This is what socialized medicine looks like

a reply to: spacedoubt


Hey I think I'm pretty special

..

If we could somehow remove greed from this whole issue we would all be better off, but in the meantime we are all just digits on a screen and of no worth to these mobs.

I also just want to point out how the US and lots of its residents love to portray themselves as a "Christian" nation... and then things like this come up and they are NOT using their money to cure anyone's blindness and/or leprosy.

I bet if Jesus came up to you tomorrow, you'd be like..., "Jesus sounds like an immigrant name, bless your heart and gtfo."

I mean, Jesus would forgive you because conveniently, that's how the bible was written, but I bet you wouldn't be on the list to get into ANY of his sweet, heavenly parties.

I'm an atheist, so I don't care... ...but I'm just saying.

a reply to: Atsbhct

Rubbish

This idea it’s somehow moral or godly to force people to be charitable to others is absurd

If you voluntarily give to someone that is charitable

If you force the government to take from others and give to people that is not charitable

Before you judge others because they don’t endorse a huge government program that will force many to pay much more in taxes

Maybe you should spend all of your excess money on providing health care to the poor

a reply to: Grambler

I don't have to! The poor people here ALL READY HAVE HEALTH CARE.

a reply to: Grambler


Society was built on the back of other people, literally, if we didn't help each other society would never have thrived.

a reply to: Atsbhct

Well they are still poor

How godly of you; screw them you don’t have to help them, the government will take care of them.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Grambler


Society was built on the back of other people, literally, if we didn't help each other society would never have thrived.

We are not considered moral or righteous for voting to take others people wealth and give to those we chose

A truly moral person would give all they could without being forced by the government

Now we can talk about health care policy without pretending people are more morally superior or inferior based in their policy ideas

But I don’t by this biblical sense of moral superiority that user is showing

There is another option for those willing to try it like my lady. She flys to Costa Rica for her aches and pains and pays cash.

With so many expats living down there, they have excellent medical facilities and priced not to drive you into the poor house.

If you are type 2 and a heart attack waiting to happen, perhaps you might give it some thought.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

We want a better system, yes, but government is not a better system.

We are talking about the same people who run public schools and the postal service and the DMV. They're constantly making a train wreck of the VA and health care on Indian Reservations.

Lets basically take the same extremely large, overly powerful massive bureaucracy that has yet to produce an efficient and well-run service for the American people and put it in charge of your very life and death and basically give you no other options unless you're rich enough to escape its stranglehold.

It seems to me you're describing the same type of system we have now, but because it's government, you think it will run better for you.

a reply to: Grambler


Bringing religion into the conversation gets us no where, and religious folk are often only religious for selfish purposes so hes not wrong but regardless it has no real bearing on this conversation.

a reply to: ketsuko


I agree but government is what we have and its not go away anytime soon. The larger government becomes the more money it wastes and the more useless it becomes, I don't even know why people bother voting in the clowns they do, these clowns do not rub shoulders with the common man and have no idea what its like for the average person out there.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Grambler


Bringing religion into the conversation gets us no where, and religious folk are often only religious for selfish purposes so hes not wrong but regardless it has no real bearing on this conversation.

It is impossible to have a conversation about anything collectivist in nature without morality being brought into the discussion at some point by a collectivist who attempts to claim the moral high ground.

"See? Our system provides for everyone, so it's the moral one."

And that system also does what it does at the point of a gun by forcing everyone into it through heavy burdens of taxation and lack of choice, either through actual legal reduction of choice or the simple means of reducing the wealth of most to the point where they cannot afford any other option even if they want to.

Charity is choice. Morality is not something you compel. And true morality is not a simple vote.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

And that's a weak response.

I agree government would suck at this, but it's what we have so let it destroy everyone's health care because I don't want to actively remove money from my own pocket for it ...

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

And that's a weak response.

I agree government would suck at this, but it's what we have so let it destroy everyone's health care because I don't want to actively remove money from my own pocket for it ...

I disagree, we have a great health system. What makes you believe peoples health is being destroyed ?

a reply to: JAGStorm

At a VA hospital in Ohio the guy in the bed next to me died, after no nurse showed up in response to both of us pushing our little red buttons that said "HELP!".

The next morning they zipped him up inside a black body bag, and left him there.

A few hours later, I grabbed my stuff went out a back door and called my girlfriend to come get me. ( I Was there for a gum-socket infection, due to a VA dentist forgetting to use sterile equipment.)

a reply to: ketsuko

This frustrates me to no end

Of course I want everyone to have healthcare

Heck I want everyone to never get sick and need healthcare

But we also have to be realistic and have a system take won’t fail or make things worse I trying to achieve that

But the big government people want to pretend they are somehow more moral than me because they just ignore reevaluating and want to take everyone’s money and give everyone free everything

It’s like inner city communities

I want to end the war in poverty policies

For that I am told I hate the inner city poor

But it’s just the opposite, but think those massive government programs have hurt the inner city for the past 50 years

Just wanting the government to take money and throw it where you want does not make you morally superior

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

And that's a weak response.

I agree government would suck at this, but it's what we have so let it destroy everyone's health care because I don't want to actively remove money from my own pocket for it ...

I disagree, we have a great health system. What makes you believe peoples health is being destroyed ?

See Obamacare

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

And that's a weak response.

I agree government would suck at this, but it's what we have so let it destroy everyone's health care because I don't want to actively remove money from my own pocket for it ...

I disagree, we have a great health system. What makes you believe peoples health is being destroyed ?

See Obamacare

We agree then, the healthcare system in the U.S is a disgrace, on top of that its horrendous that vets are treated as disposable heroes.

Bernie said today that the extra $7,000 we will pay in taxes per year (per adult), will give us "free unlimited healthcare".

What if I pay that $7,000 for 10 years without getting very sick, and then die of a sudden heart attack.

Sacrificed $70,000 for nothing!

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

And that's a weak response.

I agree government would suck at this, but it's what we have so let it destroy everyone's health care because I don't want to actively remove money from my own pocket for it ...

I disagree, we have a great health system. What makes you believe peoples health is being destroyed ?

See Obamacare

We agree then, the healthcare system in the U.S is a disgrace, on top of that its horrendous that vets are treated as disposable heroes.

Nursing homes that get most of their revenue from the Federal/State government are death traps too.

If the Federal Government wants everyone to get top quality care in a "Universal Coverage" scenario, it had better be prepared to AT LEAST match what private plans pay now for healthcare. Cut the pay, and the quality of EVERY THING declines...people, equipment, cleanliness...everything.