * do you understand what i am saying bal ^_^
Your freind
Vash

Vash
he knows what we are to do before we do it

Stop! time out! We have found the problem!
Vash, God does not know what you are going to do before you do it. If he did, your are right it is planed and inescapable, we are doomed.
Thankfully, this is not the case, he knows what we are doing, but God cannot know what does not exist, the future does not exist, your choices have not been set in stone. I imagine some well meaning, Sunday school teacher told you this, It is not true, nowhere in the bible does God say your choices are formed before your birth. He does say, you are planned, before your birth, but not your choices.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but NOW is my kingdom NOT from hence.

The future is not created, God has a plan that will happen. The world is existing now, which is why we have choices. As we make them God knows them instantly.

edit spelling, wording

[edit on 29-3-2005 by Balaams donkey]

ahh thank you bal's it seems as if what i learned when i was younger was flawed by humans to make me learn what they wanted me to learn to make me what they wanted me to be well not any more

Viva la revlatiuon =p