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Bible contradictions & a Mystery

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posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 10:10 AM
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By the way glad to see the rumors are not true LadyV for more info on that u2u me .

Now onto the contradiction issue ....this is an issue pointed out in the theological portion of seminary, where in we are taught that context is a major role in every scripture written and that in such not all scriptures are meant to interconnect in a chain of coherancy like you have formulated here.


To explain further

The Exodus reference is to point out that the false Gods and Idols that the peoples fore fathers built and taught them to worship would lead the children / prodigy into damnation.

Now the Ezekiel reference is to point out each person is responsible for his or her own choices and sins against God

Now compair the two the fore fathers taught of false God and God warns that if these false Gods where worshipped by the children then the choice they made individually to fallow their fore fathers teachings and not Gods , would lead to their own damnation,,,,,,,there is no contradiction really you just took a part and didnt take the whole context.



The acts reference is what is called a parable it teaches the fruits of the labors Judas undertook by betraying his Lord and Savior left his spirit total destruction it was not a litteral term.


Now the Matthew reference comfirms the desolation of the sole and that in knowing he wronged his Lord that he had destroyed himself spritually so in guilt he took the money back and then hung himself ....you should however note that even though this was a design of God for the facilitation of a means to an end , that in fact Judas fell at the feet of his master and was forgiven ....the sole was not damned for its role in the events God had dictated ....God wished to set forth a scene of events to show yet another parable existed.
The point was not how close you profess to be with God thru Jesus Christ you can still fall from grace by your betrayals and that only through repentance shall ye be saved, words are not the actions God looks for in salvation But words and actions together.





The question you pose on the last verse you have put in a form of prophetic speculation so as to respond in like I will have to get back with you on that I must even consult others at times ....and I went to school for years to get this education ....but alas God said Noone man shall know all things for thru total knowledge will he become arrogant and begin to believe himself equal with God his creator.






[edit on 14/4/2005 by drbryankkruta]

[edit on 14/4/2005 by drbryankkruta]




posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by drbryankkruta
By the way glad to see the rumors are not true LadyV for more info on that u2u me .


Hmmm...there has been a lot of rumours around about me as of late...which one are you referring to? LOL...Check your messages....just sent you a U2



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by drbryankkruta
By the way glad to see the rumors are not true LadyV for more info on that u2u me .


Hmmm...there has been a lot of rumours around about me as of late...which one are you referring to? LOL...Check your messages....just sent you a U2









Done and done the response is in your U2U by now



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Very interesting quotes from the bible LadyV, but occurs as usual when we challenge the bible religious zealous will discredit you with their bible rant even when the truth has been all alone in the bible itself.

They will take what is favor their views and disregard historical facts.


Thank you, Marg, for showing ignorant bias about "zealots", while adding nothing to the thread.

I, as a Christian, as one who studies the Bible to gain understanding, and as one who prays for the Holy Spirit to guide me when I do, might have a bit of understanding, as well as others who do the same, over those who do not believe. The Book says it will be a mystery to those who read and try to understand.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Thank you, Marg, for showing ignorant bias about "zealots", while adding nothing to the thread.



Spare me the rhetoric no body until this day in time has been able to prove that anything in the bible is by the word of god, so take your "ignorant bias" to somebody that will feel intimidated by people like you.


Now I can prove to you that the bible was written by men as bias as you.




[edit on 14-4-2005 by marg6043]



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 02:00 PM
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*cracks knuckles* Okay, let's have a looksee, shall we?


Originally posted by LadyV
First a couple of blatant contradictions......

Acts 1:18
(With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out.

Matthew 27:5
So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.


The following is an except. I don't think I agree with the rest of the site I got it from but I'm wondering if this provides explanation:

The term "hanged himself" is not the typical picture viewed by the Western mind, which is a rope tied around a person's neck and dangling from a tree or high place of some kind. According to the Eastern culture, the method of hanging oneself draws an entirely different picture. King Saul fell upon his own sword. This was the method of hanging or committing suicide for government or military personnel. Judas was a common man who fell upon a stake. The term "hanging" is used for this type of suicide because the victims suspended themselves on pointed objects. By such action, the abdomen was punctured and the bowels gushed out, as is described.

I cannot confirm nor deny these allegations, so I'd love to hear thoughts and facts on this as it's the first time I'm investigating it.

Two other theories I've heard on the 'bursting' are:

The body was swollen so that when he was cut down, he burst.

Bursting was a metaphor based on Matthew 9:17, Mark 2:22, and Luke 5:37. They all talk about burstings.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, money and property. Reading FURTHER into Matthew after he returned the 30 coins, saying he sinned and left... (Matt 27:6)

"The chief priests picked up the coins and said, "It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money." So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners. That is why it has been called the Field of Blood to this day. Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."

Aha! So they bought the field with Judas' money. It was a purchase by his money (probably because by law there was no 'give back' clause in trade). So it was Judas' field, bought and paid for by money that was rightfully his since he did his job, though he did not want it.


What do I think? I think he had only 30 pieces of silver, then returned all 30 pieces of silver. I think he hanged himself. I think he made a spectacle on his land/the land Pharisees paid for, so a worker for the Pharisees went out, possibly cut into his stomach (just like the roman's piercing Jesus' side) to make sure he was dead, then cut the robe where Judas was hanging. He then fell headlong with guts spilling out from the previous incision.

Join us next time on CSI Golgotha.







[edit on 14-4-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 02:01 PM
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Duplicate, sorry.


[edit on 14-4-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 02:22 PM
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Spare me the rhetoric no body until this day in time has been able to prove that anything in the bible is by the word of god,


Very very true....the Nag hamadi scrolls were written more or less between 30 and 36 years after the death of Jesus in ad32, this date aswell is approximate and not accurate.."lift the rock and there you´ll find me, cut the wood and there i will be" what the scrolls teach us is that the "Houses of god" the great and grandous churchs that we have arnt necessary, you have to find the peace within yourself, the REAL teachings of the man named jesus teach us that the church is all around us and inside of us..the essenians, the sect from which derives christianity (christianity being gnostic thought mixed with egyptian and persian culture) where the writers of the true word, from which derives the bible which was first written 300 years after the death of jesus and in alexandria, not the holy land
The bible is a damn good book, a hell of read...but chopped and changed by every church to serve its own purposes..Its all the word of man...not the word of a supreme being that doesnt exist...



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by andy1972
The bible is a damn good book, a hell of read...but chopped and changed by every church to serve its own purposes..Its all the word of man...not the word of a supreme being that doesnt exist...


This isn't just for you but for everyone who uses this excuse.

I live for Christ and read the Bible everyday and it changes me. I could name others I know who are changed by what it contains. It's simply an excuse to say it is flawed, based on someone ele's opinion. The only way someone can say it's flawed is if they read it for themselves.

Knowing God and reading the Bible is a committment just like getting married. Everyday growth occurs and a relationship is established that becomes deeper and stronger. If one hasn't come to God through Christ it is easy to say that it is flawed and that would be a proper response from that point of view. But once you committ to God it is opened to a person to understand.

I didn't always read the Bible and to a certain degree didn't think you needed to. I was wrong!

You say the Bible has been changed by mankind. I KNOW THE BIBLE CHANGES MANKIND.(emphasis)



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 04:37 PM
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Well I can testify on my creator's name that he and me have the most closes relationship and the bible has never been mention between he and me.

So if you need the middle man to help you get closer to your God, well that is a matter of choice.

I go directly to the source and so far I have a good life wonderful husband and two children that any mother could be proud of it.

And the bible and the middle man was not the ones I have to credit for it, but my personal relationship with my creator.

And that is something that nobody can take away from me, that is why I don't get offended by comments of others and I can take criticism because my beliefs keep me strong.

But I notice that "religious zealots" and "religious fundamentalist" are the most thin skinned and short temper people I have seen.

And they have not problem offending and calling others name when others disagree with their believes.

I wonder if their faith is as strong as they think, even with the bible and Jesus.

I have it all and I am a very happy person.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Very interesting quotes from the bible LadyV, but occurs as usual when we challenge the bible religious zealous will discredit you with their bible rant even when the truth has been all alone in the bible itself.

They will take what is favor their views and disregard historical facts.


I thought the bible wasn't a historical document. Of course we will defend something we love, wouldn't you?



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 05:10 PM
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The bible has historical value that is something undeniable, but only on certain parts of history like the history of the Jewish people for them the old testament is very important.

You have to understand that the bible centers on a blood line of a Messiah until the birth of the Christ and then the new testament and the history of the Church takes over.

But you can not rely on the bible to understand the history of the entire world because it does not mention other civilizations but the ones centered in the middle east.

The world happen to be a lot bigger since the bible was written.



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 06:27 PM
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well fortunately for me, at least in my opinion, i do believe what is in the bible, but not adam and eve. I think that is metaphorical, and that is my stance on this issue. I am just saying, the reason we defend our religion is because we love it. most of us have had some sort of life altering experience that showed us God's existence, and then from that point on have seen way too many "coincidences."



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 06:56 PM
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I believe in my creator, God whatever other name is given, I have prof of his existence in every day of my life, in my dreams in my thoughts, in every aspect of life in the world in the universe, is always my guidance, but for some reason, religion is of none importance to me.........when I can have the same relationship without the middle man.

We all have our creator with us, in our minds and hart, and to tell you the truth life is lot happier without having some self God appointee, telling me that the church is going to save me.

Sorry is not the church or the bible or the Christ, is up to me how I want to do my role in life and get ready for the after life when we get to go home and finish the trials of earthy life.



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 03:42 AM
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hey...hold the phone...proof?? proof is not a dream. proof is not a thought. proof is not because you really really believe it.

let me take your ideology and merge it with my mostly atheist viewpoint...

evolution is true. it's real and it's all around us...i have conclusive proof! i have witnessed the process in my dreams, my thoughts tell me its all so true and because i really really believe in evolution that makes it true. that is pretty much your arguement with evolution in place of god's name. Just switch the names and you have your arguement.

someone a few posts earlier said that people have life changing experiences which lead them to god, or there are too many coincidences to not believe in god. have you ever seen the movie '12 angry men', its about 12 jury men who go back in to a room and all decided whether they should say guilty or not guilty. one man says not guilty and through the movie gets doubt in everyone's mind and the end result is not guilty. even though there were many coincidences involved with the man in question, with the murder...he ended up not guilty. my point is that just because there are many coincidences attributed to god-like going ons doesnt mean that he's real.

so lets see some people's basis to believe in god:

1) too many coincidences lead them to believe there is a god. in other words they think they may have witnessed god-like scenarios on more than one occasion...or in my terms '# happens'.
2) their dreams have lead them to believe there is also a god, hence meaning there is conclusive proof...according to one person anyways.
3) their personal thoughts tell me god is real. most likely attributed to the god-gene or brain washing from too much church.
4) they have a personal relationship with god through jesus....so not much proof or not much to base your beliefs on is it.

holy #ing jesus christ on a bicycle...if science took that ideology and used it, when doing science, we'd be moving backwards. we'd be de-evolving. i dont think newton said there is gravity and 'its real because i dreamt it'...no he proved it. that's perhaps one of the main thing that pisses me off so much about religion...people not being able to justify their reason for being religious or believing in a god. you may say that you don't have to justify it...but i think you do. if you say that you don't have to justify it...then you're basically saying that you can't justify your reasons and you're just trying to get out of it by saying that you dont have to justify it.

p.s. perhaps one of the justified reasons for some people to believe in god, 'hahahaha we've got the bible, yeah beat that science!'........ omg, even more conclusive proof!! quick where can i convert before i end up in hell!!........



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Well I can testify on my creator's name that he and me have the most closes relationship and the bible has never been mention between he and me.


I don't think there's any problem with that. I was asked to pick up the Book and read read read. Apparently, I need this background to do the work I was called to. Perhaps your mission is to show how people to connect who are looking for a similar kind of foundational personal relationship. Maybe my role is to show logic and reason within the Word so that it can be trusted before a an inquisitor can accept God as good and righteous. I'm very proof-driven and hard-headed, so I need conviction and validation before I can accept something as correct. Perhaps you're more open-hearted and that's a lesson I should be learning from you.

After 15 years of being Christian, I've recently found a church that utilizes me in the way I needed to do His work. I'm learnin' stuff, getting connected, and getting to work with what I'm told my mission is. I don't believe people HAVE to go to church, but the one I go to helps me. I will dispute someone though who makes gross generalized assumption statements against 'the institution' because it's 'the man keeping them down'. I've got my proof that says otherwise.

To say "God only works one way" is a bit narrow-minded I think. He's pretty creative and knows what He's doing with His people. It sounds to me from your statements that you're connected. I also know I am too, so who's right? I think we both are.


Originally posted by marg6043
So if you need the middle man to help you get closer to your God, well that is a matter of choice.


Certainly a possibility. I like talking to God direct myself.


Originally posted by marg6043
I go directly to the source and so far I have a good life wonderful husband and two children that any mother could be proud of it.


Awesome, awesome, awesome. I love good news!


Originally posted by marg6043
And the bible and the middle man was not the ones I have to credit for it, but my personal relationship with my creator.

And that is something that nobody can take away from me, that is why I don't get offended by comments of others and I can take criticism because my beliefs keep me strong.

But I notice that "religious zealots" and "religious fundamentalist" are the most thin skinned and short temper people I have seen.


I don't know why 'fundamentalist' became a swear word... I like to think I'm 'fundamental' because I put God first, His son and His Word. Yet the 'haters' are called fundamentalist. Yuck. God does not want us to hate.


Originally posted by marg6043
And they have not problem offending and calling others name when others disagree with their believes.

I wonder if their faith is as strong as they think, even with the bible and Jesus.


That's the difference between 'Christians' and Christians. The first one called themselves "Christians" and the others actually understand God's Word. If you understand God's Word without the Bible, excellent. For me though, I need the Book now and then to clarify. He'll give me answers but wants me to do the research first. There's something about the progression of logic and reason He wants me to follow. I'm thinking it's to help others see how the conclusion is reached.


Originally posted by marg6043
I have it all and I am a very happy person.


Thanks for bringing this to the table marg. It gave me a lot of insight into myself, why I'm directed to do some things, and was very thought provoking.

Pray, train, study.
God bless.


[edit on 15-4-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043

So if you need the middle man to help you get closer to your God, well that is a matter of choice.



Who is this middleman you are talking about?



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by marg6043

So if you need the middle man to help you get closer to your God, well that is a matter of choice.



Who is this middleman you are talking about?


Hey, good question. I assumed she meant priest or pastor...



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 09:03 AM
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I always tend to see the Church and the self appointed God men to be the middle man between a person and his creator, that is why church is so powerful, because if gives the impression to many that only through the church as a mediator you can only achieve salvation can be close to God.

I tell you what, just take the time for reflection anywhere you are and your creator be with you at all times.

No church, not middle man needed, that is not so hard to understand, right?

Why to confess your sin and your feelings to a middle man that is as sinful or more than you? Right?

Just direct it to your creator yourself, is more gratifying.

Many uses the church for socializing and for charity works and because it makes you feel good.

But I do the same in the nearest coffee shop, and I give to charity myself.

If I have need for guidance I don't run to a middle man to guide me, I ask my creator myself, and guess what I get an answer all the time.

Most middle man instead of making you feel good it blames your problems to you for been sinful and not believing enough.

Or for not be more faithful to the church and to their coffers.

By the way coming from a Catholic, seventh day split household, I had my interpretation of the bible times two, one by the Catholic point of view of the new testament, the other one by the Seventh day church interpretation of it.

Yes I knew the bible like the palm of my hand, and I always was one of those that were questioning everything, the Sunday school teacher didn't like me very much.

People understand something here I am not an atheist, I believe in a higher being that controls all. I just don't believe on anything make by man in the name of God.



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
I always tend to see the Church and the self appointed God men to be the middle man between a person and his creator, that is why church is so powerful, because if gives the impression to many that only through the church as a mediator you can only achieve salvation can be close to God.

I tell you what, just take the time for reflection anywhere you are and your creator be with you at all times.


I do the self reflection thing in the duration of about 24/6. On the remaining day, then it's 22 hours. Two of it I listen to what someone else has to say who has dedicated more time and study to it. Surprisingly, it provides a little insight and encouragement to develop my relationship more and read.


Originally posted by marg6043
No church, not middle man needed, that is not so hard to understand, right?


Why is 2 hours a week to change your paradigm a bad thing?


Originally posted by marg6043
Yes I knew the bible like the palm of my hand, and I always was one of those that were questioning everything, the Sunday school teacher didn't like me very much.


This I don't get. If they're not there to answer questions, what are they freekin' there for? :shk: Sorry you had this negative experience, it's not supposed to be this way and a great majority of the churches I've visited aren't (Methodist, 2 Baptist, 6 Protestant, 2 Presbyterian, etc...). Being transient in my life made it hard to stick to a single church.


Originally posted by marg6043
People understand something here I am not an atheist, I believe in a higher being that controls all. I just don't believe on anything make by man in the name of God.


What do you think about God's son?



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