The Anti-Christian conspiracy

Here is a problem with your post there Jake,

Great post. We agree. You cant pick and choose. Its all or nothing. If your Jesus cant make the earth in 6 days then he cant raise from the dead.
Who will you believe.
Choose this day whom you will follow...

Who is picking and chosing? Are you saying that every word in every language has only one meaning and as such there is no way that there can be a mistranslation? Common now, I know you know better.

Who made the earth? If you look, you may find that it was God, Jesus was his son.
And as to the last part of the above quote. Choose this day whom you will follow...
As I mentioned above, this could also be said of science. Remember, the sound barrier, the make up of the atom, Man cannot fly? Those were Scientific limitations that were believed and were taught for centuries. Are they still being taught? Or are we now being taught more up-to-date science as these previous beliefs have been found to have been false.
This does not make it immpossible that faith cannot do the same, that faith cannot evolve.

Are there any supporters of modern science (not necessarily including any theories of evolution) that consider science a religion? I've never met one. I've never heard of one.

All I've heard are Christian bible-literalists accusing people who believe in science of practicing that as a religion - I think that's just weird. It's like comparing apples to bicycles!

Do any of the fundies ever worry that maybe they are blasphemers and idolaters becuase they are using a computer to try and convince us that religion and science are polar opposites?

It's really quite ludricous in the extreme. Also, a little scary. We are only a few hundred years removed from the last Dark Ages and you know what they say about history repeating itself.

BTW - I know a lot of scientists and most of them are Christians.

i read a statistic and a huge percentage of scientists aparently are religious, hence accept there is some devine power/god/being. however, my 3 science teachers, teaching me biology, chemisty, physics in my last year at school, were all prety much non-believers of religion. someome asked when we were learning about the big bang, said to the teacher 'what about the creationist theory'...the teacher said this is physics, im not here to teach you r.e, which is a fair point.

saying most scientists believe in religion means abosolutly nothing though. also saying there was some devine being that created everything helps a lot. this is because you don't need to explain anything if you believe this. if you say you believe in the big bang, you need to have reasoning and some sort of explanation of how that happened and why you believe it. whereas christians can just say, god created everything...need an explanation?...go read genesis.

Yep, I still think that if earth were created with a big bang and evolved over billions of years then, it's entirely possible that God was the Big Banger.

I don't think God or even the author of Genesis expected us to take that creation story literally. It was just an ancient folk tale that was finally committed to writing. The whole thing was meant to be an allegory or it was just the best the ancients could come up with since they had no tools to investigate the true origins. God granted us those tools but not all at once.

If we are to see God's hand in everything we do (which some of us believe) then we have to be able to see God guiding our increasing knowledge and techniques for better understanding the universe. God never meant for mankind to stop learning and exploring. To say that God meant for us to just take an old folk tale and then sit around on our lazy butts and wait for the end is to demean and diminish God - it's profane, base, and insulting.

[edit on 22-6-2005 by Al Davison]

Yes, Al one must remember that this was 1st century man that was trying to put into writing concepts that were not understood at the time. The only way they could relate was with the knowledge they had at the time.

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Here is a problem with your post there Jake,


Who is picking and chosing?

You
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Those days can mean only one thing.

Who made the earth? If you look, you may find that it was God, Jesus was his son.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

And as to the last part of the above quote. Choose this day whom you will follow...
As I mentioned above, this could also be said of science. Remember, the sound barrier, the make up of the atom, Man cannot fly? Those were Scientific limitations that were believed and were taught for centuries. Are they still being taught? Or are we now being taught more up-to-date science as these previous beliefs have been found to have been false.
This does not make it immpossible that faith cannot do the same, that faith cannot evolve.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever.



[edit on 23-6-2005 by jake1997]

Originally posted by jake1997Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ..

I wonder if your God holds a patent that predates the oldest transcription you can muster of his word?

I have done my will in everything in this earth. I have spread myself abroad therein, and I have made strong my hand. I was ONE by myself, for they (i.e., the gods) had not been brought forth, and I had emitted from myself neither Shu nor Tefnut. I brought my own name into my mouth as a word of power, and I forthwith came into being under the form of things which are and under the form of Khepera.

Three guesses form where your "word" originates.

Original signature line by SomewhereinBetween
We cannot know God’s plan; We cannot see tomorrow; To sit at the hands of God with peacefulness is to cause them to open. –A paraphrase

Man is clay and straw, And God is his potter; He overthrows and he builds daily.

With quotes like these, one has to wonder why you're working so hard to tear appart a person's belief in God. Is it because you believe deep down it cannot be done or because you'll find satisfaction in deceiving someone into thinking their proof is not real?


[edit on 24-6-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
With quotes like these, one has to wonder why you're working so hard to tear appart a person's belief in God. Is it because you believe deep down it cannot be done or because you'll find satisfaction to convince someone that their proof is not real?

Explain the point you are trying to make relative to my signature, be succinct this time, as in defining what my quotes mean to you and do they offend you, if so why, and if not, why not.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Explain the point you are trying to make relative to my signature, be succinct this time, as in defining what my quotes mean to you and do they offend you, if so why, and if not, why not.

Sure. I find neither offensive. In fact, like them quite a bit . Lessee here:

We cannot know God’s plan; We cannot see tomorrow; To sit at the hands of God with peacefulness is to cause them to open. –A paraphrase

This one reminds me of Isaiah 55:8. God basically states we do not see and think how He does, and that there is a plan for mankind. In being patient with Him, He will reveal in time.

Man is clay and straw, And God is his potter; He overthrows and he builds daily.

And this is from "And yet, Lord, you are our Father. We are the clay, and you are the potter. We are all formed by your hand." - Isaiah 64:8. With each day's end, we begin again in the morning to be a part of His creation.

How'd I do?

So...to succintly summarize my point, if you hold these characterizations of God true and close to your heart, then what's the dilly with you bustin' up peeps who try to live by Him?


[edit on 24-6-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4GodSure. I find neither offensive. In fact, like them quite a bit .

Amazing how man's concept of God and such lovely words can be a universal in nature where the reader takes no umbrage because they do not know that it is in fact of a pagan and idolatrous doctrine.

Nonetheless I am glad that you like them, but you did very poorly, for I did not paraphrase Isaiah, in fact my paraphrase does not come from the Bible. But before I get to that, I will go back now to address a remark in your previous post which I held back because I wanted you to concentrate only on my question. There is nothing wrong with hard work, rather it is laziness which you should be criticizing, start with your own. You have resolved to cast myopic eyes to the obvious records that show exactly the roots of your Christian God, contenting yourself in accepting only Christian material as the source of all your beliefs in God.

For at least 2,500 years, that train of thought was largely undisputed, for nowhere else was there a more aged written account of the Abrahamic god. Yet, truth cannot be forever hidden, God does after all work in mysterious ways, yes? Well he obviously commanded mother earth to preserve those truths for this later date and forward.

Those tablets of stone and papyri which, if you were in search of truth, you would be acquainting yourself with intimately, and committing same to memory. Many have been referenced by me and others in ATS, where they cannot be denied their historical precedence over your bible. It is by God’s design, my God, that truth must be told, for were it not so, man’s relentless pursuit of knowledge of his past history would not be fruitful, and mother earth would not belching up her secrets to paintbrushes and shovels, for over 100 years now.

Your fundamentalist/evangelical or whatever demonination Christian religion, was forged from one before called Catholicism, which took its birth from Judaism. There is no denying that, not even you can deny that without being dishonest, but you are quite willing to shut your mind to not just the possibility but the proof constantly being offered up by mother earth that Judaism sprang from another religion also.

So ill-learned are you in matters theological, that you assume such a nice reference to God in my signature has to be that of my God and you embrace same as yours,wWell it is not my God, it is that of your god yes. The paraphrase in my signature was placed there weeks ago specifically for the purpose of proving this point, because I knew it was just a matter of time before some Christian apologist would think I was being hypocritical or some such thing and hope to turn it on me.

Behold! I present to you the English translation of the actual words from which that paraphrase is taken:

Indeed, you cannot know the plans of God; You cannot perceive tomorrow. Sit yourself at the hands of God: Your tranquility will cause them to open.

The key to your education for same lay in the clue that is the second quote, which was not a paraphrase, but an actual representation. So you can see the two at once, I reprint it:

Man is clay and straw, And God is his potter; He overthrows and he builds daily.

It is high time that you follow your own instruction: train and study. Try proverbs for the similar prose and when you are through acquainting yourself with those, then refer to the Egyptian source itself:

The Instructions of Amenemope, chapters 21 and 25, for those two and much more, and to help you on your way: www.africawithin.com...

SomewhereinBetween & saint4God,

It's hard to tell within this thread, even going back pages, but - are you two not both Christians?

Misfit

You seem to make many assumptions with certain individuals.

You stated a difference between saint's GOD and your GOD.

Is there not only one omnipotent GOD of this place? A GOD that transcends all?

I also know that saint, like myself, has a very open mind on subjects. Yet, you seem to want to belittle because of his Christian leanings. By the way saint is far from evangelical.

I and saint realize that the closing of the mind is the end of learning, and brings stagnation.

You know, I am just realizing that this thread relates to some of the stuff I am talking about in the thread below:

Interesting information on the Christianity is Pagan indea. I think that the topic there is more specfic tho, but its relevant here too because it deals with the particular claim that christianity is a 'copy' of lots of paganistic traditions.

such a lashing out since our last discussion (well, more like a brow-beating from ya) about Clement. By the way, my pastor quoted Clement two Sundays ago so there

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Your fundamentalist/evangelical or whatever demonination Christian religion,

You don't even know. Alright carnival guesser, what's my age, weight, occupation and shoe size?

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
So ill-learned are you in matters theological, that you assume such a nice reference to God in my signature has to be that of my God and you embrace same as yours,wWell it is not my God,

You got that right. If you're a reflection of your God, then your God is mean.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
The paraphrase in my signature was placed there weeks ago specifically for the purpose of proving this point, because I knew it was just a matter of time before some Christian apologist would think I was being hypocritical or some such thing and hope to turn it on me.

Glad to be of service. And glad you can discard the sheep's clothing now.

Thanks for the props madman! Love right back at ya


[edit on 24-6-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
such a lashing out since our last discussion about Clement. By the way, my pastor quoted Clement two Sundays ago so there

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Your fundamentalist/evangelical or whatever demonination Christian religion,

You don't even know. Alright carnival guesser, what's my age, weight, occupation and shoe size?

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
So ill-learned are you in matters theological, that you assume such a nice reference to God in my signature has to be that of my God and you embrace same as yours,wWell it is not my God,

You got that right. If you're a reflection of your God, then your God is mean.

I can take by that, that you are both Christian (guess I'll have to since I did not get an answer.). What doctrine is irrelevant, you both carry the message of God, as known from the Bible.

I have watched you two bicker and banter and retaliate against each other for a couple of days now.

Do you have any idea how you further stagnate your own religion to the outsider?

You tell everydamnbody else that THEY are doing things in life wrong becuse YOUR GOD says it is, yet you come on a public forum with thousands of daily readers and carry on about yourselves as if you were both ten years old.

Those damn evil baby sacrificing Wiccans can have a meaningful and productive conversation with a Gardnerian (another Pagan belief system) and the only bickering be which one gets to buy that days lunch!!

Do you do this in front of your kids? you family? your neighbors?

Nice message you are sending, real nice message, you have proven not that there is a God, but have proven what many Pagans say you are guilty of - profess the guilt of the sin of others, but sin yourslelf (I hardly think your God says it's ok to fight for days). You are the bane of your own religion, as no one is going to see this and then become a part of it.

Misfit

Originally posted by Misfit
I can take by that, that you are both Christian (guess I'll have to since I did not get an answer.). What doctrine is irrelevant, you both carry the message of God, as known from the Bible.

Uhm, I hadn't heard somewhereinbetween say s/he was Christian, but I'll certainly make that claim. I am Christian.

Originally posted by Misfit
I have watched you two bicker and banter and retaliate against each other for a couple of days now.

Nah, we didn't go back and forth much. When s/he throws up a stone wall, I stop.

Originally posted by Misfit
Do you have any idea how you further stagnate your own religion to the outsider?

'scuse me, it looks to me we're not of the same religion.

Originally posted by Misfit
You tell everydamnbody else that THEY are doing things in life wrong becuse YOUR GOD says it is, yet you come on a public forum with thousands of daily readers and carry on about yourselves as if you were both ten years old.

Am I really being irrational?

Originally posted by Misfit
Those damn evil baby sacrificing Wiccans can have a meaningful and productive conversation with a Gardnerian (another Pagan belief system) and the only bickering be which one gets to buy that days lunch!!

What? Take that back, I have some good friends that are Wiccan.

Originally posted by Misfit
Do you do this in front of your kids? you family? your neighbors?

I stand up for the truth in-front of anyone. Is that not what I'm supposed to do?

Originally posted by Misfit
Nice message you are sending, real nice message, you have proven not that there is a God, but have proven what many Pagans say you are guilty of - profess the guilt of the sin of others, but sin yourslelf (I hardly think your God says it's ok to fight for days). You are the bane of your own religion, as no one is going to see this and then become a part of it.

Misfit

Calm down Misfit please, what are we talking about here? If you're saying Christians sin, everyone already knows. Jesus himself tells us that, I've talked this over a number of times with....LadyV? Is that you?

[edit on 24-6-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
You seem to make many assumptions with certain individuals.

You stated a difference between saint's GOD and your GOD.

Is there not only one omnipotent GOD of this place? A GOD that transcends all?

I make no assumptions about s4g, he claims to be a believer in Jesus, which leads me to your second point: as hard as it might be for you to think God in whatever form he is worshipped is The God, that is not so, for it is my contention that the God you worship is done in the the light of myths and idealogy built around a deity known consecutively known as Amun/Ra/Aten/El/El Shaddai/Yahwah/Jesus, where your entire conviction is based on those myths. Now is Buddah your God? How about Allah? Vishnu? Would I be correctly identifying your god if I told you that you believe in any of those?

I also know that saint, like myself, has a very open mind on subjects. Yet, you seem to want to belittle because of his Christian leanings. By the way saint is far from evangelical.

s4g has no open mind, in fact it is not only quite closed, it lacks memory also. Now note also, that I told him ages ago that I was not interested in exchanging anymore dialogue any longer with him for that very reason, yet, he has tried on many occassions to attract my attention by doing exactly what he did above, and that was yto respond to a post that I made. Well now he has attracted it, and you should note that he did so all on his own, I did not initiate dialogue with him, so don't be accusing me of belittling anyone by answering the man or you with facts.



[edit on 6/24/05 by SomewhereinBetween]

[edit on 6/24/05 by SomewhereinBetween]

Originally posted by saint4God
such a lashing out since our last discussion (well, more like a brow-beating from ya) about Clement. By the way, my pastor quoted Clement two Sundays ago so there

Excellent, and I am sure you were pleased to learn at least between the two of you, he at least knew of the man to quote him.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Your fundamentalist/evangelical or whatever demonination Christian religion,

... Alright carnival guesser, what's my age, weight, occupation and shoe size? who cares what your personal statistics are, you fall into either fundamentalist/evangelical or whatever Christian demoniation otherwise Jesus would not be your saviour. And it is this very insipid type of response from you that causes me to glide past your posts, for they are all filled with the same inanity.

You got that right. If you're a reflection of your God, then your God is mean.

Yes I know, the truth can appear to be mean.

Now as with my having to introduce you to Clement, the foibles of the gospels, numerous other issues with your doctrine and now Amenenope, I note you are once again lacking in any semblance of intellectual response, and resort to your usual childish display of smilies and childlike rhetoric:

Thanks for the props madman! Love right back at ya

It is obviously time to resume my flying by your posts.

Originally posted by MisfitI can take by that, that you are both Christian (guess I'll have to since I did not get an answer.). What doctrine is irrelevant, you both carry the message of God, as known from the Bible.

Refer response to madman.

I have watched you two bicker and banter and retaliate against each other for a couple of days now.

That is not true is it?

These are the posts I have made to s4g within the timeframe you mention:

6/24/05 at 03:50 AM Post Number: 1482090 (post id: 1503983)
6/24/05 at 07:52 AM Post Number: 1482705 (post id: 1504598)

Kindly note the date and hour on each, apparently a mere 4 hours and 2 minutes apart. Further, my post asked a question, this: Explain the point you are trying to make relative to my signature, be succinct this time, as in defining what my quotes mean to you and do they offend you, if so why, and if not, why not.

How then can you in all honesty make that claim?

Do you have any idea how you further stagnate your own religion to the outsider?

Refer response to madman, you will find that being a theist does not mean I adhere to any religion by whatever names exist or existed.

You tell everydamnbody else that THEY are doing things in life wrong becuse YOUR GOD says it is, yet you come on a public forum with thousands of daily readers and carry on about yourselves as if you were both ten years old.

Speaking of carrying on about themselves:

Those damn evil baby sacrificing Wiccans can have a meaningful and productive conversation with a Gardnerian (another Pagan belief system) and the only bickering be which one gets to buy that days lunch!!

You mention Wiccans because you are one is that not so?

I'll show the rest of your rant so you can relive it:

"Do you do this in front of your kids? you family? your neighbors?

Nice message you are sending, real nice message, you have proven not that there is a God, but have proven what many Pagans say you are guilty of - profess the guilt of the sin of others, but sin yourslelf (I hardly think your God says it's ok to fight for days). You are the bane of your own religion, as no one is going to see this and then become a part of it.

Misfit"