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The Absolute Power of Christianity!

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posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by shaunybaby
unless you accept jesus christ then you are going to hell according to the bible, hence according to the beliefs you choose to follow 'saint4god', every other religion that doesn't accept jesus christ is going to hell.

''where have i said this''...you don't need to tell people that this is what is going to happen, because the bible teachers you that this is the way it's going to be for the people that don't believe in jesus christ.


I'd recommend evaluating a Christian on the whole Bible before making an assessment. In this case, I'm referring to Revelation 20:11. There are other places in the Bible that talk about the same judgement occuring here. John 3:16 tells us we can be saved from such a day, a guarentee of salvation. I don't expect the judgement will be easy, let alone for those who reject Christ in this lifetime. I do not want to see anyone fall for taking the risk of 'wait and see'. It's possible to get those answers now, and there's great benefit to that.

Hopefully this answers your question as well riley.

[edit on 4-8-2005 by saint4God]



It is too bad you need a book to tell you that God is there. Instead of realizing that God is in all of us. God Is all around. That is the only proof we have. I can pick up any book at the library and base my entire life upon it. The bible is a fairy tale. Written by man. I have one interesting point. God seems to talk to people in the bible. He tells them things. He tells them what to write down. If I were to say God talked to me today I would be labeled Crazy. They heard the voice of GOD. So do people in mental instituitions.




posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by sweetgal2004
It is too bad you need a book to tell you that God is there. Instead of realizing that God is in all of us. God Is all around. That is the only proof we have. I can pick up any book at the library and base my entire life upon it. The bible is a fairy tale. Written by man. I have one interesting point. God seems to talk to people in the bible. He tells them things. He tells them what to write down. If I were to say God talked to me today I would be labeled Crazy. They heard the voice of GOD. So do people in mental instituitions.


well you wouldn't be labelled crazy. there's people that believe god talks to them, there are people that say god has given them powers to heal.

god's never spoken to me so the concept seems quite absurd. i wouldn't label the people that think god talks to them, because it's not their own fault. due to their genetic background and their environment they were brought up in, has created in their mind the existance of god. the same as ghosts, aliens etc...they've pushed these beliefs on themselves so much that they 'really do believe they are real. or you can go for the simple explanation that god is real, ghosts are real and aliens are real and come to abduct cows, then moving on to making patterns in wheat fields, then moving on to actually abducting people...



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by shaunybaby
well you wouldn't be labelled crazy. there's people that believe god talks to them, there are people that say god has given them powers to heal.

I'm unsure if people have this ability or not.. regardless it wouldn't prove god if they did.

god's never spoken to me so the concept seems quite absurd. i wouldn't label the people that think god talks to them, because it's not their own fault. due to their genetic background and their environment they were brought up in, has created in their mind the existance of god. the same as ghosts, aliens etc...they've pushed these beliefs on themselves so much that they 'really do believe they are real.

In defence of what I and others have experienced.. the majority of what I mentioned had witnesses [ESP, precognition [proves itself] ghosts etc.] though if someone had not experienced these things I would understand their not believing them as I wouldn't either. I don't know if aliens exist.. I haven't seen them myself so can't judge the stability of people that believe in them. While I don't believe in god I believe in the 'paranormal' though they might be just natural things that occur and have yet to be explained by science so remain 'magical' [eg ESP sometimes emerges when a child is hurt and a mother already 'knows'.]

[edit on 4-8-2005 by riley]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by sweetgal2004
It is too bad you need a book to tell you that God is there. Instead of realizing that God is in all of us. God Is all around. That is the only proof we have. I can pick up any book at the library and base my entire life upon it. The bible is a fairy tale. Written by man. I have one interesting point. God seems to talk to people in the bible. He tells them things. He tells them what to write down. If I were to say God talked to me today I would be labeled Crazy. They heard the voice of GOD. So do people in mental instituitions.


well you wouldn't be labelled crazy. there's people that believe god talks to them, there are people that say god has given them powers to heal.

god's never spoken to me so the concept seems quite absurd. i wouldn't label the people that think god talks to them, because it's not their own fault. due to their genetic background and their environment they were brought up in, has created in their mind the existance of god. the same as ghosts, aliens etc...they've pushed these beliefs on themselves so much that they 'really do believe they are real. or you can go for the simple explanation that god is real, ghosts are real and aliens are real and come to abduct cows, then moving on to making patterns in wheat fields, then moving on to actually abducting people...


first off, my mother works in a mental instituition as a doctor. she labels those people as schizophrenic, who talk to god, or who say god talks to them. know why? because she is forced to. she is abiding the laws of what is mentally ill, and what is not. you don't have an M.D. or you would have the ability to label those who talk to god or hear god as schizophrenic.
but what i believe is since many people, like yourself have not experienced this reality, they cannot believe it is real. just like your comment of ignorance on aliens and ghost and talking to god. you admitted your own ignorance by admitting you have never experienced these things, then judging, by saying "those people make themselves believe."
when in all actuality shauny baby you should think about the possibility of these things being your own reality. because since they aren't your reality. they aren't real to you. but to others their reality is reality. life is full of experience, possibilities, and knowledge. what i say is; don't be in the know, be in the mystery. and if that is to hard for you to understand, i'll say it like this; think outside of your own reality for once, and listen to someone elses. their possibilities are just as real as yours. all possibilities are endless.


oh, one more thing research Reiki...everyone completely ignored my previous post on that. it is proof that we can all heal, with our own hands! JUST LIKE JESUS HIMSELF. ever thought of that possibility?

here is just one link to give you a brief overview of the divine healing energy.(reiki)

What is Reiki?

[edit on 4-8-2005 by sweetgal2004]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by riley
In defence of what I and others have experienced.. the majority of what I mentioned had witnesses [ESP, precognition [proves itself] ghosts etc.] though if someone had not experienced these things I would understand their not believing them as I wouldn't either. I don't know if aliens exist.. I haven't seen them myself so can't judge the stability of people that believe in them. While I don't believe in god I believe in the 'paranormal' though they might be just natural things that occur and have yet to be explained by science so remain 'magical' [eg ESP sometimes emerges when a child is hurt and a mother already 'knows'.]


I believe that ESP, Precognition, ghosts, etc. actually can be documented as having occurred. Surprise you.? I believe they sometimes occur but I have a different opinion of where they come from then you do. I know they are all a clever lie by the Enemy of men's souls; a "Beautiful Deception" to lure anyone away from the truth. After all, who needs God and Jesus if we can prove these really wonderful and strange things can happen to us without Him, right.?

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2Corinthians 4:3-4

As I have said, many times, the struggle over men's souls and man's struggle to follow God involve heavy duty, big time, spiritual warfare. Being able to resist the siren song of this world and the "supernatural and paranormal goodies" that it has to offer, is tough. It is a spiritual battle and no one can win it except they have God's help; and that comes from Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

Grace and Peace,

Lightseeker



[edit on 8/4/2005 by lightseeker]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by lightseeker
I believe that ESP, Precognition, ghosts, etc. actually can be documented as having occurred. Surprise you.? I believe they sometimes occur but I have a different opinion of where they come from then you do. I know they are all a clever lie by the Enemy of men's souls; a "Beautiful Deception" to lure anyone away from the truth. After all, who needs God and Jesus if we can prove these really wonderful and strange things can happen to us without Him, right.?

I beg your pardon? I didn't WANT these experiences, In didn't ASK for these experiences.. I just am. I have ALWAYS been 'fai' even when christian [no.. belief in 'Him' didn't 'save' me from it].. I cannot help it as it's a natural ability.. and if it's 'evil'.. why did a vision actually save someone's life 5 seconds before they would have died? I find it pretty insulting that you can allign me with something you consider evil when you are doing it in a veil of biggotry.. the most evil thing that exists.

[edit on 4-8-2005 by riley]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by lightseeker
I believe that ESP, Precognition, ghosts, etc. actually can be documented as having occurred. Surprise you.? I believe they sometimes occur but I have a different opinion of where they come from then you do. I know they are all a clever lie by the Enemy of men's souls; a "Beautiful Deception" to lure anyone away from the truth. After all, who needs God and Jesus if we can prove these really wonderful and strange things can happen to us without Him, right.?

I beg your pardon? I didn't WANT these experiences, In didn't ASK for these experiences.. I just am. I have ALWAYS been 'fai' even when christian [no.. belief in 'Him' didn't 'save' me from it].. I cannot help it as it's a natural ability.. and if it's 'evil'.. why did a vision actually save someone's life 5 seconds before they would have died? I find it pretty insulting that you can allign me with something you consider evil when you are doing it in a veil of biggotry.. the most evil thing that exists.

[edit on 4-8-2005 by riley]



Riley, if it helps you any, I believe you. Even though I know some people are ignoring my posts. Like they are afraid of the TRUTH which comes outside of the bible. I like how with lightseeker his picture says deny ignorance and has the cross underneath it. Practice what you preach buddy. He and the other negativists don't use their entire brain. They use the bible. That is their only piece of information their brain can process. It is like there is no trying to convince them otherwise. They are sucked into the IGNORANCE already. It's like they are brain dead. They have to go back to the GOOD BOOK to remember anything. Or to know anything. They don't learn anything other than what the GOOD BOOK tells them to learn, and how to learn it. Now that is ignorance if you ask me.
DENY IGNORANCE

[edit on 4-8-2005 by sweetgal2004]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by sweetgal2004
first off, my mother works in a mental instituition as a doctor. she labels those people as schizophrenic, who talk to god, or who say god talks to them. know why? because she is forced to. she is abiding the laws of what is mentally ill, and what is not. you don't have an M.D. or you would have the ability to label those who talk to god or hear god as schizophrenic.
but what i believe is since many people, like yourself have not experienced this reality, they cannot believe it is real. just like your comment of ignorance on aliens and ghost and talking to god. you admitted your own ignorance by admitting you have never experienced these things, then judging, by saying "those people make themselves believe."
when in all actuality shauny baby you should think about the possibility of these things being your own reality. because since they aren't your reality. they aren't real to you. but to others their reality is reality. life is full of experience, possibilities, and knowledge. what i say is; don't be in the know, be in the mystery. and if that is to hard for you to understand, i'll say it like this; think outside of your own reality for once, and listen to someone elses. their possibilities are just as real as yours. all possibilities are endless.



i'm admitting my own ignorance by saying 'why' people believe in certain things?? i'm just using simple psychological techniques put forward to say 'why' people believe in god and 'why' some people do not. hence the genetic makeup of a person and/or their environment. there is a reason why some people believe in god and some do not, i was putting forward two answer...their genes and environment. how in the world is that making me ignorant?

if you want to believe that people are religious because 'they just are', then so be it. believing and not believing in god is pretty much the same as one person who likes marmite and one person that does not. if you taste marmite when you're two years old and like it, you're probably going to like it for the rest of your life. if you taste it when you're two years old and hate it, you're likely to never try it again. just the same as if you get a taste for god when you're young it's very hard to walk away, even if you think you're wrong.



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by sweetgal2004
first off, my mother works in a mental instituition as a doctor. she labels those people as schizophrenic, who talk to god, or who say god talks to them. know why? because she is forced to. she is abiding the laws of what is mentally ill, and what is not. you don't have an M.D. or you would have the ability to label those who talk to god or hear god as schizophrenic.
but what i believe is since many people, like yourself have not experienced this reality, they cannot believe it is real. just like your comment of ignorance on aliens and ghost and talking to god. you admitted your own ignorance by admitting you have never experienced these things, then judging, by saying "those people make themselves believe."
when in all actuality shauny baby you should think about the possibility of these things being your own reality. because since they aren't your reality. they aren't real to you. but to others their reality is reality. life is full of experience, possibilities, and knowledge. what i say is; don't be in the know, be in the mystery. and if that is to hard for you to understand, i'll say it like this; think outside of your own reality for once, and listen to someone elses. their possibilities are just as real as yours. all possibilities are endless.



i'm admitting my own ignorance by saying 'why' people believe in certain things?? i'm just using simple psychological techniques put forward to say 'why' people believe in god and 'why' some people do not. hence the genetic makeup of a person and/or their environment. there is a reason why some people believe in god and some do not, i was putting forward two answer...their genes and environment. how in the world is that making me ignorant?

if you want to believe that people are religious because 'they just are', then so be it. believing and not believing in god is pretty much the same as one person who likes marmite and one person that does not. if you taste marmite when you're two years old and like it, you're probably going to like it for the rest of your life. if you taste it when you're two years old and hate it, you're likely to never try it again. just the same as if you get a taste for god when you're young it's very hard to walk away, even if you think you're wrong.


"just the same as if you get a taste for god when you're young it's very hard to walk away, even if you think you're wrong."


shauny baby it sounds like to me religion was pushed on you and you are too afraid to walk away, even if you're wrong...

not saying you are...but your two posts totally contradict themselves so I'm asking you to read them again...and maybe come up with a new post that makes sense. i said nothing of a two year old or marmite. i simply stated that your ignorance comes from you not understanding other peoples happenings, and experiences. you change topics like the bible, confusing as the bible. i guess its only the ignorance talking so i'll have to forgive that. you have no idea why people believe in what they believe in. noone but that person does. what psychological techniques are you using? gentics tell nothing of what someone is going to believe. and neither does their environment. so i don't have a clue as to where you are getting your psychological techniques. a person decides on there own, by the gift of choice, what they are going to believe. and if you have read any of the bible you must have missed the part where it says we have choice. the bible is based upon choices people made throughout history. trust me i've read it. i had more than a taste of it as a child. i was forced to read the bible everynight. whatever verses momma picked out for me to read, i read. then on top of that i had 3 days a week of CHRISTIANITY. 3 days of church. studying the BIBLE. reading the BIBLE. i look back on it and think hmm...what else could I have read...what else could i have learned if i wasn't so focused on one book??? so in conclusion shauny baby, you are not god, you are a part of god, just as i am. but shauny baby, you don't know what makes people believe what they believe. that is only something the highest power can know. and you are not that. neither is anyone else...no matter how much of the bible they read. i'm sorry for the many comments of ignorance towards you. that is just my opinion. you probably think i am ignorant because i don't believe what the bible says. i mean maybe not...but it is POSSIBLE. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE

[edit on 4-8-2005 by sweetgal2004

[edit on 4-8-2005 by sweetgal2004]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 12:23 PM
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now i must be going so i hope everyone has a wonderful life...and peace from whatever highest power you believe in.

talk to you all later
namaste
sweetgal



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
Is there something I can do to prove that I'm not?

It comes with the territory, so no.

Part of being religious, is believing you know the answer. I don't think either of us know the answer, but I'm not claiming to.


Originally posted by saint4God
Why do you want me to deny my proof? How seriously could you take me if I pretended the reality of it all doesn't exist?

Have you ever heard the saying, 1000 monkeys at 1000 typewriters will eventually type Shakespeare? I think your proof is just coincidence, as odd as it may sound.

Your right, if you didnt' preach what you practice, I would call you a hypocrite. However, this is where the arrogance comes up again. Scientists are sure they are right, but they repeatedly try to prove themselves wrong, to find the truth. Do you see where I am coming from?

Originally posted by saint4God
I am learning new things now and then so I'm willing to hear anyone out.

A major contradiction I think is that between the New and Old Testament.
The main ideas I got from them:
Old= Eye for an Eye
New= Love and Forgiveness

Did you notcie this?

Originally posted by saint4God
Someone brought a Bible to read on their break time (I didn't have mine since I was working in another building) and the comment was made, "better keep an eye on her, she could be one of those". I asked what she meant and she said, "you know, a Bible, at work?"

Oh no! Not a Bible at work!
No just kidding. I would have no problem with someone reading a Bible a work, more power to them. If they want to read their Bible, What business is it of mine?

That is where I draw the line though. It is where desicions, based on the Bible, that affect others are being made is where I become offended.


Originally posted by saint4God
It's hard not being able to quickly and easily share exactly what it's like.

Maybe Charles Manson can describe it to me?

[edit on 4-8-2005 by Charlie Murphy]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by sweetgal2004
shauny baby it sounds like to me religion was pushed on you and you are too afraid to walk away, even if you're wrong...


i didn't think i came across that way... the only times i've been to church have been weddings and funerals. i'm in no way religious. i do believe in many cases religious beliefs are enforced. only when a person, on their own, makes a conscious decision about their beliefs, is it not enforced. however, if a child has grown up around religion then they can never really make that 'conscious' choice as it was made for them and enforced on them before they really knew what was going on.



i said nothing of a two year old or marmite.


i was using a simple example of something you hate and love. i thought marmite fits that perfectly. my point was that if you decide you don't like something when you're young that belief often gets implanted so that you're very unlikely to change your mind. which is why when a child has religious parents, is taken to church as a child, he/she is very unlikely to break out of that mold set by their parents.



i simply stated that your ignorance comes from you not understanding other peoples happenings, and experiences.


why am i ignorant though? the shoe is just on the other foot. i've not been brought up religiously, i've not been taken to church by my parents, i did go to a primary school where we said prayers and that, but nothing had an affect on me, so i was not brought up in a religious environment. using the complete opposite and the same ideology i can say that someone who 'is' brought up in a religious environment is likely to carry on that belief their entire lives, the same as i'm likely to carry on my athiest view for my entire life. this isn't always going to be the same for everyone, nothing ever is whatever the subject, as some people become religious when they're 30 or 50, usually in a point in their lives when they need something to believe in, hence god.



gentics tell nothing of what someone is going to believe. and neither does their environment. so i don't have a clue as to where you are getting your psychological techniques.


i believe genes do play a role in someone will become religious or not. a study was done on identical twins that were separated at birth and in the majority of cases they were either both religious or both not. this doesn't prove anything, but shows that in some cases genes probably do have an affect on whether or not you will become religious at some point in your life. the reason why i believe that a person's environment will also decide whether or not they are religious is because i am not religious. i haven't been brought up with a religious background and i'm not religious. on the other hand a friend of mine was brought up with a religious background, thus her, her two brother's and parents are all religious. you could say this is merely a coincidence, but it does show that due to a person's environment they will either be religious or not.

like i said before, it won't be the same for every individual. however, for the majority it will be like this.

the psychological techniques are mostly from things i've read, or just my own thoughts on 'why'.



a person decides on there own, by the gift of choice, what they are going to believe. and if you have read any of the bible you must have missed the part where it says we have choice.


if your parents have taken you to church since you were 4 and you are now 14...how can you have a 'choice' when this belief has been implanted so much. it's a choice, yet it's swayed in the way of the church 90%, and everything else 10%, thus meaning it is not really a 50/50 choice between church and the other option. at that point in your life when all you've every known is 'god', then you do not have that choice anymore as this belief is all you know. the bible really doesn't give you much of a choice either...'believe in the lord jesus and you will be saved...if not you go to hell'



i had more than a taste of it as a child. i was forced to read the bible everynight. whatever verses momma picked out for me to read, i read. then on top of that i had 3 days a week of CHRISTIANITY. 3 days of church. studying the BIBLE. reading the BIBLE. i look back on it and think hmm...what else could I have read...what else could i have learned if i wasn't so focused on one book???


pretty much my whole point on people being brought up religiously and beliefs that are enforced.



so in conclusion shauny baby, you are not god, you are a part of god, just as i am.


i never said i was god. i resent that fact that you tell me i'm a part of god, i'm me through and through.

[edit on 4-8-2005 by shaunybaby]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
It comes with the territory, so no.


Rats.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Part of being religious, is believing you know the answer. I don't think either of us know the answer, but I'm not claiming to.


I'm not saying I know everything, just saying I know one thing.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Have you ever heard the saying, 1000 monkeys at 1000 typewriters will eventually type Shakespeare?


Hehe, my response usually is "a monkey could write shakespeare anyway. Doesn't take that much effort"
. I'm kidding please! Just my opinion. I just happen to like Poe, Hawthorne, Douglas Adams, Emily Dickenson, Paul Zindel and some others much more.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
I think your proof is just coincidence, as odd as it may sound.


I did too on first occurence (more specifically, thinking it was my own doing somehow), but how many coincidences have to occur before it's no longer a series of coincidences?


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Your right, if you didnt' preach what you practice, I would call you a hypocrite. However, this is where the arrogance comes up again. Scientists are sure they are right, but they repeatedly try to prove themselves wrong, to find the truth. Do you see where I am coming from?


Yes, but I don't know how I'm different. Are you saying I'm not challenging what I'm being taught? I can talk about what I challenged and how I got the answers, but don't see how it's relevant to anyone else.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
A major contradiction I think is that between the New and Old Testament.
The main ideas I got from them:
Old= Eye for an Eye
New= Love and Forgiveness

Did you notcie this?


Jesus explains this best, that these laws were given when hearts were cold as stone, but God can present an excellent way of how we should be, not just the law of the land. Moses went up to the mountain to get the law and brought them down to the people, Jesus came down and teach us the right way to think and feel then ascended to give us the opportunity to follow. I'm sure there's a much more detailed and elegant way of putting it, this is just how I understand it. There's even a theory that the 'eye for an eye' law was to prevent excessive punishment for minor infraction. I don't know if that's true or not, I'd need more information.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Oh no! Not a Bible at work!
No just kidding. I would have no problem with someone reading a Bible a work, more power to them. If they want to read their Bible, What business is it of mine?


I don't care what book is on who's desk unless they force it into my hand and tell me I have to read it or else. That, my friend, is true oppression. Oh wait, they did that to me last week with Federal Regulations
.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
That is where I draw the line though. It is where desicions, based on the Bible, that affect others are being made is where I become offended.


Does the law make sense? Wisdom is wisdom is wisdom despite the source. "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step". Because a Christian didn't say that, should I throw it away and call it bunk? Rather, I take that wisdom to heart because it gives me hope. Which is both something good and something I believe in. Oh, and 10 points if you can name the person who said it without looking it up.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Maybe Charles Manson can describe it to me?


Why would you listen to him? I would agree that he's intelligent, but that does not make him a good advisor on anything. I'll take the word of someone slow of mind but caring in heart than the other way around any day.


[edit on 4-8-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Aug, 4 2005 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
I'm not saying I know everything, just saying I know one thing.

That one thing is everything, or thats how I see it.


Originally posted by saint4God
I did too on first occurence (more specifically, thinking it was my own doing somehow), but how many coincidences have to occur before it's no longer a series of coincidences?

Only one that can only be explained by something Supernatural. I guess its up to you what you consider unexplainable.


Originally posted by saint4God
Yes, but I don't know how I'm different. Are you saying I'm not challenging what I'm being taught? I can talk about what I challenged and how I got the answers, but don't see how it's relevant to anyone else.

About 200 years ago people were sure witches existed, and would KILL based on what they were told, without questioning it. About 300 years ago people were sure phologiston existed. We now know neither of these things exist and were complete falsehoods. Do you really think we know everything? Look back at how wrong we were in religion and science. Imagine what we will know 250 years from now. I bet we will look back at how wrong we are now.


Originally posted by saint4God
Does the law make sense? Wisdom is wisdom is wisdom despite the source. "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step". Because a Christian didn't say that, should I throw it away and call it bunk? Rather, I take that wisdom to heart because it gives me hope. Which is both something good and something I believe in. Oh, and 10 points if you can name the person who said it without looking it up.

I heard that quote a few times before, and know a few Confucius quotes, but didnt know that was his. My short term memory is shot anyways.

The law may be contraversial and should not be affected by anyone's religious beliefs. I'm talking about laws being affected by things like "souls".


Originally posted by saint4God
Why would you listen to him?

I meant so he could tell me how it feels to communicate to God, like you.

[edit on 4-8-2005 by Charlie Murphy]



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
That one thing is everything, or thats how I see it.


To me it is the most important one thing, but still I do not know everything nor am I anywhere near knowing everything. Best parallel I can draw right now is to say that a giant library contains an enormous amount of books, though I don't know all that's in those books. So, I'm doing my best to read as many as I can check out at a time.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Only one that can only be explained by something Supernatural. I guess its up to you what you consider unexplainable.


Yes. We all have different thresholds until we accept something as true. The shorter end level of acceptance I'd consider going on faith, the longer end level of acceptance I'd say are skeptics who are more proof driven. That is to say it is not enough for a skeptic to make sense and follow good while it is good, rather, must pull it apart and say how? why? etc. Which is the best way to be? I do not know. I can say as a self-considered skeptic, I greatly admire those who can quickly and clearly spot what is good and trust in it.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
About 200 years ago people were sure witches existed,


Er...witches do exist. I know 3 currently, who declare them as such, I consider friends.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
and would KILL based on what they were told, without questioning it.


That is a problem. Did they not read what Jesus said about passing judgement? How about loving your neighbor and enemy? The fact that true Christians were too intimidated to ask these questions was wrong.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
About 300 years ago people were sure phologiston existed. We now know neither of these things exist and were complete falsehoods. Do you really think we know everything?


I know we do not. My proof is that there are still questions without answers.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Look back at how wrong we were in religion and science. Imagine what we will know 250 years from now. I bet we will look back at how wrong we are now.


Is it getting better or worse?


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
I heard that quote a few times before, and know a few Confucius quotes, but didnt know that was his. My short term memory is shot anyways.


10 points! My memory is shoddy when it comes to things I haven't experienced. I've been told I need to work on that. It's going to be one of my greatest challenges.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
The law may be contraversial and should not be affected by anyone's religious beliefs. I'm talking about laws being affected by things like "souls".


I think that's a fair statement. I would not ask my government to enforce the first commandment. The main reason is we'd run into the same problem the Pharisees did. Bent on law, empty in heart.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
I meant so he could tell me how it feels to communicate to God, like you.


Motivation and alignment.

Motivation - What was Charles Manson's reasoning for saying he talks to God? What is my motivation for talking to God? If no distinction can be made then that's a big problem. My recommendation would be to explore both of our motivations in great detail until a distinction can be found before accepting anything I say. As a matter of fact, you don't have to accept the things I say according to God. In His Word He tells us to go to Him directly. The less you hear of me and the more you hear of Him the better.

Alignment - Does what I say fit with what we know of as God? How do we tell? Well, we have this Holy Book as one indicator. Here He speaks. The descriptors can be found also in the dictionary:

Main Entry: 1god
Pronunciation: 'gäd also 'god
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German got god
1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe
www.m-w.com...

Are the things that Charles Manson says and does according to a master such as the God described in these two sources? Look at others who claim God as their lord that are also wise and good by your moral compass. Would they agree with what I say about God?

There are many indicators that can point to each other and validate the source. Most of the time, it does not happen right away. It's hard to discern someone's intent when you first shake their hand. After discussions, questions, probing, reasoning, and challenging though, the truth has a way of being resilient, while deception breaks down during the process.

My boss says "seek and you'll find" and "the truth will set you free". He challenged me to seek out the truth until it is found. His confidence is that when I go out to do so, I'll end up right back at His desk. Though I may have started outside His office, even traveling in an opposite direction, I end up there every time. Funny how that works. It is with that same confidence I can relay that message to you too. Seek and you'll find, the truth will set you free.

I'm not going to tell you (or anyone) "you're running out of time" or "you're risking Hell", for what kind of heart comes to God out of fear? Would not a heart that comes to God out of love for Him be more true in motivation? A fearful heart may commit thinking they are "safe", but what then? Are they going to willingly do good from that point on and understand what it means to love Him, their neighbor, and enemy? Perhaps, but I'd venture to say they have a longer path to travel to learn that lesson.

What's it like to talk to God? I approach feeling different things at different times. Afterwards, many times I feel eased, heard, understood, and at peace. This is different than "self-comforting" which is brief and without resolve. Some times my worries are still there and it takes later proofs to resolve. Many times I'll hear that same worry come out of someone else's mouth though I hadn't brought it up and they provide the answer right after it. Sometimes an event will occur that will prove everything will be or is okay. Rarely, I get a direct answer. The direct answers are usually when I'm off-track, missing an obvious point or am looking for direction.

This has been a very enjoyable exchange. It has forced me to think and consider quite a bit. I hope it has benefited you in some way as well & would like to hear your thoughts on it.

[edit on 5-8-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 03:29 PM
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At the end there, you really touched on what its like in the relationship with God. You were able to put into words, quite nicely, things that are hard to voice.
Its amazing that sometimes when you think you are doing the talking, you are really repeating what your soul is hearing.
I was taught a lesson this week, without even realizing that I was in class until it was over.
I work construction, and this job was handed to me as directly by God as I know is possible without a physical appearance. Its a small crew, building a bridge, and there just happens to be another believer in the Lord there..20 years my senior. There is also a sub who is on the job from time to time that is a brother in Christ.
It was particularly miserably hot this week, and the workload was extra heavy. The sun was beating harder then the jumping-jack and I found myself singing the Lords praises to myself as I went along. Time seemed to pass faster and the day seemed to cool as I sang. I was singing a song that I had made up years ago when I worked on a paving crew. Nothing special..only to Him.
Well, 2 gallons of water and 10 hours later Im driving home. The guy on the radio is talking about hymns.
Specificly..(i just found the verse. I thought it was psalms...but psalms are davids example of what the scripture was talking about. Eph 5:19)

Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Now, that was exactly what I had been doing all day. I hadnt done that in nearly a decade. Sung just loud enough for me to hear...and whisled when others were in ear shot....it lifted me through the day. This morning was awesome too. I heard a song by newsboys (im new to this music ..i think it was called "He reigns") that got me going for the day.

Anyway...all day long I was singing the lords praise and announcing His divinity and domain...and then it turned into a lesson. It was God explaining to me, the meaning of what I had been doing all day, by faith.

On an unrelated note. When I located the verse just now... I also noticed an odd coincidence. My birthday is 5-19. Neat.

Now that Im done...i wonder if I didnt just hurt the current topic more then help. Sorry if I did. Didnt mean to. It seemed appropriate at the top.



posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
So, I'm doing my best to read as many as I can check out at a time.

Read whatever book you want, whenever you want for as long as you want, but don't try to make someone else read it.


Originally posted by saint4God
I greatly admire those who can quickly and clearly spot what is good and trust in it.

Not me, good and bad are only points of view. While its more obvious what is more beneficial sometimes, its not always that clear cut.


Originally posted by saint4God
Er...witches do exist. I know 3 currently, who declare them as such, I consider friends.

People who practice withcraft exist, but I doubt they come to your house on a broom. They can't do you any harm by way of black magic, potions, or killing your pets.

Most "witches" killed back then were innocents caught up in the mob mentality. What were the ways they were judeged again? Oh ya, If you drowned you were innocent, but if you lived you were a witch. If you were innocent, and were being burned God would surely save you, otherwise it was considered a sucessful hunt.


Originally posted by saint4God
Christians were too intimidated to ask these questions was wrong.

I would stand up for what I believe no matter what the cost.


Originally posted by saint4God
Is it getting better or worse?

I think better, some might disagree.


Originally posted by saint4God
10 points!.

Too bad it won't pay for some of these stupid quote fines I keep getting.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You may have felt a little insulted, me comparing you to a physcopath and all. My point is that anyone could claim they have talked to God, and its impossible to tell whether they are lying or not. You have admitted that their are special cases in which God tells people to kill, so alignment doesn't really matter. I could go and say" Today, Jesus told me to love and forgive people.". Just because it fits with his message does not make it true.

I feel there is a double standard with the motivation among other things Biblical. If something comes up that does not make sense, I hear" Well he's God, he can do whatever he wants". Then when it comes to other things, there is set rules. I'm sorry, but I just don't see any more validity in your claims than Mansons.

Otherwise it was a good answer, given the topic.


Originally posted by saint4God
This has been a very enjoyable exchange. It has forced me to think and consider quite a bit. I hope it has benefited you in some way as well & would like to hear your thoughts on it.

Agreed. It has given me some perspective into Christianity, but there are some things that remain the same. Just as:
Person = Smart People = Stupid
I feel the same about:
Christian = Good "Christians" = Not always so good.

[edit on 6-8-2005 by Charlie Murphy]



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by sweetgal2004
Because in the scriptures it tells man to not partake in any witchcraft, magic, or ritualistic activity. And to stay away from people who do.


Where does the Bible say this? The Bible says to kill witches, not merely to stay away from them.



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 01:14 AM
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Originally posted by sweetgal2004
Riley, if it helps you any, I believe you.

Yes it does and thankyou.

Even though I know some people are ignoring my posts. Like they are afraid of the TRUTH which comes outside of the bible.

The bible is man made.. those things I mentioned.. and things like 'reakki' that you mentioned [I personally don't know much about it] are things of power that are not sanctioned by fundies so must be the 'devil's' work. ESP and precognition are natural abilties to some and are NOT evil no matter how ignorant people are in regard to it.. these things are not disimilar to animals sensing earhquakes.. but of course any empowerment thats NOT from 'god' and not in the bible must be killed off in order to maintain.. the order of subservience to the old guy in the sky. I'm pretty sure even photography was frowned upon as 'evil' when it first came out. With Christianity being based on knowledge being THE greatest sin.. it's a wonder we ever got anywhere as a species.

[edit on 7-8-2005 by riley]



posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Read whatever book you want, whenever you want for as long as you want, but don't try to make someone else read it.


Fair enough I think.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Not me, good and bad are only points of view.


Then there is no good or bad (in keeping with that line of thinking). Therefore murder, rape, etc. cannot possibly be 'bad'. There's a problem with that and hope it can be seen.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
While its more obvious what is more beneficial sometimes, its not always that clear cut.


Subjective means nothing is true. Problems again.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
People who practice withcraft exist, but I doubt they come to your house on a broom.


Hehe, no, that's symbolic.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
They can't do you any harm by way of black magic, potions, or killing your pets.


No comment.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Most "witches" killed back then were innocents caught up in the mob mentality. What were the ways they were judeged again? Oh ya, If you drowned you were innocent, but if you lived you were a witch. If you were innocent, and were being burned God would surely save you, otherwise it was considered a sucessful hunt.


The screwed up people of the day wanted a clear way of extermination while appealing the uneducated public. I do not support a one of them nor know where they're getting their judgement from. In fact, Matthew 7 and 5:43 say the opposite. Hm, guess they didn't read their Book either.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
I would stand up for what I believe no matter what the cost.


Woot!


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
I think better, some might disagree.


I think things are getting better too. There are more Books in people's hands, more who have read it and more who challenge them to abide by it. You wouldn't get that in 14th century Europe.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Too bad it won't pay for some of these stupid quote fines I keep getting.


Hehe, they do rack up like parking tickets!


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You may have felt a little insulted, me comparing you to a physcopath and all.


Nah, I'm not easily insulted and you have a point.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
My point is that anyone could claim they have talked to God, and its impossible to tell whether they are lying or not. You have admitted that their are special cases in which God tells people to kill, so alignment doesn't really matter. I could go and say" Today, Jesus told me to love and forgive people.". Just because it fits with his message does not make it true.


It's a validation test. Apply multiple tests and that helps. You can never tell for absolute certainty that what someone else says is true unless you walk the road yourself.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
I feel there is a double standard with the motivation among other things Biblical. If something comes up that does not make sense, I hear" Well he's God, he can do whatever he wants". Then when it comes to other things, there is set rules. I'm sorry, but I just don't see any more validity in your claims than Mansons.


Then I've failed to properly explain. Perhaps someday there will be someone who can come along and do a better job. Until then, as I know you're probably tired of hearing by now, my recommendation is to go the the source.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Otherwise it was a good answer, given the topic.


Thank you ^_^. It's a challenging subject.


Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
I feel the same about:
Christian = Good "Christians" = Not always so good.


Huzzah! If you can see true Christians as good, it feels like a resoundingly successful exchange! Just a word of progression if I may. If Christian = Good, it would only be because they follow Christ as their teacher and saviour. So then, Christ being the product of all that is good (God) should give insight on what his Father is all about. That's the exact reason why he was made to walk the walk. He can say "Father, I know what these people go through, I've been with them and will show them how to get back in touch with you". Now my paraphrase is the point of the 4 gospels. Believe in him and it says you will *flip flip flip* "...have eternal life" (John 3:16) *closes the Book*. That's it.

[edit on 8-8-2005 by saint4God]



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