This is what socialized medicine looks like

a reply to: VictorVonDoom
In my hypothesis, the winning vote would be for "make no change", so no following actions would be necessary.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

That doesn't sound "excellent" to me. I would rather pay for healthcare, then to die waiting. 250K people are waiting more than 1/2 a year!!!!
www.forbes.com...

and that is exactly how bad te NHS is....................... often run by total scam artists. I went in and told I would have to queue for an operation for nine months and was in pain, but could go private and be done in a few days which I did cost £1200 but I'd already paid for one through my taxes............... By the same doctor, he would make you wait nine months or do it straight away if you paid him! You couldn't make it up. Stick to the system you got over there all you'll do is pay for tramps and illegal tourist migrants wanting YOU to pay for it

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

That’s funny. Here in the us all the doctors have started this weird thing recently where you can only address one complaint per appointment. So if you have say, a cold, and a sprained wrist, AND your testicles hurt, they want you to make three different appointments on different days, and pay copay for each as well. What crap.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: JAGStorm

That doesn't sound "excellent" to me. I would rather pay for healthcare, then to die waiting. 250K people are waiting more than 1/2 a year!!!!
www.forbes.com...

and that is exactly how bad te NHS is....................... often run by total scam artists. I went in and told I would have to queue for an operation for nine months and was in pain, but could go private and be done in a few days which I did cost £1200 but I'd already paid for one through my taxes............... By the same doctor, he would make you wait nine months or do it straight away if you paid him! You couldn't make it up. Stick to the system you got over there all you'll do is pay for tramps and illegal tourist migrants wanting YOU to pay for it

UK spends about half what the US does on healthcare so unless you are a high rate tax payer your tax contributions to the NHS are less than the cost of insurance.

If you didn't have the money you would still get the operation regardless. Prioritisation is done by need, not ability to pay.

Private healthcare in UK costs less than than the US as it has to compete with the NHS.

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

That’s funny. Here in the us all the doctors have started this weird thing recently where you can only address one complaint per appointment. So if you have say, a cold, and a sprained wrist, AND your testicles hurt, they want you to make three different appointments on different days, and pay copay for each as well. What crap.

Yah, what the hell is that? I have to see my Dr. for my scripts on a regular basis, and if I even mention something else going on he gets all irritated and says "you're not here for that".

So, I'm there already, but will have to get another appt. and wait weeks for a pain or skin rash that will probably go away on its own by the time my appt comes around (if I'm lucky, that is).

Otherwise, I must suffer.

I am on the fence about this Medicare for all vs. private insurance....There really are good arguments for both.

I do however believe that a universal catastrophic policy would be best of both worlds.

a reply to: toolgal462

We elected a businessman for a reason. Let's let the big insurance firms and the Pharmaceutical industry make our medical decisions. It's the patriotic thing to do!! MAGA

And while we're at it...abolish all restrictions on American business. Especially concerning health. Gut the EPA and the CDC. worthless bunch of clowns!

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

That’s funny. Here in the us all the doctors have started this weird thing recently where you can only address one complaint per appointment. So if you have say, a cold, and a sprained wrist, AND your testicles hurt, they want you to make three different appointments on different days, and pay copay for each as well. What crap.

That is just amazingly coincidental............................. It's exactly the same here in the disunited Kingdom

Exactly that.............. One complaint per appointment. It's mental and a waste of time if you have to work every minute G-d sends just to get by, while the layabouts and cock suckers still get seen and pay for non of it

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: toolgal462

We elected a businessman for a reason. Let's let the big insurance firms and the Pharmaceutical industry make our medical decisions. It's the patriotic thing to do!! MAGA

And while we're at it...abolish all restrictions on American business. Especially concerning health. Gut the EPA, worthless bunch of clowns!

Careful, your TDS is showing. And I refuse to try and decipher that multi-faceted, nonsense you just posted.

If you want to talk about private health insurance vs. govt./single payer health insurance I'm game.

If you want to act like someone who has untreated TDS I don't talk crazy so I cannot help.

originally posted by: peck420
I will be very very blunt...

Every time an American says, "the Canadian system..." I already know they are parroting anecdotal and BS talking points.

Now....can any one do even the bare minimum of research and tell me why?

Not really, I've had conversations with Canadian friends directly. They joke that Canada's medical system is the best in the world as long as you don't have to use it. My friends preferred to us the doctors in the US.

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ketsuko

No, most Americans do when they realize that The cost of a tax to create a single payer healthcare system, while seeming astronomical, are fractional when compared to what we are all already paying for our profit based system. So let’s see. Would the majority of Americans prefer to pay astronomical prices for worse outcomes with the current plan where most of us still have to ration our care because it’s a cost burden even when fully insured, and still is the greatest cause of bankruptcies? Or would they rather pay almost half the rate, for doctors they can see whenever they want, and never have to stress that they’ll lose everything if they have the inevitable single catastrophic accident or illness? It’s not rocket science and all the industry funded propaganda in the world isn’t changing that.

I get the impression that most Americans cannot bear knowing that some of their tax money might be used to help people that have nothing.

They actually prefer to pay way over the odds for healthcare BECAUSE it benefits just them and no-one else.

It's quite amusing to me that the mere suggestion of any type of taxpayer-funded assistance for poor folk sends many Americans on ATS into an almost-fatal anaphylactic shock lol.

You may not realize this but there is already tax payer provided healthcare for both the poor and elderly in the US.
Medicare/Medicaid
We are having a completely different discussion about national health care.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Sure you make some good points But.................

1 Why should I pay for the care of people who have made a 'career' out being a layabout and working the 'benefits ' system? Not knocking genuine ill but there's millions thieving from my taxes and getting effective treatment off the sweat of my back

2 Why should every holidaymaker from the Third World get to fly here and again get free treatment off the sweat of my back

3 Why should I pay more tax if I wok 84 hours a week, sure make a few quid but it's only just above minimum wage then a 40 hour a week person pays much less contributions even though we are on the same hourly rate?

I just want my FAIR SHARE of my earnings like the Yanks get instead of paying for lazy layabouts

a reply to: doobydoll

I prefer proper doctors, NHS doctors, the type that enter the profession to fulfil their need to help others even if there's no superb riches in it for them. They get a much better reward than mere money. And may God bless every one of them for all their self-less, wonderful work.

Apparently the NHS doctors are leaving in droves, Money talks smart doctors walk (to other countries that is)

These shortages could explode in the years to come. In 2018, the Royal College of General Practitioners found that more than 750 practices could close within the next five years, largely because heavy workloads are pushing older doctors to retire early. The NHS recently announced that, in a desperate attempt to shore up its doctor workforce, it would pay British general practitioners working abroad more than $24,000 in "relocation support" to come back to the country. The Service is also trying to encourage doctors to come out of retirement.

www.forbes.com...

Okay, I have a few first hand accounts to tell you about.

I worked for many years with the elderly in a health related position. First of all, the non-profit I worked for wasn't interested in patients who had private insurance, they were interested in those who were on Medicare or Medicaid. More money in it, believe it or not.

But I digress. My supervisor was invited by the health system of Japan to visit and witness their health care system. Which incidentally is Govt. run/single payer. I had always heard that Japan had one of the BEST nationalized health care systems in the world (by Lefties).

When she returned from her trip I asked, "So, is there HC system as wonderful as everyone says it is?" I was shocked with the response.

Here's what she said in a nutshell: If you are young, of child bearing age and healthy, then it's great. If you are past child bearing age, have a disability or are a senior FORGET ABOUT IT.

There is NOTHING for you other than ugly institutions and neglect if you aren't able to bring more future workers into the world.

I can go into more detail if anyone likes. I also have a first hand acct. about the "wonderful" nationalized health care in Sweden if anyone is interested.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ketsuko

No, most Americans do when they realize that The cost of a tax to create a single payer healthcare system, while seeming astronomical, are fractional when compared to what we are all already paying for our profit based system. So let’s see. Would the majority of Americans prefer to pay astronomical prices for worse outcomes with the current plan where most of us still have to ration our care because it’s a cost burden even when fully insured, and still is the greatest cause of bankruptcies? Or would they rather pay almost half the rate, for doctors they can see whenever they want, and never have to stress that they’ll lose everything if they have the inevitable single catastrophic accident or illness? It’s not rocket science and all the industry funded propaganda in the world isn’t changing that.

I get the impression that most Americans cannot bear knowing that some of their tax money might be used to help people that have nothing.

They actually prefer to pay way over the odds for healthcare BECAUSE it benefits just them and no-one else.

It's quite amusing to me that the mere suggestion of any type of taxpayer-funded assistance for poor folk sends many Americans on ATS into an almost-fatal anaphylactic shock lol.

You may not realize this but there is already tax payer provided healthcare for both the poor and elderly in the US.
Medicare/Medicaid
We are having a completely different discussion about national health care.

You are absolutely correct. I mentioned I worked in a health related field for years. With the low income/at risk seniors.
There were endless programs/entitlements and FREE care available to them.

If anyone wasn't covered it was simply because they were too lazy to apply for Medicaid or look into the myriad of low cost and free healthcare that is out there.

This is in Mass, I don't pretend that this is the case in other states though.

All these anecdotes are fun. I’ve been working in hospitals for over 20 years now too. I could tell you plenty horror stories of our us hospitals. Even among the best. And forget any mental health problems. If you’re a psyche patient in the us you are out of luck. Our psych facilities are there to do two things. Extract as much money as possible, and sell drugs. There is absolutely no actual therapy or process work going on. And the Geri psyche units are a travesty of abuse, neglect, etc.

And I’ve seen it all happen in the hospitals. Staff raping patients, staff killing or beating up patients. Staff stealing from patients. Not anecdotal, theses are all things I’ve seen directly or have happened to people I’ve been working directly with personally.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: ScepticScot

Sure you make some good points But.................

1 Why should I pay for the care of people who have made a 'career' out being a layabout and working the 'benefits

' system? Not knocking genuine ill but there's millions thieving from my taxes and getting effective treatment off the sweat of my back

2 Why should every holidaymaker from the Third World get to fly here and again get free treatment off the sweat of my back

3 Why should I pay more tax if I wok 84 hours a week, sure make a few quid but it's only just above minimum wage then a 40 hour a week person pays much less contributions even though we are on the same hourly rate?

I just want my FAIR SHARE of my earnings like the Yanks get instead of paying for lazy layabouts

1. No there really isn't millions thieving your taxes.

2'. Health tourism is a tiny % of NHS budget. Most cases of people from.a brief getting treatment are either genuine emergencies or countries we have reciprocal agreements with.

3. Personally I to we get much better value for our tax than the US does ( NHS in particular).

a reply to: ScepticScot

Sure................... But why should I work my guts out and pay for layabouts to get their care? It's a Commie state and getting worse At least the Yanks live in a fair state where you get what you work for. They got it right

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ketsuko

No, most Americans do when they realize that The cost of a tax to create a single payer healthcare system, while seeming astronomical, are fractional when compared to what we are all already paying for our profit based system. So let’s see. Would the majority of Americans prefer to pay astronomical prices for worse outcomes with the current plan where most of us still have to ration our care because it’s a cost burden even when fully insured, and still is the greatest cause of bankruptcies? Or would they rather pay almost half the rate, for doctors they can see whenever they want, and never have to stress that they’ll lose everything if they have the inevitable single catastrophic accident or illness? It’s not rocket science and all the industry funded propaganda in the world isn’t changing that.

I get the impression that most Americans cannot bear knowing that some of their tax money might be used to help people that have nothing.

They actually prefer to pay way over the odds for healthcare BECAUSE it benefits just them and no-one else.

It's quite amusing to me that the mere suggestion of any type of taxpayer-funded assistance for poor folk sends many Americans on ATS into an almost-fatal anaphylactic shock lol.

You may not realize this but there is already tax payer provided healthcare for both the poor and elderly in the US.
Medicare/Medicaid

Ouchy lol what a snooty britches you are lol.

Those that pay for that can't use it though. You have to pay again if you need hospital/doc? Or am I mistaken? Apologies if so.

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ketsuko

No, most Americans do when they realize that The cost of a tax to create a single payer healthcare system, while seeming astronomical, are fractional when compared to what we are all already paying for our profit based system. So let’s see. Would the majority of Americans prefer to pay astronomical prices for worse outcomes with the current plan where most of us still have to ration our care because it’s a cost burden even when fully insured, and still is the greatest cause of bankruptcies? Or would they rather pay almost half the rate, for doctors they can see whenever they want, and never have to stress that they’ll lose everything if they have the inevitable single catastrophic accident or illness? It’s not rocket science and all the industry funded propaganda in the world isn’t changing that.

I get the impression that most Americans cannot bear knowing that some of their tax money might be used to help people that have nothing.

They actually prefer to pay way over the odds for healthcare BECAUSE it benefits just them and no-one else.

It's quite amusing to me that the mere suggestion of any type of taxpayer-funded assistance for poor folk sends many Americans on ATS into an almost-fatal anaphylactic shock lol.

You may not realize this but there is already tax payer provided healthcare for both the poor and elderly in the US.
Medicare/Medicaid

Ouchy lol what a snooty britches you are lol.

Those that pay for that can't use it though. You have to pay again if you need hospital/doc? Or am I mistaken? Apologies if so.

Not sure how providing information is snooty britches but I get sometimes things get lost in translation.

Yes, if you are very poor, you still get health care in this country, same if you are old.
Yes, all of our taxes pay for it. It is very complicated and sometimes it pays all some plans pay parts of some.
I honestly don't know all the details because I have never used either. Yes I pay taxes and still pay for private healthcare.

www.medicaid.gov...
www.ssa.gov...

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ketsuko

No, most Americans do when they realize that The cost of a tax to create a single payer healthcare system, while seeming astronomical, are fractional when compared to what we are all already paying for our profit based system. So let’s see. Would the majority of Americans prefer to pay astronomical prices for worse outcomes with the current plan where most of us still have to ration our care because it’s a cost burden even when fully insured, and still is the greatest cause of bankruptcies? Or would they rather pay almost half the rate, for doctors they can see whenever they want, and never have to stress that they’ll lose everything if they have the inevitable single catastrophic accident or illness? It’s not rocket science and all the industry funded propaganda in the world isn’t changing that.

I get the impression that most Americans cannot bear knowing that some of their tax money might be used to help people that have nothing.

They actually prefer to pay way over the odds for healthcare BECAUSE it benefits just them and no-one else.

It's quite amusing to me that the mere suggestion of any type of taxpayer-funded assistance for poor folk sends many Americans on ATS into an almost-fatal anaphylactic shock lol.

You may not realize this but there is already tax payer provided healthcare for both the poor and elderly in the US.
Medicare/Medicaid

Ouchy lol what a snooty britches you are lol.

Those that pay for that can't use it though. You have to pay again if you need hospital/doc? Or am I mistaken? Apologies if so.

About right. I pay 600/month for me, wife, kids. Then I pretty much don’t go because I can’t afford it. It’s usually $50 a pop for each visit, so the wife and kids go, but I usually pass. Then, if I need anything real there’s usually large uncovered expenses. I wanted to get a sleep study, and it would have been $600 I would still owe, not covered by my ins. If I want more lab work there’s usually extra fees, often a few hundred.