The Anti-Christian conspiracy

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater

NOw if you believe God is active, real, powerful, aware... then why do you believe he cant protect his own bible from mere man?

Mere man? Not giving oneself much credit, eh?

The same reason he doesn't protect his children from disaster. He wants us to experience, and figure it out for ourselves.

No.

God warned us there would be trials. Its not so we can experience the feelings and figure things out.
Paul had a 'thorn in his flesh'. Why? The bible tells us.
Jesus said we would be hated for his sake. He was hated, and so will we be.
God saves every one of his children in the end.

No.

God warned us there would be trials. Its not so we can experience the feelings and figure things out.
Paul had a 'thorn in his flesh'. Why? The bible tells us.
Jesus said we would be hated for his sake. He was hated, and so will we be.
God saves every one of his children in the end.

I don't think Christ is the reason many "hate Christians". In fact, it is not true Christians that the hate is pointed at. It is the use of Christ's name to push intolerance and fear that many "hate".

Yes, GOD does save everyone of his children in the end. I wish I would hear more of that on the airwaves, on the TV, IN THE CHURCH. I watch many minutes of several Christian teachings from churches during the week. These days Christ's name is rarely mentioned.

Of course, I always look at it this way. Christ was not a Christian.

"Beware the teachings of man, and the teachings of the Church".

Apparently we differ on man's purpose on this planet in some respects. However, that is okay. As long as one realizes that there is the Father one is at least headed in the right direction.

The ones that deny GOD bother me. Most have closed their minds to the Creator. They deny their own existence.

You are correct when you say it is not so we can experience the feelings and figure things out. It is so GOD can experience. He got kinda bored "sitting around in the vast light", and really wanted to find out what he was all about. That is why we were created "in his image". Yes, I know-such "heresy".

I see where you're coming from, but I'd like to propose a challenge for you and Al. Test the Word. Do as it says and see if it works. Let me know what the result is, I'm very interested in the follow-up. We can compare notes of the experiment.

Saint - thanks for the invitation but I already did the full test - for at least the first 18 of the 25 years I called myself a Christian. I mean, the full 9 innings - sunday school, vacation bible school, 2 services on every Sunday, every Wednesday night, etc. I honestly feel like I gave it the best shot it can get. I ain't got another 18 years to test a second time. I know you have the best intentions but...

If I wanted to be a real smart alec about it, I could offer you a similar invitation - spend just 10 years completely outside your faith and see if you really want to go back. Naw, I respect you too much to crack wise about that with you. I know you're a serious guy and a true believer in the highest and best form of that term. You're happy and I'm happy. We just don't share exactly the same beliefs - but we do agree on quite a bit.

[edit on 10-6-2005 by Al Davison]

Christianity, it is sad but true that time is ticking for this religion as people are leaving ignorance behind.
All religions are full of ignorance, and it is realy sad for man in the third milenium (anno domini, what irony) to stick still with those brain washing all into controling over others C u l t s.
All religion is like this

God spoke to me or through me, this is the book where it is written, obey, pray give me money because I am priest, etc
yes there are some rules also and those rules you must obey btw.

It is so bad, but christians are under attack these days because they are simply outnumbered, or people don'e believe anymore, yes it is all about belief, when you can not prove something easy people got to believe, and if people don't lie then belief will not be necesary to have, it will be normal to take somthing to be true, But since poepl tend to lie and imagine things, then you got to believe in those lies, or you never will ask yourself if it is true.
I can say only too bad if one belief system is only going down for the next to step here. Belief systems are crap.

The only ignorance there is about Christ comes when people like you make broad, sweeping statements like you did. It is your ignorance of what Christ is about that is shown in statements like you made.
Can I prove the bible or Christ ? Yes.
I can prove it to logic, to truth, and to math.
Can I prove it to you? No. You will refuse to see the logic, you will make truth relative to your selfish desires, and you will refuse to look at the math or simply ignore it.

Read Revelation. God promises a blessing to all who read it. Its the only book of the bible that has that promise in it. Since I cant do anything to wake you up, maybe by reading that book, God Himself will.
Do it as a challenge.

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater

I don't think Christ is the reason many "hate Christians". In fact, it is not true Christians that the hate is pointed at. It is the use of Christ's name to push intolerance and fear that many "hate".

Luk 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
Luk 6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.


Joh 7:6 Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is always ready.
Joh 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.
Joh 7:8 Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come.


Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you

1Jo 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
1Jo 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
1Jo 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.


Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Luk 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Joh 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Its a pretty broad teaching in the bible that those that belong to Christ will be

few in number
hated
persecuted

relegion is going to die and become replaced by belief in science if it is'nt already and as for christianity thats been dieing for many years only kept alive in the USA its done well for so many thosand years, but its going.

[edit on 11-6-2005 by klain]

Y'know, despite all those verses, jake, I can't think of a single person who hates Christ. I mean, Christ came (according to the Bible), for the sinners. the humble, not the self-righteous.

Its a pretty broad teaching in the bible that those that belong to Christ will be

few in number
hated
persecuted

I don't think that the over 1,000,000,000 that claim themselves as Christians are few in number. That's a bunch of zeros!!!

I have never met anyone that hated a Christian.

It is the Christians that persecute many for not seeing things 'their way". It is certainly a shame, and I don't believe Jesus would approve of the intolerance taught by a growing segment of the "religion". It is not taught by true members of the faith.

Jake, surely you don't believe in the "paranoia" that I hear from a certain segment of Christianity? The preaching of FEAR and "everyone is out to get us" has been preached throughout time by some segment of society. However, apparently from what I read you feel that way.

I've said this before - I think too many who call themselves Christians want to paint themselves as being persecuted because it fullfills some kind of prohecy that they desparately want to believe.

"They" love to think that anything less than 100% support represents a conspiracy against "them". OK, let them keep thinking that. It doesn't matter at all in the long run. And, the long run, IMO, is for longer than Christianity has been around - keep it in perspective. Even if you credit Christianity as being as much as 2,000 years-old, that's still just a relatively new religion. Protestanism is even younger still. Check back in another 2,000 years and see where we are.

Marge, your in a bubble

madman, search the phrase "Lord Lord" in the bible.

It would save us both some time if you could think in compound terms and post accordingly.

Originally posted by dbrandtGod created Adam and Eve in His image.

My responses: What exactly is meant by this? What was his image, is it that we look as he does?; I have seen you state this several times, I would think you have an answer ready, but you offer no response. Repeating what you are told?

To which you respond that you have answered at the top of page 26, well, your response on that page is a non-response, to wit:

I'll have to answer a few at a time. God is a triune being, so are we. We have a body, soul and spirit. God is eternal. People once created will live forever somewhere. We were also created to have certain attributes that God has. We have a mind, will and emotions like God does. But we are not God nor ever will be.

Does not even begin to identify God’s image, unless of course you wish to state that God has a mind, will and emotions, a shocking revelation to be sure!

You-

So do you want me to use Bible verses to show my points?

Maybe if I can introduce Shakespeare to prove Hamlet, but be my guest anyway, I want to know what God’s image is, per you.

Me-

Why is God a triune because your NT scriptures say so?

You-

Yes it does, do you want the places where it states this?

Yes, I do. But I want support not some wayward interpretation which says nothing like: “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created them…” I want to know what constitutes God’s image.

Me-

Why would God need a will exactly, since this is suggestive of being subject to good and evil?

You-

I don't take it that way. Here is one definition of will-Diligent purposefulness; determination:. God cannot sin, He has plans that He carries out. One part of His will was that He was determined that mankind would have a Savior so any who wanted could escape eternal seperation from Him and choose the Savior and have eternal life.

First of all, I have never heard of such a thing as “will-Diligent,” Secondly, the question was posed because you offered this

We were also created to have certain attributes that God has. We have a mind, will

Therefore, you have not supported your position which was to suggest that we, being created in God’s image have a will, therefore he had a will. But within a few words nonetheless, you contradict yourself in that while you don’t "take it" that God has a will, you use the term: “his will.” I would prefer clarity of thought dbrandt, can you muster same?

Now further to that, your God creator gave us no choice of saviour despite your proclivity toward this guy called Jesus, for the God which you are supposed to be revering declared himself the only saviour. Refer Isaiah for your education on same.

God doesn't Kill for the Fun of it,,, He has his Rules and if you go over the line without forgiveness,,,,,,,,,,, Well, You have cross the Line.....

Here is what God said about the world just before he Distroyed it the first time...

The Lord saw how great man's Wickednwss on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his Heart was only Eveil all the time.
The Lord was greved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.

So the lord said,, I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth-man and animals, and Creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air--for I am grieved that I have made them...


You Know I have often wounder why God made Satan,, with out him, Man would not have been Tempted, and every thing would have been hunke dorey and there would be no death..

BBBUUUUTTTTT That was the only way he could have given us a choose for which we could had to be with one or the other, We or I make our own way with whom I want too..

In a way for a lot of people, Satan gives then there heaven on earth, with money, sex and no obligation to anyone but self, to live life to the max in yourself and Killing people that gets in your way inorder to have what you want..No regard for anyone or anything execpt for (I)

Our time here on earth is so short and we want so much in it, Compared to Eternal Time, our lifeis just a whisper in Time,, But we think that its all over when we die..

Later, If we have the chance to get old and in our senior moments maybe we are let, for a time to see just ahead of out lifes, to see where we are going and we are given the time to think that the lord IS waiting for me and Satan has tried everythingin the world to kill me,, I had better get my head on Right and do the right thing before I spend Eternal time were I know I will not like it there..

WE are given a 50/50 chance to get it right and thats good odd but there will be so many that will not get another second in time to change way.....

Just my Ideal of what (I) see ahead of me................

Ok... everybody hang on a minute, here

I would really like to make a topical post... then i realized how pointless it would be right now. At this point, there are so many sub-threads, that my replies will mean little with respect to the original thread, and certainly will not sway opinion or help inform anyone of the big picture.

Indeed, no minds will be swayed or debates decided because the topic has grown so broad... and each reply is so specific and far removed from the original purpose of the topic.

Sure, the original topic touches on many issues... and we're all debating specific parts, but the whole of this is an ungainly mass.

what i'd suggest are any of the following:

1. new posts regarding any of the sub-topics in the appropriate places
2. a summation of pertinant points being discussed re: the original topic
3. new sub-forums to discuss any of the results of #1 in
4. consistant labelling or numberring of the points/contentions/hypothesese being discussed.

If it comes down to ignoring these suggestions, and shooting down idiotic points one by one, i'm game... but i'd much rather discuss things on a point by point basis, and influence others to become more reasonable, enlightend and informed.



merely a suggestion...



[edit on 14-6-2005 by TheeStateMachine]

Order would be better, but you are correct that the folks here do not adhere to it.

The original topic is indeed broad because the POV I was taking was that the conspiracy is the one listed in the bible starting in Genesis 3.
No one will recognize that except for christians.

No one will recognize that except for christians.

I would be careful with that statement Mr. Jake. Millions of Christians don't see it, because there is none except where someone has listened to man.

Lets not foget the point that Jesus himslef walked this earth and claimed HE was the messiah-Gods own son, that God had sent to us to deliever us from our sins.

Many people saw HIM face to face. They saw HIM heal the sick. Feed the poor. Teaching and illustrating Gods principles and laws. Producing miracles that improved the lives of indivuals as well as thousands, etc..... and on and on it goes. All done in the name of Jesus Christ !

What did we do as man ? We called him a false prophet, a radical, a fundementalist and then we crucified him ?

Even if Christ returned today the mass would reject and deny as they have for thousands of years.

Why ? Is it our own ignorance- Because we have not looked into it ourselves to find the truth ?

Is it Our own pride ? I refuse to bow down to another ! or I will live my life my own way !

Just some things to think about ?

Truth !

Many people saw HIM face to face. They saw HIM heal the sick. Feed the poor. Teaching and illustrating Gods principles and laws. Producing miracles that improved the lives of indivuals as well as thousands, etc..... and on and on it goes. All done in the name of Jesus Christ !

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Jesus did these things in the name of the Father. If he had done them in his name himself he would be going against his teachings?

You Know I have often wounder why God made Satan,, with out him, Man would not have been Tempted, and every thing would have been hunke dorey and there would be no death..

BBBUUUUTTTTT That was the only way he could have given us a choose for which we could had to be with one or the other, We or I make our own way with whom I want too..

So your saying GOD let Satan continue to hang around so we would have a choice between good and evil? GOD did this so he could in a roundabout way kill his own children-a part of him?

and Lucifer was perfect, until iniquity was found in him.
Like man, he was in Eden. You job was to worship and praise God with your voice, his job was to do the music, among others.

It was in Eden that Lucifer became prideful. Why? Not sure. I know he was made before man. So I guess that he wanted to be worshiped by man.
So he got Eve and Adam to follow his lie....the fall of man and Lucifer has now happened.
Lucifers name is now satan