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Bible contradictions & a Mystery

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posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:30 PM
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No need to disassemble anything. I am egotistical. Its not my fault that I have a higher IQ than you. I was born with the ability to reason. Therefore I do not make ridiculous claims because a horribly corrupt group of people tell me to citing a book that really makes little sense if you take it on the whole.

I am my own person. I do not care what you think of me. At what point did I describe myself as being non-egotistical? I do feel that I have a bigger brain than you and those like you. There is no other explanation for the irrational words that you type. So I called myself egotistical.

Tell me saint, what lies have I told you so far? I would like you to find one. By the way, can we still play the, "find saint being hypocritical" game?

Math buddy. A class that christians skip for obvious reasons. Science. Thats another one. Biology. If you had any clue as to how hard people work, and how they come to their conclusions, you would think differently about your life. Unfortuneatly, you are too insecure to think for yourself. You need a whole crapload of other people just like you to claim the ridiculous.

[edit on 3/9/2005 by Seapeople]




posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by LadyV
Exodus 20:5
for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers


If you are Christian, you must believe that living outside of the Garden of Eden was a direct result of Adam and Eve's sin. The reason why you and I weren't given a 'fair shake' is because under the same conditions, our decisions would be the same. I'm feeling punished, but I'm not dead. If my mom/dad is jailed, would I not have some sufferage from that? If I were wise, I'd take that as a growth experience not to do anything like mom/dad. In growth there is strength.


Originally posted by LadyV
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father


Supposing my actual father/mother was a murderer. S/he would die for his/her sins when without redemption. This does not mean I'll be guilty of her/his murderings. I have the life God gave me to choose whether to live in sin or seek redemption for my own actions. Here's the verse that was right before the one you quoted:

"Yet you ask, 'Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?' Since the son has done what is just and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live".

So here it says the son done good, why would his soul die? The answer is as you've quoted, his soul will not die.

Candidly, if you try to keep track of all the different types of scenarios, surely you'll have a very challenging time deciding to do anything. Jesus talked about doing what's good as it comes from your heart out of love. Then, instead of keeping tabs of 'each case scenario', surely you'll make the right decision. God put those right feeling there for us to use.

Did this help or should I not try the next set?



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:49 PM
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Wasn't Jealousy described as a sin somewhere?



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
No need to disassemble anything. I am egotistical.


That was an incredibly sensible statement so for that I say thanks. This should help me communicate and understand better.


Originally posted by Seapeople
Its not my fault that I have a higher IQ than you.


Are you determining this from the volume of knowledge or the ability to quickly acquire knowledge? When did I take this test? What is my IQ? I seriously never have taken one so I don't know. I think what's more important is the application of said knowledge in an inciteful manner which makes practical sense - wisdom.


Originally posted by Seapeople
I was born with the ability to reason.


That's different than IQ.


Originally posted by Seapeople
Therefore I do not make ridiculous claims because a horribly corrupt group of people tell me to citing a book that really makes little sense if you take it on the whole.


Me either. That would suck.


Originally posted by Seapeople
I am my own person. I do not care what you think of me. At what point did I describe myself as being non-egotistical?


Never, but just because your egotistical doesn't make all Christians egotistical, know it all, arrogant, etc.


Originally posted by Seapeople
I do feel that I have a bigger brain than you and those like you.


Ah. You've been told size counts or was that your own conclusion?


Originally posted by Seapeople
There is no other explanation for the irrational words that you type. So I called myself egotistical.

Tell me saint, what lies have I told you so far?


I believe you believe what you say is true. This is why I'm concerned. When people lie they tend to get caught up in their own traps.


Originally posted by Seapeople
I would like you to find one.


I cannot find a single lie per above. I haven't been looking for you to lie, rather try to understand how you see things as you do and the benefits or consequences thereof. I guess I'm a bit of an optimist.


Originally posted by Seapeople
By the way, can we still play the, "find saint being hypocritical" game?


Sure, I'm game. No, I'm not arrogant enough to believe I'll win for sure.


Originally posted by Seapeople
Math buddy. A class that christians skip for obvious reasons.


My favorite was Calculus. Lots of short-cuts.


Originally posted by Seapeople
Science. Thats another one. Biology.


My field of study. Genetics. The virus that causes AIDS is incredibly complex.


Originally posted by Seapeople
If you had any clue as to how hard people work,


40 hours a week + overtime when required. Just like everyone else.


Originally posted by Seapeople
and how they come to their conclusions, you would think differently about your life. Unfortuneatly, you are too insecure to think for yourself. You need a whole crapload of other people just like you to claim the ridiculous.


I became a Christian without a church. Spent 15 years without a church, attending only within the past year. I like how you're taking stabs to put me in a demographic so that I can be stereotyped. That's okay, I'm kinda interested in what I'd be stereotyped as also.

[edit on 9-3-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 10:41 PM
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Well done saint.

This is where he announces that he 'caught you in a lie' and then keeps repeating until he believes it. At that point he will respond to your posts by saying your a liar and therefore not worth responding to.

Its a shame to see someone so filled with hate toward God and the Truth.



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 05:13 AM
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Saint and jake,

You guys can tear everything I say apart all you want. When everything is said and done, I still don't believe thaqt someone can walk on water.

Hey saint, just for kicks...have you ever seen anyone walk on water aside from a puddle or freshly mopped kitchen floor? How about this, have you ever seen someone float away into the sky without any help from technology?

I am not the fool who believes in this stuff. I am sorry that you don't see that. But, tear this apart as you always do...as if your foolish beliefs are worth anything.

Oh and edit,

I do not believe for one second that you are intelligent. Nor do I believe you know anything about calculous. If you by any slim chance do, I do not believe it matter to you, because you foolishly through all those wonderful lines of study away when they contradict your beliefs.

So you don't understand how I see things, and it concerns you? That is outright amazing.

[edit on 3/10/2005 by Seapeople]



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 06:42 AM
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If you by any slim chance do, I do not believe it matter to you, because you foolishly through all those wonderful lines of study away when they contradict your beliefs.


Thats a clincher right there.



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 06:43 AM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
Wasn't Jealousy described as a sin somewhere?


Commandment 10 (Exodus 20:17) is coveting your neighbors stuff. Psalms sings about getting away from want. Jesus didn't talk a lot about coveting other than to say you can't take your stuff with you to Heaven (rich man approaches Jesus, love that story Luke 18:18). Check this out, a rich guy goes up to Jesus and asks what he needs to do to get to Heaven because he thought he did everything as commanded. Still, there was that dirty little secret in his heart that he clinched on to his possessions, prizing it above everything. Jesus goes "sell off all your stuff" being that he knew the guy held his possessions most dear to him. Dude says, "No thanks, see ya Jesus" and walks away. Doh! Surely the man knew he couldn't take it with him after he died, didn't he? Nevertheless he chose this short little life over eternity. That my friends, is just plain scary in my perspective.

I think I know where you may be going with this. I do throw that word around and say "I wish" this or that so !guilty as charged! for being imperfect. This is not a common practice of mine nor have I claimed to never do this. BAM! Let's get to the heart of saint4God's sin nature here. By the way, has anyone ever said a saint is without sin? Should I apologize to God and change my ways? Yeah, I have and am working hard daily to maintain proper focus and discipline.

But but! I shouldn't speak for my prosecutor nor jump to conclusions, so go ahead Seapeople. I too am curious about where the hammer drops.



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
I still don't believe that someone can walk on water.
[edit on 3/10/2005 by Seapeople]


"That is why you fail" the wise Yoda says while sagely nodding his head.


Seriously Seapeople, science doesn't say that miracles can't happen. It only tells us that they don't happen now. It shows that the natural world around us is operating within constant laws of physics and chemistry. Thanks to these laws, fire always burns, the dead never arise, and nobody walks on water. However, science can’t tell us that this was always the case in history nor that this necessarily will always be so in every instance in the future.

The belief that this was always the case in history does not come from “science,” but from a philosophy called naturalism. Naturalism holds that nature is all there is and there are no supernatural entities, such as God, to have influence over nature. This philosophic view is a belief, not a testable, observable fact. Therefore, when you object to walking on water, you are doing so not because of science, but because of faith in naturalism. FAITH. The same thing you detest so much because you think that it blinds people from the truth. The same thing that Christians here have, that makes them believe in someone called Jesus, who they say is the Son of God.

[edit on 10-3-2005 by babloyi]



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
You guys can tear everything I say apart all you want.


I sooo am not intending to do this! What kind of brother/sister delights in seeing a sibling fall and leaves them broken? Not a very nice one I'd venture to say. Though we disagree (a lot), I believe we are beginning to learn from and undestand each other. Hopefully at least that is evident in the progression of these threads. There is a benefit here if we continue, though at some times I'm sure it seems to hurt us both. I know, I know, speak for yourself saint4God
. If we had nothing to offer each other than there would be no point in having these conversations.


Originally posted by Seapeople
When everything is said and done, I still don't believe thaqt someone can walk on water.


Okay, I can see how that's outta the ballpark for a lot of people.


Originally posted by Seapeople
Hey saint, just for kicks...have you ever seen anyone walk on water aside from a puddle or freshly mopped kitchen floor?


Yes. I've witnessed and being a goofy kid, have done it as well.


Originally posted by Seapeople
How about this, have you ever seen someone float away into the sky without any help from technology?


No. I'm trying to imagine an instance and falling short.


Originally posted by Seapeople
I am not the fool who believes in this stuff. I am sorry that you don't see that. But, tear this apart as you always do...as if your foolish beliefs are worth anything.


I couldn't expect anyone to believe in any miracles without experience a few themselves. We're very proof driven people. I'm embarrassed that it took a miracle in order for me to believe. I would've much rather just believed and feel in that I had more strength of mind. But the past is the past and things are what they are for a reason so I need to kick out that embarrassment and wishful thinking.


Originally posted by Seapeople
Oh and edit,

I do not believe for one second that you are intelligent. Nor do I believe you know anything about calculous. If you by any slim chance do, I do not believe it matter to you, because you foolishly through all those wonderful lines of study away when they contradict your beliefs.


My favorite was derivatives. We had to do them the 'long way' first taking pages and pages to solve. Then the derivative gives a 3-step solution in less than half a sheet of paper. Want me to that the second and third? Just repeat it like a recipe, I could do it all day! I only got a C+ but it was cool and counted towards the degree. Hey, what difference does any of this make? Are you saying that intelligence = morals? We could start a separate thread on this topic.


Originally posted by Seapeople
So you don't understand how I see things, and it concerns you? That is outright amazing.


Thank you. Rarely is anything I say or do called amazing



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 07:06 PM
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Wow what a heated discussion! I only had the time to read the last two pages and I'll try to read the first 2 pages soon. Hmm...Some interesting concepts surfacing!

Hey saint, just for kicks...have you ever seen anyone walk on water aside from a puddle or freshly mopped kitchen floor?
Yes. I've witnessed and being a goofy kid, have done it as well.

Saint. I dont understand. You were goofy enough to walk on water? Exactly how did you do this?



My favorite was derivatives. We had to do them the 'long way' first taking pages and pages to solve. Then the derivative gives a 3-step solution in less than half a sheet of paper. Want me to that the second and third? Just repeat it like a recipe, I could do it all day! I only got a C+ but it was cool and counted towards the degree. Hey, what difference does any of this make? Are you saying that intelligence = morals? We could start a separate thread on this topic.


Nothing against what you said Saint but it pisses me off when people study calculus and all they remember is the mundane derivative calculations. Its one thing to do derivatives and its another to question why its being used for. Thats the difference between being a "technician" and a "scientist" Ever tried finding curvatures of blobs? Fun stuff. Way off topic but fun stuff.



Are you saying that intelligence = morals?

Absolutely not. But it follows the same logic as Lack of religion=immoral. See how ridiculous that sounds now?



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 07:22 PM
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When I see a thread like this, it only serves to reinforce my opinion that Christians should not use the Old Testament as their religious scriptures.
The major contradictions here are Old Testament words versus New Testament. It only goes to prove that the two books were written for two different religions and that they should be kept separate.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by Leveller
It only goes to prove that the two books were written for two different religions and that they should be kept separate.


It's almost as if power changed hands isn't it? The old testament is stern and harsh...eye for an eye.....and the new testament is love your enemy, turn the other cheek! I have always thought this. I believe there is so much more that isn't known about the truth of "god" in terms of "who" the characters of the bible are...


[edit on 3/11/2005 by LadyV]



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by I_s_i_s

Wow what a heated discussion! I only had the time to read the last two pages and I'll try to read the first 2 pages soon. Hmm...Some interesting concepts surfacing!

Hey saint, just for kicks...have you ever seen anyone walk on water aside from a puddle or freshly mopped kitchen floor?
Yes. I've witnessed and being a goofy kid, have done it as well.

Saint. I dont understand. You were goofy enough to walk on water? Exactly how did you do this?


My bad, I misread this one. I could explain what I thought this meant but would just get more confusing I'm sure. Not my first mistake and most certainly will not be my last.


Originally posted by I_s_i_s
Nothing against what you said Saint but it pisses me off when people study calculus and all they remember is the mundane derivative calculations. Its one thing to do derivatives and its another to question why its being used for. Thats the difference between being a "technician" and a "scientist" Ever tried finding curvatures of blobs? Fun stuff. Way off topic but fun stuff.


Good deal. I hadn't taken more than the required courses in this field. Glad to hear it gets better.


Originally posted by I_s_i_s


Are you saying that intelligence = morals?

Absolutely not. But it follows the same logic as Lack of religion=immoral. See how ridiculous that sounds now?


I've met moral people who've had no religion. I've met religious people who have had no morals. I've met amoral people who've had no religion and finally moral people with religion. I can say though, in my experience with God I've acquired morals and know great deal of those who have done the same.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by Leveller
It only goes to prove that the two books were written for two different religions and that they should be kept separate.


It's almost as if power changed hands isn't it? The old testament is stern and harsh...eye for an eye.....


Might I suggest the books of Proverbs, Daniel and Isaiah? In addition to bridging the perceived gap between old and new, they offer a lot in the way of hope, miracle, and doing right. How could I forget Psalms! Strike up the band, it's time to party for God.



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 05:22 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God
How could I forget Psalms! Strike up the band, it's time to party for God.



God did party in Psalms. He partied with all the other gods at the Council.
As for the other books that you suggest? They're still Judaic in flavour.

One of the reasons Daniel stands out could be because it was written much later than the time it claims to be from, and it is much closer to the time of Christianity and when Judaism was evolving. If we look at the text we can find many inconsistencies that show it to be of a much later date than that which the author claims. It's likely that Daniel is as late as the 1st Century BC.

Isaiah is a totally different kettle of fish and I would question the totality of it's relevance to Christianity. The Church has used the prophecies contained within Isaiah to cement Jesus' standing amongst his followers. They claim that the prophesies refer to Jesus' life, death and execution.
But if you really read Isaiah and you study the history of the period and the political climate surrounding it, one can more logically interpret that Isaiah never refers to Jesus. What he is prophesising is the destruction of Jerusalem and then it's rebuilding by a king. If we take a look at Isaiah's place in the Bible, we can see that he is surrounded by other prophetical books which are doing exactly the same. The prophesies Isaiah makes refer to the Assyrians not to Jesus.

I certainly don't go for bridging a gap between Old and New. The connections are far, far too tenuous. About the only thing in the Old Testament that might hold water as a connection is Micah. But even then it is highly contentious wether Jesus was actually born in Bethlehem. THe NT writers couldn't even agree on the timing of his birth and they refer to him living in a non-existant town (Nazareth wasn't founded until well after Jesus' time), what credibility does this give to their claims of a location for his birth?



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 06:00 AM
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People who quote from the Old Testament are going to run into problems. They are a collection of Jewish books that the early christions choose to in clude in the bible. The book of ENOCH is quoted in the Bible, but not included.
Christ had to answer a zillion questions from the high priests (Jews). He interpreted old scripture in a BRAND NEW LIGHT. "Old wine skins can NOT hold NEW wine (His new teachings)." They burst due to the fermentation process. The FOUR Gospels have the living, breathing Christ, teaching and healing. The God of the Old Testament was a God of "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth." Christ came along, and said woah hold on a second. "Love one another!!" Treat others as you'd want to be treated. "Love your enemies", because how hard is it to love only friends? He challanged his followers and the Jewish hiearchy!! It's good to see the Lady trying to understand the Bible.



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 06:20 AM
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there's literally 1000s of contradictions, yet however many you say, print or show a christian doesnt give a # because they're too ignorant to see their religion in it's real light... lies upon lies



posted on Mar, 14 2005 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by Leveller
Isaiah is a totally different kettle of fish and I would question the totality of it's relevance to Christianity. The Church has used the prophecies contained within Isaiah to cement Jesus' standing amongst his followers. They claim that the prophesies refer to Jesus' life, death and execution.
But if you really read Isaiah and you study the history of the period and the political climate surrounding it, one can more logically interpret that Isaiah never refers to Jesus. What he is prophesising is the destruction of Jerusalem and then it's rebuilding by a king. If we take a look at Isaiah's place in the Bible, we can see that he is surrounded by other prophetical books which are doing exactly the same. The prophesies Isaiah makes refer to the Assyrians not to Jesus.


What about Isaiah 7:14? - "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel (God with us). "

and

Isaiah 9 - "Nevertheless, there will be no more gloom for those who were in distress. In the past he humbled the Land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honor Galilee of the Gentiles..." Continuing on is more about the child being born called wonderful Couselor, Mighty God, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 25, 26, 40, 42 for praises to God. Isaiah 35's Joy of the Redeemed including "a highway called the Way of Holiness."

There's more I'm sure, but just showing how the New and Old relate. Thanks for including Mica, that's a good one too.

[edit on 14-3-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 07:23 AM
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On the Bible and Contradictions.....................

Source Quote///The Bible is divided into the Old and New Testaments. The New Testament contains the fulfillment and completeness of the entire Divine truth, while the Old Testament — the preparatory, pedagogically incomplete unfolding of it.

Human nature is distorted by sin, which penetrated into it through the downfall of our forefathers and the increased multiple personal sins of people in the further generations.
In order to prepare rotten mankind to accept the Son of God and His Divinely-Full Law, a most attentive and full of care process was necessary. It is that process that the Lord carries out in the Old Testament.

The very appearance of the Old Testament, the endowing of the initial Divine Revelation on the Mount of Sinai, is a rather significant stage, in its turn prepared by the careful process of the Divine selection among the people and the upbringing of this selection.

Originally, God gave Moses only the first part of the Bible, i.e. the Torah, which means "the Law," lying in the five books of the Pentateuch: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.

During the long period of time only the Pentateuch or the Torah was the Holy Scripture in the full meaning of the word, the Divine Word for the Old Testament church, though at once, after the Torah, there appeared the first lines of the following scriptures, organically proceeding from the authentic Divine Law.
The Book of Joshua began to be written, when the creation of Deuteronomy was about to be finished.

The Book of Judges is the continuation of the book of Joshua.
The Books of Kings are the continuation of the book of Judges.
The Paralipomenon, i.e. the Chronicles, are the addition for the book of Kings.
The Books of Ezra and Nehemiah are continuing the Books of Kings and Paralipomenon.
The Books of Ruth, Esther, Judith and Tobit draw the separate episodes of the history of the chosen nation.
Finally, the books of Maccabees end the narration about the history of Israel and lead it to the threshold of the coming of Christ.

Sorry, there's more..alot of writing.......
www.orthodoxphotos.com...

helen....
Glory be to God and His Saints.....



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