NHS Weakest Coronavirus patients will be denied lifesaving care

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: FredT

how many people needlessly die every year because they are priced out of our healthcare system?
We ration healthcare already..

I blame doctors and hospitals for overcharging and Obama and the Democrats for having us pay for health insurance that basically doesn't cover anything until you are half dead. Remember when they defended it in the Supreme Court as a TAX?

a reply to: JAGStorm

despite the assumed plethora of luxuries and conveniences installed in such a structure, i really don't think i'd like to survive the pandemic so i could live in a giant buried tin-can full of oligarchs.

originally posted by: toolgal462
meanwhile, we must provide narcam for 22 yr. old drug addicts who repeatedly OD.

But yah, 82 yr old we just gotta let die....Cuz you know, "money".

You are all talking like ghouls.

Some people are to frail to be saved. They could be intubated and kept alive for a week or so, for many thousands of dollars. There is not enough equipment or resources to save everybody in a worst-case scenario.
Hopefully, the elderly and those with serious health issues have already made a decision as to whether or not they want to use those resources, and have informed their family members of their wishes.
I absolutely despise the thought of having my life prolonged bay a few days to a couple of weeks in a hospital, knowing those resources were being denied to someone younger who had the possibility of surviving- and they would be the worst, most miserable days of my life.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
Sometimes it takes something truly horrible to get us all to stop fighting and realize how screwed we are.
I probably got you with the title, but this isn't about how bad NHS is versus US healthcare. It is about how both options are truly terrible.

I read about some of the people from the princess cruise going to a hospital in California. What struck me is that
the hospital said they were at capacity for isolation cases. CAPACITY??? That was just one tiny cruise. It really got me thinking
about what would happen if this is widespread. Then I read about the people they wanted to send to the FEMA camp in Alabama and nobody
wanted to take these folks. What is scary is this is a teeeny tiny amount of people.

Then I read in the UK at they are already stretched to the limit and won't be able to handle corona virus patients.
www.independent.co.uk...

Coronavirus: Weakest patients could be denied lifesaving care due to lack of funding for NHS, doctors admit......Those denied intensive care beds could be those suffering with coronavirus or other seriously ill patients, with priority given to those most likely to survive and recover.

China is dealing with is already. A lady said she saw them bag up old people and kill them... I believe her. Is that what is going to happen in the UK.

I don't think that will happen in the US, they will probably just let us die on our own...


So here we have it folks, It does not matter if we have socialized healthcare, or private healthcare. In true real world times of pandemics I fear
the only ones truly safe are all the rich people watching us eating popcorn from New Zealand...

If I were going to die...my biggest fear is that they will round me up and take me and NOT let me die at home and (alone).

Yes, you know very well that TPTB are already stocked and prepared for their private jets to take them to safety. And their accountants are stocking up on stocks. But that's ok because when we die, we can't take anything with us so they can do what they want. It is truly aggravating to see it happen just like we always said it would, but I truly feel sorry for them.

a reply to: MRinder

The problem was there before Obamacare. I was living in New York during the bush presidency. He decided to shortchange the states of their medicaid dollars and it about sparked a danged tax revolt because it left state and local govts no alternative but to increase taxes and fees that didnt let up till Bush's idea of an ownership society began to become a reality and people started seeing their home values skyrockets which lead to higher property taxes. Which was great till the whole thing blew up in our faces and left a bunch of worthless paper all through our banks and financial institutions. We had a life insurance company go under in the area I am living in now because they were holding too much worthless paper. Cant help but wonder... could the health insurance companies have been holding that worthless paper also? Was obamacare just another financial bailout?
But regardless.. we had a healthcare system that way too many people couldnt afford before Obamacare, the businesses were finding it too costly to continue to provide decent insurance for their employees, and states and local govts were unable to cope with.
Before there was obama in office!!!

This virus its self does not scare me to much going by china here in the US the flue will always be worse .
What does scare me is how well it is showing us just how badly ALL governments could handle the real deal . Lest face it Steven king immanged it with The stand movie - book caption trips a shifting flue created by the military and it got lose .
A movie or just a when it happens and the results of such . You decide .I already knew the truth but being movies it helps in denining them .
We always have known its not a matter off doom porn nore a what if BUT a when will it happen .
This is just another low key virus no real world changer But like the ROCK in space with earths name on it sooner or later That rock or That virus will come a calling and its game over .
odds are The human race will survive But all this so called civilization we hold so dear wont . As it is this civilization is balanced on a knifes edge .
deep down You know this I know this we all know this . Maybe it will be us maybe it will be our kids maybe it will be our great great grandchildren One thing is certen it WILL be Just not this time .
as a finly note all thous in favor of nation health care or personal health care if its end game NETHER will save you .

a reply to: rickymouse

The stuff in onions that makes you cry is like rocket fuel for the immune system; I discovered that years ago on my own since I like onions. (Yeah, I'm a redneck; I can eat stuff that'll make a shark gag and a billy goat puke.) Garlic is good for it, too. My standard advice to anyone with a bad cold or flu is, get an onion, eat it like it's an apple, get as warm as you can, and go to bed. You'll wake up drenched in sweat and feeling like there's a desert in your mouth, but the bug will be gone. Just re-hydrate and you're good.

Never heard of making a sandwich out of onion and garlic... but I'm gonna start telling people to do that. It seems most folks would rather die of the flu then eat a whole onion.

TheRedneck

a reply to: dawnstar

I haven't heard anyone say that healthcare was always affordable before Obama... it wasn't. I can remember a time when it was, but that was long, long before Obama! Obama didn't cause healthcare to get expensive; insurance did that. Every industry that has used insurance has become tremendously expensive. Auto repair, veterinary services, home repair, and now mechanics. Health care was the first industry it happened to.

People with good insurance don't mind using the services, so they increase the demand. At the same time, they also don't really care what those services cost, since it's not their money being spent. That's incentive for providers to raise the prices further. The result is that the services being paid for by insurance start to increase in cost, and that makes more people decide to insure. Then as prices keep rising, the insurance rates follow and the whole thing spirals into hyperinflation.

All Obama did was make it worse. Obamacare made insurance mandatory... which then made the entire country sitting ducks for whatever the insurance companies wanted to charge. You're absolutely right it was another type of bailout... and one that left the economy in shambles at the cost of those who could least afford it.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Mikemp44

With respect PLEASE STOP WITH THIS BS DEATH PANEL STUFF. The US system literally has the same thing, in fact it is worse because you guys out right pay for insurance that can be denied. Doctors have to speak to some insurance companies and then negotiate with them to get operations or treatment for a patient. You have death panels stop lying to yourself. If you cannot see paying a company who can decide what healthcare you can or can't have even AFTER you've paid for a certain level of insurance then you are a blind fool. The US FOR PROFIT system has death panels. Insurance companies change the rules at their whim. Stop pretending that the NHS is worse than the US when you literally have a for profit system that leaves behind the poor and barely surviving.

Death panels, an idiotic attempt to create a false debate and honestly I'm tired of reading it on here and facebook. A faceless company decides what you get and what you don't get at your cost, stop lying to yourself and pretending that the US doesn't have death panels. It's tiring and annoying.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: JAGStorm

Okay.... so it's time to PANIC!!!!
Pull your money out of the stock markets.
Hit the grocers and clear them out of canned foods and powdered milk.
Call your boss and tell him you are talking a two month vacation.
Pull out the camping gear and get lost in the forest.
Whatever...

Too late to pull your money out of the stock market, it is down a lot this week because of the panic. The fear mongering over this virus could really impact our economy if people keep spreading fear.

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: JAGStorm

Okay.... so it's time to PANIC!!!!
Pull your money out of the stock markets.
Hit the grocers and clear them out of canned foods and powdered milk.
Call your boss and tell him you are talking a two month vacation.
Pull out the camping gear and get lost in the forest.
Whatever...

Too late to pull your money out of the stock market, it is down a lot this week because of the panic. The fear mongering over this virus could really impact our economy if people keep spreading fear.

It's made the news worldwide, there's no stopping the subsequent panic.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: rickymouse

The stuff in onions that makes you cry is like rocket fuel for the immune system; I discovered that years ago on my own since I like onions. (Yeah, I'm a redneck; I can eat stuff that'll make a shark gag and a billy goat puke.) Garlic is good for it, too. My standard advice to anyone with a bad cold or flu is, get an onion, eat it like it's an apple, get as warm as you can, and go to bed. You'll wake up drenched in sweat and feeling like there's a desert in your mouth, but the bug will be gone. Just re-hydrate and you're good.

Never heard of making a sandwich out of onion and garlic... but I'm gonna start telling people to do that. It seems most folks would rather die of the flu then eat a whole onion.

TheRedneck

Onion chemistry keeps the blood from agglutinating, it is the sulfur compound in them that works for that. Quercetin is just one of the chemicals in the onion that helps, the thio-sulfate is what takes the charge off of the platelets so they do not stick together.

I get in trouble with onions, I use them to keep my blood from getting too sticky which leads to sore muscles and sometimes headaches. I don't use many aspirin in a year, maybe ten total. We made some homemade bone broth a couple of months ago from our half a cow and we made a big pot of onion soup to make french onion soup out of. It also makes great minestrome soup. Well, we ate onion soup for three days and I popped the front off the washer to check the antivibration straps to tighten the bolts so the washer wouldn't bounce so much. I cut my finger, just a small cut....talk about bleed.

You know that blood type diet stuff, where people need to eat food based on their blood type, I am type A, beef causes agglutination of the blood cells in As. So, just put some onion on your burger, and the part that thins your blood is heat stable, so onions go in the chili. We get a half a cow every year, I love beef, i always ate onions on my burgers and hot dogs. I never had to be told that, people learn and aren't even aware they do certain things, they do not always have to be taught what to eat..

a reply to: rickymouse

Well, I think it's a little more than just us worrying about how the virus might spread here at home that is causing the market to go nuts.
If the virus runs rampant in China for a long enough time, we will see shortages of alot of goods in this country which will play havoc in our businesses.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: Gothmog

Then I read about the people they wanted to send to the FEMA camp in Alabama

Where did you read that ?
Cite source.

www.fox10tv.com...

The Department of Health and Human Services announced that a FEMA facility in Anniston will be used to quarantine some passengers from the Diamond Princess cruise ship in Japan. The announcement was made Saturday.

Well now , I see FEMA Facility mentioned
I do not see FEMA "camp" anywhere .
Perhaps you mistranslated ?

a reply to: Gothmog

Well now , I see FEMA Facility mentioned
I do not see FEMA "camp" anywhere .
Perhaps you mistranslated ?

I misspoke, it is not a camp, it is a facility. I'm pretty sure 99.9999999% people got my gist

a reply to: JAGStorm
Well the pandemic plans being drafted in most nations is to free up as much bed space as possible to be able to handle a serious crisis, that means those who had elective surgeries planned won’t be able to and yes they will begin prioritizing cases and some are just out of luck. Then there’s the shortages of masks and suits the medical staff won’t have or them not even having enough staff at all.

So yes your headline is spot on.

a reply to: rickymouse
I love onions and always ate a lot due to that reason. Even if I made a can of pre- fab Campbell’s cream of chicken soup I’d dice up some onions and throw them in. I put them in tuna, mashed potatoes, everything.Every meal I made incorporated them.

However it didn’t stop me from having a blood clot in my brain in 2010. I have brain damage from that when it caused a massive stroke. Hope it serves you well though.
I love French onion soup!

a reply to: DISRAELI

I totally agree. It's bringing up a worst case scenario and using it as political ammunition.

But that being said nobody listens if you tell them bed numbers have been halved or more in their lifetime or that it's running near maximum capacity with massive losses in capability. It's all good having a modern NHS but there's serious issues when basic services can't be fulfilled.

In fact it usually costs tax payers more in the long run. The idea that any nation can be prepared for a serious pandemic is silly though, you can't man 1000's of beds, you can't maintain that many beds on the vary rare off chance a worst case scenario happens. It's unfeasible.

originally posted by: violet
a reply to: rickymouse
I love onions and always ate a lot due to that reason. Even if I made a can of pre- fab Campbell’s cream of chicken soup I’d dice up some onions and throw them in. I put them in tuna, mashed potatoes, everything.Every meal I made incorporated them.

However it didn’t stop me from having a blood clot in my brain in 2010. I have brain damage from that when it caused a massive stroke. Hope it serves you well though.
I love French onion soup!

Some people make a lot of Thrombin. Factor V, V11, X1, and other numbers can define how it acts in the body and that kind of is important in Thrombosis and clots in the brain. Onions only work so much to moderate it. Same goes for aspirin, it helps some people but not others. Bromelain also thins the blood, so does silimarin to a certain point.

Onions are not going to help everyone, that is why they have multiple types of medicines they make. They do make me into a bleeder, when I was about fifteen I was a bleeder, the doctor said I had some sort of bleeding disorder but it was not hemophilia. I guess I shouldn't have been eating a big bag of onion and garlic potato chips at a sitting, I realized that my bleeding disorder was called Old Dutch about ten years ago when I was around fifty five years old and started to study blood thinning chemistries in common foods for months. I really do not have a bleeding disorder after all.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

China is dealing with is already. A lady said she saw them bag up old people and kill them... I believe her. Is that what is going to happen in the UK.

In the history of Communism has this ever been different? It is not about the individual it is about the state with acceptable losses. 50 million in Russia and 100 million in China are acceptable losses as example.

BERNIE 2020!